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Vigilantes targeting Mexican military
Tucson Citizen ^ | 14 February 2004 | Luke Turf

Posted on 02/14/2004 10:55:45 AM PST by JackelopeBreeder

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:38:07 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: JackelopeBreeder
So what happens when an "incident" happens. Is the owner supposed to scread their gun and destroy all ammo from the same batch?
51 posted on 02/14/2004 1:00:34 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Our local sheriff has finally had a gut full and is now forming his own group of volunteers.

Good man. I wish them well.

Is he getting fair treatment in the local press?

52 posted on 02/14/2004 2:32:55 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: judgeandjury
I believe at least a few Americans have already contacted the White House in regard to defending our borders. But no response has been issued by the President on the subject thus far.

Sure he has. Bush has given us his grand we-can't-call-it-amnesty plan.

***an ex-Republican base voter***

53 posted on 02/14/2004 2:37:27 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: MineralMan
The next time a Mexican soldier sets foot on the small chunk of border property owned by a Ranch Rescue member group,

Why do you say he's an idiot? Have we completely given up our property rights now? If the Mexican military decides to use your property for whatever reason --- drug smuggling being the most common reason they would ---- you are to turn over your property to them?

54 posted on 02/14/2004 2:40:43 PM PST by FITZ
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"Vigilantes?" "Senior, did you say vigilantes?" How about 'Civilians Rallying Against Corruption' (or homelanders defending against government CRAP)?
55 posted on 02/14/2004 2:42:07 PM PST by hardhead ("Curly, if you say its a fine morning, I'll shoot you." John Wayne, 'McLintock, 1963')
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To: demlosers
I would guess the governors of border states would do something first, like use the national guard.

I don't live in a border state so correct me if I'm wrong but I never hear of border state governors taking a stand against the illegals crashing the border. Some even seem to be in pander mode, for votes I guess.

I do hear them asking for taxpayer money to offset the medical, education, crime, clean up and social program costs the illegals cause the states to incur.

56 posted on 02/14/2004 2:47:15 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: MineralMan
You want our borders defended? Send a letter to Bush. He's in charge of the military.

Bush isn't in control over the Mexican excursions into the USA and they are becoming more bold. Fox is testing Bush --- he's seeing what he can get by with and for now he knows he can get by with a lot. I think Bush would have Americans let the Mexicans build their army bases on that land just to keep "positive" relations. We seem intent on keeping the corrupt elites over there in power no matter what the cost.

57 posted on 02/14/2004 2:48:34 PM PST by FITZ
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To: JoeFromSidney
Strange, isn't it, that THEIR crossing the border doesn't cause an international incident or hinder relations with the US.

It's strange too that the Mexican government has it's military crawling all over the border, but Bush is too afraid of that government's reaction to put our military on the border to get them to back down. There are Mexican army guys all over the place --- and it's hard to know all what that's about.

58 posted on 02/14/2004 2:51:54 PM PST by FITZ
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To: swampfox98
bttt
59 posted on 02/14/2004 2:55:18 PM PST by Lady Eileen
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To: judgeandjury
bttt
60 posted on 02/14/2004 2:58:47 PM PST by Lady Eileen
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To: JackelopeBreeder
How about a flight of Warthogs on ready standby to help these folks out a bit?
61 posted on 02/14/2004 3:16:59 PM PST by Redleg Duke (tStir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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Comment #62 Removed by Moderator

To: Gallegos
Actually, the military is here, just not used. Fort Huachuca is a good sized post and only about eight miles north of the border. Illegal aliens and drug smugglers cross through the post on a regular basis.

The funniest recent incident was on Easter Sunday of last year. A group of 55 smugglers with 2200 pounds of weed in backpacks went the entire length of the post before getting caught at its northern boundary. The funny part was that an official government spokesman tried to claim there were only 11 smugglers. Never mind the impossibility of this 11 carrying 200 pounds of weed apiece over the Huachuca Mountains then across the entire fort.
63 posted on 02/14/2004 4:21:24 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: Missouri; JackelopeBreeder; Jim Robinson
I read the thread "Sheriff concerned about violence, plans volunteer patrol".

Nothing in the news article was over the line, so I guess it was the references to claymores and other forms of firepower being used by citizens at the border that got the thread locked but not pulled. Sort of a middle-ground action by the Mods.

Well, if the border was effectively sealed there would be no reason for inflamed rhetoric to get out of hand on these threads.

This is JimRob's house, I respect that. Jim's probably going to support Bush no matter what, it seems, for reasons he's expressed: I respect that too.

But keep in mind, folks, that Jim's respecting us, too, by not aggressively banning people or in other ways censoring those of us that are emotionally posting our views on these immigration or other important policy threads.
65 posted on 02/14/2004 5:04:33 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
I expect additional duties will follow, particularly in the Naco Corridor. As of 31 January, illegal alien traffic was up 114% over the same time last year. I also expect the Mexican government to scream like a stuck pig if Sheriff Dever starts handing out badges...

I'm waiting until Dever hands out the badges and deputizes some of us. I'm not going to play "militia" and put on a silly uniform and call some self-appointed dude "General". Ranch Rescue's heart is in the right place, but they're going about it all wrong and things will not go well for them. Additionally, I fear their over-the-top rhetoric and silly uniforms and ranks are going to hurt the border security/immigration reform movement.

66 posted on 02/14/2004 5:20:04 PM PST by Spiff (Have you committed a random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: Gallegos
If the government won't help these people, these people have every right to use force.

I agree. The big question is WHY won't the government help American citizens who are forced to protect their property?. I always thought the main purpose of the government was to protect its citizens.

67 posted on 02/14/2004 5:20:22 PM PST by janetgreen (PRESIDENT BUSH: PROTECT AMERICA'S BORDERS!!)
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To: citizen
Nothing in the news article was over the line, so I guess it was the references to claymores and other forms of firepower being used by citizens at the border that got the thread locked but not pulled. Sort of a middle-ground action by the Mods.

Sometimes that crap is intentionally added to a thread to get it deleted. The open borders mafia is talented at that kind of thing.

68 posted on 02/14/2004 5:23:02 PM PST by Spiff (Have you committed a random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: Missouri
If our federal government showed Mexico a little military streagth in defending our borders, we'd have peace in Cochise County.

Applauding!

69 posted on 02/14/2004 5:23:54 PM PST by janetgreen (PRESIDENT BUSH: PROTECT AMERICA'S BORDERS!!)
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To: judgeandjury
Oh he responded...with an amnesty proposal.
70 posted on 02/14/2004 5:33:27 PM PST by abigailsmybaby
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To: Maynard G. Krebbs
...work...WORK!
71 posted on 02/14/2004 5:44:38 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"Two in the chest and one in the head,"

He should not have said that at all. If it's self defense, just fire and keep your trap shut. A better comment would be "We'll do what we have to do".

72 posted on 02/14/2004 5:47:41 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("LET'S GO RED WINGS!!!!")
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To: Spiff
Yeah, that could be.

I think the FR Mods and FReepers are too savvy to let some moles do that without their getting noticed and then being tossed.
73 posted on 02/14/2004 5:56:26 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
The Border Patrol will not see any reinforcements in manpower or equipment. Dubya's FY 2005 budget proposal cuts their funding by $130 million.

Are you sure about this? I don't know about the Border Patrol specifically, but the Customs and Border Protection bureau of which they are a part had a budget increase of $223 million requested for FY 05. I take that figure from Department of Homeland Security budget in brief (on page 67 of the PDF file). Could the Border Patrol cut be rearranging things on paper as part of the new organization in the Homeland Security department?

74 posted on 02/14/2004 6:00:54 PM PST by AzJohn
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To: Spiff
I have to agree his rhetoric goes over the top frequently, but I think in this instance he did it intentionally as a warning to the Mexican military. Note that attempts were made to contact their higher command. That means the local consul is well aware of the situation, but can't speak out. I'd bet old Escobar put Ray Borane up to being spokesman.
75 posted on 02/14/2004 6:10:11 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: DumpsterDiver
Maybe he was out sick that day and missed the second S class?
76 posted on 02/14/2004 6:16:58 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: AzJohn
That's where the $130M went -- away from actual enforcement at the border and into infrastructure and "some" interior enforcement.
77 posted on 02/14/2004 6:24:07 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: steplock
You know, given the right set of circumstances, I could easily see 50,000 "deer hunters" from across the USA answering a call for help from those property owners. And if the 50,000 couldn't handle it, more would come.
78 posted on 02/14/2004 6:30:51 PM PST by nygoose
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Comment #79 Removed by Moderator

To: JackelopeBreeder
That's where the $130M went -- away from actual enforcement at the border and into infrastructure and "some" interior enforcement.

That budget document I linked in #74 does say they are asking for $64 million to deploy more sensors along the border and $10 million for unmanned aerial vehicles, which seem like good things. But pulling agents away from border enforcement, if that's what they are doing, seems really dumb politically quite apart from the merits of it. Weakening our border enforcement would only increase people's doubts about a guest worker program.

80 posted on 02/14/2004 7:13:09 PM PST by AzJohn
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To: nygoose
You know, given the right set of circumstances, I could easily see 50,000 "deer hunters"...

Strange you should mention that. We are starting to have a problem with hunters here -- specifically mountain lions and black bears. We have so many illegal aliens passing through their habitat that they are losing all fear of man.

In the last six months I have found several bed down sites that showed unmistakable signs of rapid abandonment and plenty of bear or lion tracks. Somewhere in this country there are some illegals who can chant "Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!" and mean it.

I spent about 12 hours this week trying to track down a mountain lion who has taken up housekeeping on one of the most popular illegal alien trails. Judging from his tracks he's an old male, probably forced out of his territory by the younger ones. I don't think it will take him long to figure out that two-legged prey is easier than four-legged.

Not that I'm overly solicitous about the safety and welfare of illegals or drug smugglers, but I spend a lot of time in that area and I'm not sure I like being considered The Other White Meat.

81 posted on 02/14/2004 7:15:59 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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To: MineralMan
I agree. He is an idiot for wanting to shoot at the Mexican military.

In this situation, claymores would do a much better job.
82 posted on 02/14/2004 7:38:50 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Democrats want to ban sex with animals!)
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To: Reelect President Dubya
Only when I feel like it. I'm not in favor of loose cannons especially when they might have government license unlike these guys who are regular citizens (who really need to put down the SOF and brush up on PR methods).
83 posted on 02/14/2004 9:22:38 PM PST by junta
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To: FITZ
They call them idiots because people love bashing immigrants from the safety of their keyboards...

if you had these mejis crossing your property daily, you would take it up a notch too!
84 posted on 02/15/2004 12:05:55 AM PST by BurbankKarl
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To: VeniVidiVici
I was wondering why they didnt boobytrap the house!

85 posted on 02/15/2004 12:07:40 AM PST by BurbankKarl
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Isn't it interesting how nature works?
86 posted on 02/15/2004 2:48:44 AM PST by nygoose
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To: nygoose
bttt
87 posted on 02/15/2004 6:18:26 AM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: junta
Only when I feel like it. I'm not in favor of loose cannons especially when they might have government license unlike these guys who are regular citizens (who really need to put down the SOF and brush up on PR methods).

My point was that this IDIOT has a big mouth that is going to get him and his buddies killed and the government will make it look like it was his fault, which it will be.

If he and his cohorts are going to do what they say they are going to do, they should SHOOT, SHOVEL AND SHUT UP.

T he fact that he likes to talk so much makes me suspect that is about all he knows how to do.

88 posted on 02/15/2004 9:20:02 AM PST by Reelect President Dubya (Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
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To: Reelect President Dubya
I agree.
89 posted on 02/15/2004 9:38:16 AM PST by junta
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To: JackelopeBreeder
"Mexican drug smugglers. Mexican army. Pretty much the same thing. We're in a border war," he said.

That about sums it up.

90 posted on 02/15/2004 5:36:42 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: MineralMan
We have a military.(Overseas.)

We have law enforcement agencies. Yes, we certainly have plenty of ATF, IRS, EPA etc officials. Enough to perform rectal exams on real Americans 24/7/365. But not enough to man the INS or the BP, evidently.

Theirs is the responsibility to defend our borders, not a bunch of trigger-happy "patriots."You should read about the 2nd amd some time. I recall "trigger happy patriots" fired the "shot heard 'round the world" 200+ years ago. And "patriot" was not a term of derision then, the way you put it today.

You want our borders defended? Send a letter to Bush. He's in charge of the military.ROTFLMAO. You are really a card.

91 posted on 02/15/2004 5:46:08 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
According to the Arizona Revised Statutes, trespassing alone does not justify use of deadly force.

Actually, Section 13 of the ARS does allow the use of deadly force in the case of a Class B felony. Trespassing while armed can be construed as aggravated burglary, which is a Class B felony....

Next?

92 posted on 02/16/2004 6:49:33 AM PST by HiJinx (Darned Presstitutes!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
The men are gathered near an abandoned house Simcox said is commonly used as a staging area for illegal entries into the United States. Several of the men approach the barbed-wire border fence, then return to their Humvee.

Torch it.
93 posted on 02/16/2004 12:45:55 PM PST by adam_az (Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting weftists.)
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Article IV, Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion...

Failure to fulfill contractual obligations.... hmmmm... What can we do instead? Read the fine print:

Article I, Section 10. ...No state shall, without the consent of Congress... engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

The "actually invaded" condition has been fulfilled.

94 posted on 02/16/2004 1:04:06 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: All
Article IV, Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion...

Failure to fulfill contractual obligations.... hmmmm... What can we do instead? Read the fine print:

Article I, Section 10. ...No state shall, without the consent of Congress... engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

The "actually invaded" condition has been fulfilled.

95 posted on 02/16/2004 1:04:40 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: JackelopeBreeder
does the ping "ALL" actually not ping anybody? or did everybody really decide that I had the last word in post 95? (which was not my intention at all)
96 posted on 02/16/2004 4:26:57 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: Spiff
Ranch Rescue's heart is in the right place, but they're going about it all wrong and things will not go well for them. Additionally, I fear their over-the-top rhetoric and silly uniforms and ranks are going to hurt the border security/immigration reform movement.

Agreed. The battle is more about PR and embarassing politicians into actually enforcing the law, not about boasting about gunning for people.

97 posted on 02/16/2004 4:32:10 PM PST by dirtboy (John Kerry - talking out both ends of the horse since 1970...)
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To: Rytwyng
does the ping "ALL" actually not ping anybody?

I don't believe that it pings anyone (unless someone here actually has registered with the screen name of All).

or did everybody really decide that I had the last word in post 95?

Yes, you have had the last word. ;^) (only kidding)

(which was not my intention at all)

Maybe I'm the first one to see your post.

98 posted on 02/16/2004 4:37:14 PM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: JackelopeBreeder; keri; international american; Kay Soze; jpsb; hershey; TomInNJ; dagnabbit; ...

"The next time a Mexican soldier sets foot on the small chunk of border property owned by a Ranch Rescue member group, members plan to open fire, their leader said."

Mexican Standoff ping . .

99 posted on 02/16/2004 7:06:02 PM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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To: citizen
LOL! You remember!?
100 posted on 02/17/2004 6:25:23 PM PST by abigailsmybaby (I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam.)
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