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Disenchanted Bush Voters Consider Crossing Over (Independent joins GOP in just two weeks time!)
NY Times ^ | 2.22.04

Posted on 02/21/2004 5:07:32 PM PST by ambrose

Disenchanted Bush Voters Consider Crossing Over By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

Published: February 22, 2004

BEACHWOOD, Ohio - In the 2000 presidential election, Bill Flanagan a semiretired newspaper worker, happily voted for George W. Bush. But now, shaking his head, he vows, "Never again."

"The combination of lies and boys coming home in body bags is just too awful," Mr. Flanagan said, drinking coffee and reading newspapers at the local mall. "I could vote for Kerry. I could vote for any Democrat unless he's a real dummy."

Mr. Flanagan is hardly alone, even though polls show that the overwhelming majority of Republicans who supported Mr. Bush in 2000 will do so again in November. In dozens of random interviews around the country, independents and Republicans who said they voted for Mr. Bush in 2000 say they intend to vote for the Democratic presidential candidate this year. Some polls are beginning to bolster the idea of those kind of stirrings among Republicans and independents.

That could change, of course, once the Bush campaign begins pumping millions of dollars into advertising and making the case for his re-election.

But even as Democratic and Republican strategists and pollsters warned that a shift could be transitory, they also said it could prove to be extraordinarily consequential in a year when each side is focused on turning out its most loyal voters.

"The strong Republicans are with him," a senior aide to Senator John Kerry said of Mr. Bush. "But there are independent-minded Republicans among whom he is having serious problems."

"With the nation so polarized," he added, "the defections of a few can make a big difference."

In the interviews, many of those potential "crossover" voters said they supported the invasion of Iraq but had come to see the continuing involvement there as too costly and without clear objectives.

Many also said they believed that the Bush administration had not been honest about its reasons for invading Iraq and were concerned about the failure to find unconventional weapons. Some of these people described themselves as fiscal conservatives who were alarmed by deficit spending, combined with job losses at home. Many are shocked to find themselves switching sides.

While sharing a sandwich at the stylish Beachwood Mall in this Cleveland suburb, one older couple ? a judge and a teacher ? reluctantly divulged their secret: though they are stalwarts in the local Republican Party, they are planning to vote Democratic this year.

"I feel like a complete traitor, and if you'd asked me four months ago, the answer would have been different," said the judge, after assurances of anonymity. "But we are really disgusted. It's the lies, the war, the economy. We have very good friends who are staunch Republicans, who don't even want to hear the name George Bush anymore."

In 2000, Mr. Bush won here in Ohio with 50 percent of the popular vote, as against 46.5 percent for Al Gore.

George Meagher, a Republican who founded and now runs the American Military Museum in Charleston, S.C., said he threw his "heart and soul" into the Bush campaign four years ago. He organized veterans to attend campaign events, including the campaign's kickoff speech at the Citadel. He even has photographs of himself and his wife with Mr. Bush.

"Given the outcome and how dissatisfied I am with the administration, it's hard to think about now," he said. "People like me, we're all choking a bit at not supporting the president. But when I think about 500 people killed and what we've done to Iraq. And what we've done to our country. I mean, we're already $2 trillion in debt again."

A nationwide CBS News poll released Feb. 16 found that 11 percent of people who voted for Mr. Bush in 2000 now say they will vote for the Democratic candidate this fall. But there was some falloff among those who voted against him as well. Five percent of people who said they voted for Mr. Gore in 2000 say this time they will back Mr. Bush.

On individual issues, the poll found some discontent among Republicans but substantial discontent among independents. For instance, on handling the nation's economy, 19 percent of Republicans and 56 percent of independents said they disapproved of the job Mr. Bush was doing.

"As the president's job rating has fallen, his Democratic supporters have pulled away first, then the independents and now we're starting to see a bit of erosion among the Republicans, who used to support him pretty unanimously," said Evans Witt, the chief executive of Princeton Survey Research Associates. "If 10 to 15 percent of Republicans do not support him anymore, that is not trivial for Bush's re-election."

But Matthew Dowd, the Bush campaign's chief strategist, suggested that no one in the White House was worried about Mr. Bush's losing much of his base. He said polls continued to show that the president was enjoying the support of 90 percent of Republicans.

Many of those interviewed said that they had experienced a growing disenchantment with the conflict in Iraq over many months, but that only recently had they decided to change their votes.

A number said they had been deeply disturbed by recent statements of David A. Kay, the former United Nations weapons inspector, who said he was skeptical about administration claims that Iraq possessed unconventional weapons.

"The lack of evidence on Iraq has really hurt him, and the economy here is bad ? there's a lot of unemployment in the mills," said Phyllis Pierce, who is in the steel business in Cleveland and recently decided not to vote for Mr. Bush again.

John Scarnado, a sales manager from Austin, Tex., who voted for Mr. Bush in 2000, said he would vote for Mr. Kerry if the senator won the Democratic nomination.

"I'm upset about Iraq and the vice president and his affiliation with Halliburton," said Mr. Scarnado, a registered Republican who said that he had not always voted along party lines. "I think the Bush administration is coming out to look like old boy politics, and I don't have a good feel about that."

Many of those wavering in their loyalty to Mr. Bush were middle-class voters who said that his tax relief programs had disproportionately helped the wealthy.

"I voted for him, but it seems like he's just taking care of his rich buddies now," said Mike Cross, a farmer from Londonderry, N.H., adding, "I'm not a great fan of John Kerry, but I've had enough of President Bush."


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: billflanagan; bogus; deceit; fabrications; flanagan; georgemeagher; georgemeahger; gregpacker; gwb2004; kerry; kerrycampaign; meager; meagher; mediabias; myths; nyt; nytimes
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To: diotima
....Bill Flanagan a semiretired newspaper worker...
 
This is code for Democrat.

51 posted on 02/21/2004 5:50:29 PM PST by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Sabertooth
None of these, however, are likely to result in more votes for Democrats, but rather in votes for third party candidates or low turnout.

Yep, Conservatives and others enabling Democrats — again.

52 posted on 02/21/2004 5:50:36 PM PST by Consort
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To: Triple Word Score
Skaggs has pulled off quite a few capers on his media mission. Using the alias "Dr. Joe Bones," he invented the "Fat Squad" to razz the media for the endless attention it pays to diet fads. Skaggs promoted the Fat Squad as a group of commandos that dieters could hire to keep them away from food. Skaggs said, "It is a joke about how everyone is hyping this weight loss thing. All these books, you know, and the diets and all this stuff. So I said, 'I will have commandos assigned to you 24 hours a day, and they'll beat the crap out of you if you go for that chocolate cake, if it's not on your diet.' "

To promote his Fat Squad, Skaggs simply sent a press release to wire services, which then sent the story to newsrooms across the country. "The Washington Post and The Philadelphia Enquirer both fell for this," Skaggs said. "Another journalist wanting to do their own personal spin on it will call you up, verify that they spoke to you, and then repackage, re-can and put out the same story in essence," he said.

And what newspapers print, television regularly copies. Skaggs, posing as Joe Bones, appeared on ABC's Good Morning America, promoting his Fat Squad. The show's former co-host David Hartman introduced the story by announcing that "six Fat Squad commandos are here now, this morning, live, to maintain tight security around our Good Morning America refrigerator." Hartman displayed a bit of skepticism, asking "Bones" if the Fat Squad was legitimate, but that was the extent of the challenge.

There is, of course, a big difference between Joey Skaggs, a self-styled "satirist" who's looking to fool the media, and Greg Packer, an apparently honest schlub who just wants to see his name in print, but in the end they've been able to do what they do for the same reason: not enough people have paid enough attention to recognize them when they've popped up. I suspect it will be harder for Packer to get in the paper now that he's been outed, but I can just about guarantee we haven't seen the last of him.


I have decided that we need to do this and make the media look like the fools they are. If they take any PETA front group and make them a front page story about Atkins then we can launch our own organization!
53 posted on 02/21/2004 5:51:32 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: Tribune7
Remember William Jefferson Blythe Clinton. He is the pervert that Dubya replaced.
The NYT along with most other left-wing liberal daily newspapers endorsed that pervert. Vote straight
Republican.
54 posted on 02/21/2004 5:51:33 PM PST by Temple Owl
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To: Admin Moderator

55 posted on 02/21/2004 5:52:49 PM PST by diotima
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To: diotima
The NYT was outed by Jason Blair.
56 posted on 02/21/2004 5:53:04 PM PST by Temple Owl
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To: diotima
lol!!!
57 posted on 02/21/2004 5:53:30 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Wolverine; All
The NYT has not only jumped the shark but has long passed into irrelevance.

Does anyone have a list of all newspapers which are owned by the NYT? It wiould make it easier to spot such propaganda pieces.
58 posted on 02/21/2004 5:54:06 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Neets
Its nothing more than a liberal front group, their whole point is media attention. Why can't conservatives start doing the same thing and mess with the media the same way??
59 posted on 02/21/2004 5:54:35 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: ambrose
1. Clear examples of DNC talking points.
2. From NYT.

Next!!!
60 posted on 02/21/2004 5:54:51 PM PST by Maria S ("I will do whatever the Americans want…I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid." Gaddafi, 9/03)
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To: ambrose
One more question please, what is a "Moby Republican"?
61 posted on 02/21/2004 5:55:19 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: Neets
I just love this idea that the media is trying to feed us that people who are unhappy with Bush because he isn't conservative enough are turning to Kerry. Kerry is a virtual socialist. I mean..get real.
62 posted on 02/21/2004 5:56:53 PM PST by diotima
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To: GeronL
Yeah, but don't forget what has happened to poor Registered. Sometimes it's GOOD to fool the media, and sometimes...

:shudder:



63 posted on 02/21/2004 5:57:08 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: neverdem
One more question please, what is a "Moby Republican"?

Some rapper who calls himself "Moby" said that DemoRats should pretend to be Republicans and call up talk shows and say they can no longer support Bush and to go in pro-life chat rooms and claim that Bush forced his girlfriend to get an abortion.

64 posted on 02/21/2004 5:58:07 PM PST by ambrose ("John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands" - Lt. Col. Oliver North)
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To: Triple Word Score
I am sure that Registered is just fine, didn't hurt a bit... right?? did I miss something?? =o)
65 posted on 02/21/2004 5:58:09 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: diotima
We should all just play stupid...play along with the game..and then watch them all go into cardiac arrest after they predict a Kerry landslide and Bush registers an overwhelming win.

NOW THAT would be priceless.
66 posted on 02/21/2004 5:58:34 PM PST by Neets (Complainers change their complaints, but they never reduce the amount of time spent in complaining.~)
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To: ambrose
The TV and the press are full speed ahead to defeat Bush. And the sheeple gobble it up. As Joni Mitchle would say: You don't know what you've got till it's gone.

Imagine another Dem president: implementing pi$$ poor foreign policy decisions, higher taxes, homosexual marriage the norm, infanticide a choice, more governmental intrusion into private affairs, stricter gun control policies and Lot's more soft-on-crime judges and suicide bombers dealt with kid gloves.

To the NYTimes and Rosenthal, No thanks. And I'm a moderate!

67 posted on 02/21/2004 5:59:56 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: Dec31,1999
It's the Supreme Court that makes this election so crucial. Several of the justices are just hanging on till the election--then they WILL be retiring. That's why I wince when I see FReepers bashing Bush. We not only need Bush to win but we also need the Senate's paralysis to be cured by an overwhelming conservative mandate.
68 posted on 02/21/2004 6:01:34 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: ambrose
Nice job ambrose!
69 posted on 02/21/2004 6:01:54 PM PST by PeteFromMontana (It's only news if it puts a Conservative in a bad light.)
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To: ambrose
And how many Gore voters have they interviewed that are thanking heaven that he was not president on 9/11.
70 posted on 02/21/2004 6:02:02 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: neverdem
The musician Moby thought it would be real good "strategery" for leftists to hang around conservative places on the internet and say things bad about Bush. For instance he brilliantly recommended his drones go visit a Pro-Life chat room and say things like "I heard Bush had/paid/for/performed an abortion. Can you believe that?" so that people will vote for the real prolife candidate..uh..John Kerry I guess. He suggested they do that on all fronts.

You know like a cyber-seminar caller: "I have voted Republican my whole life, in fact I invented the GOP but I don't think I can vote for Bush again because he clubs baby seals and poisons baby formula.

71 posted on 02/21/2004 6:02:34 PM PST by diotima
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To: Triple Word Score
Sadly, three US military personnel die every day in service related accidents.
72 posted on 02/21/2004 6:04:59 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: longtermmemmory
Nationwide newspapers.

73 posted on 02/21/2004 6:06:02 PM PST by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: ambrose
How much time and money did the NYT spend to find these frauds?
74 posted on 02/21/2004 6:08:20 PM PST by jackbill
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To: Consort




Yep, Conservatives and others enabling Democrats — again.

Nope, Republican candidates taking constiuencies for granted are the ones who risk enabling Democrats -- again.

I know, I know, the Bushes have birthrights to Republican votes, but just too many stubborn Americans don't see it that way.


75 posted on 02/21/2004 6:08:32 PM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: ambrose
Whats that Smell?!!....Oh it's this article
76 posted on 02/21/2004 6:09:25 PM PST by mylife
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To: OldFriend
Well, sure, they do, but they die in peacetime too. They die in automobile accidents, in falls, from illness and overdoses, in training accidents. I think it likely that a disciplined combat unit under good leadership, with the right procedures and adequate equipment, is safer in Iraq than left to their own devices in civilian life. That's all I am saying--cold hard actuarial data is lacking, so I can only guess. Those particular 500 who died of combat-related injuries might all be alive if they were not deployed to Iraq, but another 500 would have died of normal causes in their place, if they were all home.

Any death diminishes us, but we need to be realistic when we talk about the "500 who died in Bush's war." This is not an exceptional level of casualties for such a great gain.
77 posted on 02/21/2004 6:09:51 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: Wolverine
Thanks for the link.
78 posted on 02/21/2004 6:10:13 PM PST by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Triple Word Score
Bremen Wyoming Republic Council
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE!!

February 22, 2004

Bremen, Wyoming- The Bremen Wyoming Republican Council has voted by a 12-2 margin to endorse John Kerry over their own incumbant President.

"We hope that this will send a wake-up call to the establishment in Washington" said BWRC Chairman Jimmy Dean "We think that spending cuts in vital services like AIDS spending is putting our nation at risk".

It was just one of many complaints that this group of 'staunch' Republicans has outlined. Some of the others are that the Presidents re-election campaign has taken attention away from the war on terror and finding Bin Laden.

"As a rural community, we have been hit hard by massive cuts in farm supports" said Billy Joel, another member of the Council who serves as Communications Director. "This indidious hate-filled crackdown on innocent muslims in our country should be considered an international crime".

Farmer Mike Moore agrees that it is hightime that the President faces reality: "Giving me a tax cut doesn't put money into my pocket".

"Bush has abandoned our country, he is a deserter as our national leader" said Madonna Clark who serves as Assistant Public Relations Director for the organization "The time has come for the American people to make a choice between fighting the terrorists or living in peace with them".

One of the two dissenters did not agree with endorsing John Kerry was rancher Allan Gore "We are Republicans, if we want to be Democrats we can go across the street".

"Just because Bush is a miserable failure doesn't mean we should abandon our party" he told them.


For Immediate Release!!

79 posted on 02/21/2004 6:10:47 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: ambrose
Some of us are thinking about crossing over, but not to RAT like the article implies.

Not happening.

I'll wait to hear what Nader has to say about jobs/outsourcing.
80 posted on 02/21/2004 6:11:13 PM PST by Soundman4x4
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To: longtermmemmory
Check out:

http://www.nytco.com/company-othersites.html

The largest newspaper owned by the NYT Company is the Boston Globe, but they own a total of 16 nationwide.
81 posted on 02/21/2004 6:12:10 PM PST by jackbill
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To: Triple Word Score
we only 'bash Bush' because we want him to stand up and be conservative and more actively so. There isn't anyone else to vote for but there should and must be pressure to move him to the right.
82 posted on 02/21/2004 6:12:29 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: section9
Yeah, but there's a younger, more innocent crowd now in place to vote. A lot of them agree with what they read in Newsday and other monopolistic press organizations in most cities. Yes, it's all on line, but they are not paying attention, because they're working and have children to tend to, not read blogs!

Even the blowhard O'Reilley is against Bush now, if they are. We have no public voice except for Rush, who's severely damaged, and Hannity, who never had much influence anyway. The Conservative word is not getting out there enough to the sheeple. I'm concerned that we may lose this election, and I think we'd better get our story straight and soon.

83 posted on 02/21/2004 6:13:48 PM PST by Dec31,1999 (PR is everything.)
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To: ambrose
I wonder how many of them are our fine "conservative" FReepers, who would rather vote for Kerry, than Bush, while running around telling everyone that Bush isn't conservative enough for them, but apparently Kerry is.
84 posted on 02/21/2004 6:14:39 PM PST by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: FairOpinion
I have seen no conservative FReepers supporting Kerry
85 posted on 02/21/2004 6:15:55 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: ambrose
Your observation made it on Instapundit.

Look here: http://www.instapundit.com/archives/014280.php

: )

BCrago66
86 posted on 02/21/2004 6:16:13 PM PST by BCrago66
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To: Neets
BTTT, nice link, looks like those folks believe conservative principles not.
87 posted on 02/21/2004 6:16:44 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: GeronL
Is that a joke????? It must be!!!!

They aren't Republicans!!!!

"We think that spending cuts in vital services like AIDS spending is putting our nation at risk".

As a rural community, we have been hit hard by massive cuts in farm supports" said Billy Joel, another member of the Council who serves as Communications Director. "This indidious hate-filled crackdown on innocent muslims in our country should be considered an international crime".

Farmer Mike Moore agrees that it is hightime that the President faces reality: "Giving me a tax cut doesn't put money into my pocket".

"The time has come for the American people to make a choice between fighting the terrorists or living in peace with them".

"Just because Bush is a miserable failure doesn't mean we should abandon our party"

It must be a joke. These are socialists!
88 posted on 02/21/2004 6:17:54 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: GeronL
"I have seen no conservative FReepers supporting Kerry"

==

I didn't say that conservative FReepers support Kerry, I said FReepers who CLAIM to be conservatives are supporting Kerry.

Some of them said so in their posts -- the "anonymous ones" only voted for Kerry in the FR poll. So far 181.

If it's Kerry vs Bush how will you vote?

Bush
3,701 votes - 78%

Kerry
181 votes - 3%

89 posted on 02/21/2004 6:18:00 PM PST by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: GeronL
Bwahaha.
90 posted on 02/21/2004 6:18:24 PM PST by ambrose ("John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands" - Lt. Col. Oliver North)
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To: Triple Word Score
Of course its a joke.

I'm just trying to think like the NY Times.

91 posted on 02/21/2004 6:18:48 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: ambrose; Jim Robinson
Congratualtions on the find at your post #1.

This sort of documentation is just what this site has been about. Hey Jim! See #1

92 posted on 02/21/2004 6:19:06 PM PST by KC Burke
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To: GeronL
All right, but if you'll kindly hand back that leg, I would like to put it back on now.
93 posted on 02/21/2004 6:19:49 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: FairOpinion
hhhmmmmmm...

Gotta be some leftist lurkers and others... how many lurkers are liberals who are keeping an eye on us?? DU types??

94 posted on 02/21/2004 6:19:59 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: ambrose
Thanks for pointing this out. I knew cbs's dan blather was using the same trick, interviewing the same old b*tch against Bush (claim she was a Bush supporter but no longer) in different news clips on different days..

sorta reminds me the looting of Baghdad last April - remember the guy carrying the large vase out of the building - over and over and over again in different segments - lol
95 posted on 02/21/2004 6:20:36 PM PST by FRgal4u
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To: Triple Word Score
wait... do you mean there actually are liberals in Wyoming??
96 posted on 02/21/2004 6:20:56 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: ambrose

George Meagher (left), the director of the American Military Museum in the basement of the IMAX theater, receives military medals and prints donated Friday by John Ragsdale of Florida. (WADE SPEES/STAFF)

97 posted on 02/21/2004 6:21:13 PM PST by tgslTakoma (Why call it ANSWER? It's Workers World Party! BUGGING OUT OF DC on March 20, 2004)
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To: GeronL
All I know about Wyoming I learned from MY FRIEND FLICKA.
98 posted on 02/21/2004 6:21:43 PM PST by Triple Word Score
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To: BCrago66
Maybe Rush will pick up on this.

These clowns at the NY Times have no shame whatsoever.
99 posted on 02/21/2004 6:21:46 PM PST by ambrose ("John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands" - Lt. Col. Oliver North)
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To: GeronL
hmmmm indeed..

I watched that poll on an almost hourly basis...by about the 3rd day, after folks had seen the poll and started really talking about it..it was running ~81% in favor of the President....then all of a sudden...in a 24 hr period...the Kerry/CP numbers shot way up.
100 posted on 02/21/2004 6:22:43 PM PST by Neets (Complainers change their complaints, but they never reduce the amount of time spent in complaining.~)
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