Posted on 02/22/2004 4:04:20 AM PST by Liz
Jews have figured out the "allies" who make thinly veiled threats aren't allies. It behooves no one to ignore false gestures of friendship.
Or was that merely just a jumping off point from which folks with an axe to grind could grind their axe? ;)
Not worth going back to the comment, but I doubt I "asked" about the "Shoah business", I'm familiar with it's use and those whose use. I'm sure there's an exception out there somewhere, but it's a construction of the realm of bigots, like Holohoax.
If you think Rabbi Heir or Simon Wiesenthal are motivated by money, great, spread your message. There are plenty of folk out there happy to discuss the greedy Jews with you.
And so much energy devoted to attacking one entertainer who makes one movie!
And such careful siftings through my prose, in the eager hope that the final, satisfying accusation of antisemite can be made--instead of mere cowardly hints and veronica-veiled associations and web sites--sigh. This is a nonsense of which I am very familiar. Fretting about someone like me is so much easier than facing the real danger.
Making money isn't a bad thing, depending on the situation. In fact The Passion team looks to have a set up very lucrative merchandizing deals for mugs, nail necklaces, and other product tie-ins, etc. That does two things. It spreads the word of the movie, it's message, and fills the coffers at the same time. Hey, it's called show BUSINESS. It's a business. Gibson put lots of his own money on the line and he deserves to make it back. I'm a capitalist so I approve. They might sell stuff at the Weisenthal Center too. The Diary of Anne Frank, items like that.
If you think Rabbi Heir or Simon Wiesenthal are motivated by money, great, spread your message. There are plenty of folk out there happy to discuss the greedy Jews with you.
I stand by it, go out there and spread the message. Feel free to post evidence of their greed if you like, including evidence of the “Shoah business”
I also said
Jews have figured out the "allies" who make thinly veiled threats aren't allies. It behooves no one to ignore false gestures of friendship.
I stand by that too.
If you see no reasons to support Israel, don’t support Israel.
As to the accusation of antisemite[ism] you made it, not me. Save the strawman for someone else.
I heard you the first time--and their (ADL and Weisenthal) behavior remains breathtakingly cynical and exploitative. Al Sharpton could take lessons.
Only it's largely power and influence they're after rather than money in the Gibson fiasco-- and it is quite a fiasco.
The main twist of the movie was that the McCarthyite figures actually WERE communists, pretending to be anti- in order to achieve power (with the help of the brainwashed sniper son).
What? Can you cite anyplace where an American Jew said that Hitler wasn't so bad between 1939 and 1941? The CPUSA spin at the time was that Stalin was making sacrifices to preserve peace in Europe and buying time to prepare for the inevitable war.
Actually, the signing of the non-aggression pact was the beginning of the downfall of communism in America. A lot of American Communists, especially Jews, felt that Stalin had betrayed them and they quit the party. I used to work for an old Communist, an actual official in the party (and, full disclosure, a Jew who didn't quit the party until the Kruschev revelations). I asked him about the Hitler-Stalin pact and he said it was "the first lurch of the train, and a lot of people fell off."
Practical considerations? Israel is a powerful ally of the United States in the most anti-American region of the world. Consider how powerful Syria alone would be if Israel had not vanquished them over and over again. Consider that Israel used the F-16's provided with American money to blow up nuclear reactors in Iraq. Saddam Huessein would have had nuclear weapons in 1985. In my mind, supporting Israel with arms and money is very much akin to our giving similar support to the British in the early part of WWII. If Israel was not there, I honestly beleive we would have today more of our own troops there in their stead.
As for the notion that it is because of our support for Israel that we have such problems with the Arab world in the first place, I say BS. The Muslim extremists do not exclusively want the United States to reduce their support of Israel. They want many things. They want the United States out of Saudi Arabia. They want all American oil interests out of their region. They want all Western influence out of their governments. All these demands, made clear in Al Queada's statements, have nothing to do with Israel. The Muslim world hates the United States because it leads the West, a West that they see as exploiting they and their culture. In fact, I would say that at least to some small degree, Muslims hate Israel because it basically constitutes a bastion of westerness in the middle of the Muslim world.
Finally, I would argue that if it were truly impractical to support Israel, than the United States simply would not support it to the degree that they do. I know this sounds like circular logic, but it's very true. Neither the United States nor any other country makes alliances based on principals alone. States always act according to what best serves their agenda. Make no mistake, the United States would, out of principal, and a desire to please its Jews at home, support Israel verbally and diplmatically to a small degree, but it would NOT just give Israel billions in weapons out of mere charity. We strongly supported Taiwan and recognized them as the true China until the point that it was more practical to open more friendly ties with the People's Republic. We did not start to support Israel as strongly as they do today until the 1970's - when it realized that Israel could help counter Soviet influence in the middle east. The United States supports Israel because they feel, for reasons listed above as well as others we may not know about that a strong Israel is vital to our national interests.
Israel helps the US in the ME. It is also a lightning rod for Muslim rage.
But you can also at least make the argument that Israel costs much more than it helps in treasure and entanglements.
If you think my noticing that makes me anti-Israel, I'd like to remind that 76% of American Jewry voted for the anti-Israel candidate in 2004. Not only that, but prominent US Jews donated millions and millions and millions to anti-Israel 527 causes (basically, trying to throw the pro-Israel Bush out of office.)
There are only around 5 M Jews in the US-- that means approx 1 M voted for the pro-Israel candidate.
That is very concerning, for without committed US Jews in the lead, US support for Israel will have to dwindle, and it won't matter what those dreadful Baptists think.
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