Irreducible Complexity is an Obstacle to Darwinism Even if Parts of a System have other Functions

Discovery Institute ^ | February 18, 2004 | Michael J. Behe

[Heartlander]

Evolutionary Origin of Bacterial Flagellum Through Cooption: A Critical Survey

[balrog666]

More desperate dishonesty from the creationoids.

[lelio]

But how would a lipid-making factory explain rotary propulsion? In the same way that protein pumping explains it -- it doesn't explain it at all.

I'm not sure what the point of this is. That we don't know with 100% certitude what each part in this bacteria does? That's not news.

[BCrago66]

OK let's say for the sake of argument that there are flaws in evolution. It's still a scientific theory, sensitive to evidence.

Creation is hedonism. Intellectual hedonism. It means: I believe X because it makes me feel good to believe X. That's not a scientific theory. That's faith.

[Heartlander]

You are the result of stupidity or intelligence Balrog. You have picked your position and continue to argue accordingly…

[balrog666]

You are the result of stupidity or intelligence Balrog.

You are too. Blame your parents.

[Heartlander]

Both Behe and Gene ‘believe’ in evolution but have problems with the mechanism (i.e. stupidity).

[Heartlander]

Very Good! The “Nanny-nanny-boo-boo” response.
You are consistent.

[PatrickHenry]

PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[lelio]

I'm not sure what the point of this is.

I'm beginning to think that this line of reasoning can be used in explaining the shift in thinking the earth was flat to being a sphere: man just couldn't comprehend the complexity involved in designing a shape that man couldn't fall off the edge of.

[VadeRetro]

It's obviously possible to make useable mousetraps out of surplus parts from other stuff. I don't mean extensively modified other stuff, I mean old junk. You can make all kinds of stuff out of old junk, if you don't mind your stuff looking like it's made out of old junk.

I'm way past the point of wondering whether Behe can see the problems with his original arguments. Way past.

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

Imagine that! A evo tries to derail a crevo thread not posted by one of their own. Surprise.

(Don't worry - I'll start a new thread if this one gets yanked)

[talleyman]

irreducible complexity

Oh, I thought this was about Windows - never mind...

[PatrickHenry]

Might as well use this thread to let it all hang out:
The Flagellum Unspun: The Collapse of "Irreducible Complexity," by Kenneth R. Miller.

[longshadow]

"Festival of festivals" placemarker

[VadeRetro]

"Irreducible," not "irreparable."

[Heartlander]

Did you miss this?
Evolutionary Origin of Bacterial Flagellum Through Cooption: A Critical Survey

[qam1]

Did you miss this?
Evolutionary Origin of Bacterial Flagellum Through Cooption: A Critical Survey

I missed it,

Can you tell me what peer reviewed journal this piece appears in?

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

Nice analysis. At least you admitted you didn't look at it.

[Heartlander]

Well, you got me… The article I cited should be peer-reviewed.
Your post should be peer-reviewed, Miller’s article should be peer-reviewed, and Begley’s article should be in a peer-reviewed journal (unless the Wall Street Journal counts).
I will try to submit this post for peer reviewing so we might discuss it…

In the interim…
Refereed Journals: Do They Insure Quality or Enforce Orthodoxy?
-Frank J. Tipler