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Kennewick Man Speaks
Seattle Times ^ | 2-7-2004

Posted on 02/07/2004 12:10:42 PM PST by blam

Kennewick Man speaks

Kennewick Man has held onto his secrets for more than 9,000 years and now, finally, scientists will get a chance to be his voice.

This week, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals pushed the truths resting within the bones at the Burke Museum closer to the light with its decision that scientists can study them. The appeals court affirmed a lower-court decision that the Interior Department erred in its decision to give the bones to the Native American tribes that claim them as those of an ancestor. The government might appeal to the Supreme Court.

But the 9th Circuit's ruling explicitly concludes there is no evidence of a genetic or cultural link between Kennewick Man and the modern-day tribes. Former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt ruled the remains found on federal property should be given to the tribes under the federal repatriation law because the bones predated Columbus' 1492 landing in North America. The tribes, who want to bury the remains, argued Kennewick Man was their ancestor because their oral histories contained no migration stories.

But eight prominent scientists sued for the right to study Kennewick Man and shed light on the peopling of the Americas. Limited studies concluded the remains more closely resemble modern-day people in Polynesia or the Ainu of Japan than they do Native Americans. Experts say they also resemble those of other ancient bones found elsewhere in the Americas far from the Columbia River Basin and, some believe, a set of 25,000-year-old bones in China.

The court's rejection of the pre-Columbian rule has implications for the study of other ancient remains, including those of Pan Era Woman, a set of 12,000-year-old remains found on federal property in Texas. Kennewick Man is holding the door open so other ancient remains aren't buried with their secrets.

The Native American Graves and Repatriation Act is a good law designed to return remains and artifacts to tribes with which actual connections can be established. But as science suggested and a federal judge and appeals court concluded — Kennewick Man is in a different category.

He belongs to all of us.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: anthropology; archaeology; crevolist; economic; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; kennewick; kennewickman; man; speaks
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Excellent, excellent decision.
1 posted on 02/07/2004 12:10:42 PM PST by blam
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To: farmfriend; shamusotoole
Pan Era Woman
2 posted on 02/07/2004 12:12:25 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Skeletal Remains May Be 11,000 Years Old (Lake Jackson, Texas)
3 posted on 02/07/2004 12:15:25 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
I wonder if we'll be able to dig up Buhl Woman again.
4 posted on 02/07/2004 12:17:09 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Finally! Now, at last, we'll learn more about Kennewick Man! :-)
5 posted on 02/07/2004 12:17:53 PM PST by nopardons
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To: blam
wonderful news!
6 posted on 02/07/2004 12:22:30 PM PST by ruoflaw
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To: blam
Hopefully this is the last word and phony baloney Indian claims have been smacked down for good.
7 posted on 02/07/2004 12:24:47 PM PST by dennisw
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To: blam
How do these dates of 12000 years and 9000 years get arrived at?
Carbon dating is a fraud as is alot of purported "scientific facts".
Plus alot of unexplained skeletal remains are never studied
or brought to attention because they dont fit with the
"party line" of modern archeologists.
8 posted on 02/07/2004 12:28:15 PM PST by claptrap
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To: blam
" Babbitt ruled the remains found on federal property should be given to the tribes"...

whose casinos are a flush source of political contributions and other graft.

9 posted on 02/07/2004 12:28:44 PM PST by John Beresford Tipton
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To: nopardons
We may have been able to learn even more if the Corps of Engineer's hadn't bulldozed 20 tons of rock on the spot where he was found.

They did this so fast that no one had time to protest or even knew that it was going to happen.

10 posted on 02/07/2004 12:36:40 PM PST by husky ed (FOX NEWS ALERT "Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead" THIS HAS BEEN A FOX NEWS ALERT)
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To: claptrap
"Plus alot of unexplained skeletal remains are never studied or brought to attention because they dont fit with the "party line" of modern archeologists."

Yup. Only a few people know about those...and, those of us who know, have been instructed not to tell you. There are weekly meeting in the dead of night devising ways to keep this all secret. Now, don't expect to hear anymore about this... I may be in trouble with 'the committee' already.

11 posted on 02/07/2004 12:56:05 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Goes to show that creationists and multiculturalists make not-so strange bedfellows
12 posted on 02/07/2004 12:58:00 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: blam; RightWingAtheist
Limited studies concluded the remains more closely resemble modern-day people in Polynesia or the Ainu of Japan than they do Native Americans. Experts say they also resemble those of other ancient bones found elsewhere in the Americas far from the Columbia River Basin and, some believe, a set of 25,000-year-old bones in China.

This is interesting, Blam. If these limited studies pan out, those old ones really got around.

Goes to show that creationists and multiculturalists make not-so strange bedfellows

Shows what you don't know. If you ever want to see a world-class fight, try sticking a creationist in bed with multiculturalists.

13 posted on 02/07/2004 1:05:55 PM PST by xJones
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To: blam
It's good to see honest scientific research can proceed without being impeded by groups trying to hold on to political power. It's fine to return remains that are actually "native american" to the appropriate tribes. It is immoral for those tribes to try to ban legitimate inquiry that might expose other, older inhabitants that would "dethrone" the claims of "native americans".

It is also annoying that any land in the United States could be designated "federal land". The Constitution puts specific limits on what the federal government can use. The politicians are using the Constitution as toilet paper when they grab land and designate it "federal". It is even more egregious when the federal government cedes control of U.S. land to foreign powers such as the United Nations.

14 posted on 02/07/2004 1:13:48 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: xJones
Actually, it shows how little you know, or are able to discern. The attempt to squelch science-specifically, the study of human origins-in the name of Native superstions is no different than the continuing efforts of creationists to do the same in the name of their own personal myths. This should be evident to any reasonable person.
15 posted on 02/07/2004 1:17:32 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: PatrickHenry
Ready the troops
16 posted on 02/07/2004 1:18:13 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; A.J.Armitage; abner; adam_az; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

17 posted on 02/07/2004 1:22:26 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: blam
After all, Kennewick Man was found with a Democratic Party membership card in his bag...
18 posted on 02/07/2004 1:31:47 PM PST by pabianice
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To: RightWingAtheist
Actually, it shows how little you know, or are able to discern. The attempt to squelch science-specifically, the study of human origins-in the name of Native superstions is no different than the continuing efforts of creationists to do the same in the name of their own personal myths. This should be evident to any reasonable person.

In addition to having no sense of humor, you're so....pompous. If there is a hell, bores will surely be on the lowest ring.

BTW, watch out, the Unitarians may claim you. And worse yet, two of your words bombed on spell-check.;)

19 posted on 02/07/2004 1:36:13 PM PST by xJones
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To: husky ed
Yes, I remember that; it was an utter disgrace!
20 posted on 02/07/2004 1:37:29 PM PST by nopardons
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To: blam
For the record: Kennewick Man is a Viking, and all of North America is a part of Greater Vinland. Now all of you who don't belong get the hell out.
21 posted on 02/07/2004 1:54:21 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along)
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To: blam
BTTT
22 posted on 02/07/2004 2:05:48 PM PST by carpio
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To: blam
Darwin central calling, cleanup needed. Top ultra secrets disclosed by one of our agents. Terminate with extreme prejudice, and get the spin team to work, right after they're rebury those embarrasing fossils of a velociraptor attached to a dog-leash.
23 posted on 02/07/2004 2:09:38 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: blam
My God, I agree with the 9th circuit. Let me right this down on the calendar.
I wondered whatever happened to this skull. I figured they probably 'lost' it by now.
All the casinos belong to us.
(I'm sure someone already made that joke)
24 posted on 02/07/2004 2:24:13 PM PST by sfRummygirl (THANK YOU, Michael Savage.)
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To: blam
'Bout a hunert years ago... OK I'll be honest... about fifty years ago, as a pre-adolescent, I read a book called They All Discovered America. It was written for laymen, indeed, even for young readers. It listed, and presented arguments for the existence of numerous pre-Columbian discoverers of America. Some were listed by name, others merely by evidence of the presence of artifacts of certain ethnicity and certain age somewhere in the Americas. Does anyone know of such a book (easy reading) containing the latest discoveries and theories?
25 posted on 02/07/2004 3:01:34 PM PST by night reader
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To: night reader
Another Freeper recommended the book Columbus Was Last, by Patrick Huyghe (er, spelling maybe off, too lazy to Google). It was a fascinating read!
26 posted on 02/07/2004 3:12:08 PM PST by NukeMan
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To: blam
...ruling explicitly concludes there is no evidence of a genetic or cultural link between Kennewick Man and the modern-day tribes.

I can't say I'm too enthused about any court, especially this one, determining what is scientifically correct.

27 posted on 02/07/2004 3:47:12 PM PST by curmudgeonII (Time wounds all heels.)
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To: curmudgeonII
It's true, though. Courts decide on the basis of scientific evidence all the time, and this guy bears no relation to any recent tribes. Look at the pictures. It's clear. Because of the way the law was written, any remains found on their ancestral lands are theirs, but science has trumped badly written law.
28 posted on 02/07/2004 3:51:58 PM PST by firebrand
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To: xJones
I forgot to add Mr. Smiley :-(

Sorry; I was trying to "echo" your initial reply, but I didn't word your first sentence correctly.

29 posted on 02/07/2004 3:54:12 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: *crevo_list; VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Physicist; LogicWings; ...
PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]
30 posted on 02/07/2004 4:03:24 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Theory: a comprehensible, falsifiable, cause-and-effect explanation of verifiable facts.)
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To: blam
This decision comes from the 9th Circuit. It bothers me to celebrate anything those guys do, but I guess every now and then they get it right.
31 posted on 02/07/2004 4:04:34 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Theory: a comprehensible, falsifiable, cause-and-effect explanation of verifiable facts.)
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To: RightWingAtheist
Sorry; I was trying to "echo" your initial reply, but I didn't word your first sentence correctly.

You didn't word any sentence of mine correctly at all, but you won't understand. (;^=(

32 posted on 02/07/2004 4:08:38 PM PST by xJones
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To: blam
Excellent, excellent decision.

From the 9th Circuit Court?

Just proves that even a blind squirrel will find a nut every once in a while.

33 posted on 02/07/2004 4:12:56 PM PST by Polybius
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To: Rodney King
I have a Norwegian great-grandfather, so am I in?

Read the excellent (and hard to get) book by Barry Fell called Bronze Age America, if you can get it, as to the finding of proven Scandinavian inscriptions from BC 1700 in Ontario, Canada... where they were routinely trading for copper and possibly other metals.

The Canadian government actually incised off the rock, found in the Fifties, the most characteristically Scandinavian inscriptions and pictographs. The current
displays and visitors center at the site attributes everything to "the tribes," which IS progress. Are Norwegians a "tribe?" Most of them that I have asked say yes, they ARE a tribe.
34 posted on 02/07/2004 4:17:31 PM PST by Chris Talk
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To: PatrickHenry

Kennenwick Man

Ainu.

Hmmm...if this guy lost 30 pounds and had his head shaved, he'd be pretty close.

35 posted on 02/07/2004 4:18:28 PM PST by Pharmboy (History's greatest agent for freedom: The US Armed Forces)
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To: PatrickHenry
It is just a part of their ongoing jihad against religion, ANY religion!
36 posted on 02/07/2004 4:19:06 PM PST by Chris Talk
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To: night reader
Start with anything by Barry Fell. The Bolton book you mention remains very good, he was far ahead of his time.
37 posted on 02/07/2004 4:20:49 PM PST by Chris Talk
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To: Chris Talk
d-d Internet gremlins. BOLAND, not Bolton.
38 posted on 02/07/2004 4:22:57 PM PST by Chris Talk
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To: blam

This could have a great impact on the Indian claim to Grand Island where I live..

39 posted on 02/07/2004 4:26:47 PM PST by The Mayor (Be steadfast, immovable, . . . knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.)
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To: night reader
" Does anyone know of such a book (easy reading) containing the latest discoveries and theories?"

I found America BC by Dr Barry Fell intriguing. (Maybe a little dated though, 1986)

(Check the bookmarks on my profile page for some of the most recent discoveries)

40 posted on 02/07/2004 4:28:20 PM PST by blam
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To: NukeMan; night reader
Read 1421 by Gavin Menzies.
41 posted on 02/07/2004 4:34:52 PM PST by ThanhPhero (Ong lam hanh huong di La Vang)
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To: Chris Talk
The Samurai And The Ainu

Kennewick Man is believed to be related to the Ainu of Japan.

42 posted on 02/07/2004 4:37:27 PM PST by blam
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To: claptrap
Carbon dating is a fraud

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

Prove that baloney and win a Nobel prize!

43 posted on 02/07/2004 4:38:53 PM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Chris Talk
Are you familiar with the work of Gloria Farley? If you like Barry Fell, you'll like her too.
44 posted on 02/07/2004 4:40:53 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
I have read some of that. The Bering Strait hypothesis is so politically correct, so unassailable to scientists, that they simply REFUSE to see that the affinities are across the Atlantic, not the Pacific. Yes, ...Kennewick Man is somewhat similar to an Ainu, if by that you mean that he is strongly Caucasoid!

OTOH, he is probably more strongly similar to Jacques Chirac, since he is probably a descendant of Solutrean immigration from France, google for Cactus-Hill Virginia story.
45 posted on 02/07/2004 4:41:51 PM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will one day be.)
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To: blam
Yeah, I have her book, In Plain Sight. Also I have the Huyghe and Boland books. Also the Mertz book, Pale Ink.
And a few thousand others.
46 posted on 02/07/2004 4:42:45 PM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will one day be.)
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To: RightWingAtheist
sheeeeesh... you're not without religion - you have a little g god: man
47 posted on 02/07/2004 4:42:57 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: night reader
Oh, I know a good one for you. A little paperback packed with goodies, called Celtic Discoveries in New England. Cover is green, stone chambers in USA just like in Europe.

A similar book about Quetzalcoatl in pink cover. Not by same author. Says he was an Icelandic priest IIRC.
48 posted on 02/07/2004 4:46:28 PM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will one day be.)
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To: Chris Talk
Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)
49 posted on 02/07/2004 4:47:59 PM PST by blam
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To: Chris Talk
"since he is probably a descendant of Solutrean immigration from France, google for Cactus-Hill Virginia story."

The below linked thread his a nice update to this subject.

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)

50 posted on 02/07/2004 4:55:30 PM PST by blam
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