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So How Far Did The Phoenicians Really Go In The Region?
Daily Star ^ | 2-23-2004 | Peter Speetjens

Posted on 02/23/2004 8:55:51 AM PST by blam

So how far did the Phoenicians really go in the region?

In one of the early adventures of Asterix and Obelix, a Phoenician trade ship takes the world’s funniest Celtic warriors from the Gaul’s last village free from Roman rule to Queen Cleopatra in the land of the Nile. Now, of course this is but an image in a comic book, but still, is it possible that the Phoenicians, generally known as the greatest seafarers of antiquity, actually reached Brittany, or even further?

There’s no doubt that Phoenicians were well established all over the Mediterranean. Archeological remains prove they lived in a vast network of cities at Cyprus, Malta, Sicily, Spain and the African coast, where Carthage became the powerbroker of the western Mediterranean till the rise of Rome.

Archeological finds take us even further, past Gibraltar’s “Pillars of Hercules,” to Phoenician settlements on the Atlantic coast of Morocco and Portugal. But that’s it. So far no physical proof of any further exploits has been found. However, there are some spectacular written sources.

First of all, there are two Latin texts that relate of the journey of Himilco, who in the 5th century BC sailed from Carthage around Iberia (Spain) to northern Europe. According to these sources, Himilco did not go ashore in Brittany to pick up any Celtic warriors, but crossed the Channel to Great Britain.

“It’s a story not that unlikely,” said Helen Sadr, professor of Archeology at the American University of Beirut. “The Phoenicians always had a keen interest in precious metals and Britain was renowned for its tin, which was already traded over land. What’s more, finds in Britain prove close contacts with Iberia, which for centuries was a colony of Carthage. Combine that with the Phoenician settlements found in Portugal and a journey to England is not that far-fetched.”

A second story about Phoenician exploits stems from the Greek “father of history” Herodotus. In a chapter on the world’s (three) continents in “Histories,” he writes that “as for Libya (Africa), we know it to be washed on all sides by the sea, except where it’s attached to Egypt. This discovery was made by Necos, the Egyptian king, who … sent to sea a number of ships manned by Phoenicians, with orders to make it to the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar) and return to Egypt.”

According to Herodotus the Phoenicians sailed south from the Red Sea. Every autumn they went ashore, sowed corn and waited till it was ripe to set to sail again. It took them three years to get back to Egypt. “On their return,” Herodotus writes, “they declared ­ I for my part do not believe them ­ that in sailing around Libya they had the sun upon their right hand.”

It should be noted that Herodotus, who was born in the 5th century BC, is also known as “the father of lies” and indeed some of his stories, such as on the man-sized desert ants of Persia, are just fables. He himself said that “my business is to record what people say, I’m by no means bound to believe it.” What furthermore speaks in his favor, is that no one believed his accounts of Amazons and a man-made canal between the Nile and the Red Sea, until archeologists proved both actually existed.

To the Greek historian the changed position of the sun in the southern hemisphere was just too much to believe. “It is precisely for that remark,” said Sadr, “that most scholars believe the story is probably true.”

Third, there’s the journey of Hanno, which stems from a Greek text of the 10th century AD. That’s a bit late for a trip that took place some 1,500 years earlier, yet what makes the text plausible are the incredible details described, which were not generally known in 1,000 AD. According to the text, which is said to be a translation from a much older Phoenician tablet, Hanno set sail from Carthage with 60 ships.
After sailing beyond the Pillars of Hercules, Hanno founded several cities on the coast of today’s Morocco. They passed a river called the Lixos, took translators aboard and sailed for days along a large desert coast until they reached a small island called Cerne, which was situated in the mouth of a large river.
According to Hanno, Cerne was as far from the Pillars as is Carthage.

Most scholars agree that the description fits Somalia, and several other texts confirm that the Phoenicians used to trade with Cerne. Sailing onto the river, Hanno and his men saw “mountains crowded with savages clad in skins of wild beasts” and reached a second big river “teeming with crocodiles and hippos.”

They returned to Cerne and sailed further south. Passing the coast, which is described as “mountainous, clad with trees and inhabited by Ethiopians” they reach a large bay where they went ashore. “By day we could see nothing but forest, but by night we saw many fires burning and we heard the sound of flutes and the beating cymbals and drums, and a great din of voices. Fear came upon us and our soothsayers bade us to leave.”

And so they did. Further south they reached a “fiery coast with great streams of fire and lava pouring down into the sea.” The dubbed the volcano “Chariot of the Gods” and continued their journey, till they reached another bay with an “island full of savages.”

“By far the greater number were women with shaggy bodies whom our interpreters called gorillas.” They were unable to catch any of the men, but caught three women, “who bit and mangled those who carried them off.” Hanno’s men decided to kill them and take but their skin to Carthage.

The lively description of the green African coast most probably refers to Cape Verde and Gambia, while the volcano can only be in Guinea or even Cameroon. Again, seeing the settlements in Morocco, and the many existing references to Cerne, most scholars believe the story is true. If so, the many Lebanese living in West Africa are perhaps but following in the footsteps of their ancie- nt ancestors.

Unfortunately, as both Tyre and Carthage were destroyed to the ground, the main sources of Phoenician civilization were forever lost to mankind. We can only imagine what our view of history would be, if the Greek and Romans had done a less thorough job. Some say, the Phoenicians also sailed to India and even reached America.
Now, the latter is most probably a bit too far-fetched, but fact is, that even if only half the stories above is true, the history and map of the world, both of which are predominantly European, may have to be reviewed considerably. So, the Street of Magelaen, named after the Portuguese explorer, south of the African continent may have to be called Phoenician Street.

Peter Speetjens is a Beirut-based freelance writer


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; far; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; how; phoenicia; phoenicians; really; region
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1 posted on 02/23/2004 8:55:51 AM PST by blam
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To: farmfriend
Ping.
2 posted on 02/23/2004 8:56:33 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Phoenicians around 2000 BC built the sacrificial complex at North Salem, New Hampshire, now billed as America's Stonehenge, which remained in use and operation as late as some 100-300 AD.
3 posted on 02/23/2004 8:57:09 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: blam
Supposedly they voyaged to the cornish tin mines.
4 posted on 02/23/2004 9:02:00 AM PST by 1066AD
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To: blam
Asterix and Obelix rock.
5 posted on 02/23/2004 9:02:27 AM PST by MattinNJ (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.)
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To: blam
Hi blam. My Brother that lives around the corner from you has been in Kuwait for over a year and was due home the first week in Feb. He stayed for a couple of months and should have a job at the CGB in Mobile. I am comeing over for the week of July Fourth and will get up with you for some coffe or what ever :-}}. Would really like to see your dogs.
6 posted on 02/23/2004 9:04:11 AM PST by cksharks (quote from)
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To: Chris Talk
Good post! In the past five years wrecked Pheonician vessels have been found off the coast of South America. There are web sites that claim they might have reached England as well. Vikings and Pheonicians were marvelous boat builders and accomplished sailers.
7 posted on 02/23/2004 9:06:48 AM PST by ex-Texan
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To: blam
"So How Far Did The Phoenicians Really Go In The Region?"

Rigel 4; but only during the tourist season
8 posted on 02/23/2004 9:07:22 AM PST by MindBender26 (For more news, first, fast and factual.... Stay tuned to your local FReeper station !!!)
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To: Chris Talk
Do you have a URL for that information? I find it fascinating.

Thanks!

9 posted on 02/23/2004 9:08:14 AM PST by xrp
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To: ex-Texan
MIGHT HAVE REACHED England!

They operated the tin mines in Cornwall and the Scilly Isles for some 2000 years, c2400- c 400 BC.
10 posted on 02/23/2004 9:09:39 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: blam
So how far did the Phoenicians really go in the region?

Did they really make it to Gary, Indiana?

Semper Fi,
11 posted on 02/23/2004 9:11:24 AM PST by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar
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To: xrp
No, I post only from memory, not sources, but I am reasonably sure you could google for America's Stonehenge.

Excellent book by Imbrogno about Celtic Mysteries in New England,

The Phoenicians often brought Celtic laborers over from Tarshish [Tartessos] in southern Iberia, to America in those days.
12 posted on 02/23/2004 9:11:59 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: 2nd Bn, 11th Mar
No, but they made it to Houghton, Michigan, for copper mining...
13 posted on 02/23/2004 9:12:42 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: blam
Tyre? Alexander cleaned them out. Was this not written about the king of Tyre?

Check out Ezekiel 28:
14 posted on 02/23/2004 9:13:47 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Chris Talk
Excellent, thanks for the information.

Have you heard anything about descendants of these "Celtic laborers" wanting reparations from descendants of the Phoenicians?

15 posted on 02/23/2004 9:24:06 AM PST by xrp
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To: cksharks
" I am coming over for the week of July Fourth and will get up with you for some coffee or what ever :-}}"

Okay...keep in touch.

16 posted on 02/23/2004 9:27:26 AM PST by blam
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To: Chris Talk
"Phoenicians around 2000 BC built the sacrificial complex at North Salem, New Hampshire, now billed as America's Stonehenge, which remained in use and operation as late as some 100-300 AD."

America's Stonehenge

17 posted on 02/23/2004 9:34:52 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
I have a friend from Lebanon - who by the way insists he is NOT Arab - he is Phoenician.

He says, that whenever you see a man from the Mediterranean region, whether from Lebanon, or Greece, or Italy, or France, Spain, Egypt etc. If he is short, pudgy and bald, "he is one of us", says my friend.

It's kinda funny, but it may be true.

18 posted on 02/23/2004 9:36:03 AM PST by keithtoo (W '04 - I'll pass on the ketchup-boy.)
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To: Chris Talk
"No, but they made it to Houghton, Michigan, for copper mining..."

A Short History Of Copper Mining (Michigan)

"Scientists and engineers estimate that it would have required 10,000 men 1,000 years to develop the extensive operations carried on throughout the region. It is estimated that 1.5 billion pounds of copper were mined by these unknown people."

19 posted on 02/23/2004 9:40:50 AM PST by blam
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To: keithtoo
"If he is short, pudgy and bald, "he is one of us", says my friend."

That does not fit my image of Phoenicians...

20 posted on 02/23/2004 9:42:23 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Know any Lebanese guys? My friend fits this description, so does my son's soccer coach, also from Lebanon. Its only a half-joke anyway, not to be taken too seriously.
21 posted on 02/23/2004 9:48:01 AM PST by keithtoo (W '04 - I'll pass on the ketchup-boy.)
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To: blam




The account here of the journey of Hanno does not make sense to me.

After passing out of the Mediterranean through the Pillars of Hercules, he comes to Cerne, which is supposed to be Somalia? That's on the wrong side of the continent. Then he goes to Western Africa (Gambia or Cameroon) and captures gorillas? Did he take the trans-African highway?


22 posted on 02/23/2004 9:53:53 AM PST by Sabertooth (Malcontent for Bush - 2004!)
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To: blam
So how far did the Phoenicians really go in the region?

Nashville, where they made that album.

Hooked on..

23 posted on 02/23/2004 10:04:01 AM PST by FreedomFarmer (WARNING: Exceeds RDA of Acerbic Acid!)
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To: Sabertooth
The Voyage Of Hanno
24 posted on 02/23/2004 10:06:15 AM PST by blam
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To: Chris Talk
Excuse me, Cornwall is not England.
25 posted on 02/23/2004 10:07:26 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Uday and Qusay are ead-day)
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To: blam
I had a friend from Rumania...he said there is an old Rumanian expression ... someone does a favor for someone else and the statement "How can I ever thank you" is made.

The reply is something to the effect of "not a problem, ever since the Phonecians invented money".


26 posted on 02/23/2004 10:08:09 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten (a little Rumanian/Phonecian humor)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
"The reply is something to the effect of "not a problem, ever since the Phonecians invented money". "

So, what does it mean?

27 posted on 02/23/2004 10:25:39 AM PST by blam
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
LOL.

Cornishmen still a breed apart, eh? However, Cornwall has been legally a part of England for many centuries now.

If you have a good Pahsti (sp) recipe, you may freepmail it to me.

Best, c.
28 posted on 02/23/2004 10:35:29 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: blam
It means that if someone ever says to you "How can I ever repay you" your are basically saying "cash is good" - reference to the Phonecians supposedly coming up with the concept of cash (which may or may not be historically accurate).
29 posted on 02/23/2004 10:38:19 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; A.J.Armitage; abner; adam_az; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

30 posted on 02/23/2004 12:08:52 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: 1066AD
The Cousin Jacks may not have conquered the world but stoped and timbered it. :>
31 posted on 02/23/2004 12:37:52 PM PST by JimSEA ( "More Bush, Less Taxes.")
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To: blam
What furthermore speaks in his favor, is that no one believed his accounts of Amazons and a man-made canal between the Nile and the Red Sea, until archeologists proved both actually existed.

Archeologists proved that Amazons existed? Great Hera!


32 posted on 02/23/2004 12:43:00 PM PST by COBOL2Java (If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier.)
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To: blam
Thanks, very interesting post. I have become increasingly convinced that the Phoenicians and Carthaginians are a key to putting together some of the missing pieces in the story of pre-Columbian America. One question I have on that which I'm hoping you or someone else out there may have some info on: are there any American Indian tribes that scholars have suggested have linguistic or cultural similarities to the Phoenicians? I've noticed a few things among the American Indians that stike me as reminiscent of Scythian/Celtic culture, which has led me to wonder if possibly these traits may have been transmitted to America via Phoenician trade. Any thoughts/links?
33 posted on 02/23/2004 1:10:45 PM PST by Fedora
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To: blam
Wasn't there something about one of the sources of King Solomon's temple treasures (Ophir) being on the West coast of india -- a land traded through the Red Sea? I think it would be pretty certain that the Phoenicians would have had trading posts in the Gulf of Aqaba to trade with Yemen, Ethiopia, East Africa and West India.
34 posted on 02/23/2004 1:17:39 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: ex-Texan
There are web sites that claim they might have reached England as well. Vikings and Pheonicians were marvelous boat builders and accomplished sailers.

The phoenicians reaching Britain seems highly possible and regular trading seems equally likely -- after all the Phoenician legends DO talk about the islands of tin. As for them reaching America, possible, but not a regular trading occurence (though I'm again looking at it from a modern perspective -- the ancients would have thought nothin of a 3 to 4 year trading journey, carried out once in say 20 years or longer, like the Old Kingdom traded with Ethiopia c 2000 B.C.).

The Viking ships were more built for speed and attack, not trade. but they were great ship builders -- for different reasons than the Phoenicians -- getting away from their miserable, infertile, northern lands.
35 posted on 02/23/2004 1:21:28 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: COBOL2Java
Yes, the archaeological proof of Amazons continues to receive increasing corroboration:


36 posted on 02/23/2004 1:21:36 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Just mythoughts
Yes, Carthage was originally a colony of Tyre.
37 posted on 02/23/2004 1:22:37 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: keithtoo
He says, that whenever you see a man from the Mediterranean region, whether from Lebanon, or Greece, or Italy, or France, Spain, Egypt etc. If he is short, pudgy and bald, "he is one of us", says my friend. It's kinda funny, but it may be true.

Very true. The Phoenician genes are supposed to be exceptionally strong in Sicily and Corsica.
38 posted on 02/23/2004 1:23:43 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Excuse me, Cornwall is not England.

Ah, a West country man, eh? But Cornwall was 'officially' part of England. Cornwall would be the last refuge of the Brythons -- Arthur's forts are supposed to be there.
39 posted on 02/23/2004 1:25:45 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: MindBender26
"So How Far Did The Phoenicians Really Go In The Region?

Rigel 4; but only during the tourist season"

Actually, I got it from the head Phonician hisself that he regularly got to 2nd base on the first date, occasionally got to third, and once, even got a home run.

But I think that was with Dido. Everyone knew she was easy.
40 posted on 02/23/2004 1:26:57 PM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: Fedora
I've noticed a few things among the American Indians that stike me as reminiscent of Scythian/Celtic culture, which has led me to wonder if possibly these traits may have been transmitted to America via Phoenician trade. Any thoughts/links?
Could you please point out those similarities? My knowledge on South American tribes is pretty sketchy, but what you've said sounds very very interesting.
41 posted on 02/23/2004 1:28:47 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Cronos
Wasn't there something about one of the sources of King Solomon's temple treasures (Ophir) being on the West coast of india -- a land traded through the Red Sea? I think it would be pretty certain that the Phoenicians would have had trading posts in the Gulf of Aqaba to trade with Yemen, Ethiopia, East Africa and West India.

Yes; and the Table of Nations in Genesis 10 also mentions a number of nations on the trade route between the Red Sea and India. Josephus comments on this in Book I Chapter 6 of his Antiquities of the Jews, where he mentions, "Shem, the third son of Noah, had five sons, who inhabited the land that began at Euphrates, and reached to the Indian Ocean." Also, Herodotus mentions this interesting fact about the Phoenicians in the opening sentences of Book I of his History:

According to the Persians best informed in history, the Phoenicians. . .had formerly dwelt on the shores the Erythraean Sea [Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf], having migrated to the Mediterranean and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the wares of Egypt and Assyria. They landed at many places on the coast, and among the rest at Argos, which was then pre-eminent above all the states included now under the common name of Hellas [Greece].

42 posted on 02/23/2004 1:36:22 PM PST by Fedora
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To: No Truce With Kings
The Greek Gods, though Indo-European in origin, seem to have acquired a veneer of the Semitic Gods thorough the Pheonicians via the Minoans and Myceneans. For instance, the legend of the Minotaur seems to have some relations to the bull cult in phoenicia -- wasn't Olympia said to have been impregnated by a Bull? And the idea of families of Gods being overthrown was suggested to be related to the different deities worshipped -- the old Phoenician Gods being replaced by Minoan Gods (the Titans) who were then replaced in turn by the Gods on Mount olympus.
43 posted on 02/23/2004 1:45:00 PM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Chris Talk; Sabertooth
“By far the greater number were women with shaggy bodies whom our interpreters called gorillas.” They were unable to catch any of the men, but caught three women, “who bit and mangled those who carried them off.”

Poor souls really t'd off some feminazis.

Hanno’s men decided to kill them and take but their skin to Carthage.

They obviously knew how to put these NOW/NAG initiates in their place.

44 posted on 02/23/2004 1:56:32 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: No Truce With Kings
Yeah, you are right.

You power those reed boats with good quality dilithium, use fresh Crest toothpaste as a zipper and you can make the jump from Tripoli to Rigel 4 in less than 7 parsecs, and still have time to find out who's on first!
45 posted on 02/23/2004 2:11:20 PM PST by MindBender26 (For more news, first, fast and factual.... Stay tuned to your local FReeper station !!!)
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To: Cronos
I've noticed a few things among the American Indians that stike me as reminiscent of Scythian/Celtic culture, which has led me to wonder if possibly these traits may have been transmitted to America via Phoenician trade. Any thoughts/links?

Could you please point out those similarities? My knowledge on South American tribes is pretty sketchy, but what you've said sounds very very interesting.

I was thinking of North and Central American tribes moreso than South, though that might also make for interesting comparison. I'm afraid I don't have my notes on this handy, so I will need to look up some things to get the details accurate, but off the top of my head for the sake of discussion, it seems like the similarities I noticed were in things like dress/fashion, warfare customs (incl. dress/fashion related to warfare customs like warpaint--I believe warpaint was one of the first things I noticed that got me thinking about this subject), burial customs, and certain religious elements. I'm trying to find a good link right now that sums up some of this stuff. This link isn't precisely on that subject, but it includes some relevant information:

http://www.tattooheaven.com/CentAsia.html

Ancient Tatooed People of Central Asia

TATTOOED MUMMIES OF CENTRAL ASIA

Mummies have been found in Central Asia! Though these curious Caucasian mummies in the deserts of western China were first discovered by Western archaeologists in the early 20th century, they were considered anomalies---perhaps just ancient travelers or immigrants. Over the past thirty years Chinese archeologists have unearthed hundreds more of these mummified Caucasoids (as well as abundant skeletal remains amounting to thousands of ancient individuals) in the Tarim basin of Central Asia. The Tarim is in the huge Taklamakan desert in the western Chinese province of Xinjiang, formerly known as eastern Turkestan.

Today the ancient Chinese texts which speak of legendary tall people with red hair and green eyes (formerly denigrated as mere "myths") are being reinterpreted. They are not just imaginary tales as has been assumed until recently, but they tell of the very real Tocharian-branch Indo-European people, relatives of the Celts and Scythians, who possibly controlled the Silk Road during Middle and Egyptian New Kingdom times, and down to the Classical Greek era. They certainly would have been involved in the transmission of technology and culture between East and West at a very early date.

The time span of the Central Asian Caucasoids is from 2500 BC to 400 B.C. The location is within a few hundred miles of the Altai "Scythian" burials which date from approximately 500-300 BC. There is definitly some connection here. There is also a connection between the Taklamakan people and the Crimean Scyths, the Celts and the Picts. They likely influenced the "indigenous" tattooing of the tribal peoples of India, and possibly are antecedent to the Jomon culture of Japan (ancestors of the tattooed Ainu). There is credible evidence that some of the tattooing tribes of northern Asia migrated eastward to become certain tribes in the Americas as well.

[SNIP]

Compare that with this:

http://www.tylwythteg.com/pict1.html

But in interpreting these comments, it must be understood that the classical "anthropological" tradition involved a great deal of repeating and interpreting the claims of earlier writers, and extremely little direct observation and eye-witness report. An example of the pseudo-history repeated by Bede claims a Scythian origin for the Picts, but this seems no more than an attempt to connect them with another people described in classical writings as "Picti". Other pseudo-histories carefully list wanderings and emigrations of "the Picts" that would connect them with every place or ethnic name resembling "pict" (such as the Pictones of Gaul, whose name became modern Poictou) and every mention of skin-painting or tattooing. A great deal of the material repeated by Isidore and Bede and similar writers is demonstrably false. Other parts can be corroborated by archaeological methods. But any use of this sort of material must involve several large grains of salt. Of all the early writers that mention "painting", only Caesar seems to have been an eye-witness, and his observations would have been concerned with the inhabitants of southern Britain, the Celtic peoples that he explicitly calls "Britanni".

That's just one example I happen to have handy. I will need to collect my notes on some others. Here's one other I happen to have at hand which is on a slightly different aspect of this. I was relating this to some of the discussion of ancient American runes in Barry Fell's work:

http://www.crystalinks.com/runes.html

[SNIP]

When Bisop Wulfila made his translation of the Bible into fourth century Gothic, he rendered St. Mark's "the mystery of the kingdom of God" using "runa" for "mystery.

Eight centuries earlier, when Greek historian Herodotus traveled around the Black Sea, he encountered descendants of Scythian tribesmen who crawled under blankets, smoked themselves into a stupor, and cast marked sticks in the air and "read" them when they fell. These sticks were used as Rune sticks.

There is no firm agreeement among scholars as to where and when runic writing first made its appearance in Western Europe. Before Germanic peoples possessed any form of script, they used pictorial symbols that they scratched onto rocks.

[SNIP]

By 100 AD the Runes were already becoming widely known on the European Continent. They were carried from place to place by traders, adventurers, and warriors, and eventually by Anglo-Saxon missionaries.

[SNIP]

46 posted on 02/23/2004 2:35:25 PM PST by Fedora
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To: blam
?By far the greater number were women with shaggy bodies whom our interpreters called gorillas.? They were unable to catch any of the men, but caught three women, ?who bit and mangled those who carried them off.? Hanno?s men decided to kill them and take but their skin to Carthage.

So the Phonecians made it all the way to the SF Bay Area...

47 posted on 02/23/2004 2:38:14 PM PST by skeeter
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To: No Truce With Kings
Actually, I got it from the head Phonician hisself that he regularly got to 2nd base on the first date, occasionally got to third, and once, even got a home run.

But I think that was with Dido. Everyone knew she was easy.

And as a result, because Dido was so easy to catch, within two centuries of the Phoenicians landing in the New World, the Dido became extinct. Today the Dido is only seen in museums, and bad music videos.

48 posted on 02/23/2004 2:40:44 PM PST by Fedora
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To: MindBender26
You power those reed boats with good quality dilithium, use fresh Crest toothpaste as a zipper and you can make the jump from Tripoli to Rigel 4 in less than 7 parsecs, and still have time to find out who's on first!

The Phoenicians were also able to make the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. Not their local bulk cruisers, mind you, I'm talking about the big Corellian ships now.

49 posted on 02/23/2004 2:42:40 PM PST by Fedora
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To: 2nd Bn, 11th Mar
Did they really make it to Gary, Indiana?

Naw, only made it to Arizona where to this day the city of Phoenix they founded still stands ;-)

50 posted on 02/23/2004 2:54:09 PM PST by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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