Evolution Critics Are Under Fire For Flaws in 'Intelligent Design'

Wall Street Journal ^ | Feb 13, 2004 | SHARON BEGLEY

[VadeRetro]

I'm sorry I simply can't seem to figure out a way to explain the problem with the geological column but I know that my science teacher was knowledgeable enough to know that you will not find it layered as such.

It is where I live, except that the column stops at about the Permian or earlier. (I live in some old mountains.) I have to wonder where your science teacher lived to have never seen a road cut with lots of layers.

[VadeRetro]

For that matter some "science" teachers have taught that toilet bowls flush one way in the Northern Hemisphere and the other way in the Southern Hemisphere.

Don't know if it works reliably for toilet bowls, but the coriolis effect sure works for cyclonic (or anticyclonic) storms.

[Dimensio]

I think that part of the problem here is a misunderstanding of the term "vestigal". A vestigal organ is not one that has absolutely no function, it is one with a function that is greatly diminished in importance than the same type of organ when found in other animals. "Legs" on whales and the coccyx on humans are greatly diminished in "functionality" than the same part on other animals, having diminished because over time they became less and less important to the survival of the species and as such they are correctly termed "vestigal".

[VadeRetro]

The back legs on whales were once thought to be legs but then through further study it was found that they are needed for mating. Their funtion was discovered so obviously we would want to stop teaching children that they are something when they are not.

But sometimes they're still legs. Also, shifts of function are an accepted part of evolution. Another instance would be the foreclaws of a tree shrew versus the wings of a bat. Same bones, new function.

[js1138]

bookmarking this excellent article

[Central Scrutiniser]

For that matter some "science" teachers have taught that toilet bowls flush one way in the Northern Hemisphere and the other way in the Southern Hemisphere.

Once, on a flight from LA to Lima, Peru, I went to the bathroom as we were transiting the equator. I flushed, wanting to see which way the water would flow. But, you know, them damned 767's and their suction toilets! FWIW, the water in the sink went straight down, but hardly a scientific laboratory!

[AmericanVictory]

Exactly, we used to think that tonsils were "useless" and "vestigial."

[js1138]

The answer given by the great thinkers is that God was doing the only thing that remains when you've got absolutely everything: God was engaging in play.

One way of putting it. I think of it as creating something that would have actual freedom -- that is capable of becoming something unknowable in advance. but of course that gets into the question of whether God is completely outside of time.

[js1138]

Perhaps the person hit by the blue ice might have noticed the spin.

[Virginia-American]

Experts on TTSS assert that the chicken came before the egg. The TTSS system is a stripped down version of a flagella

Really? Could you please provide a cite for this, I never heard it before.

[Central Scrutiniser]

I think it hit an alpaca. Pity, such gentle creatures...

[js1138]

My father has a picture of a condor taken form the window of an airliner flying over the andes. He did't know it was there when he took the picture.

[Central Scrutiniser]

I was looking out the window on landing once and brown liquid started spraying across the outside of the window. After a few nervous seconds, I realized it was the FA pouring coffee into the sink (going counter to the procedure issued days earlier) and it sprayed out along the side of the plane. We all went out to the ramp afterwards to access the brown streaks..

[PresbyRev]

"Evolution could have co-opted them when it was putting together . . . "

The author reveals in this sentence that he is simply positing the inexplicable and random process of evolution as a de facto designer. Evolution as creative process is itself a form of design if not intelligent design.

[qam1]

Type Ill genes are homologous to those of the flagellar export apparatus from which they probably evolved.

You making a mistake in terminology, "Flagellar Export Apparatus" is not the same thing as a Flagellum. The FEA is a method for transporting proteins from the cytoplasm to the outside of the cell that can be used for an outside structure and in the case of type III it's also used for excretion. It was given the name "Flagellar" because that's where it was first discovered. Kind of the way Prostaglandins even though they are made throughout the body they were named after the prostate because that's were they were first discovered. So just like you can have Prostaglandins not from the prostate you can have a Flagellar Export Apparatus without a Flagellum.

Actually by bringing up the FEA you are strengtening the case for Evolution because not only was their previous functions/uses for the proteins in the Flagellum their was actually a precursor system for setting them up.

[qam1]

(their = there)²

[kuma]

Yes but that is because those are much larger patterns of motion to work with but toilet flushing is more greatly influenced by the shape of the bowl or minute movements already within the water than by the coriolis effect.

[kuma]

Yes but that is because those are much larger patterns of motion to work with but toilet flushing is more greatly influenced by the shape of the bowl or minute movements already within the water than by the coriolis effect.

I'm just trying to give examples of bad science that has been found in textbooks. At the least textbook manufacturers should have to issue updates/corrections within mini-booklets that could be distributed to the teachers.

[kuma]

I think the misunderstanding is that these are criticisms that have been leveled at the inaccuracy of textbooks from all views within evolution.

I would state though that mating is a pretty big part of survival of whales and that those are not legs that became less useful overtime but are crucial to the mating process. I don't see how that could be considered "vestigial". I simply see it as they thought they were legs but with more careful observation they found out they weren't.

It is perfectly alright to be a scientist and find out with further study that you were wrong. This is just like everything else concerning education in America, it's all about egos and nothing to do with learning.

[kuma]

I would look at that differently. I think the primary function is for mating as that is awfully important for a successful species. If they ever use them in another way whatsoever, that would be secondary and not something leftover.

I'm not trying to join any debate team here, I'm just pointing out that these folks are not doing science any favor by opposing corrections that need to be made to school textbooks.