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What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda
self | February 11, 2004 | little jeremiah

Posted on 02/11/2004 9:00:13 PM PST by little jeremiah

What We Can Do To Defeat The "Gay" Agenda

Dear Fellow Freepers,

The following informal essay has two parts, the first consisting of ideas of what individuals or small groups can do to help thwart, roll back, defeat and otherwise throw a monkey wrench into the onslaught of the "gay" agenda and their stated goal to destroy the moral fabric of society. I am hoping that discussion will ensue, with theoretical ideas as well as accomplished plans. Information and knowledge are the key. Since most people just watch TV and read the establishment media, which are lapdogs of the "gay" elite, they just do not know the truth about homosexuality.

The second part is my analysis of the root cause of the homosexual movement, going a bit deeper than environment and molestation. It is "religious" or "spiritual" in aspect, so anyone who wishes to avoid that type of discussion can avoid it! This analysis is germane to the cure, not only of the homosexual agenda, but the untrammeled hedonism and libertinism of which homosexuality is the poster child.

[Note: I am not attempting to recap the immediate causes of homosexuality, or prove that it is not inborn, or give evidence as to why same sex acts are abnormal, unhealthy, or immoral, or to prove that homosexuals can change. FR already has hundreds of archived articles of this nature.]

Part One: Ideas on Promoting the Truth about Homosexuality

A friend of ours homeschools her children, so as to protect them from the horrible influence of public schools, instill her personal moral values, and give them the best education possible. She knew that homosexuality was unhealthy, immoral, and unnatural, but until I gave her books and booklets I purchased from Scott Lively's website (www.abidingtruth.com) she was not able to articulate her viewpoint. After studying the materials I provided, she became a one-woman task force, gave her elderly father books to read, and shared the books with the charter/homeschool teacher. The teacher, who also had not been very well-informed, had her mind blown (so to speak) and ordered more materials for herself, and placed a link to Lively's website on her personal website. Lively has a number of very informative booklets that can be purchased in bulk cheap, and they are great for distributing. So because I informed one friend, many others have been informed. This particular charter school is all for homeschooled children, and there are about 500 families involved.

By purchasing Lively's materials (or reprints from other groups such as NAARTH and the Family Research Council) and making them available at your church, synagogue or other house of worship, many people can become informed. Materials can be purchased and mailed or given to pastors at other churches, or any organization or club that you belong to.

I have found that if I talk to people in the line at the grocery store, or the cashier, often people are happy to find that others have the same viewpoint, but they are afraid to admit that they think same sex acts to be unhealthy or wrong. Just by speaking up in public, we can encourage others to think for themselves, and not be intimidated by social pressure.

Of course, letters can be written to newspapers (they've never printed one of mine!), legislators, and media people. We could try calling up local talk radio shows to tell the truth or attend school board meetings to protest the homosexual infiltration of the schools. Of course, by doing any of these things we will be "outing" ourselves as homophobes ;-) but that's the risk one takes by speaking the truth.

And then there are guerilla tactics: print up some fact sheets about the nature of and diseases spread by homosexual acts, statistics about molestation rates, etc - make them colorful and readable, and broadcast them about town. Laudromats, bulletin boards in stores, public facilities, rest stops, community college or other educational institutions, any place you can find. Good places would be where there is a lot of foot traffic, especially where high school kids can see them. High schools kids are really being targeted by homosexual activists, so the more they can see the truth, the better.

Another post-it tactic: make or obtain stickers with the names and phone numbers of organizations that help people overcome homosexuality, and stick them near high schools, colleges, downtowns, and so on. You never know whose life might change because of one phone call. Or, place ads in the classified ads section of local newspapers or weekly magazines with the same information.

Other promotional ideas are bumper stickers (make you own, or maybe someone knows where to order pro-family stickers). Ideas for slogans: Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve; Marriage=One Man+One Woman; Children Need a Mother and Father, Not Two of a Kind; Same Sex Acts Are Not Healthy For Living Things; Want to get AIDS? Be Gay!; Don't confuse "Exit" with "Entry"; Don't Mess With Marriage; "Gay" Sex Isn't Gay…. These could also be signs in car windows, yard signs, signs held at rallies.

Protest at "Gay Pride" Parades. If protesting at such public events, wear protective clothing and go in groups, carry antiseptic handwipes and have a camera and maybe tape recorder. No telling what might ensue. Here's an idea that someone freepmailed to me, and it sounds good:

"I have an idea I'd like to pass your way. I suggest that we get permits to set up tables in front of (or near) our respective churches/synagogues along the local "Pride" parade routes this coming June, with literature about reparative therapy. Each table should also have someone there to document all the juvenile insults and threats thrown our way on a videocam, and send copies of the films to the local tv news to include as part of their coverage."

These are just a few ideas. Let's hear yours!

Part Two: The Root Cause of Homosexuality

Everyone needs happiness, love and pleasure. These needs stem directly from the soul, and get interpreted through the body - think of how many people eat because they are lonely, depressed, or in anxiety. A healthy balanced person will eat when hungry, and when in need of companionship will turn to a relative, friend, or even pet for company. The need for love is really paramount, a deeper need than the bodily requirements. What hurts more, a broken heart, or a hungry stomach? Our culture has denied the fact - basic to all religions (probably a few exceptions, but this is not the debate here) - that human beings even have souls, what to speak of the needs of the soul. In fact, the accepted "scientifically based" theory is that humans are just machines, made of chemicals, evolved by accident, and the "self" doesn’t even really exist. In an atmosphere of such impersonal nihilism, it is natural that many people will be easily convinced that real love, real happiness, real heart to heart connection, don't exist.

What can take its place? Instant pleasure. Shopping. Drug and alcohol abuse. Or, most seductive of all, orgasms. And since the sexual organs have no conscience, a wide variety of options is available to people who have been convinced that God doesn't exist, there are no rules - or higher purpose - to life, and instant gratification is the only yardstick to measure happiness with.

There are two kinds of happiness - the kind that comes from the outside - eating, sex, comforts, and the devices or arrangements that facilitate such, as well as more intangible pleasures such as accomplishments, goals achieved, music, arts, learning, and so on. The second kind of happiness comes only from within the heart, and this happiness is our relationship with God. Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within us, and the same truth is stated in Hindu scriptures (the Vedas) as well. A surrendered soul can experience the loving embrace of God anywhere, any time - if he truly desires and strives for this loving relationship. The experience that God is my best friend, my only refuge, my source of happiness, and indeed, the very foundation for and purpose of my existence - is the only real meaning of religion. Currently, in many religions, the concept that God is a real Person is left out, glossed over, He is described as an amorphous mystery, or that "we are God", or that He is just energy or a force. But according to Jesus, the teachings in the Old Testament, and the teachings of the Vedas, re-establishing a loving relationship with the Supreme Person is the only thing that will fill the emptiness in our hearts. If this knowledge is denied, as in most of our culture, people will seek to fill this void by any means at hand. And if the moral absolutes that are part of God's instructions to humanity are tossed out, then anything goes. If sexual pleasure is the goal of life, and there are no eternal moral truths, then there is no reason to not accept same sex acts, or, for that matter, any kind of sexual activity.

Therefore, the real antidote to the "gay" agenda, as well as the breakdown of civilization it heralds, is the spiritual awakening of many individuals, and the understanding that such an awakening is not only important but essential.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: culturewar; culturewars; gayagenda; glsen; homonazi; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; prisoners; profamilyactivism; romans1
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To: little jeremiah
Your philosophy is well thought through and logically consistent.
101 posted on 02/18/2004 2:00:24 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (arabed - verb: lower in esteem; hurt the pride of [syn: mortify, chagrin, humble, abase, humiliate])
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To: little jeremiah
SORRY!

No problem. Your first pass spelling did not detract from your message in the least.

102 posted on 02/18/2004 2:02:12 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (arabed - verb: lower in esteem; hurt the pride of [syn: mortify, chagrin, humble, abase, humiliate])
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To: Jeff Gordon
Thanks - it's a topic I've given a lot of thought and prayer to.
103 posted on 02/18/2004 3:07:56 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: little jeremiah
Are you referring to my messages here, or my story of ten years ago? As far as I am concerned, Phelps is a crazy wicked man.

I don't recall ever reading your "story of ten years ago" and I certainly didn't mean to imply that anything you posted above sounded like Fred Phelps.

I was just pointing out that there's a fine line between effectively countering the gay agenda, and coming off as meanspirited and just plain offensive which ultimately is counterproductive.

For example I thought some of your suggested slogans were good, but thought others would just be inflamatory.

104 posted on 02/18/2004 3:45:04 PM PST by Jorge
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To: Jorge
The story from ten years ago is up the thread a little.

I can understand your concern about "inflammatory" bumper stickers and such. But after reading many of the links EdReform and scripter post here, especially about the homosexual indoctrination and recruitment in schools, I'm feeling pretty damn mean spirited. Have you read those links - about the GSLEN clubs in school, Fistgate and so on? It's a war. It's not a square dance.
105 posted on 02/18/2004 5:12:36 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: VxH
=== Clever rationalization.

I'm not rationalizing ANYTHING. I'm speaking to what IS.

Heterosexuals -- availing themselves of both the "right" to contraception as well as the "right" to manufacture children at will -- have rendered themselves essentially equal to homosexuals.

They are not obligating themselves -- by virtue of their very conjugal union -- to responsibility for ANY child that issues therefrom. Like homosexuals, they have claimed for themselves the Freedom to Choose whether or not sexual relations will be procreative, whether or not marriage is a lifetime obligation and whether or not children have the right to be born of their natural parents ... absent the immoral technologies which leave a slew of siblings suspended in liquid nitrogen and ripe for the harvesting by those profiteers who provided our President his already-been-killed embryos and who intend California to become the premiere supplier of human life conceived strictly for purposes of harvesting stem cells.

It's you who have the onus of proving to me that there is some essential distinction between the heterosexual couple and the homosexual one at this point.

To my knowledge, only the Covenant Marriage in Louisiana stands as a distinctly Christian confection of a marriage contract ... not only for its clear relation to Family but also its revoking upfront any of the "no fault" ease with which most marriages are dissolved these days once one or another of the partners fails to feel fulfilled where their "right to be happy" is concerned.

I'm not defending homosexuality in the least. I'm simply pointing out the FACT that the games has already been forfeit in advance by the very individuals -- like some on this thread -- who wish to eat their cake and have it too by enjoying all the trappings of birth control and artificial reproduction, pre-nup agreements and "no fault" divorce which rendered them essentially equal to homosexuals in the first place yet claiming that they are yet distinct from homosexuals because (God forbid!!) their birth control doesn't always work like it should.
106 posted on 02/18/2004 8:36:09 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
>> I'm simply pointing out the FACT that the games has already been forfeit in advance by the very individuals


See C.S. Lewis' essay "The poison of subjectivism".

Scripture, not human behavior, is the standard by which morality is measured.

God has made it quite clear in His Word that marriage is between a man and a woman. He also made it clear that homosexuality is an abomination.

It's much simpler than you insist on making it...

Sola Scriptura.
107 posted on 02/18/2004 8:57:38 PM PST by VxH (This species has amused itself to death.)
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To: little jeremiah
This is a great article!
I think the hardest part about the homosexual issue is that the media and society really have adopted the 'born that way' mantra. I live in the San Fran bay area, and have a few gay friends. and it has been difficult for me to realize that every one of them are that way because of the parenting they got. The abusive and neglecting father turned the sons gay, the abscent and neglectful mother turned the girls lesbian.

I know this is not what this thread wants to get into, so I won't start this debate. But I do think this is critical to the 'heterosexual rights movement'. ;-)
108 posted on 02/18/2004 9:39:39 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
yes, it probably will take a lot of work on our part. But we gotta stop being silent.
109 posted on 02/18/2004 9:41:39 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: VxH
Ah, "sola scriptura" is it? You're quoting Luther ... a fellow who felt himself equal to editing the Word?

Look ... no offense, but I don't have time to waste with bibliolators who claim a literal obedience to Scripture save for the part where Christ himself said: This IS my body, this IS my blood. DO THIS in memory of me.

If you wish to talk about what constitutes a Christian marriage ... all well and good. I'm sure we're in agreement ... save for the part where we keep it to a reasonable number of children, each perfectly Planned with an assist from CONTRA-ceptives.

But where we're speaking of Civil Marriage ... I refuse to pretend that sanction by the same State which sanctions abortion, birth control, for-profit childsex porn as "Free Speech" and a host of other atrocities somehow confers legitimacy on a union.

At this point, Christians would be better off to abandon civil unions entirely and found their authority STRICTLY and solely in a Christian construct ... not some egalitarian horror show which indeed has deconstructed heterosexual marriage such that homosexuals could claim "equality".
110 posted on 02/18/2004 9:42:14 PM PST by Askel5
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To: little jeremiah
That's another thing I want to point out. Of all the male gay couples I have known, about 10-15 of them that are 'married', not a ONE of those couples even try to be monogamous. They just admit that two men together can't do it.
111 posted on 02/18/2004 9:44:55 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: Askel5
>>save for the part where Christ himself said: This IS my body, this IS my blood. DO THIS in memory of me.
 
Those are the words used in the Lutheran (LCMS) Communion sacrament - as per scripture:
 
Matt 26:26-29
 
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 
 
27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." 
(from New International Version)
 
 
Next?
 
 

112 posted on 02/18/2004 10:08:41 PM PST by VxH (This species has amused itself to death.)
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To: Jorge
yes, this is true. I mean, not only is that hateful and awful, but it's not even true. The "God Hates Fags" is terrible.
113 posted on 02/18/2004 10:15:29 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: little jeremiah
You know, you are very thoughtful and convey your suggestions well on this forum! I think you could help tremendously with all this. Please keep posting this issue on FR.
114 posted on 02/18/2004 10:20:27 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: sfRummygirl
You are absolutely right about this being a key element in turning the tide against the atrocities heralded by "gay" marriage and the indoctrination of kids.

Homosexuality is not and never has been, and never will be, an inborn, inherited, carved-in-stone identity. It is a behavior pattern based on the misdirection of natural sexual desires. Sex desire gone bad. And when it goes bad, it ruins people and ultimately society, if not defeated.

Check out some books on this website, if you want to read more. Lively has put together some really good materials that help you to talk to people from their level. Of course, we all know what scripture says about homosexual acts (and not just the Bible, but all Judaic literature like the Talmud, and Hindu scripture, and even Buddhist teachings) but to people who don't have strong faith in God (or none) just scriptural quotes won't help them.

Lively has very, very good materials and actually tomorrow I'm going to type up and post a letter he's sent out. He and his law partner are one of the two legal entities fighting the "gay" marriage in SF.

Anyway, here's the link to his website:

http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/showproducts.php

This is just one page of the books they have available. For a great read, get "The Pink Swastika" - I couldn't put it down.

Here's a sample of some titles:

Defeating "Gay" Arguments With Simple Logic
Easy-to-use guidelines for winning the homosexual debate by exposing the hidden false assumptions and deceptive rhetoric of "gay" arguments.


Seven Steps To Recruit-Proof Your Child
A concise, practical guidebook for parents who wish to protect their children from pro-homoesxual indoctrination and the possibility of recruitment into the homosexual lifestyle.

The Pink Swastika: 4th Edition
The Pink Swastika is a thoroughly researched, eminently readable, demolition of the "gay" myth, symbolized by the pink triangle, that the Nazis were anti-homosexual.

The Poisoned Stream
Traces the "poisoned stream" of homosexual influences throughout history, particularly in Germany between 1890 and 1945.

Why and How To Defeat the 'Gay' Movement
A straightforward non-sectarian approach for rolling back the "gay" agenda...
115 posted on 02/18/2004 10:28:32 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: sfRummygirl
Thanks for your kind words.

Now if I could only get off my duff and DO something!

Seriously, if there's any kind of protests, rallies, or anything in SF or Sacramento, put it up here on this thread, and maybe elsewhere as well. I'll ping my list.

Put your thinking cap on - signs, street theater, costumes, we need to show the rest of America that we're not taking this lying down (or bending over, as the case may be)!

(sorry for the crude humor - but I didn't start this.)
116 posted on 02/18/2004 10:34:08 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: little jeremiah
This is unbelievable stuff. It boggles the mind how this can go on in this country. It's time to move on and leave this country behind. I am waiting on God to call me and my family out. A line has been crossed and this country is no longer safe for children or christians for that matter. It's time to pack up and let God send forth his destruction upon this wicked nation and it's purveyers of filth and wickedness. I have been feeling like we have become the Mystery, Babylon the Great whose judgement is prophesied in Revelations to come upon them in one hour. Now I am assured of this.
117 posted on 02/18/2004 10:36:09 PM PST by AppauledAtAppeasementConservat (An educated fool, in the end, is still a fool.)
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To: little jeremiah
thank you, I bookmarked these!
118 posted on 02/18/2004 10:38:00 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: little jeremiah
If we do organize something, it needs to be structured by a group. This could get out of control, and bring too many of the "God Hates Fags" people. Like one of the church groups, or even James Dobson's group, or something. Plus FR. Hmm....
119 posted on 02/18/2004 10:40:50 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: AppauledAtAppeasementConservat
I say it's time to pray, and then whatever we can to serve Truth with a capital "T".

Man proposes, God disposes. If we stand up for the truth, then the result is up to Him. We just have to be on the right side.
120 posted on 02/18/2004 10:47:24 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: sfRummygirl
What definition of Abomination do you know that that the rest of us doesn't that seems to mean love to you exactly?
121 posted on 02/18/2004 10:48:26 PM PST by AppauledAtAppeasementConservat (An educated fool, in the end, is still a fool.)
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To: AppauledAtAppeasementConservat
I don't understand what you just asked me.
122 posted on 02/18/2004 10:50:06 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: sfRummygirl
Those are good points. If the Phelps character or others like him (are there others like him? Ick.) get involved, to promote themselves, that would be a bad idea. Let's think and see what we can come up with - maybe a lot of churches or other religious organizations would want to get involved. Or maybe others that aren't religious like Veterans' organizations, pro-life organizations, let me think. This is really what conservatives need - to get together not worrying about slight differences in the details, and put together a show of strength!
123 posted on 02/18/2004 10:50:50 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: little jeremiah
YES! That is exactly what I am thinking.
I will talk to my church on Sunday for starters. Maybe we should e-mail groups?
124 posted on 02/18/2004 10:52:33 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: little jeremiah
Well, I'm going to pack it in for the night soon. Good planning with you, and I will check in again tomorrow. God bless!
125 posted on 02/18/2004 10:56:16 PM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: Old Professer
"...sure there are some legal benefits that would accrue by virtue of the recognition of their marriage..."

Prof, as a 56 year old guy who was married (two times) for a total of 27 years, I have a slightly iconoclastic view of marriage and "homosexual marriage."

I believe that for the most part the men instigated marriage into their relationships with women in order to get sex and to keep their women to themselves.

I believe that starting with my generation women instigated marriage into their relationships with men in order to accomplish their maternal instinct and acquire financial security provided to them by either their husband or the courts. Since this time men are much less eager to get married...after all the sex is available and there is no committment or as many consequences (legally speaking).

I think that the homosexuals are at least one or two generations behind heterosexuals with regard to marriage. I believe that if this "homosexual marriage" thing takes hold, those poor fools will be sooooo sorry.

Today neither party in a homosexual couple can push the other to marry ('cause it ain't legal). Under the new paradiagm one party or the other will start to push and of course the other will give in for the sex. Later there will be the much more lasting state of "homosexual divorce." The term "gay" may die there...nothing like a divorce and spousal support and community property settlements and perhaps even child support to take the gay right out of being "gay."

All I can say is the homosexuals ought to be careful what the ask for because they might get it.

126 posted on 02/18/2004 11:03:59 PM PST by Positive
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To: little jeremiah
Or teachers who are opposed to homosexual indoctrination of the students could refuse to allow it to be taught, but I'm sure that would jeopardize some peoples' jobs.

Definitely would. The way I see it is if you alert the people (read here parents/teachers) to the problem BEFORE it catches hold you have a chance. I think the administration losing out on say even 100 kids in just one day would hurt them. Call it the anti-homosexual agenda day.

127 posted on 02/18/2004 11:31:35 PM PST by alexandria
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To: little jeremiah
Pray yes! And that I will do, but there is a way that God works in my life that I understand. I get the notions and then wait on the doors to open and close and it happened more times than not just like this and then both my wife get the answer by a sign. It happened that way with my marriage, my moving to the beach, my job and now this seems to be the next event. I'll know soon enough why I am being pushed towards this conclusion.

There isn't enough room here to explain all of these kinds of events in my life but here's one example - when my wife and I were younger and we were loosing everything because I lost my job and couldn't find enough work to make the house payment for 3 months. Because I had quietly felt that this was God's will I was convinced that no matter how hard I tried I couldn't stop it and finally told my wife that this must be God's will and she didn't want to hear it. We didn't know where to go or what to do but then the next day when I went to drop her off at work and we talked and prayed about it and she noticed a verse on the white van's front tag that was parked DIRECTLY in front of us and it said 2 Cor. 5:17 on it: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Now we new something was going on and speculated where were we to go? We prayed some more and she went into work and I was going to mine and in front of me was this dump truck and it had a sign on it that said "watch radio". I thought that was odd because how could you "watch radio" and it hit me to turn on the radio out of curiosity. The second I turned on that radio there was a seafood commerical on and it instantly gave me the answer we were to move to the beach. Two days later I had a huge paycheck and renter a uhaul truck called a real estate agent and to put a deposit on a house to rent and we were on our way. Everything changed for me since then. Good job and good friends and even more miracles after that like our buying our first house.

I can't explain it. But this notion about this country has been coming up in different ways since a couple of years ago and noone in my family even wants to hear it. And now I am convinced the confirmation is on it's way. It's serious enough that I and my wife are going to be discussing it tommorrow night in great detail and I know she is not wanting to her it either. She has to have proof by confirmation and events/signs and if she see's the same answer it will be confirmed for me.

Sorry for the long post. I am not even pentacostal either just an independant baptist and I wasn't taught to expect this kind of thing but that is what has happend to me since I was 19 years old and it started with knowing this girl I met at church was going to be my wife!
128 posted on 02/18/2004 11:33:21 PM PST by AppauledAtAppeasementConservat (An educated fool, in the end, is still a fool.)
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To: Positive
>>All I can say is the homosexuals ought to be careful what the ask for because they might get it.

Yep. Domestic Violence laws, for example, apply to "Domestic Partners".

Here in Kalifornia, if your partner gets a scratch, it is considered to be "corporal injury" and is a felony.

I don't think that's the kind of "Equality" the deviants were hoping for - LOL.
129 posted on 02/18/2004 11:39:14 PM PST by VxH (This species has amused itself to death.)
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To: sfRummygirl
Sorry I was referring to your post that said "This could get out of control, and bring too many of the "God Hates Fags" people."

Since Gays are an Abomination to God doesn't that imply he is disgusted and revolted by them? He destroyed Soddom and Ghomorrah plus a couple similar towns with fire and brimstone so I can't imagine he loved them too much. Maybe you meant people who believe this and that also believe that they should promote violence as a solution involved.

That I can understand.

It's late so forgive me if I misinterpret what you were saying.
130 posted on 02/18/2004 11:44:04 PM PST by AppauledAtAppeasementConservat (An educated fool, in the end, is still a fool.)
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To: sfRummygirl
Good night to you too. Let me know what plans start to manifest. I'll email a couple of people/groups too.
131 posted on 02/18/2004 11:50:19 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: Positive
The real reasons homosexual activists have pushed for "gay" marriage are best said in their own words. What follows are a few quotes from well-known homosexual spokespeople, and the reasons are not because they are interested in the state of holy matrimony.

"Homosexual activist Michelangelo Signorile, who writes periodically for The New York Times, summarizes the agenda in OUT magazine (Dec/Jan 1994):

"A middle ground might be to fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society's moral codes, but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution... The most subversive action lesbian and gay men can undertake --and one that would perhaps benefit all of society--is to transform the notion of family entirely."

"Its the final tool with which to dismantle all sodomy statues, get education about homosexuality and AIDS into the public schools and in short to usher in a sea change in how society views and treats us."

Chris Crain, the editor of the Washington Blade has stated that all homosexual activists should fight for the legalization of same-sex marriage as a way of gaining passage of federal anti-discrimination laws that will provide homosexuals with federal protection for their chosen lifestyle.

Crain writes: "...any leader of any gay rights organization who is not prepared to throw the bulk of their efforts right now into the fight for marriage is squandering resources and doesn't deserve the position." (Washington Blade, August, 2003).

Andrew Sullivan, a homosexual activist writing in his book, Virtually Normal, says that once same-sex marriage is legalized, heterosexuals will have to develop a greater "understanding of the need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman." He notes: "The truth is, homosexuals are not entirely normal; and to flatten their varied and complicated lives into a single, moralistic model is to miss what is essential and exhilarating about their otherness." (Sullivan, Virtually Normal, pp. 202-203)

Paula Ettelbrick, a law professor and homosexual activist has said: "Being queer is more than setting up house, sleeping with a person of the same gender, and seeking state approval for doing so. . Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex, sexuality, and family; and in the process, transforming the very fabric of society. . We must keep our eyes on the goals of providing true alternatives to marriage and of radically reordering society's view of reality." (partially quoted in "Beyond Gay Marriage," Stanley Kurtz, The Weekly Standard, August 4, 2003)

Evan Wolfson has stated: "Isn't having the law pretend that there is only one family model that works (let alone exists) a lie? . marriage is not just about procreation-indeed is not necessarily about procreation at all. "(quoted in "What Marriage Is For," by Maggie Gallagher, The Weekly Standard, August 11, 2003)

Mitchel Raphael, editor of the Canadian homosexual magazine Fab, says: "Ambiguity is a good word for the feeling among gays about marriage. I'd be for marriage if I thought gay people would challenge and change the institution and not buy into the traditional meaning of 'till death do us part' and monogamy forever. We should be Oscar Wildes and not like everyone else watching the play." (quoted in "Now Free To Marry, Canada's Gays Say, 'Do I?'" by Clifford Krauss, The New York Times, August 31, 2003)

1972 Gay Rights Platform Demands: "Repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit."
[At that same conference and also in the list of demands was the elimination of all age of consent laws.]

132 posted on 02/18/2004 11:58:43 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: little jeremiah
We all need to call our congressmen and ask that they start impeaching judges. I spoke to Az. Congressman J.D. Hayworth about it this evening, I asked him what it would take to get congress to start impeaching judges. He said some of them are looking at addressing judicial activism, but he didn't give me an answer on impeachment of judges, I told him now is the time to start. He did agree that it would be a good idea to call congressmen, and ask for impeachment of some judges.
133 posted on 02/19/2004 12:02:55 AM PST by c-b 1
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To: AppauledAtAppeasementConservat
This is my deeply held understanding: God loves every living being. Just as a loving father or mother loves every child, even the wayward ones. In fact, there are often cases of a loving parent keeping the photo of a daughter or son who "went bad" and left the family decades ago. A loving parent NEVER gives up on even the worst child. They always hope in their heart of hearts that the lost child will return, and become a good member of the family again.

Similarly, no matter how fallen any soul becomes, God's love is never broken. BUT - that doesn't mean that He is pleased with such a person. He can be extremely displeased. Just like a parent may have to punish a bad child - or even kick them out of the house if they become a thief or a drug addict. But there is love in the punishment. Remember the story of the Prodigal Son. We are all prodigal sons. But God wants us to come home, each and every one of us. That's where we belong.

What we need to do is accept that love, and learn to love Him back. And that means accepting that HE is God, and we are not, and following His rules is the beginning of the path.
134 posted on 02/19/2004 12:04:27 AM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: c-b 1
That's a very good suggestion. Every one of us who is serious about this impasse needs to get in touch with elected representatives. Do you think getting the ball rolling on impeaching judges should start with federal judges or state? What kind of judges should be the first to go?

Great idea. Congress should be deluged with personal letters and phone calls. And state reps similarly about out of control state judges.
135 posted on 02/19/2004 12:07:29 AM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: little jeremiah
I don't disagree with you just merely pointing out that it is understandable why some Christians feel that homosexuality is one sin that doesn't get many chances historically from a Biblical sense at least and his punishments for them have not been chastizing in a loving sense. They were utterly destroyed and cut off from his mercy in Soddom & G. Not to say that there is no hope for them but it is certainly one sin that mightily provokes his wrath and that alone should be good enough motivation to seek his forgiveness.
136 posted on 02/19/2004 12:45:44 AM PST by AppauledAtAppeasementConservat (An educated fool, in the end, is still a fool.)
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To: VxH
Oh ... I never realized. I got the impression (seeing what happened to the leftovers after "communion") that Lutherans had a different interpretation of "is" than Catholics.

My apologies.


A lot depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Ask the homosexuals who point to the FACT that heterosexual marriages don't last, heterosexual partners fully expect to enjoy non-procreative sex unless and until they are specifically Planning a child (at which point they can avail themselves of artificial reproduction, just like homos do), and heteros often end up with kids they don't want and don't care for ... unlike homosexuals who go to great lengths to procure and/or manufacture the children they want.

It's not so much that they want the public recognition of their union ... homosexuals have been getting "married" for years and -- like heterosexuals -- the bigger the hoo-hah over having and exeucting a wedding, the less likely it is to last.

They just want the "get out of legal fees free" card that is the marriage certificate where settling property and parenting issues and trumping the claims of Family members.

And who can blame them? That's about all marriage is these days in the hetero realm. A lifestyle choice and a remarkably unsuccessful one at that.

Why? Because -- like homos -- heteros have seated the union strictly between the two spouses instead of recognizing that marriage is the covenant on which Family is based.

It's Family that is the basic unit of society and the prime human condition. Having made children an option -- at best -- of conjugual union, heteros have no business pretending they've some exclusive claim to marriage given the Family Planning mindset.

137 posted on 02/19/2004 7:50:41 AM PST by Askel5
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To: little jeremiah
The American Child After Same-Sex Marriage
138 posted on 02/19/2004 7:59:23 AM PST by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: little jeremiah
The American Child After Same-Sex Marriage
139 posted on 02/19/2004 7:59:34 AM PST by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: Askel5
>>Ask the homosexuals who point to the FACT that heterosexual marriages don't last,

Again, the poison of subjectivity.

I'm not interested in what homosexuals think.

The Word of God does not require their input.
140 posted on 02/19/2004 8:56:38 AM PST by VxH (This species has amused itself to death.)
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To: VxH
Correction:

subjectivity=subjectivism
141 posted on 02/19/2004 9:01:50 AM PST by VxH (This species has amused itself to death.)
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To: little jeremiah


Andrew Sullivan, a homosexual activist writing in his book, Virtually Normal, says that once same-sex marriage is legalized, heterosexuals will have to develop a greater "understanding of the
need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman." He notes: "The truth is, homosexuals are not entirely normal; and to flatten their varied and complicated
lives into a single, moralistic model is to miss what is essential and exhilarating about their otherness."



Oh, God. I knew it. What a mess. Or rather, 'metrosexual'.
142 posted on 02/19/2004 10:29:56 AM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: little jeremiah
Thank you for replying to this, you took the words right out of my mouth!
143 posted on 02/19/2004 10:31:06 AM PST by sfRummygirl (www.peroutka2004.com.)
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To: little jeremiah
Has a study ever been done to determine what percentage of those who self identify as homosexual
suffered a traumatic experience, physical, emotional, or sexual abuse in their childhood?

This study would be strictly PC verboten, but should be done.
144 posted on 02/19/2004 10:31:49 AM PST by MrB
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
In recent years I have been turned off by so many shows that I had previously enjoyed. The insertion of the gay agenda in any form makes me turn off and tune out permanently. What I have not done and will now do is let my feelings be known by contacting the station and more importantly, the sponsers. Being a 'silent martyr' in these situations does nothing to help turn things around. It's time for us to become as militant as the gays are (within the law) and get OUR points across.
145 posted on 02/19/2004 11:50:49 AM PST by mrtysmm
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To: little jeremiah
Let's keep in mind the expansion of the legal issues which will eventually explode. The survival rate for hetero marriages is an alarming 50% plus. We can only guess what the disolution rate for gay marriages would be. This will put an unbelievable burden on the courts which are already heavily burdened with frivolous law suits. When and if Mass. and SF marriages are declared null and void there will be an explosion of legal issues. If these marriages are left to stand, just imagine the legal problems created when states refuse to recognise these marriages. We have no idea what a pandora's box is being opened.
146 posted on 02/19/2004 12:02:12 PM PST by mrtysmm
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To: AppauledAtAppeasementConservat
It's time to move on and leave this country....a line has been crossed... It's time to pack up and let God send forth his destruction upon this wicked nation and it's purveyers of filth and wickednes...

You're probably right. I've had such thoughts many times. Any suggestions on where to go?

147 posted on 02/19/2004 1:02:13 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: MrB
You are spot on. Check with the Homosexual Archives - scripter has done a Herculean job collecting information, organizing it according to topic and date. I'll put a link up to it later, I'm super busy right now. Or you can find it easily by doing a search on "scripter", going to his profie page, and linking there.

It is proven already that a large percentage of homosexuals - both male and female - come from very dysfunctional families, broken homes, and were molested or seduced by older homosexuals at a young age, and in the case of women, often molested by men.

Very sad.
148 posted on 02/19/2004 1:09:22 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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Comment #149 Removed by Moderator

To: proudpatriot2112
Appreciate your thoughts; I am actually not attempting here to convert active homosexuals. There are wonderful organizations that offer reparative therapy of various kinds, faith based and non faith based, to help homosexuals change their lives, if they so wish.

My main goal here is to help people who are NOT homosexual wake up and realize the dangers of not only the homosexual way of life, but the greater danger to society in general if the homosexual activists continue to have their way with the laws, the schools, and the media. People who have succumbed to the homosexual way of life need to first realize that their way of life is wrong and causing them great danger, then they may want to change.

Personally, some people might not call me a "Christian" - depends on how people define that. I am not trying here or anywhere to convert people to any particular sect or form of religion. But I do know that if secularism and the atheism which is its heart becomes the state religion (it practically is now) civilization as we know it is going to go to hell, and anarchy, followed by totalitarianism, will follow.

Love and condemnation are not necessarily different. If you are a parent, or if you can imagine being one, sometimes - if you love your child, you must yell, or punish. You've heard of "tough love". Everyone, whether homosexual or not, needs to hear the truth. And sometimes, the truth hurts. But it hurts good. It does no good to homosexuals or anyone to make them feel comfortable in their lies and in their sin.

Jesus loved the money changers as he whipped them. He did not do that act out of hatred. Not that I am advocating going around whipping anyone, but the principle is that to serve Jesus and serve truth one needs to have the strength to tell the truth, forcefully when necessary.
150 posted on 02/19/2004 4:33:27 PM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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