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God and Allah Are Not the Same, Judge Told
CNSNEWS.com ^ | 3/02/04 | Patrick Goodenough

Posted on 03/02/2004 2:53:16 AM PST by kattracks

Pacific Rim Bureau (CNSNews.com) - God and Allah are not the same, an Australian pastor has told a tribunal where he faces complaints of vilifying Islam.

Pastor Daniel Scot, a scholar in Islam who fled his native Pakistan 17 years ago amid threats of retribution for "blasphemy," said that his studying of the Bible and the Quran led him to the conclusion that the God of the Bible and Allah of the Quran were different in practice, behavior and other attributes.

Scot and another pastor, Danny Nalliah, have been appearing before an administrative tribunal in the state of Victoria, after Muslims brought a complaint against them under controversial new hate laws.

Nalliah's organization, Catch the Fire Ministries, organized a seminar on Islam for Christians in March 2002, and Scot was the guest speaker. Three Muslim converts who attended the meeting at the request of the Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) said the seminar had incited fear of, and hatred for, Muslims.

Catch the Fire denied the charge, saying the seminar had merely informed Christians about Islam and its teachings, as set out in the Quran, Hadiths (sayings of Mohammed) and other religious texts.

Mediation attempts failed, and the case eventually landed before the tribunal, which operates like a court, with a presiding judge and lawyers representing the complainants and respondents.

If the judge upholds the complaint, he may order Scot and Nalliah to apologize, pay compensation or take other steps. The specific complaint faced by the two does not carry criminal penalties.

Re-examined by his legal representative, David Perkins, Scot said he had read the Bible more than 50 times and the Quran even more than that.

He said the Bible made it clear that Jesus Christ came to earth because of God's love, to save all humanity. God did not want anyone to perish, whereas Allah said he had created many jinn (spirits), and mankind for hell.

Comparing the two faiths in other instances, Scot said the Bible taught that there is no marriage in heaven, whereas in Islam's holy book Muslims could expect many wives, as well as young men, in paradise.

Mohammed said in a Hadith that a man would enjoy the sexual prowess of 100 men, he added.

("The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! Can he do that? He said: 'He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.' " - Mishkat Al-Masabih)

Scot said the Quran also refers, in sura 5:60, to Allah turning "people of the Book" (Jews and Christians) into monkeys and pigs.

By contrast, the Bible teaches that God made mankind in his own image, and only because of sin is that image marred.

The question of Allah and God was initially brought up in an earlier hearing, by a legal representative for the ICV, Brind Woinarski.

Woinarski asked Scot for a yes or no answer to the question of whether he believed Allah in Islam is the same as the God of the Bible.

Scot instead asked for permission to answer in more detail, then asked for a copy of the Quran and read two portions (sura 5:72 and sura 19:88-91) which say in essence that Allah has no son.

Then he read from the Bible (1 John 2:23), which says: "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Scot told the tribunal that it was considered the greatest sin in Islam to say that Allah has a son.

By reading those verses from the Quran and the Bible, it was evident Allah and God were not the same, he said.

At a different point in the questioning, Scot said that Jesus forgave his enemies, whereas Mohammed did not.

He said one needed to look at how Mohammed - the perfect example for Muslims - acted, and how Jesus lived and taught his followers to live.

The case continues.

See earlier story:
Vilifying Islam Case Drags on in Australia (Feb. 26, 2004)


Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.



TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: hatespeech; islam
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1 posted on 03/02/2004 2:53:16 AM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
God and Allah could not possibly be the same, IMHO.
2 posted on 03/02/2004 3:15:03 AM PST by tkathy (The Vietnam War is OVER!!!)
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To: PatrickHenry
Supernaturalist food fight! It might be fun to watch.
3 posted on 03/02/2004 3:27:19 AM PST by ASA Vet ("Anyone who signed up after 11/28/97 is a newbie")
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To: kattracks
Of course they're not the same. But someone needs to get this thread to GW to remind him.
4 posted on 03/02/2004 3:35:46 AM PST by time4good
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To: time4good
Agreed!
5 posted on 03/02/2004 3:43:26 AM PST by Ronin (When the fox gnaws -- Smile!!!)
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To: tkathy
"God and Allah could not possibly be the same..."

Of course not, as Allah is a lie from the gates of hell, and God is our mercifull creator who so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son.
Speaking the Truth that some don't agree with is NOT intolerance, on the contrary, in this case it is benevolence, because their eternal destination is at stake.

6 posted on 03/02/2004 3:44:22 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is a war room".)
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To: kattracks
I don't want to be a monkey or a pig.
7 posted on 03/02/2004 3:53:00 AM PST by stevem
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To: ml/nj
bump
8 posted on 03/02/2004 3:57:00 AM PST by upier (Stop Child abuse - Teach your children english!)
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To: kattracks
Woinarski asked Scot for a yes or no answer to the question of whether he believed Allah in Islam is the same as the God of the Bible.
Scot instead asked for permission to answer in more detail, then asked for a copy of the Quran and read two portions (sura 5:72 and sura 19:88-91) which say in essence that Allah has no son.
Then he read from the Bible (1 John 2:23), which says: "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Absolutely correct ; "no man cometh to the Father but by the me" is another verse that is clear, much less the fact that the whole bible speaks of Lord Jesus Christ and the salvation of God the Father by Him.
The hate crime legislation was crafted by Christian and Jew haters to find a way AROUND the 1st Amendment of the constitution; they now use this aberrant legislation in western nations to persecute Christians and Jews and to destroy the right of the free exercise of religion. Political correctness also destroys the right of free speech and thought.
It seems the world is becoming a socialist/communist/neo nazi pre war Germany; one day a lying but brilliant man will bring the wrath of God down on all those who persecute and murder the prophets and saints of Jesus Christ our LORD and our Saviour.
The bible tells me so.
9 posted on 03/02/2004 4:01:22 AM PST by wgeorge2001 (Pr. 8:36 36. But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death)
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To: kattracks
Allah is a moon rock god plucked by Muhammad from the heathen Arab pantheon of the time. Many "gods" in that pantheon and 4 or so moon gods. Allah was well known so Muhammad made him top dog.
10 posted on 03/02/2004 4:09:29 AM PST by dennisw (“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”)
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To: wgeorge2001
When you read the differences as explained here, it sure sounds like "Allah" and "Satan" are one in the same.
11 posted on 03/02/2004 4:11:47 AM PST by BB2
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To: kattracks
I teach in my World History class that there is no way that the Christian God and Allah can be the same. I give the students about 10 of Allah's attributes and they always figure it out for themselves.
12 posted on 03/02/2004 4:13:51 AM PST by mrfixit514
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To: kattracks
Prayer on the way for these two men - speaking the truth is not always easy.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

13 posted on 03/02/2004 4:18:57 AM PST by mombonn
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To: kattracks
Reads like a slam dunk to me that they are 2 entirely different Gods. Thanks for the post.
14 posted on 03/02/2004 4:34:01 AM PST by moonman
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To: stevem
Not to cast any stones --but Stevem don't you want to be
on a PETA poster?Adored by millions?
15 posted on 03/02/2004 4:41:05 AM PST by StonyBurk
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To: kattracks
Someone forward this to Pres. Bush.
16 posted on 03/02/2004 4:42:29 AM PST by OXENinFLA ("A free people ought to be armed" ------ George Washington)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Elisha_Ben_Abuya
Is anyone here actually happy about a secular court judging a theologic dispute?

Not if their side wins.

18 posted on 03/02/2004 4:54:46 AM PST by ASA Vet ("Anyone who signed up after 11/28/97 is a newbie")
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To: kattracks
Bump
19 posted on 03/02/2004 4:57:09 AM PST by sport
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To: kattracks
It's not just the question itself, it's the fact that the question can't even be asked. It is against the law to do a scholarly study of the difference between what two religious texts say about god. Where's the ACLU?
20 posted on 03/02/2004 4:58:18 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Elisha_Ben_Abuya
My thoughts exactly. Christians holding a Christian conference to point out obvious spiritual truth and are drug into a civil court, tribunal or whatever as a result.
21 posted on 03/02/2004 5:03:24 AM PST by bereanway
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To: samtheman
Hate crime. Reason, sanity, justice need not apply.
22 posted on 03/02/2004 5:06:26 AM PST by shezza
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To: kattracks
I like the argument that goes, "allah and God are the same because arab speaking Christians use the word allah for God".

So by that logic, if English speaking muslims believed God and allah were the same, they would use the English word God. But they don't.

23 posted on 03/02/2004 5:08:04 AM PST by rageaholic
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To: kattracks
Moslems can vilify Christianity and Judaism and it's protected speech, but if a Christian or a Jew say anything even remotely critical of "the religion of peace" it is considered a hate crime. We are headed for a huge and nasty confrontation some day soon, I'm afraid.
24 posted on 03/02/2004 5:28:47 AM PST by ought-six
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To: kattracks
"said the seminar had incited fear of, and hatred for, Muslims...

...never mind the suicide, terrorist mass murderers that are currently roaming the palnet!
25 posted on 03/02/2004 5:29:12 AM PST by observer5
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To: tkathy
What about what Mooslimes say about other religions?????

These Moose-slimes need to be send back to some Afgan caves...
26 posted on 03/02/2004 5:30:49 AM PST by observer5
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To: BB2
When you read the differences as explained here, it sure sounds like "Allah" and "Satan" are one in the same.

Yup.

27 posted on 03/02/2004 5:32:17 AM PST by FourPeas
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To: FourPeas
Allah's not well when the choice of God is left to the judiciary.
28 posted on 03/02/2004 5:38:00 AM PST by meenie
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To: kattracks; upier
the Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) said the seminar had incited fear of, and hatred for, Muslims.

Mohammed Atta did this for me.

ML/NJ

29 posted on 03/02/2004 5:52:56 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: wgeorge2001; kattracks; Elisha_Ben_Abuya; bereanway; ought-six; ml/nj; All
The Christian position says that the Bible says one thing, the Muslim says it means another.

The government weighs in, and finds that the Christian position is "hate", because it does not agree with Muslim dogma.

In other words, the Australian government has decided that in religious disputes between Christians and Muslims, the Muslim interpretation shall prevail, and shall have the force of law.

It would therefore seem that we could logically conclude that Islam is the state religion of Australia.
30 posted on 03/02/2004 6:04:52 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: kattracks
It's beyond belief that anyone would not understand just exactly who it is that Muslims worship. Allah and the Most High are not one and the same.

Islam barely gives a passing glance at the Torah, other than to twist what it says in an attempt to wrench from Isaac his inheritance and give it to Ishmael, and as far as the New Testament goes, they grant Christ the status of prophet.

Another glaring difference between Islam and Christianity and Judism is the status of truth as being of great importance. Truth is not held in regard in Islam. Lying and deceiving to promote Islam, is a very acceptable practice on the other hand.
31 posted on 03/02/2004 6:13:42 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: ASA Vet
Thanks for the ping, but life is short and threads are many, so we have to pick and choose. I'm out of this one.
32 posted on 03/02/2004 6:20:21 AM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
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To: kattracks
Indeed, God and Allah are not the same. We can thank God, too, that it's this good scholar on trial, and not some whacko.

What's absolutely beyond the pale is that the Australians have voted themselves this Tool of State, which is designed to be wielded by whomever against whomever for whatever purpose. It's as if they've provided a Law construction set. Mix up a little presumed hatred from your known enemy to build your own House-of-Cards ordinance, then take hearty offense that your neighbor is breaking your Law and sue 'em, with the full weight of court enforcement behind you.

HF
33 posted on 03/02/2004 6:43:39 AM PST by holden
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To: All
Allah is either a delusion that sprung from a psychotic mind, or a sham perpetrated by a murderous lunatic (read the origins of Islam).
In any case, I think it would be difficult to recognize the G-D from the Old and New Testiments as being the same. Old testimemt is all fire, brimstome and smiting people. New Testiment is all peace, love and brotherhood.
34 posted on 03/02/2004 7:09:48 AM PST by BadAndy (It's the activists who change society. Conservatives must become activists.)
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To: kattracks
I am surprised that the Australians are so eager to prosecute a Christian minister for promoting Christianity over Islam, especially considering how many Australians were killed by that Islamic terrorist bombing in Bali last year.

And since the Moslems in Australia initiated this prosecution, does anyone know what happens in Moslems countries to Islamic mullahs who defame Christianity or Judaism?? I'm just asking.

35 posted on 03/02/2004 7:14:23 AM PST by DonQ
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To: tkathy
God is by definition beyond definition.
36 posted on 03/02/2004 7:17:32 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: MissAmericanPie

Needless to say, you are unable to even prove that there is a God, much less whether the one worshipped by a billion Muslims is different from the one worshipped by a billion Christians.

37 posted on 03/02/2004 7:33:52 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Please, in the name of scholarly research, read the attached...

Does God Exist?

Who created God?

38 posted on 03/02/2004 7:49:06 AM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: kattracks
I've said it before, I'll say it again, Islam is the world religion of Satan... there is no doubt in my mind. It is not the religion of the God of the New Testament.
39 posted on 03/02/2004 7:51:56 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Cultural Jihad
Don't bother debating that point with people who would define what others believe, while simultaneously rejecting the idea that the same could be done to them.
40 posted on 03/02/2004 7:53:48 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Unless the world is made safe for Democracy, Democracy won't be safe in the world.)
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To: kattracks
It's always Christians being hauled up on "hate crime" charges, never Muslims,

The agenda should be clear for all to see - even judges!

41 posted on 03/02/2004 7:56:04 AM PST by Gritty ("The world will continue to be the House Of War until it comes under Islamic rule (Koran)-M.Sharon)
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To: ought-six
We are headed for a huge and nasty confrontation some day soon, I'm afraid.

Well, that would be keeping with prophesy. Personally, though I don't particularly look forward to living during it, I hope it comes sooner rather than later. A hope that is renewed everytime I watch or read the news.

42 posted on 03/02/2004 8:02:33 AM PST by templar
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To: Don Joe
The judges know, if they rule against Islam, they stand a good chance of dying.

If they rule against Christians, their continued health is all but assured.
43 posted on 03/02/2004 8:05:34 AM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
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To: MissAmericanPie
bump
44 posted on 03/02/2004 8:10:14 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
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To: kattracks
("The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! Can he do that? He said: 'He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.' " - Mishkat Al-Masabih)

Someone tell me again why this is accepted as a "religion".

45 posted on 03/02/2004 8:47:58 AM PST by montag813
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To: kattracks
Pastor Daniel Scot, a scholar in Islam who fled his native Pakistan 17 years ago amid threats of retribution for "blasphemy,"

Scot and another pastor, Danny Nalliah, have been appearing before an administrative tribunal in the state of Victoria, after Muslims brought a complaint against them under controversial new hate laws.

What a terrible irony that Scot fled Pakistan's religious tribunals only to fall victim to Australia's.

46 posted on 03/02/2004 10:02:35 AM PST by SedVictaCatoni (Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why.)
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To: kattracks
How many people were killed in the name of Allah today, and how many were killed in the name of Yahweh? Case closed!
47 posted on 03/02/2004 10:35:40 AM PST by man of Yosemite ("When a man decides to do something everyday, that's about when he stops doing it.")
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To: kattracks
"If the judge upholds the complaint, he may order Scot and Nalliah to apologize, pay compensation or take other steps."

Thank God I live in America. To think that some stuck up, fascist government could punish me for merely saying something someone else doesn't like.

48 posted on 03/02/2004 11:05:41 AM PST by chronotrigger (lostyourmojo?)
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To: samtheman
God of the bible is not a pimp procuring virgins or hooris for men. This is blasphemy. God is holy, just, and good.
49 posted on 03/02/2004 11:48:27 AM PST by tessalu
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To: kattracks
Comparing the two faiths in other instances, Scot said the Bible taught that there is no marriage in heaven, whereas in Islam's holy book Muslims could expect many wives, as well as young men, in paradise.

Is this about Muslims or Mormons?

50 posted on 03/02/2004 11:49:50 AM PST by george wythe
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