Putin's 'Creeping Coup'

The New York Times ^ | February 9, 2004 | By WILLIAM SAFIRE

[gipper81]

Is Putin bad-or-good

Politician accuses Putin of 'liquidation'

[glady]

The latest noise from Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov.
This is not just noise. We should take this as a signal. Russia wants her national security concerns to be taken into consideration. What’s wrong with it? NATO is spreading eastward closer and closer to the Russian soil. She sees this as hostile environment; she naturally wants safety and is keen on preserving her conventional forces in Europe. Again what’s so much frightening in it? Let her have’ em. Mighty America with faithful European allies may well afford this. The present state of things in Russia is far from being cheerful. Current Russia is no match to America both military and economically. But Russian Bear driven to despair may make a lovely mess of things. And there are plenty causes for such despair. When America withdrew unilaterally from the 1972 ABM treaty in 2001 (after the Twin Tower disaster !) it was in no way inspiring for Russia. The spirit of cooperation and trust was endangered greatly then and many times more later on. We should patch up things instead of aggravating the situation.
Neo Imperialist Russia? Rubbish! Too exhausted to be.

[coolbe]

What is senator McCain after far as Russia is concerned? I guess he is just showing off using this hard rhetoric relating Russia. Wanting to be a political celebrity or what? Russian bear… Hmm… It’s really serious. We’d better not make him angry or desperate. It’s the lesson of history not missed on some smart pols (not Mr McCain ‘course). We’d better cooperate with Russia facing the same common challenge now and that is terrorism. The recent blast in the Moscow metro and the continuing terror attacks against American targets worldwide push us together.
Generally speaking we are very much alike with the Russians. My vision is cooperation with Russia. Otherwise we could encourage the alliance of the two giants Russia and China, which could be really scary.

[gipper81]

I agree that this not noise from Ivanov - that was supposed to be clever wording. Ivanov noise is really Ivanov pain. Russia is making choices. Russia is making un-democratic choices. Russia is in the G8. Russia thinks it will continue to receive a blank check for domestic behavior that runs counter to freedom. Russia is wrong.

Russia calls everything it doesn't like - national security concerns. NATO may be spreading eastward, but so is FREEDOM. Russia sees everything as a hostile environment it doesn't like. Is this behavior from a bear or a mouse?

Poland and the Baltics are interested in growth, progress and freedom. So are we. It is simply too damn bad that Russia has an different agenda. Russian has never been honest with itself and others. Russia simply will not and cannot change.

[gipper81]

Yes, we are alike but that doesn't mean we are making similar strategic decisions. Russia wants to play in the past. For us, it is the future.

[glady]

>Russia simply will not change and cannot change>

You sound somewhat illogical. Everything in our world is undergoing changes so is Russia. It can’t be otherwise. It’s a basic law of life. You are so aggressive in your denial of Russia. Actually YOU seem not wanting to change a bit. Why so? Russia has ALREADY changed greatly due to American involvement as well and now she is STILL in the process (making choices). And America continues to be an active part to it. Actually the image of future Russia depends greatly on America. To put it plainly America claims to be plying the role of a Messiah regarding Russia plus Poland, plus Baltic states, plus Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Georgia, India….. Thus she makes itself fully responbsible for them all! Isn’t it the burden too much even for the mighty America? Wouldn’t it be wiser to share this burden and responsibility with the UN and some regional powers? She seems not very inclined to. That’s why I guess there is a hidden American agenda here perhaps detrimental to the interests of other countries concerned.

[popvip]

NATO may be spreading eastward, but so is FREEDOM. Poland and the Baltics are interested in growth, progress and freedom.
NATO=FREEDOM? It made me the greatest belly laughs indeed. It’s just now they are really enjoying freedom after the end of Russian dominance and before entering NATO and all European structures. It will be long way of adjusting to new requirements with some vague and doubtful gains at the end.
Have you heard anything about Uzbekistan? It’s a former Soviet republic enjoying this ‘freedom’ after Americans came into the country in 2001. The local are pretty fed up with that freedom. It’s freedom to be a prostitute, to be unemployed, to give bribes to corrupted officials. Some of my friends living there say they don’t exclude the worst scenario of the civil war in their country. They are ready to flee this ‘paradise’ for some safer place (freedom to flee if you’ve got enough of money).

[Lazamataz]

You ask why I call Putin a totalitarian.

Read this article, and you will know why I so assert.

Pity, too: I actually considered moving to Russia as America becomes less free and more of a third-world jobless country.

[Lazamataz]

Oh shoot. This article didn't get into the topic I thought it would get into at all. I'm sorry guys. I'll see something that gets to the heart of the issue that I am thinking of.

[rrrod]

one small point in this discussion...recall the germans, french and russians forging a military alliance AGAINST the usa??? wonder how they are doing?

[RussianConservative]

Poland run by same communist party (this time elected) as of 1950+.