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NRA Telemarketing Scam - March 1, 2004

Posted on 02/28/2004 8:58:12 AM PST by Mini-14

I received a telephone call from a NRA telemarketer this morning.  He first started by thanking me for being a loyal member of the NRA (which I am).  He then went on to tell me the following:

  1. The President of the NRA, has written a book titled Shooting Straight: Telling the Truth About Guns in America, which the telemarketer alleged has been blacklisted by booksellers and the media. 
  2. The NRA is working with the "National Library Association" to get the book into libraries.

I stopped the telemarketer at that point and told him that I had worked in a library for seven years, had a M.S. in Library Science, and worked for a leading producer of library management software.  I also informed him that I had never heard of the "National Library Association", and asked where the organization's headquarters are located.  The telemarketer said that he didn't know and that he would transfer me to his supervisor.

The supervisor then came online and admitted that there is no such organization as the "National Library Association", and stated that the reference to such an organization was designed to reduce the amount of explaining that was needed to get NRA members to take action.  I asked the supervisor exactly what action it was that I was being asked to take.  The supervisor said that I was being asked to donate $45 so that an autographed copy of the book (Amazon price is $19.57) could be donated to a public library in my public area.  The supervisor went on to explain that library "x" had already agreed to accept the book.

I responded by telling him that my experience with libraries is that they never agree to accept to donated materials, and that they only agree to consider a donation.  He then admitted that that statement was also part of the script that was given to him.

I told the supervisor that based on the last several days of events in Washington in which NRA actions were being called into question, that it is important for the NRA to tell the truth to its members, because when the NRA is caught in "little" lies, that everything they do cannot be trusted.  The supervisor said that he agreed and would bring this issue up with his supervisors.

I did not donate money to the NRA today.

 


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2nd; amendment; bang; banglist; lapierre; nra; second; wayne
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 02/28/2004 8:58:13 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: *bang_list
bang
2 posted on 02/28/2004 8:58:40 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
Are you certain it really was the NRA?
3 posted on 02/28/2004 9:01:44 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: Mini-14
They're trying to scam you and actually admitted it on the phone? I guess it's "scam lite".
4 posted on 02/28/2004 9:08:59 AM PST by Batrachian
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To: leadpenny
Either that, or someone who purloined their membership list.
5 posted on 02/28/2004 9:09:05 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
Why did you post date this by 2 days?
6 posted on 02/28/2004 9:09:41 AM PST by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
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To: Mini-14
Something smells very fishy. I too am a member of the NRA( Lifetime ) and I can not imagine they would do something so dumb.
I bet we hear the real story soon. Probably a scam using the NRA.
7 posted on 02/28/2004 9:12:53 AM PST by devane617
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To: Lokibob
I didn't check my calendear. Shouuld be the 28th.
8 posted on 02/28/2004 9:15:08 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
Did the caller/supervisor have a fairly high-pitched, Brit-sounding voice. Could be NRA out-sourced the telemarketing campaign.

OR could be you, Freeper Mini-14, have an anti-2nd Ammendment or anti-NRA agenda. I guess you are not on the Telemarketing Stop List?

I'll come back to watch this thread.
9 posted on 02/28/2004 9:21:31 AM PST by NutmegDevil
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To: NutmegDevil
OR could be you, Freeper Mini-14, have an anti-2nd Ammendment or anti-NRA agenda. I guess you are not on the Telemarketing Stop List?

Eat a bug.

10 posted on 02/28/2004 9:30:55 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
You may be technically correct, but so is the NRA.

It seems like people are referring to the American Library Association as "national library association". It also seems that the National Library Organization did exist in the past, possibly they changed their name at some point and became the ALA. Do a search -- I do get "National Library Association" back in 1888 -- the history of ALA says they have been around since 1876. And see the following:

http://web.library.uiuc.edu/ahx/ala/ccard/listsubj.asp?SU=N

AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION ARCHIVES HOLDINGS DATABASE

Click a subject heading for a list of records:

National Legislative Network Workshop
National Libraries
National Library Association

"The American Library Association, founded in 1876, is the world's oldest and largest national library association. "

===

In fact I just found another place, where "National Library Association" was listed, and when clicking on the link, it took my to ALA.

http://www.nara-licensing.org/linkschildcareprofessionalorganizationresources.htm



11 posted on 02/28/2004 9:31:28 AM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: Mini-14
I'm an NRA member and got a scam video sales thing pulled on me.

They shipped me a video that I never asked for and said I didn't need to pay for it, then they shipped me a bill for it twice.

I wrote in big red ink "I'm not some doddering senior citizen that can be intimidated into paying for a video I didn't order and I'm not paying the shipping to ship it back to you. Stop sending me bills I have no intention of paying".

That pretty much took care of it.

I'm happy with my NRA membership and mostly happy with their efforts on the political front but some of the folks they contract with to fundraise are lowlifes.
12 posted on 02/28/2004 9:32:40 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig ( I went to the gun show today and saw an Sharpton for President sticker on a truck. Seriously dude.)
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To: FairOpinion
The "American Library Association" (ALA) is not the "National Library Association". I asked where the headquarters of this organization, were located, and if the telemarketer meant ALA, he would have provided the City of Chicago as the location.

ALA does not sponsor any type of program that would get Wayne LaPierre's books into libraries. To the contrary, ALA is populated with people who hold political views consistent with the Mayor of Chicago, Richard Daley.

13 posted on 02/28/2004 9:37:57 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
"my experience with libraries is that they never agree to accept to donated materials"

===

You are wrong about this. The ALA may not accept donations, but libraries DO. Looks to me that YOU are the one who is misinformed.

Sending Books to Needy Libraries: Book Donation Programs

ALA Library Fact Sheet 12

Please be aware that the American Library Association does not accept or distribute donations of books or any other materials. Organizations that do collect books, for distribution either within or outside the United States, are listed below. Do not hesitate to contact these groups directly to find out their needs.

BOOK DONATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES
Most public libraries in the United States accept gift books with the proviso that the library is free to decide whether to keep the book in the library's collection, put it in a book sale to raise funds for the library, or discard it. Persons seeking to donate books to libraries are encouraged to call their local library and ask about donating books to it.

14 posted on 02/28/2004 9:38:31 AM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
You just proved me right: Most public libraries in the United States accept gift books with the proviso that the library is free to decide whether to keep the book in the library's collection
15 posted on 02/28/2004 9:40:27 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: FairOpinion
FairOpinion:

How about quoting me in full: "I responded by telling him that my experience with libraries is that they never agree to accept to donated materials, and that they only agree to consider a donation. "

16 posted on 02/28/2004 9:41:47 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
Re: "Eat a bug."

How'd you know I'm an entomologist? Are you NSA?

I've (since my initial post) read some of your other postings on FreeRepublic, so I'll back off the anti-2nd Ammendment, etc. semi-allegation.

And your bad-bad experience(s) with eye-correction surgery makes me feel I can see those bugs pretty good through my corrective lenses. And, you're not a fan of outsourcing/importing labor force.

I am agreeing with you that NRA used a despicable marketing ploy - I will withhold any donations. Hell, I'm por anyway.

Peace! Huh?
17 posted on 02/28/2004 9:43:01 AM PST by NutmegDevil
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To: Mini-14
Looks to me that YOU are the one who is misinformed.

At my library we would tell the donors that we would take the books, consider them for inclusion into the collection, and then if we decided not to accept the books, that we would resell the books at a quarterly book sale.

I know a lot more about this than you do.

18 posted on 02/28/2004 9:44:14 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
I have better things to do, than argue with you, but you said in your original post:

Mini-14: "my experience with libraries is that they never agree to accept to donated materials"

I just posted the policy, which says that they DO accept donated material, they just want to be free to decide, whether to keep them or not.

So your original statement was incorrect.

19 posted on 02/28/2004 9:44:20 AM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: NutmegDevil
Peace! Huh?

Agreed.

20 posted on 02/28/2004 9:45:52 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Mini-14
Since it was a phone call, you don't know whether they just meant "the national library organization", which is the ALA.

But in any case, even if they were not 100% correct in their terminology, labeling the NRA call a SCAM is totally unfair.
21 posted on 02/28/2004 9:46:04 AM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: Mini-14
That sounds like an Amazon.com 'marketing affiliate'. They get a commission on everything they sell.
22 posted on 02/28/2004 9:47:42 AM PST by hardhead ("Why'nt the chicken jest hop off the stage?")
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To: glock rocks; Pete-R-Bilt; Squantos; risk
ping
23 posted on 02/28/2004 9:47:52 AM PST by B4Ranch (Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.--Eleanor Roosevelt)
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To: Mini-14
Shooting Straight: Telling the Truth About Guns in America by Wayne Lapierre, James Jay Baker, Charlton Heston
Look inside this book
List Price: $27.95
Price: $19.57 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. See details.
You Save: $8.38 (30%)
Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours
Only 5 left in stock--order soon (more on the way).
55 used & new from $3.95
Edition: Hardcover
24 posted on 02/28/2004 9:50:47 AM PST by B4Ranch (Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.--Eleanor Roosevelt)
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To: Mini-14
I got a fundraising call from the NRA a few days ago, but I did what I always try to do. I stopped the guy before he could give me his pitch (which is always boring or confusing anyway), and said I'm in for a hundred bucks, and to bill the same card that they used the last time they asked. In this case, they didn't have those records, so I told him to send me a paper bill (no way am I going to give my credit card out over the phone), and I'd pay. Got the invoice today. Wrote the check, and have licked the stamp. Gonna drop it in the mail on the way to the grocery store.

Is the NRA perfect? No. But I know who my friends are, and we live in dangerous times. When I can, I support them. I let 'em know when I think they've started to go off the beam, but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
25 posted on 02/28/2004 9:59:36 AM PST by absalom01
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To: B4Ranch; Mini-14
Damn..........NRA had better get their ducks in a row ASAP or they WILL lose "more " of their membership and financial support.

Stay Safe Ya'll !

26 posted on 02/28/2004 10:02:23 AM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: Mini-14
Did you contact the NRA and tell them what you think of this? That would seem to be the most effective way of stopping these scams. They haven't contacted me yet although they may have tried. I used to get a lot of these solicitations from organizations to which I belonged as well as some others. I signed up on the no call list and we don't answer the phone unless we know who is calling and the nature of their business. They can take a chance and leave a message.

I used to have a message on the answering machine which said that I was sorry to miss their call and if they left a message I would call back. After a friend pointed out that I probably wasn't sorry most of the time and I also wouldn't call most of them back I changed to "Leave a message at the tone."
27 posted on 02/28/2004 10:04:04 AM PST by FreePaul
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To: big ern
I got that video (and the dunning letters, too). As a result, I had to breathe deeply when sending in my membership renewal. But the NRA should know this: one more marketing scam like that and I'm an ex-member. No matter how noble the cause, I refuse to be jerked around by anyone.
28 posted on 02/28/2004 10:17:13 AM PST by edwords
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To: Squantos
My Father is an NRA member and is 85 years old. He has trouble getting around so I go over to his place most days and get his mail for him. He is a combat veteran of WWII, and has always liked shooting and guns.

I have been noticing he has been getting mail from the NRA at least weekly and often daily. I also have noticed he is regularly sending them checks.

Since Mother died last year, there is no one to keep up with what he does with his checkbook. I have noticed that between the church and the NRA, he is giving nearly half his monthly income away.

He is not poor but not wealthy either.

The NRA clearly has him on their sucker list. He also regularly gets little trinkets from them and videos etc.

29 posted on 02/28/2004 10:27:00 AM PST by yarddog
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To: absalom01
I would have donated a small amount of money ($50) if they had simply asked, and not given me a hokey story. I didn't think to do as you did.
30 posted on 02/28/2004 10:41:45 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: FairOpinion
I just posted the policy, which says that they DO accept donated material, they just want to be free to decide, whether to keep them or not.

Cripes, you could get a job with the New York Times with your ability to omit full quotations to make someone look bad.

Either you were lazy and didn't carefully read his post,or you're deliberately and maliciously cutting off his quote.

31 posted on 02/28/2004 10:44:07 AM PST by John H K
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To: Squantos; Mini-14; FreePaul
I feel quite comfortable with saying that everything in the telemarketers script was officially approved by the NRA BEFORE the first call was made.

Membership and financial support for an association that is deeply compromised isn't what I give them.

32 posted on 02/28/2004 11:00:10 AM PST by B4Ranch (Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.--Eleanor Roosevelt)
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To: Mini-14
I too am the NRA, and their leadership has slipped back to the dark days when they co-operated with the drunken swimmer and fineswine from kalifornia.

I am becomming rapidly disgusted with Wayne Peppy LaPhew as my leader in this organization.
33 posted on 02/28/2004 11:01:30 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: edwords; FreePaul; John H K; Mini-14
IT WAS NOT A SCAM!!!!!

Scam is, when you try to defraud people -- they identified themselves as being from the NRA and were soliciting donations FOR the NRA, they did NOT promise to give you anything in return. Scam is when they ask you to pay for something and they don't deliver.

At WORST it was a SLIGHT MISTAKE, and it wasn't much, if any of that either, and I question Mini14-s agenda. Just READ his statements.

Let's take the first statement Mini14 ALLEGES the NRA caller made:

"The President of the NRA, has written a book titled Shooting Straight: Telling the Truth About Guns in America, which the telemarketer alleged has been blacklisted by booksellers and the media."

There is absolutely NO evidence, that the above statement is not 100% correct, yet Mini14, feels the need to add "telemarketer alleged". Mini14 also offers NO evidence, nor any further discussion as to why he disputes this statement.

Mini14 further ALLEGES, that the NRA caller said:

"The NRA is working with the "National Library Association" to get the book into libraries."

Since it was a call, not mail, the NRA may have been referring to "the national library association" with SMALL letters, not caps, which would be referring to the American Library Association, see my post 11.

Then Mini14 makes the statement:

"I responded by telling him that my experience with libraries is that they never agree to accept to donated materials, and that they only agree to consider a donation."

I posted the official policy, see my post 14, which DIRECTLY contradicted Mini14's statement -- then he proceeded to claim that he didn't say what he said.

"never agree to accept to donated materials" is NOT the same as "Most public libraries in the United States accept gift books with the proviso that the library is free to decide whether to keep the book in the library's collection, put it in a book sale to raise funds for the library, or discard it." (from source in my post 14, which was the American Library Association). Mini14 said they NEVER accept book donations, the policy says they DO, IN FACT ACCEPT BOOK DONATIONS, they just want to be free to keep them or not.

What we have is Mini14 either deliberately being incorrect, or vastly overreacting, and it seems that others are more than happy to jump on the bandwagon to attack the NRA.

34 posted on 02/28/2004 11:05:18 AM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: yarddog
Yeah I had to run off some local "Children of the Lord" lookin for handouts myself when they targeted my old Granny as a easy mark.

Doom on all who prey in such a manner on the weak and elderly who just want to try and help anyway they can.......

The NRA/ILA gimme I want money lets go crowd is getting too close to telemarketing spaming assholes status IMO. BTW does anyone know where one can find an accounting of the NRA's cash expeditures ?

Hope yer Well ! .......Stay Safe !

35 posted on 02/28/2004 11:12:49 AM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: FairOpinion
Scam is, when you try to defraud people -- they identified themselves as being from the NRA and were soliciting donations FOR the NRA, they did NOT promise to give you anything in return. Scam is when they ask you to pay for something and they don't deliver.

Yes it was a scam.  The implied expectation of the telemarketer was that the book would end up on the library shelf.  Donated books RARELY end up in the circulation collection of the public library.  Most of them end up in book sales.

At WORST it was a SLIGHT MISTAKE, and it wasn't much, if any of that either, and I question Mini14-s agenda. Just READ his statements.

There is absolutely NO evidence, that the above statement is not 100% correct, yet Mini14, feels the need to add "telemarketer alleged". Mini14 also offers NO evidence, nor any further discussion as to why he disputes this statement.

Booksellers do no "blacklist" books.  Booksellers sell books that they think they can resell.  Amazon resells this book.  The media cannot "blacklist" books because the media does not sell books.

Since it was a call, not mail, the NRA may have been referring to "the national library association" with SMALL letters, not caps, which would be referring to the American Library Association, see my post 11.

I asked the telemarketer to identify the location of the "National Library Association's" headquarters.  The supervisor admitted that no such organization existed.  If the NRA had said "the American Library Association  which is located in Chicago", the NRA would have run into a lawsuit from ALA.  

Should I contact ALA and let them know about this?

"I responded by telling him that my experience with libraries is that they never agree to accept to donated materials, and that they only agree to consider a donation."  I posted the official policy, see my post 14, which DIRECTLY contradicted Mini14's statement -- then he proceeded to claim that he didn't say what he said.

You chopped off half of my quote.

"never agree to accept to donated materials" is NOT the same as "Most public libraries in the United States accept gift books with the proviso that the library is free to decide whether to keep the book in the library's collection, put it in a book sale to raise funds for the library, or discard it." (from source in my post 14, which was the American Library Association). Mini14 said they NEVER accept book donations, the policy says they DO, IN FACT ACCEPT BOOK DONATIONS, they just want to be free to keep them or not.

  1. You are quoting from ALA, not your local public library's official policy statement. 
  2. When patrons offered to donate books to my library I made them sign a consent form that acknowledged the books would not necessarily be added to the collection.  You apply a different meaning to the word "accept" than the meaning that donors use.  If a donor requests a library to "accept" a book, the donor means "add the library to the collection".  You mean "take physical delivery".  Donors generally assume that if a library takes physical delivery of the book, that the book will be circulated to the public. 

36 posted on 02/28/2004 11:22:39 AM PST by Mini-14
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To: Squantos
I had a conservative prof while I was in grad school. He had a PHD from Stanford.

I got to knowing him fairly well and once gave him a lift after he had bike trouble. (We put the bike in the back of my pickup).

During the ride he mentioned that he used to work for one of the 2nd amendment organizations. He said one of their favorite tricks to raise money was a phony survey. They would have the person fill out a survey which would be sent to their local congressman.

Now they were honest in that they really would send the survey results, but the whole purpose of the mailing was raising cash. They would include a request for money to defray the cost of sending out the questionairre.

I have noticed the same sort of operation seems to be going on with the NRA as I have seen a few of those polls in Daddy's mail.

37 posted on 02/28/2004 11:34:31 AM PST by yarddog
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I got the same call about 5 minutes ago. I wasn't offended and would have bought the book/given the money except I'm tight on funds right now.
38 posted on 02/28/2004 11:50:18 AM PST by Bizhvywt
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To: NutmegDevil
I guess you are not on the Telemarketing Stop List?

There's an exemption for organizations you have relationship with, thus the NRA or it's contractors acting in it's behalf, can call their membership. The only telemarketing calls I've gotten since I went on the list have been from such organizations/companies.

39 posted on 02/28/2004 12:21:14 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: big ern
I'm an NRA member and got a scam video sales thing pulled on me.

They pulled that on me and I filed a complaint with the post office. About a week letter I got a letter of apology from the NRA that said I could keep the video, no charge.

40 posted on 02/28/2004 12:31:53 PM PST by aomagrat
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To: Squantos
1. Gun Owners of America: $4,130,000*
2. National Rifle Association: $1,150,000**
3. Citizens Committee to Keep and Bear Arms: $1,020,759
4. National Shooting Sports Foundation: $200,000
5. NRA - Insititute for Legislative Action: $80,000**
6. Safari Club International: $40,000
7. Fifty Caliber Shooters Poicy Institute: $20,000

*GOA spends the most on lobbying; but spreads the wealth over their 5 in-house lobbyists. NRA and NRA-ILA combined hired 35 lobbyists and 6 different firms, spending $490,000 on their in-house lobbyists. CCRKBA spent all their money on a single full-time in-house lobbyist.
41 posted on 02/28/2004 12:32:14 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: FairOpinion
There is absolutely NO evidence, that the above statement is not 100% correct, yet Mini14, feels the need to add "telemarketer alleged". Mini14 also offers NO evidence, nor any further discussion as to why he disputes this statement.

The fact that you can buy it on Amazon would seem to be prima facia evidence that it has not been "blacklisted by booksellers" You can also get it on Barnes and Nobel, thebookserve.com, in addition to Amazon and A bunch of other places

42 posted on 02/28/2004 12:36:13 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: edwords
Huh, I got that video too. Never watched it. I don't know if they've been hitting me up for money for it. I'm a life member and never open their mail anymore because it's always a fund raising letter. I donate when I feel like it by calling them up directly.
43 posted on 02/28/2004 12:40:47 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Mini-14
I've gotten a call like that recently from them, and one asking me to email them every time I see a negative story about firearms in the press. I told them to put me on a do-not-call list and haven't been bothered since. Pissing off members is a bad long-term strategy.
44 posted on 02/28/2004 12:45:33 PM PST by Salo (You have the right to free speech - as long as you are not dumb enough to actually try it.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Thanks for the info Shooter ......... Stay Safe !!
45 posted on 02/28/2004 12:56:08 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: Mini-14
You're wasting your time with FairOpinion, FRiend.
46 posted on 02/28/2004 1:07:52 PM PST by Doohickey ("This is a hard and dirty war, but when it's over, nothing will ever be too difficult again.)
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To: Squantos
Those are interesting numbers the GOA and the Citizen's Committee have.
Personally, I don't care what they do with their cash. As long as they get the job done with results. I'm really happy for Missouri and I can't wait for New Hampshire to change to a no license required Green state. Next up, Kansas and Nebraska.
47 posted on 02/28/2004 1:21:47 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: El Gato
Of course there is no "official black list", but I found that frequently book stores don't like to carry conservative books, and if they carry them, they put them somewhere way in the back on some shelf, to make it hard to find.

I remember something about O'Reilly's book at the very beginning that someone went to several stores and nobody had it.
48 posted on 02/28/2004 1:42:47 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: FairOpinion
Trust, but VERIFY. That's what Mini did and you are jumping on him for it!

I'm the guy who doesn't trust the NRA, jump on me.
49 posted on 02/28/2004 1:48:37 PM PST by B4Ranch (Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.--Eleanor Roosevelt)
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To: Shooter 2.5
I think when an industry is charged to fix roads then they survive on the potholes. Trust is not an option with regards to liberty. It must have checks and balances. If my questions is one of those checks then so be it......

Hope yer Well Friend......Stay Safe !

50 posted on 02/28/2004 1:55:33 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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