Roman Catholic church raises some eyebrows by warning politicians

St. Louis Post-Dispatch. ^ | 2/7/044 | Phillip O'Connor

[Valin]

For a long time in American politics, many voters believed that the election of a Catholic president would lead the country under the sway of the pope on state matters, according to presidential historians. The election of John F. Kennedy buried those perceptions.

[4integrity]

...it's quite another thing to deny the means of grace because of a political postion....

....he would be denied the means of grace because he is going against the teachings of the Church and is not remorseful.

I would like to see more Catholic Churches remind their congregations that abortion is against the Church's teachings and, thus, Catholics should consider this when electing Officials. Something to think about...if we end up with only liberals on the Supreme Court, it will probably be against the law to talk about pro-life issues since that may offend someone ...just like the word 'Christmas' offends.

[onyx]

Thanks valin.

*Catholic ping please*


backhoe: for you files

[Ronin]

Some Catholic is going to have to help me with the logic here, but wouldn't giving Communion to any person who is manifestly not in keeping with Church teaching be a sin on the part of the Priest giving the Communion?

If so, wouldn't that sin, at that very moment, somehow contaminate the Communion? Not only for the Priest and the person receiving it, but for any other persons receiving Communion after him or her?

I take it as given that a Priest who is not in a state of Grace cannot conduct Mass or perform other sacred rituals.

By this logic, and I admit I am not a Catholic so I have no idea, wouldn't any politican who asks a Priest to give him Communion when he is not in the condition to receive it, be asking the Priest to commit a sin?

Sounds like a mighty arrogant thing for a politician to do, if you ask me.

[WKB]

Hey over here.
A Southern Baptist and I agree with the Catholics on this one

There is too much politics in the Church and
not enough Church in politics.
IMHOM

[Chong]

"Because if you're receiving Holy Communion in a state of grave sin, you're committing another sin," he said.

You have to be perfect to receive Holy Communion and that receiving it in a state of sin is committing another sin? They say that being pro-choice is a GRAVE sin, but sin is sin in God's eyes, big or small. According to the above logic, the line at the Communion would be non-existent in my church.

Catholics, I am not attacking you, just having a hard time understanding your logic.

[lnbjohnson]

Just for the fun of it... Here is a short list of Catholic teaching. See how many of you are real Catholics. If your are not a real Catholic, you should leave the church That way we won't have a priest shortage. Do you ever engaged in sex without the goal of creating children? Do you favor the legal sale of birth control devices? Ever been divorced? (Any friends or family that have divorced?--it is up to you to tell them that they are no longer welcome.) Do you favor Latin mass, or favor undoing any of the other Vatican II changes?—you can not be a real Catholic and oppose the pope on this. Do you support the Iraq war? The pope has ruled this to be an unjust war. You can not believe that the pope is right on some issues and wrong on other issues and be a real Catholic. Same goes for not supporting all the bishops--they are appointed by the pope and as such are direct representatives of God...to speak ill of a bishop is to go against the pope, so you should leave the church.

Kidding aside, there are very few issues that you will find complete agreement with in any church. In the 4th century the Council of Nice tried to come up with a set of common beliefs. About all they could come up with is the Nicene Creed that is read each Sunday in Catholic churches and many Protestant churches. And there was far from total agreement by the writers even for this short document of faith.

The way to change peoples minds is by quiet persuasion. Papal decrees have a nasty habit of backfiring—remember that German fellow named Luther that no one had ever heard of. What is tragic is that public opinion is slowly but steadily moving towards some restrictions on abortion. My fear is that this grandstanding by a few bishops will do more to reverse this progress than anything a few pro-choice politicians can do.

[Paulie]

"An ABC News-Washington Post poll last year found that 88 percent of Catholics find birth control morally acceptable, 62 percent found the death penalty morally acceptable and 30 percent found abortion acceptable."

Seems to me that regardless of whether these statistics represent the rank-and-file Catholic or not, it's the church LEADERS who'll be doing the honors of putting a stop to the hypocracy. Sheeple generally don't think things through before forming an opinion.

[peteram]

It's one thing to say we think Senator Kerry is wrong. But it's quite another to deny the means of grace because of a political position."

This statement tells me that this guy has no idea at all what he is talking about. A catholic must be IN a state of grace (free from sin through confession and repentance) before he/she can receive Communion. The sacrament is not a means of grace, it is a means of Communion with the Lord and the church.

[Valin]

That would be all well and good IF the Church of Rome was a democracy.

[solitas]

For a long time in American politics, many voters believed that the election of a Catholic president would lead the country under the sway of the pope on state matters, according to presidential historians. The election of John F. Kennedy buried those perceptions.

Well, YEAH - he and his siblings drank and swived and lied and drugged just like any OTHER sybaritic heathens...

[NeoCaveman]

Now that is a bigotted slam.

[Proud2BAmerican]

Kidding aside [...]

Your oversimplification and historical and factual distortion aside....yours was a funny post. :-)

[solitas]

The organization doesn't want you nor do the true member.[sic]

So, it's not what God wants but what the 'club members' want? Go read Romans 8:28 - God has who he wants where He wants them for His reasons - and maybe it's to temper YOU, or to have you work with/on this individual?

Would you agree that He puts people in our paths not necessarily for us to shove them out of the way but quite the OPPOSITE reason?

[RobbyS]

Abortion is a political issue and one created by an arrogant court speaking for an arrogant social elite. Instead of waiting for the remainder of the states to reform their abortion laws, they decided to impose a national standard.

[RobbyS]

Grandstanding when the issues at stake are far more serious than they were when Cuomo gave his Notre Dame speech? When he spoke the Supreme Court had not given constitutional cover to selective infanticide. The Democratic Party had not yet established a religious test for national candidacy which required all presidential candidates to support the most liberal abortion law in the world outside the old Communist block. Cuomo's speech is pure sophistry and in any case does not apply to the present situation. Sorry, but pragmatism does not work. Kerry is sucking up to the moral equivalents of the communists.

[Snuffington]

Blah, blah, blah for most of the article. It's a variation on a theme we've seen a dozen time already on this forum, in regards to Archbishop Burke alone (applause in his general direction before I move on).

This part pissed me off:

An ABC News-Washington Post poll last year found that 88 percent of Catholics find birth control morally acceptable, 62 percent found the death penalty morally acceptable and 30 percent found abortion acceptable.

Putting "the death penalty," something which is morally justifiable according to Catholic dogma, in the company of those other issues is very wrong!

Our current pope is personally against the death penalty. He has made very good arguments agasint it. What he has not done, nor attempted to do, is to pretend that his opinion on the matter carries the weight of a binding Church teaching.

Incidentally, the idea that polling is a good way to determine eternal truth just makes me giggle at the idiots who believe it.

[tkathy]

Birth control and abortion are moral issues, no laws will ever force people who want either to change their minds.

[McGavin999]

It's simple, if they don't want to adhere to Catholic doctrine, they should join another church. You can't be against everything a church stands for and still call yourself a member of that church. Most politicians use their religion for political advantage.

[BlessedBeGod]

I wonder if they used the disgraceful cop-out of annulment. (To me that would make the daughters ilegitimate.)

Annulment does not make children illegitimate.