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Mesopotamian Climate Change (8,000 Years Ago)
Geo Times ^ | 2-15-2004

Posted on 02/15/2004 11:18:28 AM PST by blam

Mesopotamian climate change

Geoscientists are increasingly exploring an interesting trend: Climate change has been affecting human society for thousands of years. At the American Geophysical Union annual meeting in December, one archaeologist presented research that suggests that climate change affected the way cultures developed and collapsed in the cradle of civilization — ancient Mesopotamia — more than 8,000 years ago.

Archaeologists have found evidence for a mass migration from the more temperate northern Mesopotamia to the arid southern region around 6400 B.C. For the previous 1,000 years, people had been cultivating the arable land in northern Mesopotamia, using natural rainwater to supply their crops. So archaeologists have long wondered why the ancient people moved from an area where they could easily farm to begin a much harder life in the south. “The challenge to us as paleoclimatologists is to develop much more detailed and well-dated records.” -Peter deMenocal, Columbia University

One reason could be climate, said Harvey Weiss, an archaeologist at Yale University, at the meeting in December. The climate record in ancient Mesopotamia and around the world shows an abrupt climate change event in 6400 B.C., about 8,200 radiocarbon years before present. A period of immense cooling and drought persisted for the next 200 to 300 years.

When the severe drought and cooling hit the region, there was no longer enough rainwater to sustain the agriculture in the north, Weiss says. And irrigation was not possible due to the topography, so these populations were left with two subsistence alternatives: pastoral nomadism or migration.

Archaeologists first start seeing evidence of settlements in southern Mesopotamia shortly after 6400 B.C. In the south, an area too arid to have sustained rain-fed agriculture, irrigation from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers would have been possible where the rivers flow at plain level, Weiss says. Irrigation farming took three to four times the labor effort of rain-fed farming, but irrigation agriculture would have made surplus production easier because the yield was double that of rain-fed agriculture. Surplus production meant that people could begin specializing in full-time crafts rather than relying exclusively on farming, Weiss says, thus giving rise to the first class-based society and the first cities.

"It's perhaps too extreme to say that climate change caused all of the advanced society collapses," says Peter deMenocal, a paleoceanographer at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. "But it's also too extreme to say that climate change has had no effect. The challenge to us as paleoclimatologists is to develop much more detailed and well-dated records," he says.

The most fundamental question in Mesopotamian archaeology, Weiss concludes, "is, 'why is there a Mesopotamian archaeology?'" Having already tied the Early Bronze Age collapses from the Aegean to the Indus to the abrupt climate change event 4,200 years before present, Weiss believes he can now tie the changes of lifestyle and migration that were essential for early class formation and urban life in Mesopotamia to an abrupt, multi-century shift toward drier conditions which occurred near 8,200 years before present.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; astronomy; baillie; bolide; catastrophism; change; climate; climatechange; clube; comet; economic; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; impact; levy; maunderminimum; medieval; mesopotamian; mikebaillie; napier; pleistocene; shoemaker; solarflares; stalactites; stalagmites; velikovsky; youngerdryas
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1 posted on 02/15/2004 11:18:28 AM PST by blam
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To: farmfriend; RightWhale
Ping. When did the huge fresh water lakes in North America collapse?
2 posted on 02/15/2004 11:19:38 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Scientists have located the cause:
3 posted on 02/15/2004 11:26:27 AM PST by BenLurkin (Socialism is Slavery)
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To: blam
Accoring to Bill Bryson per his book A Short History of Nearly Everything, the planet is in a long term ice age. The ice age is punctuated by periodic warming periods that last around 8,000 years each or so. We are in a periodic warming period, that has been around for about 10,000 years or so, precisely the period when civilization emerged, and it is overdue to end. When it ends, it will snow a lot in Fairhope, and the ice will be back in Iowa, a thousand feet thick, and almost cliff like where it ends. Thus, Al Gore is worried about planetary temperatures perhaps rightly, but perhaps also in the wrong direction.

And there you have it.

PS: By the way, the planet had a billion years where there was no ice on the planet, anywhere, and then another billion years thereafter where it was all ice, 100% ice. The thinking is that the billion year cold snap ended when some massive volcanic eruptions happened, recreating an atmosphere, and jump starting the greenhouse effect. Ain't that interesting?

4 posted on 02/15/2004 11:41:40 AM PST by Torie
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To: blam
The last ice age peaked 25,000 years ago. Since then the habitable reasons have continued to change. North Africa was much more livable; we can assume it was more heavily populated, in relative terms, than now. The Bible's diaspora is probably the retelling of a huge migration that occurred out of North Africa and the Middle East, as the climate changed. That could have happened quickly, and caused large shifts of population by boat and land from the Mediterranean to as far as East Asia and the Americas.

People as separated as the Japanese Ainu and Basques may share common Mediterranean roots and have become separated as a result of the post-ice age climate change.

We know that several waves of immigrants reached the Americas pre-Columbus (excuse me, pre-Colon). So, they came because of population pressure, and may have come across both the Atlantic and Pacific.

The web is full of interesting speculation about this. One article talked about possible linguistic relationship between the central Mexican Indian language Nahuatl, still spoken now, and which was spoken by the Aztecs (related to several North American Indian languages, including Hopi, I think). The speculation is that there is a connection between it and ancient Egyptian. The clue to "seeing" this is to regard the "l", that Nahuatl inserts in many places, as something of a conjunctive or article. When those "l"s are removed, the correspondence between Nahuatl and old Egyptian morphemes improves (a lot). Without passing any judgment on the contention, it is very interesting to contemplate, and dovetails nicely with the idea that the North African culture was forced to emigrate.

So, yes, this article is talking about probable events. But the "big" story involves a larger timeframe and more of the world's population.
5 posted on 02/15/2004 11:42:47 AM PST by Tax Government
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To: blam
If there is ANY benefit to the absurd Global Warming scare, it will be that archaeologists have been forced to examine their dearest, closest held absurd beliefs. While there is currently no evidence for "Global Warming" the evidence is mounting that catastrophism had much to do with the ebb and flow of history.

Perhaps, when this is over, uniformitarianism will be blessedly dead and we can start understanding exactly what our ancestors experienced and the forces that molded them.
6 posted on 02/15/2004 11:43:55 AM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: blam
Fill me in would you please, 65 million years ago the earth was warm and TRex was walking around, when did the ice age or ice ages begin? How long did they last and are we still in one. Thanks. I'll google while waiting to here from you.
7 posted on 02/15/2004 11:58:44 AM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: BenLurkin
Yup... Just as I suspected: Time-travelling Republicans driving SUVs. That would explain all of the cuneiform Ws all over the walls and why the word "Haliburton" appears over and over again in the Code of Hammurabi.
8 posted on 02/15/2004 12:04:32 PM PST by Redcloak (This tagline is for external use only. Discontinue if a rash develops. Induce vomiting if swallowed.)
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To: Torie
"When it ends, it will snow a lot in Fairhope.

No!! Not in Fairhope? Fairhope is frequently at the top of the list of best places to live in the USA.

Fairhope

9 posted on 02/15/2004 12:06:49 PM PST by blam
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To: Tax Government
"So, yes, this article is talking about probable events. But the "big" story involves a larger timeframe and more of the world's population."

Great overview, you do get it. There is a connection between the language of the Olmecs (Mexico) and the Chinese of the Shang Dynasty. It is written in Chinese records that at the time of the Shang Dynasty collapse (coinciding with a worldwide catastrophe recorded in the tree-rings in 1150's BC) that 250,000 Shang Chinese 'took to the sea.'

10 posted on 02/15/2004 12:12:48 PM PST by blam
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To: Swordmaker
"While there is currently no evidence for "Global Warming" the evidence is mounting that catastrophism had much to do with the ebb and flow of history."

Exactly. Below is a link to some good examples.(the tree rings recorded many things)

Did Asteroids And Comets Turn The Tides Of Civilization?

11 posted on 02/15/2004 12:19:58 PM PST by blam
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To: jpsb
"Fill me in would you please, 65 million years ago the earth was warm and TRex was walking around, when did the ice age or ice ages begin?"

Sorry, my interest lie in the history of humans. I don't do dinosaurs.

12 posted on 02/15/2004 12:22:28 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
This is a fascinating subject; thank you for posting the article.

Another article on FR recently discussed the ethnic evolution of China from a Chinese writer's perspective. The conclusions I remember are: 1) several thousand years BC there were Nordic Europeans in large numbers in China, and African-descended people also; 2) today's north Chinese population is a mostly a fusion of European and Mongol populations, and remains ethnically distinguishable from other populations in China.

The migrations could have been driven by climate change.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to spend 10 days in Beijing. I concluded their country is remarkably like the U.S. -- ethnically diverse, with remnants of the European and African contributions to the population still visible. The shared culture -- in the form of a wall, a border and a writing system, created unity. Like it does for U.S.

Thanks again for posting.
13 posted on 02/15/2004 12:31:02 PM PST by Tax Government
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To: blam
I found the info, I was looking for the 1 billion year ice age that Torie mentioned, that did not sound right. Three 50-100 million year ice ages, currently 4 millions years into another one. 20,000 years from last mini event peak and it could be we are heading for another mini peak, not Global warming but a deep freeze.
14 posted on 02/15/2004 12:45:44 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Tax Government
" I concluded their country is remarkably like the U.S. -- ethnically diverse, with remnants of the European and African contributions to the population still visible."

Yup. If you get the chance, read up on the Hakka, Xiongnu, Saka and the Yuezhi people

I love this stuff. Check out the thread linked below...especially my comment in post #30.

Kennewick Man Ruling - Politics Or Science

Then there's this: The Curse Of The Red Headed Mummy

15 posted on 02/15/2004 12:50:42 PM PST by blam
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To: jpsb
"it could be we are heading for another mini peak, not Global warming but a deep freeze."

I can remember in th 70's when that was the scare.

There's an interesting article in the Scientific American this month about 1/3rd of all living mass on the earth is underground in the bottom of the oceans...and has more impact on GW/climate than humans ever will.

16 posted on 02/15/2004 12:55:37 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Is that the methene gas bubble theory? I read one theory that claimed methene gas was responcible for the first great extintion.
17 posted on 02/15/2004 1:06:32 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: SunkenCiv
here's a ping-a-ling for you
18 posted on 02/15/2004 1:19:47 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: jpsb
"Is that the methene gas bubble theory? I read one theory that claimed methene gas was responcible for the first great extintion."

Partly but, it's a lot more than that.

19 posted on 02/15/2004 3:34:44 PM PST by blam
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To: jpsb
TRex did just fine in ice ages far colder than any man or cro-magnon man has ever experienced. TRex went down due to the asteriod that hit the Yucatan, along with most larger animal life on this planet. That is in Bryson's book too.
20 posted on 02/15/2004 3:47:42 PM PST by Torie
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To: Torie
Not expert by any means, but I don't think any ice ages occured 225-75 millon years ago. At least not on the super continent Panga. But I might (net very likely) be wrong.
21 posted on 02/15/2004 4:10:41 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; A.J.Armitage; abner; adam_az; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

22 posted on 02/15/2004 4:36:59 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: Battle Axe
I put you on the list after I pinged this thread so you get a special ping all to yourself.
23 posted on 02/15/2004 4:39:21 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: jpsb
I just read it in Bryson's book this morning actually.
24 posted on 02/15/2004 4:44:25 PM PST by Torie
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To: blam
That is streching it. The Chinese had a devloped culture at the time of the Shang Dynasty, don't look Olmec to me.
25 posted on 02/15/2004 4:48:22 PM PST by Little Bill (I can't take another rat in the White House at my age.)
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To: Little Bill
"That is streching it. The Chinese had a devloped culture at the time of the Shang Dynasty, don't look Olmec to me."

Hey, I don't make this stuff up.

A Link Between Chinese And Americam Cultures? The Olmec And The Shang

26 posted on 02/15/2004 4:56:18 PM PST by blam
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To: Torie
Many glacial advances and retreats have occurred during the last billion years of Earth history. These glaciations are not randomly distributed in time.Instead, they are concentrated into four time intervals. Large, important glaciations occurred during the late Proterozoic (between about800 and 600 million years ago), during the Pennsylvanian and Permian (between about 350 and 250 million years ago), and the late Neogene toQuaternary (the last 4 million years). Somewhat less extensive glaciations occurred during parts of the Ordovician and Silurian (between about 460 and 430 million years ago).

Dinosaurs were 225-65 million years ago.

27 posted on 02/15/2004 4:57:05 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: blam
Archaeologists have found evidence for a mass migration from the more temperate northern Mesopotamia to the arid southern region around 6400 B.C.

I wander if thousands of years from now scientists will attribute the mass migration of Mexicans, north to the USA, to climatic changes?

28 posted on 02/15/2004 4:59:20 PM PST by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: varon
"I wander if thousands of years from now scientists will attribute the mass migration of Mexicans, north to the USA, to climatic changes?"

Probably not but, they will probably ask why a once prosperous country collapsed after a 200 year meteoric rise from nothing.

29 posted on 02/15/2004 5:03:32 PM PST by blam
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To: jpsb
Three 50-100 million year ice ages, currently 4 millions years into another one. 20,000 years from last mini event peak and it could be we are heading for another mini peak, not Global warming but a deep freeze.

Google "Snowball Earth" for the grandaddy of all ice ages about 600-700 mya.

30 posted on 02/15/2004 5:25:01 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Bush Bot by choice)
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To: jpsb
Here is what Bryson wrote:

"No less intriguing are the known ranges of some late dinosaurs. The British geologist Stephen Drury notes that forests within 10 degrees latitude of the North Pole were home to great beasts, including Tyannosaurus rex. 'That is bizarre,' he writes, 'for such a high latitude is continually dark for three months of the year.' Moreover, there is now evidence that these high latitudes suffered severe winters. Oxygen isotope studies suggest that the climate around Fairbanks, Alaska, was about the same in the late Cretaceous period as it is now. So what was Tyrannosaurus doing there? Either it migrated seasonally over enormous distances or it spent much of the year in snowdrifts in the dark. In Australia - which at that time was more polar in its orientation - a retreat to warmer climes wasn't possible. How dinosaurs managed to survive in such conditions can only be guessed."

And there you have it.

31 posted on 02/15/2004 6:01:48 PM PST by Torie
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To: jpsb
I did blow it about the ice age though. I was just transfixed at how resilent T Rex was, in this case with cold. It was warm blooded, and a quite hyperactive and smart beast, folks think now, as I recall.
32 posted on 02/15/2004 6:06:42 PM PST by Torie
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To: blam
I think what you are looking for are the ice sheet collapses and subsequent drainage of Lake Agassiz and Lake Ojibway as the Canadian sheet over where Hudson bay is now located broke up and melted. There was a rush of flooding down the Mississippi and out the Hudson Straight. This is estimated to have occured in phases between 8,400 and 8,000 years before present.

I am taking the information from Stephen Oppenheimer's Eden in the East; The Drowned Continent of Southeast Asia.

Also of interest are the drastic geological changes which accompanied the massive weight distribution changes accompanying the melt of the ice sheets. It would seem to have direct relevance to this article.

33 posted on 02/15/2004 7:05:50 PM PST by JimSEA
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To: JimSEA
"Also of interest are the drastic geological changes which accompanied the massive weight distribution changes accompanying the melt of the ice sheets. It would seem to have direct relevance to this article."

I agree. There would have been enormous earthquakes and volcanos that are usually overlooked/missed in these articles...those events were disasters onto themselves. The north of England is still rising while the south is sinking...like a see-saw.

34 posted on 02/15/2004 7:17:42 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Hi Blam

You are becoming quite the resource data base : )

Am reminded of the USGS data for the Pacific ocean level rise.

12/11,500- 9,500 BP....hundreds of feet.

For sure a migration event..World wide.


To the Haida first Nations peoples of the Pacific Northwest the Raven is both helper and trickster.

An intersting story carried forward in their Mythology is when the Raven helped bring back the Moon and the Sun.

The Myth begins with a rather bizarre statement..

"In the beginning their was a time when the sky was gloom and shrouded in cloud....when Old man had taken the Moon away and put it in a box."

Raven eventually outwits Old Man and free's the Moon from the box..and lifts it up into the Sky...then the Sun appears.


Haida Gwaii.

After watching a documentary on the Haida was captivated by the regional name the Haida used..

Gwaii.

Hawaii comes to mind quickly here...the distance between Hawaii and the Queen Charolette's is staggering...and yet..the language hints of a connection.

Was there a common tounge long ago?

Are the Haida related to the Polynesians?

In a past post on Jade and its history of trade in the Pacific..one ponders if such commerce reality existed..and if so..was there a commerce language for transactions and record keeping.

When the Ocean levels rose...were many of these native peoples cut off from each other..the knowledge of connectiveness lost over millenia?

Unless habitations were fashioned in stone...the proof of their existence say circa 10,000 BP might not appear...ebbing away as the wood of their habitations decayed..their tools buried in the soil..or subducted below the rising Ocean.

Study of Pacific native legends are steeped in Moon lore....for a peoples who knew their sky intimately..why then the theme of a *Dissapearing Moon?

Certainly they understood cloud cover and fog..and seasonally periods of dense cloud do shroud the Pacific Northwesy coastlines and inland some...so why forward this bizarre theme..and match it to their Hero..the Raven? In a post many moons ago here at Grahams..forwarded a thread on Tiahuanaco.."The City of the Falling Moon"...the testimony of the Ancient ones who pre-ceeded the Inca.

Many of the Temples in Central America are connected to the Moon.... The Natives of the Continental U.S. still return to Ancient rock circles which go back thousands of years..to observe Lunar phases.

We know from USGS data that the Pacific ocean was hundreds of feet lower in the 12,000-9,500 bp period....places near Yonaguni in the Okinawan waters have caves with stalactites which drip from above ground ..or above water. These caves are now at great depths below the current Ocean levels..and a mystery...a hint that either the land fell..or the Ocean rose..or both.

Haida art has paralell theme designs to the Mayans..as seen in their Totem poles and other artwork.

The Haida also Tatooed themselves..some paralell seen in Polynesian cultures.

Several constructs exist for how the Ice age cycle was broken..and the rise of the Pacific ocean.

Native Mythology has kept many theme's connected to the Moon alive...

are we overlooking the Prime mover of the Ice age ending period... could this be the reason for the Global flood Mythology.

The Hebrew account states that vaults were opened below the Earth..and water errupted out in great volumes.

Could a Moon which had been drawn near the Earth and fragmented in the Gravity energy exchange....cause the Earths crust to fracture..and release water as per the Hebrew account.

The survival testimonies abound in Mythology...the Ancestors who escaped by climbing high mountains. A time when there was no Moon.

Just stories?


35 posted on 02/15/2004 7:30:57 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
Awesome picture of the whales.

I believe all the flood stories can be tied to the ice melt at the end of the Ice Age

About the missing moon, don't know. I'm reminded of stories by Dr Mike Baillie ( Did Asteroids And Comets Turn The Tides Of Civilization) he speaks of dust veils dimming the sun and blocking out the stars for years but, I don't recall any mention of the moon.

I red a book not to long ago, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders, by Dr Robert Schoch (Geologist/Geophysist) and he speculates that the origins of all the worlds pyramids come from the people who fled Sundaland as it went underwater at the end of the Ice Age.

Do you know how to fix the size of the page?

36 posted on 02/15/2004 7:55:04 PM PST by blam
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To: Light Speed
"Do you know how to fix the size of the page?"

Never mind. It posted okay, it was oversized on the review.

37 posted on 02/15/2004 7:57:00 PM PST by blam
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To: Mike Darancette
Wow, the Mother of all ice ages, fantastic. Thanks for the tip.
38 posted on 02/15/2004 8:55:03 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Torie
I've read that a few experts lean toward TRex being kindof warm blooded. If so it could survive old, it's body was certainly big enough to generate and maintain heat, but it would need hair or something to keep the heat from dissipating.
39 posted on 02/15/2004 9:00:08 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: blam
Hi B

Have chatted with Rob Schoch via mail...

Rob is smart..

John Anthony West is another fella with good perspective.

Should have posted Haida Gwaii on your *First Americans thread a few weeks back..which I was looking at while forming my post.

something for you from another chat board.... while we are discussing Pacific migration.

Paul Devereux: *Ancient Migrations to the Americas

Author:.......
Date: 08-Jan-04 12:02

Hello Paul,

Although I have not yet received your book, I have two questions for you about the genetic evidence of ancient migrations to the Americas:

1. Is your theory of migration across the Atlantic based upon the presence of mtDNA X group in Noth America?

2. Could the first socalled "superflood" after the last Ice Age have triggered a migration from SE Asia to Central and South America?

RE 1:
In "Out of Eden" Oppenheimer mentions that the X group is found along the 55th parallel in North America. He also tells that group X has recently been identified in North Asia among Altaic peoples of southern Siberia. So he thinks that group X - like the other 4 mtDNA founder lines (A, B, C and D) - came to the Americas across the Beringia 22,000 - 25,000 years ago.

RE 2:
Based upon the studies of Torroni, Foster and Yelena Stariovskaya, Oppenheimer thinks that it is possible that there was a migration of people with mtDNA group B about 12,000 - 15,000 years ago. He tells that group B is absent above the 55th parallel of North America, so he thinks it is possible that this migration took place along the coast to Central and South America.

Oppenheimer also telles that group B dominates Indo-China, Southeast Asia and the Pacific (which was colonized from Southeast according to genetic evidence) and that it is also found in Japan, China and Mongolia, but absent from the Subarctic regions of both Eurasia and North America.

In "Eden in the East - The Drowned Continent of Southeast Asia" (1998) by Oppenheimer, there is a figure showing that after the LGM the sea level gradually rose to about 100 meters belov today's level. Then the sea level rose rapidly 14,000 - 13,500 BP by about 40 meters to about 60 meters below today's level.

I have found two maps of Southeast Asia at different sea levels, one 120 meters and one 50 meters below the sea level today: http://www.fmnh.org/research_collections/zoology/zoo_sites/seamaps/prev_riv120rgb7.htm http://www.fmnh.org/research_collections/zoology/zoo_sites/seamaps/prev_50rgb7.htm Although I have not been able to find a map with sea level about 60 meters below the level today, the maps indicate that a great landmass was lost in Southeast Asia when the sea rose about 40 meters 14,000 - 13,500 years ago. And, as I mentioned above, mtDNA group B is dominant in the area where the land was lost.

I have also found an article according to which the distribution of mtDNA groups A, B, C and D is very different in South America: "Southern Andean and northeastern South American populations exhibit relatively low frequencies of haplogroup A and B, and high frequencies of haplogroup C and D, whereas Northern Andean and northwestern South America populations exhibit relatively high frequencies of haplogroup A and B and low frequencies of C and D." There is also a map showing that group B is very dominant in northern Chile.

So it is tempting to raise the question: Could refugees from the flood in Southeast Asia have migrated and brought haplogroup B to northwestern South America between 12,000 and 15,000 years ago as suggested by Oppenheimer? Could they have brought new skills with them and perhaps have founded Monte Verde about 12,500 years ago?

***************************************************

Roy L. Carlson, Department of Archaeology Simon Fraser University

royc@sfu.ca

Human Response to Environmental Change on the Coast of British Columbia.
Abstract:
As a whole the culture history of coastal British Columbia is characterized more by cultural continuity than by disruptions caused by environmental change, although such disruptions were probably responsible for some changes in local cultural sequences. The earliest colonists so far discovered arrived during the cold dry Younger Dryas (12,300 - 11,400 cal BP), but are not well represented in the archaeological record until the temperature rise of the early Holocene (11,400 - 9000 cal BP). The environment had shifted from an herb tundra at 12,300 to a open parkland with alder by11,400, and then by 10,300 to the dense coastal forest that has continued with some variations in conifer genera up to the present day. The earliest known colonists had a lithic technology similar to that of the arctic adapted Nenana Complex of central interior Alaska, and it is probable that these colonists were hunters who followed the caribou through the Yukon on to the coastal tundra where caribou are known from before there is direct evidence for humans, and then continued down the coast at least as far as the Fraser River. A second wave of colonists may have brought microblade technology to the northern coast about 400 years later. Both isotopic and faunal evidence indicate that these peoples were well adapted to the marine environment of the coast by 10,000 cal BP. The process of cultural change was one of adapting existing arctic technology to the ecological niches of the coastal environment. This process continued as new niches evolved and were discovered, and with population growth and circumscription of territories, resulted in a seasonal round of resource collection at specific localities, and the erection of permanent structures at sites suitable for storage of surpluses and residence during the winter season. New niches that expanded during the Holocene were the cedar forests that arrived about 6000 cal BP, and the development of large salmon runs by 8000 cal BP which when capitalized to their fullest extent using fish traps and preservation and storage of the catch, permitted the development of complex societies based on wealth with social rank, specialists in art and technology, and elaborate ceremonialism. These developments took place between 6000 and 4000 cal BP. It has been customary in the past to view the anadromous salmon resource as more stable than the crops of agricultural societies whereas recent studies have shown that at least in some parts of the salmon area there were major fluctuations in salmon abundance in response to poorly understood climatic factors. These fluctuations may have been responsible for discontinuities in the archaeological record of several coastal localities in which case the human response was probably the dispersal of population aggregates and more reliance on the localized resources of the seasonal round, which in turn resulted in a reduction in social complexity.

40 posted on 02/15/2004 9:45:35 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: blam
read later
41 posted on 02/15/2004 11:14:36 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!!
42 posted on 02/16/2004 3:08:05 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Djarum
Over here.
43 posted on 02/16/2004 4:45:07 PM PST by blam
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To: Light Speed
Thanks, very good read. It looks like Devereux and Oppenheimer have an 'open-minded' view of the migrations.

Oppenheimer's take on things sounds similar to James Chatters (..of Kennewick Man fame), who thinks Kennewick Man was descended from a group that produced both the Asians and Europeans.
He thinks the Kennewick Man types made their way all along the west coast of north and south America, crossed over in Panama then made their way back north along the Gulf Coast and on up the east coast of the US. I'm anxious for a definition of 'European DNA' that is spoken of in the below linked article.

European DNA found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida (Windover)

Also, Read the article 'Bye, bye Beringia' linked in the above thread.

44 posted on 02/16/2004 5:11:29 PM PST by blam
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To: Light Speed
You will probably find this interesting also:

Iberia, Not Siberia

45 posted on 02/16/2004 5:14:28 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Thanks!
46 posted on 02/16/2004 5:55:43 PM PST by Djarum
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To: blam
A US Government agency has published evidence that indicates humans
(if Alley can be considered as one,) and dinosours existed at the same time.


47 posted on 02/16/2004 6:38:35 PM PST by ASA Vet ("A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity", Sigmund Freud)
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To: blam
"A period of immense cooling and drought "
How about an estimate ?
48 posted on 02/16/2004 7:03:06 PM PST by Truth666
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To: Torie
TRex went down due to the asteriod that hit the Yucatan, along with most larger animal life on this planet. That is in Bryson's book too.

I thought that silly hypothesis was debunked a long time ago and was only propagated by scientist who just want to take a trip to Cancun.


Did you see an Asteroid hit around here?

49 posted on 02/17/2004 12:08:54 AM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: jpsb
The current ice age cycle (at the risk of duplicating another's answer, as I've only read this far into the thread) is about 2 million years old. The currently held myth is that the icecap in Antarctica is 20 million years old (formerly held to be 30 million years old, as in the NY Times absurdity about the NORTH polar ice melting back in 1999 or so) but in fact the fossils of temperate species found a couple hundred miles from the south pole are less than 3 million years old.

In the spirit of Aristotle, who stated that rocks do not fall from the sky but are carried from elsewhere by the winds, one future Nobel laureate claimed that the fossils must have been carried there -- presumably from South America, across open ocean -- by the wind.

I guess we know what kind of wind that sort of idea really is. ;')

Here's a new title from an author that just can't seem to bring himself to reject the New Lysenkoism, which is global warming / greenhouse effect.
The Long Summer: How Climate Changed Civilization The Long Summer:
How Climate Changed Civilization

by Brian M. Fagan

50 posted on 02/23/2004 7:14:35 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Carl Sagan, tour guide for Gullible's Travels... hmm... not a bad name for a book...)
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