A retired Rear Admiral's take on Kerry's four months in Viet Nam.

[P8riot]

The following e-mail was forwarded to me by a friend of Paul Galanti. Galanti was in the Hanoi Hilton for almost seven years, and was the Virginia chair of John McCain's presidential campaign (nobody's perfect).

The email is actually from him, but he credits the contents to a retired Rear Admiral who was assigned to the same duty as Kerry:

---

Go, Ollie!

Here's a long one sent to me by a USNA '51 retired RADM (and POW) quoting a '59 RADM retired:

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.

- - -(a)Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.

- - -(b)Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.

- - -(c)Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.

[P8riot]

Like I said this was forwarded to me by a co-worker who is a friend of Paul Galanti. I can vouch for my friend a LT USNA class of '78, and for CDR Galanti USNA class of '62. The other two gentlemen were not identified.

Just thought I'd pass this along.

[Former Proud Canadian]

bump for later

[Howlin]

I think this email is spam and is being used as a set up:

Something's fishy.

[Howlin]

Ahem.

[section9]

Yah, I caught Southack's cautions on another thread. However, the way this is spreading doesn't make it look like organized agitprop from the Kerry people trying to make Bush's shop overreach. If this meme starts metastasizing in the blogworld, then the media may begin to pick up on it.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[RunningJoke]

I think Kerry knows that the medals were unearned. Would you be more likely to treat your decorations with disdain if they were unearned or earned?

[Prodigal Son]

Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up?

Really good point.

[G.Mason]

Article Here

[Viet Vet in Augusta GA]

Excellent point. You do NOT get up.

[Joe Marine 76]

Here I go again (at least the THIRD time)! Someone needs to go after Kerry's NAVAL OFFICER QUALIFICATION RECORD/SERVICE RECORD BOOK AND THE NAVMC FORM 1650(RECOMMENDATION FOR PERSONAL DECORATION AND AWARD) for EACH decoration! There you will find the truth! I know that one of these retired Admirals could get them. Hell, I bet you that even LtCol Ollie North could get them! Does anybody remember ADM BOURDA and his taking himself out over a Navy Achievement Medal with "V"......hmmmmm? Does anybody remember the Freedom of Information Act when it comes to dealing with PUBLIC FIQURES? Quit wasting your time on the dialogues, get the records! Come on MEDIA!

[Just mythoughts]

Does any one know when JFKerry saved that 1 Republican?

I cannot find any mention of this man until Brinkley's book in anything that JFKerry had to say about that event.

I have no issue "IF" what we are told, happened, is true, but the event sounds so miraculous that surely it was written about before the liberal historian Brinkley wrote his book.

JFKerry is known to use "fakes" warriors in telling his Vietnam war stories.

Why has JFKerry refused to release his military records?

[Prodigal Son]

You do NOT get up.

LOL, Ma Deuce packs a pretty significant 'Ow!' factor ;-)

[Mike Darancette]

I think this email is spam

Makes some very good points though, why did he beach a 50' craft to kill one injured and unarmed VC?

[Publius6961]

More to the point, how long was this slimeball on the ground in Viet Nam?
Long enough to witness first hand all the atrocities he used to glibly paint hundreds of thousands of honorable real men as baby killers, rapists, and war criminals?

I don't think so. The fact that he delivered a glib smooth diatribe has absolutely nothing to do with his so called "military record".

[Howlin]

I understand that it makes great points, that's why I am so upset to have to say it's origin is worrisome!

[G.Mason]

RE: Michael Benge Author of letter [ see my post # 8]

[AmericanVictory]

You mean it's plagiarism representing an article published by someone else as a confidential letter from someone who either did not actually author it or is simply made up?

[Howlin]

I'm not sure; but since it is taking "various forms" on the internet, it certainly can't be said to be authentic.

[TBall]

I think he needs to get the nomination first. Lets not be so hasty.

[Howlin]

Then how do you explain the end of the other thread:

This e-mail was written by Mike Morrison, who won a bronze star in Vietnam and who is now retired, but wrote speeches for Lee Iacocca for many years. It was sent to his brother Ed, who sent it to one of our readers who follows such matters. -Ed.-

[G.Mason]

"Then how do you explain the end of the other thread:"

I am not explaining anything other than it would seem Michael Benge wrote that in the url I gave. IE: Rennaissance Man. [post # 8]

[jrlc]

If Bush has to release National Guard records, JustForKerry ought to be forced to have Navy records released.

[AmericanVictory]

It does seem like an awful lot of unconscious parallelism.
But, whatever the origin, it does reflect knowledge of the theater and there could be a lot of borrowing and parallism and at least some of the authors being in earnest and not concerned about picking up what they see is true and adding to it. This sort of thing was common in the pamphleteering and corresponding leading up to our Revolution, to which the Internet is a rough parallel. Jefferson, for example, admittedly borrowed much of what was in the Declaration from others and shaped it to suit.

[Just mythoughts]

Obviously that is the standard for being President.

Interesting that no media whores have stuck their voice enhancers in his face and ask him when he will release his military records.

While all these looser accuse President Bush of being a liar, JFKerry has documented himself a "liar" right before Congress.

Only JFKerry's military records can tell his story.

No wonder he would rather have his "sex" life be in the news, sure needed a diversion, to keep the media from asking him for his military records.

[Agnes Heep]

Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up?

I'm not sure I've ever seen a 50-caliber round, but when I was a kid living at Wheelus Air Base in Tripoli, Libya, they used to test-fire the 20mm cannons of F-100 fighters out over the Mediterranean. I remember once finding a live shell on the beach and playing with it (yes, I'm probably lucky to be here still). If the 50-caliber is anywhere near the size of those 20mm shells, they're HUGE.

[G.Mason]

I reckon this could be figured out by requesting verification from .......

Michael D. Benge, Senior Advisor
Montagnard Human Rights Organization
Ph. (703) 698-8256 or (202) 5011-3025
Email: bengemike@aol.com

What do you think?

[Howlin]

Absolutely. But three attributions bother me.

[Howlin]

I came across as too hard on that question to you! Sorry.

I'm just curious as to who actually wrote it.

[Prodigal Son]

Well, 20 mm is a bit bigger than a .50 Cal round. But a .50 Caliber round is not the sort of round you get shot with and stagger around Hollywood fashion afterwards. You go down and you don't get back up.

[MissAmericanPie]

This has legs is all Kerry served was 4 months in Nam. It doesn't seem reasonable that anyone would be weighed down with that much brass in so short a time. Seems like he had friends in high places, I don't think any veteran, given the details, will be fooled.

[razorback-bert]

Good points and questions, no matter who assembled them.

[sarasota]

I'm betting that this information will reach the media after Kerry gets the nomination. W hasn't even begun to unleash the hounds on this imposter.

[sd-joe]

Not close in size. 50 cal is 1/2 inch.

[Prodigal Son]

Also, here's an excellent picture that will give you an idea about the size of the 50 Cal rounds at this URL:

http://www.hk94.com/images/bluridge50.jpg

[Let's Roll]

Yeah, if it's for real, there would be attribution.

[onyx]

PKM --- I'll leave up to you.

[Leisler]

"..You go down and you don't get back up. "

Point of order. You, well parts of you, go down, but not after flying a bit, the missing rest just get sprayed around in a mist of bone, blood and fabric, personal weapon parts, boot sole, etc..

[CholeraJoe]

-(c)Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER!

I learned this truism from Chef the machinist's mate in Apocalypse Now. Never get off the boat or you might get attacked by a tiger.

[Prodigal Son]

True ;-)

[P8riot]

If the origin of this email is in question. Go ahead and delete it.

[PhiKapMom]

You and I can get them under the Freedom of Information Act but it would probably take years even if we had a good reason. Government is very slow on releasing information under FOI.

That said, the press and all of us should be demanding that Kerry tell the Secretary of the Navy to release his (Kerry's) military files containing the write-up for the medals and the citations. Also Kerry's medical records need to be demanded.

The American public has a right to see his request to get out of the Navy early once he got back in the States. We need to know dates, we need to know what was in the write-up for his purple hearts compared to injuries on the his medical records, and need to see the write up along with the Citation for his Silver Star.

Since Ollie North has been mentioned, I suggest we all write him and let Ollie lead the way to get Kerry's records opened. He has a voice and if enough people start raising voices about Kerry's military records, we might get them released.

That said -- wait until he gets the nod -- I really want to have him the candidate.

I am not quick to dismiss this out of hand. After seeing what some of the Veterans have been saying and knowing some background about awards after spending 13 years working for the AF, I won't dismiss this email until it is proven false. Have had a bad feeling about John Kerry and his awards all along. They don't make sense.

I received a reply to something I said on another thread from a poster named NavyCaptain who was wounded while serving in Vietnam, had the wound dressed, and turned down a purple heart because of what he had witnessed in the hospital while visiting one of his men who had been wounded. He said he made the right decision 35 years ago and I find him someone to be admired because I think he made the right decision as well. Our Freeper is a man of honor -- Kerry is scum to have accepted three purple hearts and not missed duty IMHO.

[onyx]

BUMP #41

[PhiKapMom]

I wouldn't be too quick to delete. This email has a lot of truth in it. I am getting emails with some background from people I have known over the years that served in Nam -- Kerry's three purple hearts make no sense to any of them. Some are AF medical people who were in Nam and the descriptions they have seen of his wounds, they would not have signed off on any type of award unless "ordered!" Get that Ordered! And then they would have made a note about it.

It needs investigated!

Kerry's awards smell!!!!

[katana]

20 mm equals .79 inches, so there's only about 2/10's of an inch difference. That being said, a 20 mm is a "cannon" and a 50 cal is a "machine gun". Either way, there's not usually much left of a carbon based target but stray parts and a nasty stain.

[katana]

Oops, just under 3/10's of an inch. Damn calculator!

[Redbob]

A typical 50-cal bullet weighs 750 grains (an anitque unit of measure; 4000 gr = 1 lb) and leaves the muzzle at around 3000 fps.

By comparison, the bullet from a .30-06 weighs 180 - 200 gr and leaves the muzzle around 2500 fps.

And the .44 magnum handgun loaded fairly hot might have a 240 grain bullet traveling 1500 fps.

So, yeah, you hit someone with an M2 and it's likely they're down for the count.

[angkor]

There are several million Vietnamese-American refugees now in America.

Most are now U.S. citizens. Tens (hundreds?) of thousands are from Can Tho, Binh Minh, Long Xuyen, Chau Phu, Chau Doc, and other cities and towns along the Bassac, where Kerry served.

But if you look at the VN newspapers and Internet bulletin boards, the Vietnamese are not defending Kerry or validating the VVAW "atrocity" claims he made in the 70s. Quite the opposite, they're calling him a traitor ("phan boi").

Why is that? "Phan boi"?

And why has not one single Vietnamese-American person of the millions in this country come forward to validate or defend Kerry's VVAW claims?

Surely Kerry would have acquainted himself with these "victimized" people among those refugess during the last 30 years. Right? Wouldn't at least one or two have contacted him between 1975 and 2003? It's not as if he's been unknown to the Vietnamese community, quite the opposite, he's well-known and controversial due to his "normalization" push over the last decade.

The silence speaks for itself:

Kerry was lying. "Phan boi".

[pabianice]

US warplanes used the .50 cal in WWII to destroy other airplanes, ships, and tanks from the air. No, you don't "get back up" after being hit with such a round.

[kabar]

Quit wasting your time on the dialogues, get the records! Come on MEDIA!

Excellent point that needs repeating and repeating. We need not "attack" Kerry's war record but just seek full disclosure. Hell, if it is all that Kerry intimates, it could be a boost to his image. We should press the media to be evenhanded. Bush provided his military records, let's see Kerry's.

[PhiKapMom]

Thanks for posting that information. Speaks volumes to me! Kerry is scum IMO!

He lied to the Senate Investigation Committee, he got people to pretending to be Viet Nams to lie to the committee, and now I am supposed to believe he deserved three purple hearts and didn't miss duty time. Give me a break.

Kerry is a LIAR!!! That much we know for sure!