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Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction
BAY AREA (KRON) ^ | February 20, 2004 | NA

Posted on 02/20/2004 4:42:26 PM PST by neverdem

BAY AREA (KRON) -- Drug addiction has been the plague of modern America. But that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now actually be an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of all kinds.

Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:

It doesn't come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient plant. It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict. It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United States. However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist believes ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. "I didn't believe it when I first heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to be debunked," admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.

Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study ibogaine, a mild hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West Africa and was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick their addiction.

"This didn't come from the Salk Institute, this didn't come from the Scripps Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high himself. So the original observation came from the underground," says Dr. Mash.

Observations from this particular underground are not likely to gain the respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.

That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little scientific investigation. There were decades during which the cost of addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.

The human toll was impossible to calculate.

Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. "It was a very high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my life, I had accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly I just watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because I could not stay off heroin," confesses Patrick. "It gets very tiring living like a slave because you keep chasing this and it's like you're not getting high, it's just 'I must do this every single day just to get normal so I can function.'"

Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction is notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return to a drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their legal substitutes, like methadone.

"And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment modality, every paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked," admits Patrick.

Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash was petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow a scientific test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a "schedule one" drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.

"We were established, we had a team of research scientists, doctors, clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go forward with this," describes Dr. Mash.

But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to look into what was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her project, she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island of St. Kitts.

In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given carefully prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the sceptical scientist.

"Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will go to my grave with the memory of that first round," says Dr. Mash.

It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the withdrawal symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for heroin, crack cocaine and even alcohol.

There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second remains a mystery.

Dr. Mash admits, "I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on numerous occasions."

"I don't like the word 'hallucinogen,' but indeed, ibogaine alters mental state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six hour state of almost an active dream, it's like a lucid dream." she describes.

But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state, something extraordinary happens. "We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking opiate withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw the cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked," she says.

Patrick admits, "It's literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever worked and this just did." He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash's trial of ibogaine.

"Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts that I have ever enountered in my life," says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear the scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what happened when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. "When you're going through withdrawal, you're sweating, you're shaking, you're freezing, you're hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it's pain," describes Patrick.

Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction leaving him. "That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had actually been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the first time. That was like a miracle," says Patrick

That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since. "I'm saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14 to 30 is a long time," he says.

On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine in the body is metabolized into another compound called 'noribogaine.' Noribogaine appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.

"The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks the opiate withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it elevates mood," say Dr. Mash.

But of the "visions" that people see, Dr. Mash understands very little -- only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. "It's as if the plant is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person and why you've got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior," she says.

Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it does work, it is not a "magic bullet." "You need treatment, you need social workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry, you need the whole boat of professionalism around this," says Dr. Mash.

But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials, ibogaine was a miracle. "It's like if you suffer from terminal cancer and somebody goes by and says, 'Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing over you and it's gone,'" he says.

Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa holds astounding promise for the modern world. "I think we're going to see fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning," says Dr. Mash.

Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United States.

Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee of the quality unless it's given under medical supervision. And for now, that can only be done overseas.

For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at 1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

(Copyright 2004, KRON 4. All rights reserved.)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: cocianetreatment; drugaddiction; fdaapprovedstudy; herointreatment; ibogaine; mentalhealth; opiatetreatment
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Say a prayer for reproducible results. Too bad no numbers were given.
1 posted on 02/20/2004 4:42:27 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
"I was hooked," she says.

and now she's a pusher.

2 posted on 02/20/2004 4:46:53 PM PST by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: neverdem
LSD -- before the Hippie craze was such a wonder drug. It probably is a wonder drug but abuse of it made the Feds ban its use. Or so the official line goes.
3 posted on 02/20/2004 4:47:31 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: TADSLOS
Come on... If the effect of this drug is to kill off the detox symptoms, it can't be all bad.

Even druggies who want to quit, are afraid to do so, because of the DT's, tremors, sweats, pain, etc.

She even cautions that this has to be a part of a full regimen of therapy etc.

Anything to get people off drugs, even if it is through the use of a single dosage of one drug, is something that should be studied for efficacy. Isn't the whole point to stop the usage?

4 posted on 02/20/2004 4:49:12 PM PST by dogbyte12
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To: neverdem; Tijeras_Slim; Charles Henrickson; Constitution Day
Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

So tell me something I don't already know.

5 posted on 02/20/2004 4:50:38 PM PST by martin_fierro (Love the music. Hate the lyrics.)
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To: dogbyte12
In a related announcement, the American Dental Association has discovered a new treatment for toothaches...


6 posted on 02/20/2004 4:52:00 PM PST by Joe 6-pack ("We deal in hard calibers and hot lead." - Roland Deschaines)
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To: neverdem
Is Ibogaine physically additive in itself? (I think most of those type drugs aren't physically addictive)
7 posted on 02/20/2004 4:52:22 PM PST by templar
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To: neverdem

AH PITY TH' FOO' WHUT PUT HALLUCINOGENS IN MAH DRUGZ!

8 posted on 02/20/2004 4:53:28 PM PST by martin_fierro (Love the music. Hate the lyrics.)
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To: neverdem
Oh, not the old Ibogaine con game again! Dr. Mash has a vested interest in the Great Ibogaine Con because she is working off NSF grants. The idea of using psychedelics to treat addiction is not new; Tim Leary conducted research on the use of LSD and psilocybin in the treatment of alcoholics about 40 years ago. Freud experimented with the use of cocaine in the treatment of his friend's morphine addiction over a hundred years ago. His experiments ended in near disaster and after that, Freud swore off praising the benefits of cocaine (and he used it by injection).The whole idea of using one abusable substance to treat the addiction to another abusable substance is insane.
9 posted on 02/20/2004 5:00:55 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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When informed of this discovery, Onion correspondent Jim Anchower replied, "Dude! That's what I've been saying for years!"


10 posted on 02/20/2004 5:02:02 PM PST by Fedora
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To: neverdem
Ibogaine induces glial activation in parasagittal zones of the cerebellum.

O'Hearn, Elizabeth; Long, David B.; Molliver, Mark E. Sch. Med., Johns Hopkins Univ., Baltimore, MD, USA.

NeuroReport (1993), 4(3), 299-302.

Abstract

Ibogaine, an indole alkaloid, has been proposed for treatment of drug addiction, yet its mechanism, site of action, and possible neurotoxicity have not been detd. Since neuronal injury is known to activate neuroglial cells, the authors investigated potential neurotoxic effects of this drug in rats by examg. expression of specific glial markers. After treatment with ibogaine (100 mg kg-1 i.p.; 1-3 doses), the authors obsd. increased cytochem. markers in both microglia (OX-6, OX-42, W3/25) and astrocytes (GFAP), assocd. with striking morphol. changes in these cells. Activated glial cells were restricted to longitudinally oriented, parasagittal stripes within the vermis of cerebellar cortex. The ibogaine-induced activation of cerebellar glial cells is highly suggestive of neuronal degeneration, most likely of Purkinje cells.

11 posted on 02/20/2004 5:06:17 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: templar
A dose-response study of ibogaine-induced neuropathology in the rat cerebellum.

Xu, Zengjun; Chang, Louis W.; Slikker, William, Jr.; Ali, Syed F.; Rountree, Robert L.; Scallet, Andrew C. Department of Pathology, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, AR, USA.

Toxicological Sciences (2000), 57(1), 95-101.

Abstract

Ibogaine (IBO) is an indole alkaloid from the West African shrub, Tabernanthe iboga. It is structurally related to harmaline, and both these compds. are rigid analogs of melatonin. IBO has both psychoactive and stimulant properties. In single-blind trials with humans, it ameliorated withdrawal symptoms and interrupted the addiction process. However, IBO also produced neurodegeneration of Purkinje cells and gliosis of Bergmann astrocytes in the cerebella of rats given even a single dose (100 mg/kg, i.p.).

Here, we treated rats (n = 6 per group) with either a single i.p. injection of saline or with 25 mg/kg, 50 mg/kg, 75 mg/kg, or 100 mg/kg of IBO. As biomarkers of cerebellar neurotoxicity, we specifically labeled degenerating neurons and axons with silver, astrocytes with antisera to glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP), and Purkinje neurons with antisera to calbindin.

All rats of the 100-mg/kg group showed the same pattern of cerebellar damage previously described: multiple bands of degenerating Purkinje neurons.

All rats of the 75-mg/ kg group had neurodegeneration similar to the 100-mg/kg group, but the bands appeared to be narrower. Only 2 of 6 rats that received 50 mg/kg were affected; despite few degenerating neuronal perikarya, cerebella from these rats did contain patches of astrocytosis similar to those obsd. with 75 or 100 mg/kg IBO. These observations affirm the usefulness of GFAP immunohistochem. as a sensitive biomarker of neurotoxicity. None of the sections from the 25-mg/kg rats, however stained, were distinguishable from saline controls, indicating that this dose level may be considered as a no-observable-adverse-effect level (NOAEL).

12 posted on 02/20/2004 5:09:17 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: neverdem
Here's a more "neutral" paper:

Ibogaine neurotoxicity assessment: electrophysiological, neurochemical, and neurohistological methods.

Binienda, Zbigniew K.; Scallet, Andrew C.; Schmued, Larry C.; Ali, Syed F. Division of Neurotoxicology, FDA/National Center for Toxicological Research, Jefferson, AR, USA.

Alkaloids (Academic Press) (2001), 56(Ibogaine), 193-210.

Abstract

A review discusses the interactions of ibogaine with various neurotransmitter systems. Electrophysiol., neurochem., and neurohistol. tools were used to evaluate ibogaine neurotoxicity. Electrophysiol. studies indicated that ibogaine stimulates monoaminergic neurons and may lower the threshold for cocaine induced electrog. seizures. Ibogaine interacts with several neurotransmitter-binding sites, produces significant alterations in neurotransmitter concns. in different regions of the brain, and also induces immediate early genes. Neuropathol. investigations showed that ibogaine administered at high doses produces selective neuronal degeneration. Thus, ibogaine might have potential use for the treatment of drug addiction, but may also be neurotoxic at high doses.

13 posted on 02/20/2004 5:14:49 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: neverdem

14 posted on 02/20/2004 5:18:01 PM PST by StriperSniper (Manuel Miranda - Whistleblower)
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To: templar
Is Ibogaine physically additive in itself? (I think most of those type drugs aren't physically addictive)

I'm not aware of hallucinogens being physically addictive.

15 posted on 02/20/2004 5:25:02 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: martin_fierro
LOL
16 posted on 02/20/2004 5:26:01 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: 45Auto
The whole idea of using one abusable substance to treat the addiction to another abusable substance is insane.

Like methadone?

17 posted on 02/20/2004 5:35:36 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: neverdem
The upshot is, that while ibogaine is an interesting substance and possibly useful in basic studies in pharmacology and brain chemistry, it doesn't hold much promise as a "magic bullet" to render the addict "cured". Its side effect profile suggests that it might indeed be somewhat neurotoxic at certain dose levels or with certain levels of repeated treatment. There are much better (and safer) drugs in current use to curtail some of the withdrawal problems associated with the opiates. And there is no substitute, I repeat, no substitute for massive and continued group therapy for addicts, including twelve step organizations. There's no easy way; those who think there might be are seriously deluded, at least by current medical scientific knowledge.
18 posted on 02/20/2004 5:39:53 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
The whole idea of using one abusable substance to treat the addiction to another abusable substance is insane.

The war on drugs is insane too, reminding me of a dog chasing its tail, but that's another story.

A single dose of ibogaine in a controlled clinical setting is certainly not abuse and definitely worth investigating in a time of AIDS with all the innocent people threatened from the sexual behavior of injecting drug users.

The story doesn't say how funding was obtained. Hopefully, the announcement of the FDA findings will be simultaneous with publication. Thanks for the abstracts. Did you find them at PubMed?

19 posted on 02/20/2004 5:43:51 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: tacticalogic
Methadone might be useful in the early stages of treating opiate addiction; it is, in my opinion, not too useful over the long term precisely because it simply substitutes one drug for another. The addict still has to remain "in the cycle" of drug using behavior, even though methadone is somewhat less "disrupting" to one's daily behavior. Current medical philosophy and that of addiction treatment is that there is no "easier, softer way" to beat an addiction whether to alcohol or other drug. There is more to addiction then merely weaning the addict from a preferred substance. Long-term counseling including twelve step programs like AA, have a fair success rate, although one could argue about the details. No treatment will work if the addict refuses to see that once started, he/she cannot control the level, outcome , or repetition of drug use.
20 posted on 02/20/2004 5:48:35 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: neverdem

21 posted on 02/20/2004 5:51:36 PM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: 45Auto
I've only known one person who was addicted to opiates. He was prescribed methadone to handle the withdrawl symptoms and sent home. No counseling, no group therapy, no 12 step program. And it worked. He died 20 years later, probably addicted to oxycodone, but that's another story.

But I don't think any drug or program is going to help people who don't want to quit.

22 posted on 02/20/2004 5:56:06 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: fourdeuce82d; Travis McGee; El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; ...
PING
23 posted on 02/20/2004 5:56:15 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
My opinions about the Drug War are that it is mostly worthless and very expensive. However, the Ibogaine story has been around for a long time; the drug has been studied as a possible addiction treatment for about 25 years, including some extensive work at the National Institute on Drug Abuse, part of NIH. A lot of basic information about its effects and mechanisms of action have been published. It is interesting, but it is not a magic curative for opiate addiction. It might have limited use in certain cases at least in initial therapy. But there is no substitute for an addict motivated in the quest for sobriety. Every addict and alcoholic yearns for a drug that will "cure" him of his obsession; that way, no real work or self-examination will be required.
24 posted on 02/20/2004 5:56:58 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
There is some interesting stereochemistry about this molecule including the methano bridge and the fused saturated rings. It exists in several isomeric forms and I think the natural form has a negative rotation of polarized light. Its total synthesis has been accomplished, but its not trivial. It shares with a number of other interesting drugs a tryptamine moiety, in this case imbedded along with the terpenoid-like pieces.
25 posted on 02/20/2004 6:03:14 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
There is some interesting stereochemistry about this molecule including the methano bridge and the fused saturated rings. It exists in several isomeric forms and I think the natural form has a negative rotation of polarized light. Its total synthesis has been accomplished, but its not trivial. It shares with a number of other interesting drugs a tryptamine moiety, in this case imbedded along with the terpenoid-like pieces.

I agree.

26 posted on 02/20/2004 6:07:48 PM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
You have a background in organic chemistry?
27 posted on 02/20/2004 6:10:33 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
No, but I do own a biology book.
28 posted on 02/20/2004 6:11:36 PM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: StriperSniper
Thanks for the image, but I can better appreciate molecular structure using the method in comment# 21. It's odd that you both have alliterative names starting with same consonant. Do you happen to know the names of these different techniques representing molecular structures?
29 posted on 02/20/2004 6:13:52 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
I must apologize for being pedantic; its easy to get carried away.
30 posted on 02/20/2004 6:13:59 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
I was only teasing you. Actually, I wish I had your intellect. I can barely pass a biology class, unfortunately.
31 posted on 02/20/2004 6:14:31 PM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: Cathryn Crawford; 45Auto
Cathryn, be a good girl and I'll let you ride my ferrous wheel.

Sorry about all that, 45Auto. ;-)

32 posted on 02/20/2004 6:16:48 PM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: neverdem
I can better appreciate molecular structure using the method in comment# 21

Yeah, but mine looks cooler. ;-)

No, I'm not familiar with the terminology, been a while since highschool chemistry. It was just the image at the top of the linked page.

33 posted on 02/20/2004 6:17:49 PM PST by StriperSniper (Manuel Miranda - Whistleblower)
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To: Destro
having taken acid about 4-500 times, many of them by myself on unbelievable wilderness experiences (most of the balance were dead shows) I can assure you that acid is a wonder drug. absoutely no question about it. I have taken hundreds of individuals on their first trip and everytime it is a magical and learning experience. In short, it is a way to find a short cut to "universal love" or "god" or "the great spirit". It should NOT be used as a "party drug",however, and I will warn anyone taking it to be prepared to find out everything about yourself, including the hidden dark corners of your mind that may scare you for now. Once you shine the light on those dark areas, however, you become a much more secure individual. No wonder the guvmint is terrified of it.
34 posted on 02/20/2004 6:24:02 PM PST by H2dude
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To: Cathryn Crawford
No, but I do own a biology book.

Ha! I just saved a bunch of money by switching to GEICO.

35 posted on 02/20/2004 6:54:29 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: H2dude
I have taken hundreds of individuals on their first trip and everytime it is a magical and learning experience.

I doubt that. I remember going to a party as a teenager, and somebody gave some girl LSD.

Let's put it this way, she didn't look like she was on a Magical Mystery Tour shivering, crying and freaking out in the corner.

36 posted on 02/20/2004 7:00:20 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: H2dude
....of course, nobody fessed up, probably because they would be taking a not-so-mysterious tour of the local hospital.
37 posted on 02/20/2004 7:02:33 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: RnMomof7
ping to drug addiction article
38 posted on 02/20/2004 7:26:12 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of it!!)
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To: dogbyte12
They have clinics in Canada and Mexico.
39 posted on 02/20/2004 7:49:03 PM PST by tiki
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To: 45Auto
The idea of using psychedelics to treat addiction is not new; Tim Leary conducted research on the use of LSD and psilocybin in the treatment of alcoholics about 40 years ago.

Bill Wilson, co-founder of AA, believed LSD could help in the treatment of alcoholism by inducing the "spiritual awakening" he felt was a necessary step in beating the addiction.

40 posted on 02/20/2004 8:06:09 PM PST by randog (Everything works great 'til the current flows.)
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To: 45Auto
You have a background in organic chemistry?

I don't either, .... but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

41 posted on 02/20/2004 8:24:17 PM PST by ikka
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To: H2dude
I take no drugs and drink little - saying so before I post the next item.
42 posted on 02/20/2004 8:34:06 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: H2dude
web of a drug-free spider

web of a spider on caffeine

web of a spider on LSD

43 posted on 02/20/2004 8:35:52 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
Web #2 looks like it was spun by a spider in a hurry. LOL!!!
44 posted on 02/20/2004 8:53:51 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Any day you wake up is a good day.)
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To: Destro
....maybe I'm drinking too much coffee.
45 posted on 02/20/2004 9:01:05 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham; H2dude
Results of NASA experiments with Spiders and Drugs

The normal web of a spider.

Web created while exposed to Mescaline/Peyote.

Web created exposed to LSD.

Web created while exposed to Marijuana.

Web created exposed to Caffeine.

Web created exposed to Benzedrine/Speed.

Web created exposed to Chloral Hydrat. An ingredient found in sleeping pills.

46 posted on 02/20/2004 9:04:31 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: neverdem
It doesn't come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient plant.

This alone will be reason enough for the gubmint to ban it or attempt to control it. Just like hemp was banned years ago because its cultivation and use as replacement for many synthetically produced products would have upset the apple cart and cut into the profits of a number of industrialists.

But that's just my cynical/paranoid opinion....

What's that noise? Is that a black helicopter coming?

47 posted on 02/20/2004 9:17:47 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (The way that you wander is the way that you choose. The day that you tarry is the day that you lose.)
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To: Destro
Interesting stuff. Seems to me that, over a long time, nature has evolved creatures that steered clear of these substances (e.g. if they had, tehy would have been eliminated from the gene pool over time). Modern homo sapiens have the capacity to reject the past and pursue these substances again. IMO, in the end, natural selection will prevail, as usual. :O)
48 posted on 02/20/2004 9:23:59 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Any day you wake up is a good day.)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
I on the other hand, stayed at a Holiday Inn.
49 posted on 02/20/2004 9:28:27 PM PST by Righty1 (N)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
So true, not to mention the many benefits of hemp seed oil(perfect amino acid profile for human nutrition).

Greater per acre value to mankind doesn't exist.

But then ADM would cry and we wouldn't want that, would we?

ADM's corn whore mongering must continue at all costs.

50 posted on 02/20/2004 9:33:44 PM PST by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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