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The Wolf Trap
American Hunter Magazine (NRA National Rifle Association member publication ^ | January 2004 | By Chuck Adams

Posted on 02/07/2004 10:59:48 AM PST by Delphinium

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To: Delphinium
I don't understand how the llama was killed, I was assured by one of our most renown animal experts of the FReepers on a previous thread, that all you had to do to protect your other animals is get a llama. Do the llamas actually protect the other animals by beating up on the wolves or are the other animals given a chance to beat feet because the wolves eat the llamas first. I need to know this because this is really important.
21 posted on 02/07/2004 3:54:15 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: U S Army EOD
I know for a fact that llamas are used to protect sheep/livestock from coyotes. Can't tell you how they fare against wolves...
22 posted on 02/07/2004 4:17:13 PM PST by dmzTahoe (Go Zags!!!...#8 and still rising.)
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To: JackRyanCIA; ZULU; OldPossum
FYI
23 posted on 02/07/2004 4:19:10 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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To: Sunsong
""Kyran Kunkel, scientific researcher..."

Oh, this governmant hack doesn't have an agenda, does he? Maybe it's called justifying his existence. Did he say how long his theory works? months, years, decades, a generation ot two?

Meanwhile, those that have to face the consequences of government intervention will deal with the problem. Government does a piss poor job when it tries to play God and interfear with nature, survival of the fittest and man's destiny.

24 posted on 02/07/2004 4:24:02 PM PST by dmzTahoe (Go Zags!!!...#8 and still rising.)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: dmzTahoe
"Kyran Kunkel, scientific researcher for the Turner Endangered Species Fund, confirms the bleak prospects for adding gray wolves to the wildlife mix. Kunkel’s studies show that after reintroduction of wolves, deer and elk numbers decline and so does hunter success. Cougars starve, wolves kill each other, and wolf reproduction rates go down. Deer and elk populations grow slowly, wolf numbers increase, and the whole vicious cycle repeats itself"

You - "Oh, this governmant hack doesn't have an agenda, does he?"

"Kyran Kunkel, scientific researcher for the Turner Endangered Species Fund," Kyran Kunkel does not work for the government. What you are saying is not true.

"Meanwhile, those that have to face the consequences of government intervention will deal with the problem. Government does a piss poor job when it tries to play God and interfear with nature, survival of the fittest and man's destiny."

So are you saying that you will break the law? Do you feel that you are above the law? Are you saying that you will do whatever you please because you don't like a decision that the feds made?

It looks to me like the far right extremists just want to be the ones playing God and deciding which species exist and which don't. I thought you said that Nature wouldn't balance things out. Are you now changing your mind and saying that Nature, if left to Her own devices *would* balance things out? :-)

26 posted on 02/07/2004 4:41:22 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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To: Sunsong
In case you forget, man is part of nature, and has the right of survival far more than any other species. It is man who will take care of this problem, a needless one if government had let nature (progress and man) take it's course.

Progress and the fulfillment of man's destiny, two things that you obviously are against. So, turn off your computer, turn off your electricity, light your candles, grow your own food (because I'm certain you're a vegan), build your own house (if you can bear to cut down some poor trees), travel everywhere via horse/buggy, take no medication, and return to the simple life you, and Al Gore, yearn for, because you are right, capitalism and corporate greed are evil and ruining the world.

Oh, yeah, listen for that wolf howling in the night...and the blast of the gunshot that renders it's pelt to a place in front of a fireplace.

No need to further discuss this with you, as previous posts indicate your anti-progress/civilization stance and your insistence to always get the last word.
Goodbye!
27 posted on 02/07/2004 5:43:45 PM PST by dmzTahoe (Go Zags!!!...#8 and still rising.)
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To: dmzTahoe
You didn't answer these questions:

So are you saying that you will break the law? Do you feel that you are above the law? Are you saying that you will do whatever you please because you don't like a decision that the feds made?

Nor did you say whether you are now changing your mind about Nature. You have said that Nature cannot balance things that Nature *can* balance things. Which is it?

Nor have you apologized for saying that the author of the quote was not a government hack.

Nothing that you have said about me is true. Does it bother you at all to be so dishonest? Are you not only above the law but also above morality and personal character. I am probably far more supportive of progress than you are. But I do not define progress as having no wolves or bears or cougars or whales or dolphins or whatever else you want to exterminate. As to man's destiny. I'm sure that we do not agree about that. I believe that man creates his own destiny. What do you believe?

You wrote a post to me saying that you could hardly wait to hear my reaction to this thread. It was you, not me, that started this. But I assume that you are dropping out because you have lost the argument and cannot even decide whether you think Nature will or will not balance things out :-)

I have no problem with people shooting wolves that come onto their property. But don't you think that people should eat what they kill? I have a real problem with the extreme right wingers who think that they can kill anything they don't like -- just because they don't like it.

28 posted on 02/07/2004 6:00:57 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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To: Sunsong
I have no problem with people shooting wolves that come on their property.



Keep your stories straight, you told me I had not right to protect my dogs and cats from coyotes that come on my property. You said I should lock up the dogs and cats.
29 posted on 02/07/2004 7:30:38 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: JackRyanCIA
No one protected the deer and elk back then, that is why there are so many more here now than there was then.
30 posted on 02/07/2004 7:32:09 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: U S Army EOD
"Keep your stories straight, you told me I had not right to protect my dogs and cats from coyotes that come on my property. You said I should lock up the dogs and cats."

That's not true. I have consistently said that I have no problem with people shooting wolves that come onto their property. You said that you let your dogs and cats roam anywhere they want because you want them to be free. I told you that I would not do that if I lived in the woods and my cats and dogs lives would be at risk. I never told you, you should "lock up your dogs and cats". You are lying.

31 posted on 02/07/2004 7:53:22 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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To: Sunsong
If you don't let them roam you have to lock them up. You can't have it both ways. You are confused as usual.
32 posted on 02/07/2004 8:13:35 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: Sunsong
The woods as far as the cats and dogs go belong to me. How do I keep them out of them unless I put them in a pen.

By the way, why did your wolf dog murder the poor little bird when it was only a few months old? Why were you proud of it and bragged about it on one of your post? You accused my cats of being sadistic killers of small animals. What gives your wolf dog the right to maime and murder while my cats are staring into the woods behind fences? You can't have it both ways. How can you call me a lair when you make statements like that?
33 posted on 02/07/2004 8:19:31 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: dmzTahoe
Apparently they are eaten.
34 posted on 02/07/2004 8:22:05 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: dmzTahoe
One way I heard of is using poison bait.
35 posted on 02/07/2004 8:45:22 PM PST by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
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To: U S Army EOD
"If you don't let them roam you have to lock them up. You can't have it both ways. You are confused as usual."

That's not true. Does it bother you at all to make so many false statements? You are thinking in a very black and white kind of way. There are more than two choices. There are a range of things that could be done that come between the one extreme of letting your pets roam wherever they want and the other extreme of locking them up.

36 posted on 02/07/2004 9:05:34 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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To: Delphinium
One thing which ought to be obvious to everybody is that when you get this yoyo-ing of deer and elk populations which the article mentions you lose genetic diversity since the elk herds will be rebuilding from a small number of individuals with each upward swing of the yoyo.

Our ancestors were not stupid people. They killed wolves out of the lower forty-eight for real reasons.

37 posted on 02/07/2004 9:07:54 PM PST by greenwolf
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To: Sunsong
So how do I stop them from roaming on my land if I don't contain them? You are still confused. Why should I have the coyotes dictate to me where my pets can go?

What about the bird killing wolf dog of yours by the way? That bird probably had a family. How can you condem my cats when your wolf is out killing things?
38 posted on 02/07/2004 9:13:15 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: U S Army EOD
"By the way, why did your wolf dog murder the poor little bird when it was only a few months old? Why were you proud of it and bragged about it on one of your post? You accused my cats of being sadistic killers of small animals. What gives your wolf dog the right to maime and murder while my cats are staring into the woods behind fences? You can't have it both ways. How can you call me a lair when you make statements like that?"

You are lying again. You lied when you said that I told you that you should lock up your pets. And you are lying here. My wolf-dog did not kill the bird. I got it before he killed it. The bird lost its tail feathers. I was impressed that a 3 1/2 month old pup could catch a bird. I don't know how he did it even. Wolves are predators, U S Army EOD. They hunt and kill. I am not bothered by that. My wolf dog had incredible hunting instincts, but I did not want him to kill animals.

"You accused my cats of being sadistic killers of small animals."

That is not true. I said that cats are cruel in the way that they treat their prey. You chose to take it personally. I don't know why you chose to take it that way. Why did you? Cats are mean. That's a fact. So are wolves. So are a lot of humans.

39 posted on 02/07/2004 9:15:56 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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To: U S Army EOD
"So how do I stop them from roaming on my land if I don't contain them? You are still confused. Why should I have the coyotes dictate to me where my pets can go?"

Are you in a power struggle with coyotes? with Nature? Can you think of any other way to deal with the situation than by either letting your pets roam free and being at risk of getting killed or locking them up?

40 posted on 02/07/2004 9:19:37 PM PST by Sunsong (Free Republic is a conservative, American site -- try to keep that in mind...)
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