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Gunmaker Liability Bill Goes Down in Defeat
Fox News ^ | 3/2/2004 | Fox News

Posted on 03/02/2004 2:16:54 PM PST by GrandEagle

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To: Shooter 2.5
So are you saying that my dad's 22 rifle, or at least its ammunition would qualify for this ban, or slugs for my 12 guage? I just got these guns when he died and I've been trying to educate myself on them. I plan on taking a class.
51 posted on 03/02/2004 9:02:38 PM PST by mdmathis6
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To: GrandEagle
Who will make the military's firearms, the Chinese?

Oh, I forgot. These people (socialist dems, RINOs) despise the armed services, too.

52 posted on 03/02/2004 9:09:36 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (As the oldest generation dies, the memory of liberty fades into obscurity, replaced by an impostor)
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To: RedMonqey
that the 2nd didn't give the people the right to carry around military grade assault rifles on the street.

What the heck does he think "bear" means in this context? Maybe "to keep locked up in a safe"?

53 posted on 03/02/2004 9:16:17 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: mdmathis6
No, your .22LR (long rifle) uses a rimfire type cartridge and is relatively low powered. It would probably not penetrate body-armor. Neither would ammunition for a .12 ga. shotgun of which there are many types. Shotgun shells are centerfire cartridges but they usually contain multiple numbers of shot. The number depends on the size of the shot. Each projectile of shot travels independently once the shot load leaves the barrel therefore its velocity is reduced compared to a single projectile cartridge and its kinetic energy, expressed as ft. lb's, is less also. Short answer; shotgun ammo, excepting slugs (single projectile), is unlikely to penetrate body-armor.

The same is true with most low velocity 'pistol ammo' even though they are single projectile rounds and are mostly centerfire cartridges. The type of gun itself (pistol, rifle, shotgun etc,) has less (almost nothing actually) to do with the power of the bullet than the amount of powder in relation to the weight of the projectile/projectiles does. Power is defined by weight, velocity and the way a particular projectile acts/reacts to the medium it hits. Some expand, some fragment and some retain their shape depending of course on just what it is that they hit and how much energy they have retained (distance traveled, density of atmosphere, intermediate objects traversed etc.)

54 posted on 03/02/2004 9:32:25 PM PST by TigersEye (Regime change in the courts. Impeach activist judges!)
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To: mdmathis6
So are you saying that my dad's 22 rifle, or at least its ammunition would qualify for this ban

Not *this* ban. .22's are rimfire, not centerfire. After they get rid of the centerfires, there will be plenty of time to ban your Dad's .22.

Interestingly, from 1968 to 1986 rimfire ammunition was "controlled" in the sense that you had to show ID and sign for every purchase of it. I used to buy .22 short for my wife's grandfather's .22 Browning, a beautiful gun that has now passed to my father in law. I would use my green active duty ID card, just to savor the irony of an officer in the US Military having to in essence beg the government to be allowed to buy .22 short.

That was because the ammo was considered "handgun ammunition", even if you don't even own a handgun. (I didn't even own a rifle at the time, only a 20 gauge shotgun) Just as the Kennedy standard would have banned much rifle ammuntion, simply because there are some handguns chambered for it, and because virtually all of it will penetrate a vest designed to stop pistol caliber ammuntion.

55 posted on 03/02/2004 9:47:00 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: mdmathis6
Here's something a little less technical and dry to talk about and maybe more immediately important to you. I wrongly assumed that your rifle uses .22LR ammunition because you referred to it as a '.22' Odds are that it is but it could also be chambered for .22WMR. That means Winchester Magnum Rimfire. It could also be a very old gun that is only made to shoot .22 short and/or .22 long cartridges. Those are both in the same 'genus' of cartridges as the .22LR but slightly different lengths respectively. Short, Long and Long Rifle. If the gun is designed to shoot .22LR it will take any of them.

If it is designed to shoot .22WMR that is the only cartridge it will take. The .22S, .22L and .22LR are small enough to fall too far into the barrel of a gun made to shoot .22WMR and would create an explosive barrel obstruction if a .22WMR were to be chambered behind one and fired. (always check the barrel for obstructions before loading and after checking the chamber to ensure that it is unloaded.) The .22WMR is too big to fit in a gun made for .22S, .22L and/or .22LR.

Here's how you tell; the barrel should be marked with the type of ammunition it accepts.

The shotgun may not be as straigtforward as plunking a '.12 ga.' shell in it either. .12 ga. shells come in 2-3/4", 3" and the new 3-1/2" lengths. It is unlikely that your shotgun takes 3-1/2" shells. They are a recent invention made to push steel shot out harder and farther since the enviro-wackos convinced all of our wildlife managers that lead shot is killing all the ducks. (We don't want shotgun ammo to kill ducks, right?)

If your shotgun is somewhat old (or simply wasn't made for it) it may not take 3" shells either. This information will be stamped on the barrel also. AFAIK any shotgun will take a shorter shell than the largest it is designed for. Mine are all stamped with both 2-3/4" and 3". You can't put a longer shell in a gun not made for it. It may be dangerous to do so as the action might close on it scrunching it too tightly into the chamber yet still allowing you to fire it. Check before you buy. I hope this was helpful.

56 posted on 03/02/2004 10:09:28 PM PST by TigersEye (Regime change in the courts. Impeach activist judges!)
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To: mdmathis6
OK, so that post wasn't less technical. 8^O

You can sue me, there's still no law against it. Heh.

57 posted on 03/02/2004 10:12:52 PM PST by TigersEye (Regime change in the courts. Impeach activist judges!)
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To: SauronOfMordor
The trial lawyers would have figured a way around the anti-lawsuit part, but the AW ban would stand.

It wouldn't have been hard. Most of these suits are using the "defective design" argument (Beretta didn't encase the 92 in a block of cement -- a child could pull the trigger!), and that would not have been prohibited under the bill.

58 posted on 03/03/2004 4:56:20 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: El Gato
particularly suitable for sporting purposes
I'm still hunting this clause in our Constitution....
59 posted on 03/03/2004 6:20:04 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: mdmathis6
The .22 may not be part of the ban. As I said, the anti's would just say that it is under another law that they dreamed up. The shotgun could possibly go through a vest with some of the more exotic loads. The bottom line is none of us are safe with the anti-gun dem party in control. They have proven themselves to hate all guns unless they own them.

If you don't know that much about firearms, try to find a book called, "Complete Guide to Guns and Shooting" by John Malloy. It's a simple basic text with a great deal of information. If you're interested in a class, enroll in a Hunter safety course by the NRA. They're relatively inexpensive. It's also important to find out exactly what you do own. Check for the name, dates, description of the firearm itself called the Action.

You can Freepmail me and I'll try to help and if I can't, we have a crew of about a dozen people here who have been in the firearms Industry. We check the *Bang_List every day by bookmarking it. It's here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/involved?group=152
60 posted on 03/03/2004 6:44:20 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TigersEye
No offense but you can drop that decimal point off the 12 gauge. It doesn't fit a howitzer. LOL.

A 12 gauge is measured by how many of those size lead balls, which would fit into that shotgun barrel, equals a pound. Again, 12 lead balls that fit into a 12 gauge shotgun barrel equal a pound.
61 posted on 03/03/2004 6:53:24 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
The .22 is part of the ban.

A number of guns, including the Ruger 10/22, have had their mags limited to 10 rounds.
62 posted on 03/03/2004 6:55:59 AM PST by RockChucker
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To: aomagrat
Ten Republicans voted against us while only six dem voted for us. Do the math.

Don't vote for the dems. Don't let the dems back into power.
63 posted on 03/03/2004 6:58:42 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: El Gato
It already is a federal issue, and has been since 1792. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Sorry, I was careless with my wording at the end of a long work day. I am uncomfortable about turning common law liability into a federal issue. If a state imposes common law liability on gun manufacturers so as to make it prohibitavely expensive to do business in that state, then it may be a de facto violation of the Second Amendment. But right now, I think it is early for the federal government to go around preempting the common law of 50 states.

64 posted on 03/03/2004 8:14:32 AM PST by Texas Federalist
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To: Shooter 2.5
Thanks. I know. Except for .410 ga. which is not guage but forty one hundreths of an inch which is caliber. And then of course there is 'bore' such as two bore and four bore but I don't know anything about how 'bore' is sized. I should, I think John Ross completely described it in UC but I read that three years ago and it might have been covered in my hunter safety class but that was 33 years ago and I've never even heard of anyone who owns one of those type guns.
65 posted on 03/03/2004 8:49:50 AM PST by TigersEye (Regime change in the courts. Impeach activist judges!)
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To: TigersEye
The term "Bore" is the same as the term "gauge". A four bore is a lead ball that weighs one quarter of a pound.
66 posted on 03/03/2004 12:06:34 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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