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Mueller orders review of bombing investigation 2004-02-27 -- OKC Bombing
Breaking News The Oklahoman ^ | Feb 27, 2004 | John Solomon, AP

Posted on 02/27/2004 4:49:24 PM PST by PhiKapMom

Mueller orders review of bombing investigation

2004-02-27

By JOHN SOLOMON
.c The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) - The FBI on Friday ordered a formal review of some aspects of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing investigation, reopening the question of whether Timothy McVeigh may have had more accomplices in the worst domestic terrorist attack in U.S. history, The Associated Press has learned.

Reacting to an AP story earlier this week, the FBI ordered agents to determine why some documents did not properly reach the bureau's Oklahoma City task force during the original investigation or get turned over to McVeigh's lawyers before he was executed in 2001, officials said.

The review of evidence and documents will also try to determine whether FBI agents in a separate investigation of white supremacist bank robbers may have failed to alert the Oklahoma City investigation of a possible link between the robbers and McVeigh, and allowed some of that evidence to be destroyed.

AP reported Wednesday that documents never introduced at McVeigh's trial showed FBI agents destroyed evidence and failed to share other information that raised the possibility that a gang of white supremacist bank robbers may have assisted McVeigh.

The evidence includes documents showing the Aryan Republican Army bank robbers possessed explosive blasting caps similar to those McVeigh stole and a driver's license with the name of a central player who was robbed in the Oklahoma City plot.

The documents don't prove additional accomplices were involved - blasting caps are plentiful and the gang was expert in document fraud. But the FBI agent who ran the investigation, Dan Defenbaugh, said his team never got the chance to investigate the evidence and he called for the probe to be reopened.

The April 19, 1995, bombing killed more than 160 people and McVeigh was put to death for it in 2001. His co-defendant, Terry Nichols, will stand trial in Oklahoma next week on state charges that could carry the death penalty.

Nichols' attorneys asked Thursday for the trial to be delayed in light of the AP story, but the judge refused.

FBI officials and Nichols' attorneys declined comment Friday night, citing a gag order in the case.

Government officials, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, said the review will be handled by the FBI's inspection division, a unit of senior agents that routinely conducts reviews to ensure the bureau follows its own rules and conducts investigations properly.

The officials said the review was ordered ``out of an abundance of caution'' to ensure that any questions about additional conspirators be put to rest.

It is not the first time issues in the McVeigh case have had to be reopened. In 2001, the Justice Department was forced to conduct an internal investigation to determine why 4,000 pages of documents from the case were belatedly turned over to defense lawyers just days before McVeigh was supposed to be executed. The revelation prompted a one-month delay in the investigation.

Peter Langan, one member of the ARA robbery gang, told AP he plans to testify at Nichols' trial that federal prosecutors several years ago offered and then withdrew a plea deal for information he had about the Oklahoma City bombing.

Langan said he plans to testify that at least three fellow gang members were in Oklahoma around the time of the bombing and one later told him that they had become involved.

Agents who worked both the McVeigh bombing and the bank robbery spree - two of the FBI's highest priority cases of the 1990s - said they suspected a link between the two because of physical evidence as well as statements made by the robbers and a girlfriend.

The agents said they ruled out a connection when the bank robbers denied their involvement and provided an alibi showing they left Oklahoma three days before McVeigh's bomb detonated outside the Alfred P. Murrah federal building on April 19, 1995.

That alibi, however, was contradicted by information Langan offered prosecutors and by car sales records that showed the bank robbers were still in the Oklahoma area after they claimed to have left, FBI documents show.

McVeigh in 1994 stole from a quarry hundreds of construction blasting caps, some which he used to explode the Oklahoma City bomb. The FBI spent months unsuccessfully trying to locate many of the other stolen caps.

Agents collected witness testimony that McVeigh had placed some of the extra caps in two boxes wrapped in Christmas paper in the back of his car along with mercury switches and duffel bags.

One electric and five non-electric blasting caps were found in the Aryan Republican Army robbers' Ohio hideout in January 1996, along with mercury switches, a duffel bag and two items described as a ``Christmas package,'' FBI records show. The FBI allowed firefighters to destroy the caps at the scene, and they were never compared to the Oklahoma case.

FBI agents in the robbery case also determined that the bank robbers had an Arkansas driver's license in the name of Robert Miller, the alias name used by Arkansas gun dealer Roger Moore.

The government contended at McVeigh's trial that Moore was robbed at his Hot Springs, Ark., home in November 1994, and the proceeds were used to fund the Oklahoma City bombing.

One of the bank robbers, Mark Thomas, claimed in a newspaper in 1997 that one of his gang was involved in the Oklahoma bombing. And Thomas' ex-girlfriend told FBI agents her boyfriend stated shortly before he traveled to an Oklahoma white supremacist compound in spring 1995 that a federal building was about to be bombed.

02/27/04 19:33 EST


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: aryanrepublicanarmy; bojinka; coverup; defenbaugh; fbi; fredthompson; mcveigh; murrah; nichols; okc; okcbombing; thomas
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What did the Clintons, Freeh, and Reno know and when did they know it?
1 posted on 02/27/2004 4:49:25 PM PST by PhiKapMom
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To: PhiKapMom
This is a surprise, though it goes way back to the Aryan link, not the ME connection.
2 posted on 02/27/2004 4:51:30 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: deport
Look at this. Been saying for sometime that McVeigh and his stooge, Terry Nichols, were not the only people involved. There still is the subject of the extra leg they found in the building.

3 posted on 02/27/2004 4:52:10 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
My understanding is that the feds will only be focusing on the links McVey and Nichols had to white supremist groups.

It's a pity they don't explore the links Nichols had to Islamic terrorists as outlined in several books but especially well researched in The Two Jackals, written in 1999 (pre 9/11 when this all became a political football).
4 posted on 02/27/2004 4:52:31 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: rwfromkansas
It is a shock they are going to reopen. Was told by someone a long time ago if they could link the Aryan group that you would eventually find the Middle East connection and their money.

Is that true? I have no idea but there are too many people saw a Middle Eastern type with McVeigh not to wonder. Not to mention Nichols visit to the Philippines which we now know had terrorists.

Would say a lot of the story is yet to be written and that Terry Nichols is not going to sit there and say nothing at his trial -- hope he blows the whole thing wide open in order not to get the death penalty.

One of the family members of someone in the bombing was on the radio today saying that she is receiving correspondence and has been for years that the two -- McVeigh and Nichols -- did not act alone and it went farther than eastern OK.
5 posted on 02/27/2004 4:55:38 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
I wish I could still get excited about news like this.

Thanks for the post, though. ;-) Good find.
6 posted on 02/27/2004 4:56:25 PM PST by Nita Nupress (Free Republic *IS* the new press..................Heh, heh, heh.. Don't you just *LOVE* it?!)
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To: Peach
Don't be too sure -- I heard on the radio this afternoon that the original McVeigh lawyer may have a few things to say. I told RWfromKansas that I heard the Ayrian Link would lead to the Middle East sometime ago if they could get the FBI to reopen the files.
7 posted on 02/27/2004 4:57:39 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
I honestly think that Klinton would not have won election in 96 if it wasn't for McVeigh and the rest of them.
8 posted on 02/27/2004 4:58:14 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Here I go, again on my own. Goin' down the only road I;ve ever known")
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To: PhiKapMom
have no idea but there are too many people saw a Middle Eastern type with McVeigh not to wonder.

Notice how that aspect got buried *real* fast?!

9 posted on 02/27/2004 4:59:21 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick
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To: PhiKapMom
The first cover-up failed... The second cover-up will apparently cover-up the ME connection... but it will be interesting to see Strassmeir investigated further. Why was this German Military Intelligence working for ATF at Eloheim City?
10 posted on 02/27/2004 5:00:43 PM PST by Lexington Green (It just ain't right to ask an American soldier to salute John Kerry.)
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To: Nita Nupress
When The Oklahoman does breaking news it is big news here in OK -- I never get a news alert from them at this time of night. Been all over the radio for several days that the Government case in the OKC Bombing was about to unravel.

The Judge in McAlaster ruled that two witnesses can testify in the Court case of Nichols that the defense wanted to testify which was a blow to the Prosecutor's office. Knew something big was coming because Nichols offered to plead no contest in exchange for life in prison and they turned him down. Not totally sure the Prosecutor's office is that unhappy as most people in this area just want the truth.

That Murrah Building came down way too fast -- ordered by the Clintons and Reno. I have said ever since the Bombing Museum opened that both Clintons look like the cat that swallowed the canary at the Memorial Service that is a huge mural in the Museum. She is as happy as a lark and so is he with everyone around them devastated.
11 posted on 02/27/2004 5:02:15 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
What did the Clintons, Freeh, and Reno know and when did they know it?

There are plenty of threads on FR that try to answer that very question. Finding them may be something of a challenge, though.

12 posted on 02/27/2004 5:02:43 PM PST by independentmind
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To: PhiKapMom
Should I go invest in some aluminum foil stock? Or do you think this may be the real deal?
13 posted on 02/27/2004 5:02:50 PM PST by deport (FOR SALE: Iraqi rifle, Never fired, Dropped once)
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To: PhiKapMom
I don't expect anything to come of this, regretably. Mueller must have felt some heat, so he is going through the motions. But he has already shown himself eager to cover up for clinton and promote and reward clintonoids within the bureau.
14 posted on 02/27/2004 5:07:20 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Dan from Michigan
He would not have won reelection in 1996 without the Bombing and yet Oklahomans hated him and his wife because of their actions during the Bombing. It was nothing more than a photo op for them. They tried to make the Country understand but no one would listen. Remember how he made the remark that this just got him reelected. He was right -- stupid people fell for it.

In fact, when they dedicated the Bombing Memorial, the families of the victims refused to have Clinton or Reno attend the dinner that day at noon before the dedication but our whole Congressional delegation did attend. Clinton got mad and arrived late at Tinker AFB an had to be rushed downtown to the Service blocking off main arteries. Then the lowlife did a photo op after he had promised Gov Keating he wouldn't. His aide knocked a rose off of one of the chairs and he stooped to pick it up with cameras flashing -- same with posting the reflecting pool -- photo ops galore. He arrived late and go very little response from the people gathered.

I remember watching on TV and one of the anchors asked why Reno was even bothering to come or Clinton. They were not happy that our Governor and Congressional delegation were kept waiting forever at Tinker AFB as Clinton took off late from NM.
15 posted on 02/27/2004 5:07:44 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Nicols can litterly "blow the lid" of this country if he names his Iraq and Al Qaida connections. It's may our greatest hope. Freepoers should try to get in with Nichols and ask for HIS FULL COOPERATIN.He'd bring down the "DIRT" in our Gov't and a NEW REPUBLIC can begin
16 posted on 02/27/2004 5:09:51 PM PST by captbarney
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To: Peach
There's that John Doe 2 picture that looks so much like Padilla. They have Padilla in custody, so, maybe the clintonistas should worry.
17 posted on 02/27/2004 5:09:56 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: PhiKapMom
Can someone tell me. Did some people stay home that day.If they did and that is a big if WHY.
18 posted on 02/27/2004 5:11:51 PM PST by Carton boy (,)
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To: independentmind
Have been involved in some of those. Figured I would throw Hillary's words back at her.

If those two lowlifes along with Reno and Freeh didn't know something was going to happen, I would be the most surprised person in the world.

Don't you find it odd that one of the Federal Law Enforcement agents that was killed in the bombing was a USSS agent for President Bush #41. Present George W Bush was really shooken up about the agent when he talked about visiting the room where they have articles from each of the victims in these glass boxes. He choked up when speaking at the dedication of the Museum Memorial. I took my youngest daughter to see him speak and you could see the strong emotion as he spoke.

All people want is the truth -- it is going to come out sooner or later! Too many people are questioning just what happened and have been since 9/11. I hope that Terry Nichols spills everything he knows including who he met in the Phillipines.
19 posted on 02/27/2004 5:13:33 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: Carton boy
USSS did not stay home BUT some Feds had a "picnic" in the morning and the number of Feds in the building was very small in relation to how many worked there. As I mentioned earlier, a USSS Agent killed had been on the team of President Bush 41 -- he was there that morning. Another agent survived the bombing and made a sign on the top floor he was alive. Most Federal agents were NOT in the building at 9:03 that morning!
20 posted on 02/27/2004 5:16:07 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: captbarney
The trial is over in McAlister not in OKC. The best hope are the family members of victims. Some of them are pretty vocal and would bet they will be part of the spectators in the Courtroom. The best news is that the Judge doesn't seem to be putting up with any nonsense.

There is something going on with Nichols because when the State turned down his no-contest plea for not getting the death penalty, all of a sudden witnesses started coming forward. Bet we haven't heard the last of Nichols.

Personally believe that McVeigh was NEVER going to talk -- he wanted to be a martyr -- not Terry Nichols -- have a hunch he is going to start singing even more in exchange for not receiving the death penalty. Always felt he was the weak link.
21 posted on 02/27/2004 5:19:44 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
It's about time!

There have been lots of rumors about the FBI deliberately ignoring potential connection to Al Qaeda terrorists.

22 posted on 02/27/2004 5:39:21 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: PhiKapMom
"...I heard the Ayrian Link would lead to the Middle East..."

I'm waiting to learn who put out the BOLO on several Middle Eastern men immediately after the bombing. That information is documented but no explanation has ever been offered to my knowledge.
23 posted on 02/27/2004 5:40:24 PM PST by Ben Hecks
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To: All; PhiKapMom

John Doe #2 = Jose Padilla
24 posted on 02/27/2004 5:42:18 PM PST by Spunky (This little tag just keeps following me where ever I go.)
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To: PhiKapMom
Don't forget Web Hubbel, the White House bag man on the day the farmhouse and everyone in it was burned to a crisp. Janet was out.
25 posted on 02/27/2004 5:45:56 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: PhiKapMom
Don't be too sure -- I heard on the radio this afternoon that the original McVeigh lawyer may have a few things to say. I told RWfromKansas that I heard the Ayrian Link would lead to the Middle East sometime ago if they could get the FBI to reopen the files.

When The Oklahoman does breaking news it is big news here in OK -- I never get a news alert from them at this time of night. Been all over the radio for several days that the Government case in the OKC Bombing was about to unravel.

The Judge in McAlaster ruled that two witnesses can testify in the Court case of Nichols that the defense wanted to testify which was a blow to the Prosecutor's office. Knew something big was coming because Nichols offered to plead no contest in exchange for life in prison and they turned him down. Not totally sure the Prosecutor's office is that unhappy as most people in this area just want the truth.

 

Well, well, well... Now I may get a little bit excited.

Every since Ashcroft hurried McVeigh's execution, I've held out a thin sliver of hope that Dubya was just waiting until the 2004 election cycle to let Clinton's OKC cover-up and subsequent re-election charade collapse. 

It sure would take care of the "Hillary!" menace once and for all.

From my keyboard to God's ears...

26 posted on 02/27/2004 5:47:35 PM PST by Nita Nupress (Free Republic *IS* the new press..................Heh, heh, heh.. Don't you just *LOVE* it?!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Some depositions were never turned in. One was still sitting in a courthouse in Idabel, OK(far southeastern corner of the state. As far as I know its still there.
27 posted on 02/27/2004 5:48:15 PM PST by dalebert
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To: deport
Should I go invest in some aluminum foil stock? Or do you think this may be the real deal?

Buy a few cases of foil for your personal use.

From what I've read about Langan, he's going to make the OKC link through one of the members of the ARA who committed suicide shortly after the arrests, one Richard Guthrie. What Guthrie said or didn't say can't be confirmed because, well, he's dead.

28 posted on 02/27/2004 5:53:07 PM PST by Catspaw
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To: Ben Hecks; Wallaby
I'm waiting to learn who put out the BOLO on several Middle Eastern men immediately after the bombing. That information is documented but no explanation has ever been offered to my knowledge.

We've documented this before via old news articles but I don't think I have that bookmarked. Maybe Wallaby does.

From memory, the local OKC law enforcement and FBI put out the BELO immediately after the bombing and subsequent eyewitness accounts. Within hours, the FBI bureaucrats in DC and/or the Clinton's apparently gave the orders to pull the BELO.

29 posted on 02/27/2004 5:53:49 PM PST by Nita Nupress (Free Republic *IS* the new press..................Heh, heh, heh.. Don't you just *LOVE* it?!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Extra LEG? Really? Nothing else? Go figure.
30 posted on 02/27/2004 5:57:55 PM PST by walden
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To: independentmind; PhiKapMom; *OKCbombing
"There are plenty of threads on FR that try to answer that very question. Finding them may be something of a challenge, though"

Ahem.

31 posted on 02/27/2004 6:01:48 PM PST by Vigilantcitizen
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To: Ben Hecks; Wallaby
Here it is. Scroll at least halfway down and look for the green highlighted "three middle eastern men" words where I made a post to the FReeper "job" with one of the articles.
(It's two replies after the photo of Bill Clinton with his hand up Schiff's leg.)

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:IV3bXl0y6XgJ:209.157.64.200/~nitanupress/in-forum+fbi+%22three+middle+eastern+men%22+nupress+%22oklahoma+city%22+bombing&hl=en&start=2&ie=UTF-8
32 posted on 02/27/2004 6:02:26 PM PST by Nita Nupress (Free Republic *IS* the new press..................Heh, heh, heh.. Don't you just *LOVE* it?!)
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To: PhiKapMom
No kidding!!! That would be great. If you see anything further on this and think of it, ping me.

This matter has fascinated me for a long time.
33 posted on 02/27/2004 6:10:38 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Ben Hecks; Wallaby
Okay, this is a better one and the one I was originally looking for. I think I'll just go get it and paste it here. It gives the reader a good idea on how the cover-up began and how fast it got started.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/719338/posts?page=41#41
34 posted on 02/27/2004 6:10:59 PM PST by Nita Nupress (Free Republic *IS* the new press..................Heh, heh, heh.. Don't you just *LOVE* it?!)
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To: Nita Nupress
You are correct. I heard the BOLO (Be On the Look Out) on the Middle eastern man with my own ears. I had (have) several scanners on that day. It was issued almost immediately.

I went to college with a girl whose father was a wittness to the two individuals. I never did follow up to see what happened (if he was ever called to the trial). He was positive the individuals he saw were McVeigh and (John Doe#2).
35 posted on 02/27/2004 6:11:53 PM PST by jbstrick (War is not fought for peace. War is fought for victory.)
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To: Ben Hecks
I remember the Bolo -- had to do with renting a vehicle at the Dallas airport. Was living outside of San Antonio at the time and the alert came down there the two Middle Eastern men might go there instead of Dallas.

Then it disappeared off the TV and never heard anymore about it.

Will bet money the Aryian connection leads to foreign terrorist if they are willing to follow the trail. I know Stephen Jones from Enid (I think) was convinced there was as Middle Eastern connection and he was McVeigh's attorney who actually got pretty fed up with McVeigh not wanting to defend himself.

36 posted on 02/27/2004 6:13:57 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Interesting. It would be interesting to talk to th person who called in.
37 posted on 02/27/2004 6:14:43 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: All
To: glorygirl; All
How about a stroll down Memory Lane just so we won't forget? Here are some chronological excerpts that give a picture of just how fast Bill Clinton decided to hide the Middle Eastern connection.

(I tried to highlight the most interesting information with bold text. It also includes sidebar info on those 10 Arabic interpreters in red, and my own comments are in blueSorry; I couldn't help it.)

Porter Goss and Bob Graham -- Are you listening?

Nita

 


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

ABC World News Tonight 6:30 pm ET 
April 19, 1995 (Wednesday)

Bomb Rips Apart Federal Building in Oklahoma City 


(snip -- I'm including this first segment so we can all reminisce on what Peter Jennings was reporting on April 19th...)

PETER JENNINGS: The police are very interested in finding three [Middle Eastern] men who were allegedly seen speeding north out of Oklahoma City.  [Poor Peter just couldn't bring himself to say the "M.E." words, could he?]  The FBI has put out an all-points bulletin - an APB, you'll hear it referred to. That's a message to police departments all across the region with details of what the three men look like and, in this case, what they may be driving. 

Here's ABC's John McWethy. 

JOHN McWETHY: [voice-over] Within hours of the explosion, local police and the FBI had issued the all-points bulletin looking for three men believed to be of Middle Eastern origin, driving in a brown pickup truck registered in Dallas. National Car Rental Company confirmed that the FBI had been talking to them about a rental truck fitting that description. 

The fact that it was such a powerful bomb in Oklahoma City immediately drew investigators to consider deadly parallels that all have roots in the Middle East. The car bomb has been a weapon of choice in the region for decades. And in recent years, the skillful bomb makers of the region have exported their skills and often their extremist hatreds all over the world. 

The first horrible evidence of that in the United States was the World Trade Center bombing in 1993. Officials estimate the charge that ripped into the federal building in Oklahoma City was the equivalent of more than 1,000 pounds of dynamite, similar to the blast that terrorists used at the World Trade Center. 

VINCE CANNISTRARO, ABC News Consultant: This is something professional. And it really implies that the person who constructed the explosive device had experience, was trained in the use of explosives, knew what they were doing. 

JOHN McWETHY: [voice-over] The FBI and other federal agencies are setting up a massive task force in Oklahoma City. Sources say the FBI has been watching dozens of suspicious Islamic groups in cities throughout the American southwest and several right in Oklahoma City. 

[on camera] As a further indication of where the investigation is headed, ABC News has learned that the FBI has asked the U.S. military to provide up to 10 Arabic speakers to help in the investigation. The FBI says all options continue to be open, though on this first day at least, it appears that much of the FBI's energy is focused in just one direction. 


John McWethy, ABC News, the Pentagon. 


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

APRIL 20, 1995, Thursday 
Defense Dept. Briefing  

Defense Department Special Briefing Re: U.S. Military Support for Oklahoma City  

BRIEFER: Major General Robert H. Scales, Jr, Director, Military Support, Dept. of Defense 

(First, Kenneth Bacon on the hot seat:)

KENNETH BACON: Welcome. Major General Robert Scales, the director of Military Support, will be the primary briefer today. He'll give you a rundown of Defense Department assistance in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing. If you have any questions on other topics, I'll respond to them after General Scales completes his briefing. 

Before he starts, I'd like to make just one point here. The 36 people who died in the bombing include an Army sergeant who worked in the recruiting station in the federal building, and a child of a soldier. Two soldiers are in critical condition. Four Marines and one civilian were sent to the hospital. Thirteen DOD personnel remain unaccounted for. We send our heartfelt sympathy out to the families of these and the other victims of the bombing, and we, of course, join the president in condemning this murderous event. [Ri-i-i-i-ght, Kenneth.]
Yes, Charlie? 

Q Can I ask you one quick question? 

MR. BACON: Sure. 

Q Have you anything on this suspect or reported suspect who is being returned from London? 

MR. BACON: I just saw the report, and I -- the president addressed that question. We have nothing we can say about that. The investigation is going on vigorously, but I have nothing I can give you on that particular report that someone has been picked up in the UK and returned to the U.S. 

Q No request for a U.S. military transport or -- 

MR. BACON: I can't go beyond what I've said. We have nothing more to say about that right now. When we have more information on the investigation -- which is being conducted by the FBI not here -- the information will be forthcoming. 

Q So you're not confirming or denying whether this suspect might be being returned on a military plane or -- 

MR. BACON: No, I'm telling you I'm not saying anything about the suspect or what's happening to the suspect.
Okay. General Scales? 

GEN. SCALES: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Major General Bob Scales. I'm the director of Military Support in DOD, and as such, I'm the central point of contact for coordinating military support to the civilian authority. 

(snip)

GEN. SCALES: And my office essentially handles the tactical side of that in that we coordinate the execution of that support. 

Two points I'd like to make, probably both of which you already know. 

We in DOD are not the lead agency. We respond to direct requests. And in this case the requests have come for DOD support primarily from FEMA, but also from the FBI. And even though the process I have just described to you was -- sounded lengthy, I must tell you that in this case, particularly when time is of the essence, approval and orders for dispatch are measured in minutes rather than hours. And I think we lived up to that reputation yesterday and today. 

(snip)

Q General, just a couple of quick questions. Number one, when did the C-5 leave and arrive, and how many vans were on it? 

GEN. SCALES: I don't know the number of vans. The FBI -- the FBI could probably tell you that. Let's see, I think they arrived, if I'm not mistaken, early in the morning at Tinker. 

Q And the secretary said this morning that DOD had offered Arabic speakers. 

GEN. SCALES: Yes. 

Q And that he expected that they already had been accepted by Justice or would be. Have they been? Are they being -- 

GEN. SCALES: We received a request late yesterday to provide eight to 10 Arabic speakers, and we passed that requirement on to Forces Command. And usually it doesn't take long to assemble those Arabic speakers, and they should be available probably tomorrow for dispatch. 

Q What about speakers of other languages? 

Q To be used where? 

GEN. SCALES: I'm sorry? 

Q What about speakers of other languages? 

GEN. SCALES: Not to my knowledge. Arabic was the only one. 

Q To be used where? 

GEN. SCALES: Well, they would normally be used as interpreters. 

Q But I mean, in Oklahoma City or -- 

GEN. SCALES: Frankly, I don't know. I don't have that information. All we were told was to assemble the Arabic speakers, and more to follow. Yes? 

Q So then they are true linguists? It's not a request for Middle East terrorist experts, anything like that? 

GEN. SCALES: No, no, no. The Army has -- as you know, the Army has foreign area specialists in our military intelligence battalions, and these are young soldiers that are trained in the language, and so these are truly interpreters and linguists. 

Q So presumably they would be used for interrogation? 

GEN. SCALES: No. No, no, no. They're interpreters. They'd just be used to translate. 

Q In Oklahoma City? 

GEN. SCALES: Again, I don't know where they'd be used. 

(snip)

Q Perhaps to flog a horse here, why Arabic speakers? Were you told why? 

GEN. SCALES: Well, the information I have from the FBI is that the -- of the different groups that have claimed responsibility, I think it's eight groups claimed responsibility for this incident and seven of them claim to be from the Middle Eastern countries, so it would just be logical to me that they would ask for Arabic-speaking translators. 


(snip)


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

The Times 
April 20, 1995, Thursday 
SECTION: Business 

Up to 250 missing in US bombing 
Martin Fletcher in Washington and Tom Rhodes in Oklahoma City 

(snip)

Trembling with anger last night [Barf.], President Clinton denounced the bombing as an act of cowardice and evil against innocent children and defenceless citizens. He vowed that the bombers would be brought to justice, and ordered scores of explosives experts, secret service and military personnel to join the FBI on a special investigation team. 

Mr Clinton also declared a state of emergency in Oklahoma and rushed disaster and medical aid workers to the state. The Pentagon sent medical-evacuation helicopters, search and rescue workers, bomb-sniffing dogs and ordnance experts, assisted by a robot, to help in the rescue effort. 

Although the FBI said last night that it had no idea who was responsible for the explosion, it is believed to be concentrating its inquiries on the Middle East. The FBI is reported to have been closely watching several Middle East groups in recent months and yesterday it asked the Pentagon to lend it ten Arabic speakers. 

The bureau also issued an alert for three men seen driving away in a hired brown Chevrolet pick-up truck with darkened windows just before the explosion. The passengers were described as Middle Eastern with dark hair and beards; one was in his early twenties and the other aged between 35 and 38. 


(snip)

As Oklahoma was reeling from the blast yesterday, government buildings in seven other cities were evacuated after bomb scares and President Clinton ordered that security be tightened at all federal buildings, saying he was determined that government employees would be protected. 

''I will not allow the people of this country to be intimidated by evil cowards,'' he declared. ''Let there be no doubt. We will find the people responsible who did this. When we do justice will be swift, certain and severe. These people are killers and must be treated like killers.'' 

Janet Reno, the Attorney-General, confirmed that the Administration would seek the death penalty when the bombers were caught and promised: ''The FBI will pursue every lead and use every resource to bring those responsible to justice.''
[There goes my lunch!]


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

The Washington Times 
April 21, 1995, Friday

Clinton says borders won't block justice 
Paul Bedard; THE WASHINGTON TIMES 

President Clinton, angry and bitter about the bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City, yesterday said U.S. lawmen will fan out around the nation and the globe to hunt down those responsible for the deadly blast. 

Flashing frustration that terrorists could strike in America's heartland, the president also made a veiled threat to order a military strike against any nation tied to the bombing. 

"Whoever did it, we will find out, and there will be justice that will be swift and certain and severe," he said at a joint Rose Garden news conference with Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. "Nobody can hide anyplace in this country, nobody can hide anyplace in this world from the terrible consequences of what has been done. . . . Make no mistake about it: This was an attack on the United States, our way of life and everything we believe in." 

While refusing to detail military contingency plans, the president said: "Whoever did it, we'll get to the bottom of it, and then we'll take the appropriate action." 

White House spokesman Michael McCurry said the president won't let any suspects in the bombing hide in rogue nations, as two suspects in the December 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, have done in Libya. 

"The president is determined it won't happen again," Mr. McCurry said last night. 

While urging Americans not to stereotype Arabs as terrorists, the president leveled his toughest threat since making good on a warning to attack Baghdad in June 1993 for plotting to kill former President George Bush. 

The Pentagon has dispatched at least eight Arabic translators to the FBI for use in the investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing. 

"We received a request [from the Justice Department] late yesterday to provide eight to 10 Arabic speakers, and we passed that requirement along to Forces Command" in Atlanta, said Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales. He said the translators will be in Oklahoma City today. 

Meanwhile, the FBI issued composite drawings of two suspects, both white men - one with a crew cut. 

Administration officials said that although the bombing could have been orchestrated by foreign nations, it was more likely the work of a separate group. 

That would make it like the February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City, which was conducted by followers of a radical Egyptian sheik whose organization spread over New York and New Jersey. It was not state-sponsored terrorism. 

The president is considering traveling to Oklahoma City on Sunday to attend a memorial service for the bombing victims. 


He took several actions related to the bombing yesterday: 

* He ordered flags lowered to half-staff until Monday. 

* He released $5 million in federal disaster aid. 

* He called in the Small Business Administration to help uninsured businesses hurt by the blast. 

* He gave the hundreds of federal workers displaced by the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building an "excused absence," allowing them to stay away from work without losing pay. 

* He said the federal government has increased security around its establishments. 

"This is a law-abiding country, and neither the leaders nor the citizens of this country will permit it to be paralyzed by this kind of behavior," Mr. Clinton said. 


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

The Guardian (London) 
April 21, 1995 (Friday)
Pg. 1 

ARMED BOMBERS ON THE RUN; 
FBI puts up $ 2m reward in search for 'extremely dangerous' white suspects
 
Martin Walker In Washington, Ian Katz In Oklahoma City, And Sally Weale 

(By Friday, Bill Clinton has started trying to steer everyone away from the Middle Eastern connection.)

A HUGE international manhunt was under way last night for two men, described as "armed and extremely dangerous", in connection with the Oklahoma City terrorist bombing. 

FBI officials said the two white men (pictured above) had rented the truck which was traced through forensic evidence as the vehicle which contained the crude bomb of "thousands of pounds" of fertiliser and fuel oil used in Wednesday's attack. 

The FBI issued descriptions and sketches of the two men and offered a $ 2 million reward for information leading to their capture. 

Another man, described as a Jordanian-American, was detained at Heathrow where he had arrived on a flight from Chicago. He was sent back under escort to Washington by British immigration authorities. The US attorney-general, Janet Reno, said last night he was considered "a possible witness" rather than a suspect. But the FBI officials in Oklahoma City denied a television report that three Arab men arrested by local police had any connection with the bombing. The focus of the inquiry appears to have shifted away from international terrorism to domestic suspects. 


(snip)

The man detained at Heathrow's Terminal 4 yesterday morning had travelled alone on a British Airways flight from Chicago. He was said to be in his early to mid-20s, with jet black hair and moustache. He was stopped by immigration officials as he tried to board a flight to Rome. The man was held for several hours before being put on a flight back to the US arriving early today. He was expected to be taken to Andrews air force base, near Washington, for questioning. 

Airport authorities in Rome working with the FBI seized three bags yesterday. Officials said the bags arrived unaccompanied on an Alitalia flight from Chicago en route to Amman, Jordan, and were checked in by the man stopped at Heathrow. The duffle bags contained no explosives, but material useful in bomb-making, authorities said. Among the items found were electrical tape, silicone, a hammer, tweezers and a photo album with pictures of missiles and weapons. 


(snip)

Declaring "there is no place to hide" for the terrorists responsible for the bombing, President Clinton yesterday warned the American people they faced "an attack on the United States, against our way of life, against everything we believe in". 

He announced a stepping up of security throughout the the US and at its embassies and offices abroad, and an aggressive deployment of police, intelligence and forensic resources to identify those responsible. 

But with death threats pouring in against Arab-American organisations, Mr Clinton cautioned Americans not to jump to conclusions or succumb to racial or religious prejudices. 

"This is not a question of anyone's country of origin. This is not a question of anyone's religion. This was murder. This was evil, this was wrong," he said. 


While the priority in Oklahoma City remained the search and rescue operation looking for survivors at the devastated federal office building, the US government marshalled a team of its top anti-terrorist experts, including Arabic speakers from the Pentagon, to run the inquiry. A total of 300 federal agents, from the FBI and Treasury and customs, have been deployed on the case. 


 Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

The Guardian (London) 
April 22, 1995 (Saturday)
Pg. 1 

FBI ARREST BOMB SUSPECTS; 
Oklahoma manhunt focuses on rightwing white extremists [Gasp!]

Martin Walker In Washington And Ian Katz In Oklahoma City 

THE two men wanted by the FBI in connection with the Oklahoma bombing were being held last night as the hunt for the bombers homed in on a rightwing US paramilitary group. 

The attorney-general, Janet Reno, announced that Timothy McVeigh, aged 27 - the man with a crewcut shown in sketches of two white suspects issued on Thursday - had been arrested for a traffic offence shortly after the bombing on Wednesday in Perry, 60 miles north of Oklahoma City. Found to be carrying a gun, he had been held since then. 

And late last night the justice department said Terry Lynn Nichols - the second man shown in police sketches - had given himself up in Herington, Kansas. Officials said Mr Nichols was co-operating with detectives. Mr McVeigh's interrogation and subsequent inquiries led the FBI to the Michigan Militia headquarters, where arrest warrants were to be served on Terry Nichols and his brother James Douglas Nichols for involvement in the bombing of a government building in Oklahoma City in which more than 65 people are now confirmed dead. There is little hope that any of the 159 listed as missing will be found alive. 

Armed FBI agents in black combat gear and body armour late yesterday searched the headquarters of the Michigan Militia, a rightwing group of gun enthusiasts which believes the federal government is conspiring to rob Americans of their liberties. The building, in Decker, Michigan, is the home of James Nichols who officials said was present and was co-operating. 

Led by Norman Olson, aged 48, a gun shop owner and pastor of the Calvary Baptist Church in Alanson, Michigan, the Militia is based around a conspiracy theory which sees the US government as the arm of a sinister world government, which will shortly see United Nations and Russian troops take over the United States. 

It was reported yesterday that the two men thought to have been responsible for the bombing were demolition experts who had deserted from a Kansas army base near the body shop where they are believed to have rented the truck used in the bombing. 

It emerged last night that April 19, the day of the bombing was a key date for members of the militia as well as the second anniversary of the ending of the Waco siege. The date was last year declared by leaders of the Michigan group as a National Militia Day. 

Kenneth Adams, the president of the Michigan Militia, denied last night that his group was involved in the Oklahoma attack. "Our group is pro-government," he said. There were suggestions that the men being questioned were members of a splinter group called the Patriots. 

It is understood that one of the two men who hired the truck used in the explosion gave April 19 as a false date of birth. 

Initial assumptions of Middle Eastern involvement had faded earlier in the day as the Jordanian-American returned to the US from Heathrow airport on Thursday was released with thanks after questioning, and the Pentagon stood down its teams of Arabic speakers who had been on standby to help. 

More than 1,600 leads had been phoned in to telephone hotlines, responding to the publication of two sketches of the suspects, who had rented a van in which the bomb was placed. It was enormous, estimated by the FBI to contain 4,000lbs of crude explosive, manufactured from ammonium nitrate fertiliser and fuel oil. 

(snip) 

The investigation was proceeding apace last night. "Searches are being made on several locations around the country," Ms Reno said. "Other arrest warrants are being served . . . There is a strong likelihood that other persons are involved in this tragedy." 

President Clinton praised the rapid progress of the investigation. Of the bombers, he said: "We will find them, we will convict them and we will seek the death penalty for them." 


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

CNN 
SHOW: NEWS 3:43 am ET 
April 22, 1995 (Saturday)

Arabs Prematurely Suspected by Media in Bomb Case (Clinton News Network to the rescue!)
RALPH BEGLEITER 

Early media reports that officials suspected a Middle Eastern connection in the Oklahoma City bombing and subsequent revelation that Americans are likely responsible raise concerns about a rush to judgement. 

LINDEN SOLES, Anchor: Well, overnight it appears that our- the object of America's wrath has shift- shifted form the image of a potential religious fanatic from another country to a home-grown bomber with a made-in-America grievance. But as CNN's world affairs correspondent Ralph Begleiter reports, that has caused serious damage to some of the people who were part of that early speculation. 

RALPH BEGLEITER, International Affairs Correspondent: Within minutes of the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal building, news reports published and broadcast worldwide began implicating as suspects, Middle Easterners, Arabs and Islamic groups. 

??: The suspect information backup on the screen for everyone that- if you haven't seen it or didn't have a chance to jot it down. 

RALPH BEGLEITER: Unedited, live television reports got the ball rolling, but authorities including some elected officials quickly reinforced the idea that non-Americans could be responsible for the crime. 

??: There was a convention in Oklahoma City at the Cowboy Hall of Fame of fundamentalists that had, as their speakers, members of Islamic groups such as Islamic Jihad or the radical group Hamas, which is involved in terrorism. 

RALPH BEGLEITER: Globally respected news media including newspapers and television were quick to seize on suggestions from officials that well-known Middle Eastern terrorist groups were suspects. The British government's announcement that a, quote, 'Possible suspect, ' unquote, had been detained in London, and later disclosures that he was a Jordanian-American on a flight to Amman [sp] fueled reporting about international suspects. Defense Secretary William Perry was peppered by reporters assuming Middle East connection, an disclosed the Pentagon had offered Arabic language interpreters to investigators. Top U.S. officials said publicly there was no evidence of an international connection. 

Pres. BILL CLINTON: There have been lots of twists and turns in this investigation, but I would say to the American people, we should not assume, as I said yesterday, that we should not assume that any people from beyond our borders are involved, and that we should not assume anything except- except what we know. 


RALPH BEGLEITER: But privately, officials said they were leaning toward Middle Eastern terrorism explanations for the Oklahoma blast. Arab groups who have used car bombs before were listed for reporters, but those groups quickly and plainly denied any involvement. 

??: This is not our style [inaudible]. The American people are not our enemy. Even to make them [inaudible], we are not considering them our enemy, regardless of the attitude and the support of the government. 

RALPH BEGLEITER: Iran's president, too, issued an unequivocal disavowal of the Oklahoma bomb, but as Americans grieved and grew angrier over the tragedy, they refused to believe that the root of the blast might be domestic. One U.S. official told CNN this week, 'Americans don't do car bombs, ' and the damage had already been done. Arab-Americans, again, became objects of hate. 

NIHAD AWAD, Council on American-Islamic Relation: Ever since the news went- that Middle-Easterners or Muslims could be suspects, that thing just took off, and all over the country, especially those mosques or centers or cities that had been shown on TV as, you know, safe haven for potential suspects. They had received threats. 

RALPH BEGLEITER: It has become commonplace for journalists to rush to publish tidbits of major investigations as they unfold. Months of conflicting reports about the O.J. Simpson murder case make the point, and the blast investigation is no exception. 

Pres. BILL CLINTON: I understand why you want to do it. It's perfectly understandable and appropriate, but it- it's not ripe yet. 

RALPH BEGLEITER: The advent of instantaneous transmission of news reports has shortened the time journalists take to report a story, and pressures officials to draw conclusions. Ralph Begleiter, CNN, Washington.



41 posted on 07/20/2002 3:59:58 PM CDT by Nita Nupress

 


38 posted on 02/27/2004 6:15:38 PM PST by Nita Nupress (Free Republic *IS* the new press..................Heh, heh, heh.. Don't you just *LOVE* it?!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Not to mention Nichols visit to the Philippines which we now know had terrorists.

What was Nichols doing in the Philippines and why didn't he take his Philippina wife with him when he went?

39 posted on 02/27/2004 6:20:31 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie
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To: captbarney
He'd bring down the "DIRT" in our Gov't and a NEW REPUBLIC can begin

Um...no. If the "DIRT" in our Government had the slightest hint that Nichols had any information damaging to them, Nichols would simply suffer a heart attack in his cell the night before he was to talk to anyone who could do anything about it.

40 posted on 02/27/2004 6:27:06 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: PhiKapMom
There are serious, well documented stories connecting muslim terrorists to OKC. Do a search of David Schippers McVeigh and see how many pop up. Schippers was the lead democrat investigating Clinton during the impeachment proceedings. Schippers says when first told of possible mideast connections, he wrote it off to another conspiracy nutcase. But read his interviews and what he has written. This is just one of many links to this.

http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/Illumine.htm
41 posted on 02/27/2004 6:27:31 PM PST by treeclimber
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To: Peach
Will do. I had my suspicions about this from the beginning but they really peaked after visiting the Bombing Memorial and then the Museum. Since then I have become totally convinced there was a cover-up.

There are some pictures of the bombing that I had never really looked at before recently. They don't make much more sense then this whole deal. Looks at this picture -- the debris is in front of the building but why weren't the traffic lights blown down from the truck bomb? If the truck was parked in front of the building -- why is the debris all in front instead of being blown out the back? The second photo is the back and side of the Murrah Building. I could be totally wrong but something about these pictures make me think something is not right.

http://photos.newsok.com/bombing/ There are a lot more photos archived at The Oklahoman on this page. The one of the Clintons at the Memorial Service is not the one the mural is made from. In that one they are both there with that cat that swallowed canary look.

42 posted on 02/27/2004 6:31:42 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: treeclimber
Something else -- there are articles about a particular motel that was used by some Middle Eastern folks with McVeigh and just so happens Atta and Zacarias Mousawi were at that same motel and it was turned over to the authorities after 9/11 and they did act on the tip about Mousawi/Atta. Mousawi was the former Norman resident who wanted to fly large aircraft at our flight school and stayed with two other Middle Eastern types here in Norman and suspected of being the 20th hijacker. I know they followed up on Mousawi -- in fact, they interviewed people all around Norman about the guy and his two roommates ended up in prison.

The FBI did not follow up on the McVeigh/Middle Eastern deal is my understanding, but I have read and heard so many rumors I am not sure.
43 posted on 02/27/2004 6:38:16 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Nichols is not in federal custody -- he is in State custody and the OK County DA is a straight shooter and not a grandstander like Macy. There had to be a reason that the OK County DA turned down a no-contest plea by Nichols in exchange for life in prison. He said no -- it was after that the witnesses started coming forward and the Judge ruled the testimony was admissable. I think Nichols will spill the beans if it means he can get life in prison and not the death penalty.

Think the trial is going to get more interesting since the Judge seems to be a straight shooter as well.
44 posted on 02/27/2004 6:43:12 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: PhiKapMom
Good questions.

http://www.aim.org/publications/weekly_column/2001/11/21.html

OKLAHOMA BOMBING LINKED TO BIN LADEN

Reed Irvine
Chairman, Accuracy in Media

November 21, 2001

"...there is a lot of evidence that an ANFO bomb alone could not have caused all the damage done to the Murrah Building and that smaller powerful bombs inside the building caused much, if not most, of it. Since the ANFO that the FBI says was in the Ryder truck failed to demolish a low concrete wall between it and the building, or knock down a nearby lamp post, it could not have destroyed the more distant reinforced concrete building."


45 posted on 02/27/2004 6:45:49 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: PhiKapMom
"Something else -- there are articles about a particular motel that was used by some Middle Eastern folks with McVeigh and just so happens Atta and Zacarias Mousawi were at that same motel "

==

It's one heck of a conincidence, isn't it?
46 posted on 02/27/2004 6:46:56 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: Nita Nupress
How about a stroll down Memory Lane just so we won't forget?

How about an introduction to reality, too?

BET you've NEVER seen this -

- excerpted from ... a published work ...

According to McVeigh, Jones began acting as though he was convinced his client was "delusional." Again and again Jones would send different members of the defense team to El Reno to hear McVeigh recount every detail of the story, only to hear McVeigh give the same version of events each time. Jones even hired an Oklahoma City psychiatrist, Dr. John R. Smith, to evaluate McVeigh and help determine whether McVeigh was delusional or competent to stand trial.

Smith, sixty-three at the time, had examined nearly one hundred accused killers as a court-appointed psychiatrist. But he'd never met anyone accused of killing 168 people. Nor had he ever been assigned to a case that hit so close to home. His own home, about a mile from the Murrah Building, had had a front window blown out by the blast. A piece of debris from the bomb had come crashing through a window in an office where Smith's daughter worked, fortunately injuring no one. He was already treating several of the bomb victims, who were traumatized by their experiences. Smith himself had driven past the Murrah Building less than half an hour before the explosion. When Jones's team approached him, they told Smith that they wanted him to judge the mind of "a man who drove off the interstate, set fire to a five-minute fuse, and then set fire to a two-minute fuse."

Smith talked with McVeigh for twenty-five hours, mostly over a five-week period in the spring and summer of 1995. Five years later, McVeigh gave Smith a written release to discuss their interviews with the authors of this book.

Smith found McVeigh very intelligent, with a 126 IQ, and very open to discussing his crime with a psychiatrist. By the second visit, Smith said, McVeigh was openly discussing the bombing, step by step, in chilling detail.

The psychiatrist saw no signs of remorse as McVeigh calmly explained how he designed, built, and delivered his bomb. He talks about this crime like it's some kind of successful science project, Smith thought angrily after one session.

And yet even in this confessed mass murderer Smith found things he liked, and reasons for sympathy. While others saw McVeigh as outgoing and happy-go-lucky, Smith found McVeigh deeply troubled by his parents' divorce and his war experiences. He pictured McVeigh in adolescence, trying to lose himself in the fantasy world of comic books late at night while his parents argued so furiously in the next room that McVeigh actually feared they might kill each other.

Others saw McVeigh as tremendously proud of his accomplishments in the military, but Smith saw a young man who was horrified by the killing of Arab soldiers. He listened closely to McVeigh's nightmarish descriptions of the killing he had done. To Smith, it was tragic that McVeigh never received counseling when he returned to the United States after the war. McVeigh told him he had looked into the possibility of getting treatment at a Veterans Administration hospital in Florida, but backed out when he was told he could not be treated under an assumed name. McVeigh was worried that receiving such counseling would be held against him when he applied for jobs.

Mcveigh told Smith he bad briefly experimented with methamphetamines after leaving the Army, but Smith saw no indications that McVeigh had ever been a heavy user of drugs.

While McVeigh proudly called himself a warrior, Smith could only picture McVeigh killing others from afar - while peering through the sights of a Bradley, or delivering a bomb and leaving the scene, but never face-to-face.

Smith had met many murderers who seemed to enjoy killing. McVeigh was different. His outlook on the bombing was cold and calculating, but Smith could see that McVeigh took no pleasure from the killings at the Murrah Building. McVeigh viewed the bombing as a mission that it was his duty to carry out, and he was convinced the bombing would change government in America.

"I expect to be convicted for the bombing, and I expect to receive the death penalty," McVeigh told the psychiatrist.

McVeigh also told Smith that, in scouting locations for his bombing, he had looked for a target he could bring down without killing a lot of people in surrounding, nongovernment buildings.

Smith concluded that McVeigh's life had been thrown into turmoil by a series of disturbing events: his parents' breakup, the killing he had done in the war, even the tragic death of Terry Nichols's stepson. But the Waco incident, Smith believed, was the flash point for MeVeigh's anger.

As a boy, Smith said, McVeigh had been so upset by his parents' breakup that he created a fantasy world for himself. "He created this superhero role for himself," Smith said. "He fantasized all these monsters, which he fought."

As an adult, McVeigh came to see the U.S. government as the ultimate monster - especially after the Waco incident.

"Waco was not the sole reason for the bombing," Smith said. "But if there had been no Waco, I don'tt believe Tim would have bombed the Murrah Building."

Smith once tried to confront McVeigh about the pain his bomb had caused others. Smith had noted how much McVeigh seemed to enjoy talking to people, and now he tried to use this quality to provoke a reaction from him. "Instead of the death penalty, Tim, they should put you in a tiny little cell, Smith said. "You wouldi't be allowed to talk to anyone, ever again."

McVeigh looked surprised. He stood straight up from his chair. "You'd put me in a little cell like that?" he said.

"Tim, that's what you did to your victims and their families," Smith said. "They'll never be able to communicate with each other again."

The two quickly moved on to other topics. "Tim, have you ever loved anyone?" Smith asked.

"My father and my grandfather," McVeigh quickly answered.

"I noticed you didn't mention your mother or your sisters," Smith remarked.

"Yes," McVeigh said. "I was just noticing that myself."

Smith could see that McVeigh was awkward with women, but he knew that McVeigh had cared deeply about a couple of women in his life. McVeigh once asked Smith if he could take some of his sperm out of the prison and give it to a woman, so she could become pregnant. Smith agreed to look into the legal requirements for such a venture.

Smith said McVeigh also told him of the brief affair he allegedly had with Marife Nichols, the wife of Terry Nichols. Though he was horrified by McVeigh's crime and his cold attitude, Smith did not see him as an evil man. Clinically, he saw him as an essentially decent person who had allowed rage to build up inside him to the point that he had lashed out in one terrible, violent act. "I've seen it many times," Smith maintains. "Nice people do really terrible things."

The psychiatrist reported back to Jones that his client was not delusional - that be knew exactly what he did, and exactly what be was doing now.

As for McVeigh, he considered himself as sane as anyone. In the months after his arrest, he continued his voracious reading of all things antigoverment, and he enjoyed watching TV shows that questioned the government's actions. One night on cable, McVeigh enjoyed a viewing of Brazil, Terry Gilliam's surreal 1985 film about a futuristic society where citizens are dehumanized. One of the characters in the film is Harry Tuttle, a terrorist bomber played by Robert DeNiro. Some people later theorized that McVeigh had chosen the alias Tim Tuttle in honor of DeNiro's character, but the first time he saw the film was inside prison walls.


47 posted on 02/27/2004 6:47:09 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: DoughtyOne
I forgot about Hubbell the guy the Clintons paid to keep quiet. A lot of strings in this one.
48 posted on 02/27/2004 6:47:14 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: dalebert
And the Nichols trial is in McAlester in Southeastern OK -- wonder if they can manage to get deposition admitted this time. The judge except for ruling the trial starts Monday had been given the defense a lot of leeway.
49 posted on 02/27/2004 6:49:11 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04 -- Losing is not an Option!)
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To: All
"White supremacists" do not exclude radical Islam.

"US extremists conflicted over war on terror," by Brad Knickerbocker, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor, June 18, 2002

"Experts tracking antigovernment radicals also note their shared interest with Muslim extremists in opposing what they see as this country's pro-Israel foreign policy. This is often voiced as opposition to, as the most militant call it, "ZOG" -- the "Zionist-Occupied Government" of the US."

Cooperation with foreign terrorists would help to precipitate "the kind of race war envisioned in 'The Turner Diaries,' the anti-Semitic, racist, and apocalyptic novel many on the extreme right see as prophetic." [end excerpt]

It took years to get serious looks at Ruby Ridge and Waco. OKC is no different except it connects directly to the Clintons' Oval Office.

Americans who would not let Ruby Ridge and Waco go were ridiculed and threatened. Jayna Davis, Mr. Key and others have suffered the same treatment.

Remember this? "When the full stories of these two incidents (1993 WTC Center bombing and 1995 Oklahoma City bombing) are finally told, those who permitted the investigations to stop short will owe big explanations to these two brave women (Middle East expert Laurie Mylroie and journalist Jayna Davis). And the nation will owe them a debt of gratitude." -- Former CIA Director James Woolsey, "The Iraq Connection", Wall Street Journal, September 5, 2002

50 posted on 02/27/2004 6:50:23 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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