Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The soldier who refuses to fight (barf)
Toronto Globe and Mail ^ | Saturday, February 7, 2004 | By MICHAEL VALPY

Posted on 02/10/2004 2:20:37 PM PST by 68skylark

Edited on 02/10/2004 2:32:36 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

On a snowbound afternoon 955 kilometres north of where the U.S. Army says he should be, Private First Class Hinzman, Jeremy D., No. XXXXXXXX*, is sitting in the sunroom of the rambling old mansion owned by Toronto's pacifist Quakers. He is describing the chants he learned in basic training.

"You're always walking around in formation. And you have this [marching] chant: 'We're trained to kill, and kill we will.' And during bayonet training, the instructors ask this question, 'What makes the grass grow?' and everyone chants in response, 'Blood, blood, blood.' "

The U.S. Army wants him in Fort Bragg, N.C., home of the 82nd Airborne Division, "America's Guard of Honor." But this week Mr. Hinzman, 25, passed the 30-day limit for being absent without leave. He officially became a deserter.

Just before midnight on Jan. 2, he and his wife, Nga Nguyen, 31, quietly loaded their 21-month-old son, Liam, and a few belongings into their 1996 Chevrolet Prism and disappeared into the darkness for a 17-hour drive to the Canadian border. They left just before his unit -- the second battalion of the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment -- was shipped overseas.

As a result, Mr. Hinzman is believed to be the first U.S. soldier to apply for refugee status in Canada after refusing combat duty in Iraq -- the first echo of the 12,000 deserters and 20,000 draft resisters who came north more than 30 years ago to escape the Vietnam War.

In 2002, Mr. Hinzman asked the army to declare him a conscientious objector because he had arrived at the religious conviction that killing and war in any guise are wrong. His request was rejected.

He has in principle the basis for a refugee claim. He believes that the invasion of Iraq is an international human-rights violation in which he cannot morally take part; he says he will be subjected to persecution for this belief if sent back: imprisonment and dishonourable discharge, leading to discrimination in the job market. ("They were always telling us, 'You get dishonourable discharge and you're going to be flipping burgers your whole life.' ")

There is a precedent of sorts. Canada accepted an Iranian conscript who said he had deserted thinking his country was going to use chemical weapons.

In practice, however, the odds that Mr. Hinzman will be declared a refugee are not robust. "For Americans of any sort," says University of Toronto law professor Audrey Macklin, an expert on refugee law, "the chances are low. Extremely low. Very rare." As in, there may be a couple of favourable decisions by the Immigration and Refugee Board that have escaped notice.

Chuck Fager is executive director of Quaker House in Fayetteville, the city bordering Fort Bragg. Last year, his counsellors received 6,000 calls from troubled soldiers. He says Mr. Hinzman fits the profile of today's recruits: undereducated people from small-town and rural America with few employment opportunities who join up for the money.

Both Mr. Hinzman and his wife grew up in Rapid City, S.D., population 62,000, in the shadow of Mount Rushmore. After high school, he decided not go to college because he was afraid of saddling himself with student debt and "starting a whole cycle of middle-class existence." He went to work as a baker.

Ms. Nguyen earned an undergraduate social-work degree from the University of South Dakota and found a job working with disadvantaged preschool children. She met her future husband through a mutual acquaintance and fell in love.

They moved to Boston in 2000 to experience life in a big city. Ms. Nguyen, burned out from social work, found a job in a health-food store. Mr. Hinzman took whatever employment he could find.

They wanted to start a family, but Mr. Hinzman felt his life was going nowhere and hit on the idea of joining the army. If he served a four-year stint, the military would give him $50,000 he could use for college. Ms. Nguyen tried to talk him out of it. "I could see his thinking . . . but the military ! I finally said, 'You decide, and I'll support you.' "

He enlisted on Jan. 17, 2001, leaving Ms. Nguyen -- they had married a few weeks earlier -- in Boston while he did his basic training at Fort Benning in Georgia.

At first, he liked the army. He signed up for a paratroop regiment. He liked the camaraderie. He liked the idea of free housing and subsidized groceries. "Shooting rockets and machine guns and jumping out of planes, it's all fun until you start to think about the bigger picture and what it's all about."

Meaning an army's bottom-line purpose is to kill people. "Right. And the chants, that was disconcerting to me. I mean, you could play the game and yell it, but you could see that your fellow trainees were really getting into it . . . like they were totally losing their whole notion of self, turning into these little automatons. It was kind of frightening to me, but I pushed it to the back of my head. It was a pretty easy game to play."

Before enlisting, he had become interested in Buddhism, and one day at Fort Benning, the sergeant was doing his rounds and found him in the lotus position, meditating. "There was a big to-do about that, and people found out and were asking questions -- 'What the heck were you doing?' -- and I had to explain myself."

In July, 2001, Mr. Hinzman finished training and was posted to Fort Bragg. He was assigned a two-bedroom sixplex house with a little yard, and Ms. Nguyen joined him.

She felt isolated at the base, home to 45,000 service people. She tried going to wives' meetings, but she didn't fit in. The other women were either patriotically proud of their husbands or afraid to voice dissent for fear of harming their husbands' careers.

In the first week of September, she learned that she was pregnant. On Sept. 11, she heard a news broadcast and knew immediately that life was going to change.

The young couple suddenly found themselves amid frenetic patriotism they didn't share. They were horrified by the jetliner attacks but intellectually (Mr. Hinzman read the left-tilting Nation and Noam Chomsky) saw them as a consequence of U.S. foreign policy.

They attended Quaker meetings in Fayetteville, where they found friends and a spiritual approach to violence in the world that, says Ms. Nguyen, "felt very right."

Mr. Fager recalls that Mr. Hinzman didn't rush into applying for conscientious objector (CO) status. "He had philosophical issues to work through." And Mr. Hinzman says he felt "conflicted." He liked his job. He was a good soldier. But he didn't want to kill.

Finally, on Aug. 2, 2002, he asked to be transferred, as a conscientious objector,to non-combat duties. He submitted a six-page eloquent, thoughtful, often moving explanation of how spiritually he had come to change his mind about using a gun. He wrote that he had entered the army "to be part of a force that was working to do good . . . to help stem the tide of senseless conflict. . . . Although I still have a great desire to eliminate injustice, I have come to the realization that killing will do nothing but perpetuate it. Thus, I cannot in good conscience continue to serve as a combatant in the Army."

The army lost the application.

Which happens a lot, says Mr. Fager, who now advises soldiers to apply by registered mail.

Mr. Hinzman was told on Halloween that his paperwork had never turned up. By then, his unit knew it was going to Afghanistan.

He reapplied immediately. And he went to Afghanistan, where he was assigned to kitchen duty for eight months until his application could be considered.

A hearing was held before Lieutenant Dennis Fitzgerald at Kandahar Airfield on April 2, 2003.

Three of his sergeants testified that he was a good soldier who "embodied Army Values." But one of them, First Sgt. James Carabello, said he couldn't understand how Mr. Hinzman, with all his training, could suddenly decide he was a conscientious objector.

"He fully knew what our mission is, and that is to do an Airborne Assault onto an objective and destroy the enemy. This did not become an issue until it was apparent we were going to deploy to Afghanistan."

That wasn't true. He had applied several weeks before learning about the deployment.

Even so, Lt. Fitzgerald rejected the application. His hearing was over 25 minutes after it began.

In a volunteer military, the presumption is that soldiers are not opposed to war, says Lt.-Col. Rick Mathis, a senior policy army chaplain at the Pentagon. The purpose of the hearing, he says, is to allow applicants "to rebut that reasonable presumption." And although army regulations do permit a successful CO applicant to be assigned to non-combat duties -- medic, clerk, cook -- in practice, Col. Mathis says, "I haven't seen it."

In other words, the army thinks that you're not reasonable if you become morally opposed to war after you've voluntarily enlisted. But if you make your case, you're discharged. And if you don't, you pick up your gun. There's no middle ground.

When Mr. Hinzman and his unit finally returned to Fort Bragg, he was made his company's armourer, looking after the weapons. Eight months later, on Dec. 20, he was told that his regiment was shipping out again, this time to Iraq.

Back in Rapid City for Christmas, he agonized over what to do, sharing his thoughts with family members, except for his highly patriotic grandfather. His mother and grandmother were sympathetic (his father is dead), and on Dec. 28, he decided to join the 1 per cent of U.S. soldiers -- about 4,000 a year, the Pentagon says -- who desert.

His wife felt relief. For Ms. Nguyen, the issue was simple: "I wanted Liam to have a father. The college money? It would be no good if you're dead."

The family returned to Fort Bragg, and on Jan. 2, Mr. Hinzman had the day off work. The couple cleared out their refrigerator. They packed up their books and stored them in the basement of Quaker House. They arranged for a civilian friend with a truck to pick up other belongings after they had left. They had already wired their savings to a bank in Rapid City. And they had looked up maps on the Internet to find the best route to Toronto

At 11 p.m., they bundled Liam into the 1996 Chevrolet Prism and drove into the night.

Jeffrey House, picked by Mr. Hinzman from a list of lawyers provided by the Quakers, says the first thing his new client asked was whether U.S. officials could cross the border and take him back.

They can't. They never could. But other things have changed. In the Vietnam era, the federal government never declared fugitives from the military to be refugees; it just didn't look too closely at how they got into the country or qualified as landed immigrants. Mr. Hinzman isn't likely to receive the same laissez-faire scrutiny.

The family moved into a basement apartment this week to await their hearing. Mr. Hinzman wants to be a bicycle courier once he can legally work. "He's very fit," Ms. Nguyen says.

Last week, three soldiers from a sister regiment sent to Iraq at the same time as the 504th were killed by a roadside bomb. A fourth was critically injured.

Michael Valpy reports on faith and ethics for The Globe and Mail.

* SS# edited


TOPICS: Canada; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: agitprop; antiamericanism; canada; deserter; desertion; loathethemilitary; lovedclintonswars; mediabias; thesecolorsdontrun; timeofwar; toronto
It's hard to express my disgust at this story. To be charitable, I guess he's just a mixed up young man. The "grown ups" who have facilitated his crime should be prosecuted also.

He doesn't seem to grasp that the penalty for desertion in time of war can be death (though, of course, a tough prison sentence will be the more likely outcome).

1 posted on 02/10/2004 2:20:39 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
He is not mixed up.

Call him what he is. He is a coward. Just like most of those on the left. They are cowards who believe that their country exists to serve them, instead of the other way around.
2 posted on 02/10/2004 2:28:19 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Wonder what can be done with the SSN that was posted?
3 posted on 02/10/2004 2:28:52 PM PST by dts32041 ("First, what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I'll buy it." RAH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Thank heavens he won't be endangering his fellow soldiers.

Free housing,commissary and a college education,Noah Chomsky and the Nation ,good.Actually doing his duty,bad...What a mixture of priorities for a man who joined the military.Good Riddance..
4 posted on 02/10/2004 2:30:01 PM PST by MEG33 (BUSH/CHENEY '04)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dts32041
Yeah, I wondered that myself. That's one problem with U. S. military service -- your SSN gets plastered all over the place.
5 posted on 02/10/2004 2:30:03 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Buddhism, Quakers, The Nation, wife was a social worker, he didn't want to go to college and it just goes on and on............
6 posted on 02/10/2004 2:32:18 PM PST by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dts32041
Wonder what can be done with the SSN that was posted?

Well, someone could conceivably steal his identity.

The question is, who would want to?

7 posted on 02/10/2004 2:33:33 PM PST by Prime Choice (I'm pro-choice. I just think the "choice" should be made *before* having sex.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dts32041
Since there's an arrest warrant out for this young man now, it would be pretty funny if some identity thief made the mistake of trying to impersonate this deserter. Some petty thief could find himself in Ft. Leavenworth before the mixup got fixed!
8 posted on 02/10/2004 2:34:57 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
v
 
"The soldier who refuses to fight"
 
Geez...at first glance I thought this was going to be an article about John Kerry
 
 
2003 Kerry stopped Vietnam Human Rights Act
Montagnard Christians forced to drink a mixture of
goat's blood and alcohol and renounce Christianity.


By Former Vietnam POW Mike Benge
 
Kerry

9 posted on 02/10/2004 2:35:23 PM PST by Dr. Marten (Treason...How can such a small word mean so little to so many?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
He liked the idea of free housing and subsidized groceries.

The little POS was a communist from the get-go. Stage a nighttime commando raid to get him and jail his @ss.

10 posted on 02/10/2004 2:35:59 PM PST by TheBigB (Anna Kournikova......Swimsuit Issue......http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1075182/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
He didn't want to be a soldier. He wanted to use the Army for personal gain. Lock 'em up.
11 posted on 02/10/2004 2:36:34 PM PST by jtminton (2Timothy 4:2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Ah Quaker guns strike again, they are looking for the big win that they had in the Peninsula campaign of 62, which spurred little mac to become the peace candidate in 64.
12 posted on 02/10/2004 2:37:17 PM PST by dts32041 ("First, what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I'll buy it." RAH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Now that I think about it, lots of people use the military for college. But lock him up anyway.
13 posted on 02/10/2004 2:37:25 PM PST by jtminton (2Timothy 4:2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Could you remove the SSN on the main page showing the first paragraph? There are too many crooks that can use it.
14 posted on 02/10/2004 2:38:00 PM PST by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

Thanks
15 posted on 02/10/2004 2:39:02 PM PST by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Does anyone know what ever happened with those soldiers who came home on leave and never showed up to go back to Iraq? I never heard if they showed up eventually, or just deserted.
16 posted on 02/10/2004 2:40:54 PM PST by CalKat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Before enlisting, he had become interested in Buddhism, and one day at Fort Benning, the sergeant was doing his rounds and found him in the lotus position, meditating. "There was a big to-do about that, and people found out and were asking questions -- 'What the heck were you doing?' -- and I had to explain myself."

Oh, how tragic! Those mean soldiers!
17 posted on 02/10/2004 2:41:27 PM PST by erasmus605
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jtminton
No pardons for deserters from this f*#king war, not after three thousand of our people were butchered.

I hope he gets homesick. Then we'll have a chance to send the freeloader to Leavenworth. Joined the Army for college money, I'll bet. Didn't think he'd have to go to war.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

18 posted on 02/10/2004 2:41:40 PM PST by section9 (Major Motoko Kusanagi says, "I have John Kerry's medals at my blog. Click on the pic!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
YELLOW
Total discrace. If he ever comes back stateside he should be arrested then executed for cowardice
19 posted on 02/10/2004 2:48:44 PM PST by 76834
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Just before midnight on Jan. 2, he and his wife, Nga Nguyen, 31, quietly loaded their 21-month-old son, Liam, and a few belongings into their 1996 Chevrolet Prism and disappeared into the darkness for a 17-hour drive to the Canadian border. They left just before his unit -- the second battalion of the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment -- was shipped overseas.

As a result, Mr. Hinzman is believed to be the first U.S. soldier to apply for refugee status in Canada after refusing combat duty in Iraq -- the first echo of the 12,000 deserters and 20,000 draft resisters who came north more than 30 years ago to escape the Vietnam War.

Let me see if I can put this in perspective.

The anti-war protests all but ended when Nixon suspended the draft. Why did that happen? Because most of those protesting the war were – like Mr. Hinzman is – a coward.

After high school, he decided not go to college because he was afraid of saddling himself with student debt and "starting a whole cycle of middle-class existence." He went to work as a baker.

Let me see. Mr. Hinzman is also an idiot. He would rather work as a baker at near minimum wage rather than go to college to obtain skills that might allow him to enter – or stay in – the middle class? [Note: I have nothing against bakers. We need bakers. But the reason given in the story that Hinzman became a baker shows he is an idiot.]

Before enlisting, he had become interested in Buddhism,…

Gee, if my memory serves me correctly, aren’t the Buddhists the ones who believe they will be reincarnated? And weren’t the self-immolators in Vietnam always Buddhist monks? So why doesn’t Hinzman just douse himself in gasoline and go have a smoke?

… but intellectually (Mr. Hinzman read the left-tilting Nation and Noam Chomsky) saw them as a consequence of U.S. foreign policy.

I suppose one is only an “intellectual” if one reads Nation and Noam Chomsky and believes the murderous thugs who follow Usama bint Ladin only became murderous thugs because they are so offended by our foreign policy.

They attended Quaker meetings in Fayetteville,…

I suppose all Buddhists go to Quaker meetings?

Let me see. Mrs. Hinzman hears the report of the events of 9/11. They go to a Quaker meeting. Mr. Hinzman applies for conscientious objector (CO) status. Am I the only one who smells Hinzman’s fear?

The army lost the application.

Which happens a lot, says Mr. Fager, who now advises soldiers to apply by registered mail.

Excuse me? How many CO applications does the Army process in a year?

For Ms. Nguyen, the issue was simple: "I wanted Liam to have a father. The college money? It would be no good if you're dead."

At least Ms. Nguyen is honest. She admits this is about fear of dying.

Mr. Hinzman wants to be a bicycle courier once he can legally work.

He has such lofty aspirations.

20 posted on 02/10/2004 2:49:05 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
"Chuck Fager is executive director of Quaker House in Fayetteville, the city bordering Fort Bragg. Last year, his counsellors received 6,000 calls from troubled soldiers. He says Mr. Hinzman fits the profile of today's recruits: "UNDEREDUCATED" people from small-town and rural America with few employment opportunities who join up for the money".

Every one is a volunteer today. Everyone is a High School Grad. He is not a victim. He left his share of work to be done by others. I am sick of these cowards that join for the benefits then when it is time to repay what they were given they start to cry conscientious objector. Also, the article tries to make it sound like he is going to prison. I hope he thinks so, and wish he would, however, unless there has been a drastic change, someone that was AWOL for over 30 days was DFR (Dropped from rolls). Once apprehended or turned self in, they were discharged. No Jail, No Dis-Honorable Discharge. That may have changed, but not that I have heard.
21 posted on 02/10/2004 2:52:11 PM PST by MPJackal (Simper Gumby)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CalKat
Does anyone know what ever happened with those soldiers who came home on leave and never showed up to go back to Iraq?

Like many things, it was a tempest the press invented in a teapot. In reality, the people in the news stories had some valid reason to be absent a bit longer, or they simply missed a flight and caught the next one, etc.

22 posted on 02/10/2004 2:52:40 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: jtminton
I joined the Navy partly for college money, but also for duty. I went into the medical field because I felt I couldnt kill anyone, nor would I want to. However I felt I had a duty to keep those protecting my rights alive. It is very easy to become a non-combatant in the military, this kid didnt research it, sounds like it was a knee jerk reaction to being called up. Minus 9/11, the rumour mill told me weeks if not months before we were officially told we were going to (add country here).
23 posted on 02/10/2004 2:54:46 PM PST by Docbarleypop (HM2(SW/FMF) USN (Ret))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
He joined in early 2001. This is 2004, and he's still an Army PFC?

I like to think that he would have been found out in USMC boot camp.

24 posted on 02/10/2004 2:55:17 PM PST by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
It's very thoughtful of you to request that this SSN be deleted. I didn't think of that. Of course, if anyone wants it they can just click the link to the original story.
25 posted on 02/10/2004 2:55:37 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: The KG9 Kid
I figured someone would disparage the Army eventually, and build up the Marines. But I think I remember newpaper stories about Marines who refused to deploy to combat also, so it's not just an Army matter. And casting aspersions on the Army isn't the way to make the Marine Corps look better anyway.
26 posted on 02/10/2004 2:59:23 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
He doesn't seem to grasp that the penalty for desertion in time of war can be death (though, of course, a tough prison sentence will be the more likely outcome).

All he has to do is wait until a dem is in the White House and he will be given amnesty. Like all of the pukes in kanada did until Karter came along.

27 posted on 02/10/2004 3:04:22 PM PST by 11Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
"He's very fit," Ms. Nguyen says.

He's a coward - plain and simple. As long as the military took care of his needs, things were ok. When it came time to pay back - he deserted like a RAT.

28 posted on 02/10/2004 3:07:20 PM PST by LADY J
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 11Bush
That's a good point. Sen. Kerry just said he supports draft dodgers and deserters -- it's just a different kind of service!* I wonder how many others will hear that and be tempted to leave for Canada.


*"I have always honored and I will always honor anybody who serves anywhere," the Cox News Service recently quoted Kerry as saying. "I've said since the day I came back from Vietnam that it was not an issue to me if somebody chose to go to Canada or to go to jail or to be a conscientious objector or to serve in the National Guard or elsewhere."
29 posted on 02/10/2004 3:09:55 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
To tell the truth I dream of a day when all of these assclowns leave the country. Of course the dream includes locking the door behind them.
30 posted on 02/10/2004 3:18:27 PM PST by 11Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Note that according to the article, "The Nation" and Chomsky are "left-leaning." Wouldn't it be more honest to say that they are far left?

Note also that the author of this piece really can't bring himself to stating the obvious: the man is a coward, pure and simple.
31 posted on 02/10/2004 3:38:43 PM PST by OldPossum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
he says he will be subjected to persecution for this belief if sent back: imprisonment and dishonourable discharge, leading to discrimination in the job market.

You've got that right, son. They will hang you out to dry. Make stupid choices and you will pay the price. The Army does not look kindly on deserters in time of war.

NOTE: Kerry and his cohort claim the same status for our Preseident and Commander-in-Chief

LiteKeeper
Chaplain, US Army, retired
Viet Nam Veteran Against John Kerry (VNNAJK)

32 posted on 02/10/2004 3:48:24 PM PST by LiteKeeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OldPossum
I don't think honest reporting to foremost on the mind of this reporter. He's probably a Chomsky and Nation reader himself.

Did you note the sly little comment from the reporter that this case is the "first echo" from the Vietnam era? I'm sure the reporter is hoping this case will be the start of a bigger trend, but it aint gonna happen.
33 posted on 02/10/2004 3:53:16 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Canda can keep the yellow bellied dirt bag because I don't want my kids serving with him.
34 posted on 02/10/2004 3:54:41 PM PST by armymarinemom (My Son Liberated the Honor Roll Students in Iraq)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: armymarinemom
I agree with you. I don't think he'll ever return to military service in the U. S., unless you count time served in an Army jail.
35 posted on 02/10/2004 3:57:29 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Pukin Dog
They are cowards who believe that their country exists to serve them, instead of the other way around.

Actually, the country does exist to serve us. The other way around is called fascism, Nazism and communism. Is that what you are?

36 posted on 02/10/2004 4:04:31 PM PST by Trickyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
Canada can keep this dirtbag, 'cause I sure as hell wouldn't trust him to watch another soldier's back.

As far as applying for C.O. status prior to deployment notification, the unit usually pick up deployment news via the Army clerk telegraph way before the "official" notification ever comes.

37 posted on 02/10/2004 4:20:24 PM PST by Jonah Hex (If repetition wasn't a good thing, why would people get married?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 76834
Total discrace. If he ever comes back stateside he should be arrested then executed for cowardice

Don't think that will ever happen. Desertion in time of war is punishable by death. But the United States is not in a legal state of war. The United States has not declared war since December of 1941.

Any lawyers invited to correct me.

38 posted on 02/10/2004 4:54:18 PM PST by navyblue
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Trickyguy
We ARE this country.

We collectively provide both the Freedom and the Ideas that keep this country free and safe. We serve an idea; a notion that Freedom is something worth dying for, that the lives of those who come after us are worthy of the protections granted us by our maker and our Constitution. Our service, is to ourselves, not to a nation state under forced conscription.
Our country is not a derived State, controlled by men who enslave other men, it is a nation of free people who stay that way because myself and others at one time put our lives on the line, protecting your rights from those who would remove them from you.

Now, bright boy, if you believe any of that has anything to do with fascism, Nazism or communism, then you are tricky indeed.

39 posted on 02/10/2004 4:57:48 PM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: MIchaelTArchangel
That "LOST IN THE MAIL" stuff works BOTH ways... I woiuld bet a dollar to a donut that the yellow- bellied coward NEVER mailed the first application.... he lied about it.... just biding his time so he could get less hassles from his superiors!

Then, when he heard the unit was going to ship out to the WAR... he filed his papers and whined about the military losing the first set.

WHAT A STUPID PUNK! I HATE LOSERS LIKE HIM!

Hope he rots and his cowardly-ingrate wife too!

40 posted on 02/10/2004 5:00:21 PM PST by Lion in Winter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
That wasn't true. He had applied several weeks before learning about the deployment.

It was too true. Anyone not a moron knew by September 15 that US forces would be headed to Afghanistan. Then again, being how this dude is a Chomsky reader, maybe his moron rating is pretty high.

41 posted on 02/10/2004 5:10:46 PM PST by Petronski (John Kerry looks like . . . like . . . weakness.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MPJackal
It is not easy getting into the military these days. When I joined in '69 there was one requirement: You had to be breathing. Now you have to be pretty damned smart. Dummies can't get in.
42 posted on 02/10/2004 5:33:03 PM PST by Terry Mross
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark
he says he will be subjected to persecution for this belief if sent back: imprisonment and dishonourable discharge, leading to discrimination in the job market. ("They were always telling us, 'You get dishonourable discharge and you're going to be flipping burgers your whole life.' ")
What a vile insult to those who came here fleeing real persecution. How I wish we could send him to a country where he can experience the real thing.

There is a precedent of sorts. Canada accepted an Iranian conscript who said he had deserted thinking his country was going to use chemical weapons.
There is no comparison between a conscript in a totalitarian society and a volunteer in a free one.

AFAIK we could give him the boot if Uncle Sam asks- desertion is a crime in both countries so the US could have him extradited.

43 posted on 02/10/2004 5:36:10 PM PST by Squawk 8888 (Earth first! We can mine the other planets later.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pukin Dog

"Well said."

44 posted on 02/10/2004 6:35:19 PM PST by Jonah Hex (If repetition wasn't a good thing, why would people get married?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson