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Woman Dies Weeks After Cop Shoots Guide Dog
theINDYchannel.com ^ | Thu Mar 4, 3:59 PM ET

Posted on 03/04/2004 9:17:35 PM PST by hookman

A Madison County mother believes her daughter's death could have been prevented if an Anderson police officer had not shot her dog to death last month.

Andrea Hill, 26, died after suffering an epileptic seizure Saturday, RTV6's Jennifer Carmack reported.

Hill's mother, Linda Hall, said her medically trained black lab, Max, alerted her whenever her daughter was having a seizure.

"My dog wasn't here to let me know she had a seizure and she suffocated," Hall said.

Max was shot to death by an Anderson police officer Feb. 6. It all started when Hill's 6-year-old son didn't come home, so she called police to help with the search.

"When they first went to the house, there was a very vicious dog within the home," Anderson Deputy Chief Mark Yeskie said.

Hall said she put Max in a bedroom and left with another officer to look for her grandson, but when Officer Phil Allen re-entered the home to check for the child inside, police said Hill had opened the bedroom door, letting the dog out.

"Basically he came out and started attacking the officer. He got to the degree where he was growling, had his mouth open trying to bite the officer," Yeskie said. "You have an officer that's being viciously attacked by a 60-pound dog, and he had no choice."

According to the police report, the officer kicked the dog and shot it several times, Carmack reported, but Hall said the dog didn't pose a threat.

"He opened that door and he shot the dog in the face. The dog came at his shoe, but he didn't bite him. He didn't hurt him. He was getting at his shoe to try to get him to leave," Hall said.

Police said they were not told that the dog was medically trained.

"Through this entire incident we were never told anything special about this dog. It was a 60-pound black lab, is all we knew at the time," Yeskie said. "We're sorry for her death, for the destruction of the dog, but I think we reacted properly."

The Hall family said they are considering filing a lawsuit against the city and police department, Carmack reported.

"I explained to the officers when they came to interview us that the dog was a medical trained dog for epilepsy," Hall said. "If Max would have been alive, we wouldn't have buried my daughter today (Wednesday). Yes, I'm angry."


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cop; dog; donutwatch; leo; petkillers; pigs; shoots; warondogs; workingdogs
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To: DugwayDuke
Today, police are trained to protect themselves in any situation. Rightly so, but part of that training is to kill dogs when there is the slightest indication that an officer might be in danger.

It's the path of least resistance for the Police. They have good reasons for their training since many individuals in "bad" areas of town also like to have dogs that bite. With that said it's also used as a signal by the Police of who is in charge of a particular situation.
51 posted on 03/05/2004 6:53:30 AM PST by e_castillo
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To: ambrose
(Y)our "Officer Friendly" in action...

Typical housecall procedure:

1) Ring Bell
2) Shoot Dog
3) Identify Self
4) Arrest Occupants

In pressure situations, dispense with Step #1 and Step #3.

52 posted on 03/05/2004 7:03:09 AM PST by bondjamesbond (John Kerry is nothing more than Ted Kennedy without a dead girl in the car.)
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To: LadyDoc
This was NOT a "guide" dog. It probably wasn't a trained dog. they would not have had to put a trained dog in a room to prevent it from biting a visitor. Why did they do that? Maybe because it was not a "trained" dog at all, merely a housepet with a little training. And Labs don't attack, unless they are trained to attack strangers.... want to bet there is something "missing" in this article? Like illicit drugs also hidden in the bedroom, where they just happened to find the dog? And death in an epileptic seizure is extremely rare...would love to see the autopsy.

Geez, you are thick headed.

1. The lady locked the dog in the bedroom because she expected people to tromp in and out, and didn't want to have to worry about the dog as well - further, the dog would get underfoot.

2. The house should have been thoroughly swept first thing. If there was anyplace the child would not be, it would be the house. Deputy Dope simply had no cause to be poking around further - there was no reason to believe the child was in that room (and before you give me some song and dance about how he'd be a well trained police machine, you need to know that Anderson is one of the poorer communities in Indiana - and can only afford the most doltish, least trained and poorly compensated cops).

3. How friendly is a dog going to be when a strange man walks into a room in its house while the owner is outside and away? I'd be positive it wouldn't be a happy wagger. The words "see dog, close door" would be applicable.

4. Given your keen powers of observation, I'm sure you'd be able to link the daughters fatal seizure with global warming and the Loch Ness monster. What was your point? Your complete fabrication of a druggie story?

53 posted on 03/05/2004 7:10:53 AM PST by Cornelius Jay McGuyver
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To: LadyDoc
I am imagining it something like this.

1) She calls the police to report her missing son.
2) The police arrive at the house and upon seeing a dog, the officer (likely one who is afraid of dogs as quite a few people are for some reason in today's society) asks her to lock the dog away.
3) She lets the dog out when she leaves with the officer to go search for her son.
4) Another officer comes back to her house to check and see if her son returned.
5) The dog is already upset because his Master is upset and he has already been locked in a room recently. He sees a strange person entering his packs home and growls defensively.
6) Officer sees dog and kicks at it to scare it away (obviously knows nothing about dog behavior)
7) The dog snaps at the foot and is then shot because he "attacked" the officer.

All police officers, not just those assigned to a K-9 unit, should have training when it comes to dog behavior. There is a difference between a trained attack dog guarding drugs and a family pet that is confused and upset. Too often if a dog doesn't remain perfectly still, it is shot when it doesn't pose a threat.
54 posted on 03/05/2004 7:12:34 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: squidly
I had a 60 lb black lab (SUE) and I never figured she would be a problem to any one until a guy holding a stick started yelling at me. She went after him and It was all I could do to stop her.
55 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:14 AM PST by 20yearvet
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To: LadyDoc
I used the term "guide dog" because most people can understand what I mean. The traditional "guide dog" was used to help the visually impaired. There are are sorts of disabilities which qualify the person for an animal assistant. During the first year of puppy training, these programs are pretty much the same. Then they animal gets specialized training. The dogs are selected to be even-tempered, intelligent, healthy, and versatile.

From the article, it sounds to me like this dog trained to be a "medical assistant." The dog is trained to sense when its master is in distress and alert to that fact.

56 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:37 AM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: Cornelius Jay McGuyver
1. The lady locked the dog in the bedroom because she expected people to tromp in and out, and didn't want to have to worry about the dog as well - further, the dog would get underfoot.

a trained dog is trained not to get underfoot. Most people have visitors tromping around all the time: Plumbers, electricians, meter readers, mailmen. If your dog bites, you might put him in a room, but you also warn the visitor. If the police was merely barked or nipped by a dog, one truly doubts he would have resorted to shooting an animal. Few policemen would risk shooting anyone or any animal in a closed room at close range. Therefore, logically (unless the cop has been written up in the past for anger management problems) once must logically assume the dog attacked him, assume the woman didn't warn the police the dog attacked strangers, and one must also assume this was not a dog trained by anyone. Since the family was asking for money for this "trained" dog, one wonders if the reason is dollar signs...

2. The house should have been thoroughly swept first thing. If there was anyplace the child would not be, it would be the house. Deputy Dope simply had no cause to be poking around further - there was no reason to believe the child was in that room (and before you give me some song and dance about how he'd be a well trained police machine, you need to know that Anderson is one of the poorer communities in Indiana - and can only afford the most doltish, least trained and poorly compensated cops).

Too many stories of "lost" kids who are found hiding in closets etc. And so the police when called first inspect the house for such hiding places. So why didn't the lady offer to hold the dog when they wanted to inspect the kids' room?

3. How friendly is a dog going to be when a strange man walks into a room in its house while the owner is outside and away? I'd be positive it wouldn't be a happy wagger. The words "see dog, close door" would be applicable.

Again, trained dogs don't attack strangers. Normal dogs might attack a stranger--they also attack mailmen, neighbor's kids etc. I've cared for many in emergency rooms. A dog that viciously attacks a person is put to sleep.

4. Given your keen powers of observation, I'm sure you'd be able to link the daughters fatal seizure with global warming and the Loch Ness monster. What was your point? Your complete fabrication of a druggie story?

My point is that death from seizures are rare...and I would check the autopsy before believing the story. However, in this day and age, one assumes a nice lawyer like Senator Edwards will get the mother lots and lots of dough since juries will never question the sob story, nor ever ever think that the seizure might have occured due to neglect (mom not giving medicine on time, or mom letting daughter unobserved)... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

57 posted on 03/05/2004 10:12:20 AM PST by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: hookman
Labs are a very interesting breed (I've owned three in the past and am getting ready to buy a fourth). On the surface they are one of the most mellow, tolerant, and friendly breeds of dog you can buy. When my kids were babies they used to latch on to my last labs ears and tail, and she would drag them around the house without so much as a whimper or the slightest hint of irritation. Unlike most breeds, labs actually LIKE playing with small children...they consider them a part of their "pack" and will take an abolutely incredible amount of abuse before they finally rebel.

Still, labs do tend to be territorial and WILL attempt to scare off anyone who they consider a threat. Like the incident in the story, I once had a police officer enter my home (neighbors kid slashed my wifes tire TWICE) without even thinking about the dog. She was about 18 months old and I'd never even seen her BARK at a person before, but she came tearing through the house and went completely nuts trying to scare him off. She never bit, but she made it clear that she WOULD if he tried to come in any further. I've only ever seen that kind of behavior in a lab once before...with the lab I'd had prior to that, when a homeless guy walked into my front yard while my wife was turning the flowerbed. The dog flipped, the homeless guy beat a hasty retreat, and the dog went back to sleep under its bush.

People can love their dobies, their rots, their poms, or whatever breed they may have as much as they want, but I believe that the Lab is the best all around breed for families. Smart, friendly, and incredibly protective. And when was the last time you read a story about a LAB ripping some kids arm off?
58 posted on 03/05/2004 10:31:14 AM PST by Arthalion
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To: LadyDoc
a trained dog is trained not to get underfoot. Most people have visitors tromping around all the time: Plumbers, electricians, meter readers, mailmen.

"Doc" (I put it in quotes because you seem a bit too thick to actually be one), it is apparent that you haven't the first clue on dog training and handling, nor do you seem to understand the function of a trained medical assistance dog.

This is not a security animal, nor does it lead a blind person around. It is trained to react to very specific signs of seizure which its senses can pick up (of course, were you really a competent family practitioner and current on your continuing studies, you'd have run across such material by now).

Were you to have read the article, the mother was out searching with the rest of the cops while this bozo simply wandered about the house. The article is silent as to whether the house was initially swept, which would have been SOP - thus there was no cause for this cop to even open the door on the room where she put the dog before walking out to search.

In the future, when you get the urge to opine on dog training, police procedure or medicine, please refrain - its apparent that you know nothing about any of them.

59 posted on 03/05/2004 10:58:07 AM PST by Cornelius Jay McGuyver
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To: Skooz
I put my two up because I want to protect them. I've got a 140 pound dane and a 190 pound mastif. Too many people know too little about how to act around dogs. I don't want to take the chance.

Both are very well mannered, but can be protective of their family. One would not be advised to go "searching" around in my house if I were not there. It's there house too and they tend to be a bit territorial and not too understanding of strangers who have no business in their house.
60 posted on 03/05/2004 12:10:42 PM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: BayouCoyote
"Eulogy of The Dog"
beautiful.
61 posted on 03/05/2004 1:44:09 PM PST by hookman
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To: hookman
I hope the family sues the police big time. Talk about stupid!
62 posted on 03/05/2004 1:50:25 PM PST by hershey
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To: LadyDoc
the seizure might have occured due to neglect (mom not giving medicine on time, or mom letting daughter unobserved)...

Is there any wild accusation cop-suckers won't stoop to iuse?

63 posted on 03/05/2004 5:38:38 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Despise not the jester. Often he is the only one telling the truth)
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To: LadyDoc
And do an autopsy to see why a person died of a simple seizure:

What is the basis for saying it was a simple seizure?

Andrea Hill, 26, died after suffering an epileptic seizure Saturday, RTV6's Jennifer Carmack reported.

64 posted on 03/05/2004 6:40:00 PM PST by Ken H
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To: LadyDoc
Medically trained dog? Sorry, I don't buy that. Dogs that are formally trained don't go around snapping and biting at people. They are chosen for their calm temperament.

Indeed, a dog "trained" to get help when a person has an epileptic attack would be no good if it attacked people who came to help the victim.... sounds like they trained the dog to attack strangers, and now want money...

If the family is lying about Max, they would not have a prayer in court. Their whole case depends on the claim that Max was a medically trained dog.

What would be your opinion of the events recounted in this article if it turns out that Max was indeed medically trained?

65 posted on 03/05/2004 7:10:53 PM PST by Ken H
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To: hookman
The police were just doing their jobs, following standard procedure. There is no record of any policeman ever vioating a citizen.























/sarcasm
66 posted on 03/06/2004 12:41:41 AM PST by Gigantor (The Revolutionary War was fought over less than what the government does every day today...)
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To: oceanperch
"the dog should have been restrained."

Being behind a closed door wasn't enough, ha?
67 posted on 03/06/2004 12:46:21 AM PST by Gigantor (The Revolutionary War was fought over less than what the government does every day today...)
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To: philetus
"Ya, them Labs are one vicious breed. "

Come in to my house without me there and my 12 year old pure bred black lab will tear you ass up.

He's bitten 3 people over the years and is trained to protect the family !

All 3 bites were on people who tried to smack his nose because he barked at them.

He'll lick you to death after 30 seconds of knowing you if one of the family is there but watch out if we're not around because he'll tear you up !

68 posted on 03/06/2004 12:49:51 AM PST by america-rules (It's US or THEM so what part don't you understand ?)
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To: LadyDoc
You may have the book smarts to be a doctor, but you are severly lacking in the common sense department.

69 posted on 03/06/2004 12:54:55 AM PST by Gigantor (The Revolutionary War was fought over less than what the government does every day today...)
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To: SpyGuy; ambrose
than it is to prove that any significant number of police officers wantonly shoot "anything that moves."

Tell that to Amadou Diallo.

70 posted on 03/11/2004 5:46:29 AM PST by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: disarmcops

Welcome to FR


72 posted on 05/28/2005 12:20:30 PM PDT by Skooz (Admit Nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter Accusations.)
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To: ambrose
some people have no business with guns let a alone a badge
73 posted on 05/28/2005 12:22:51 PM PDT by Charlespg (Civilization and freedom are only worthy of those who defend or support defending It)
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To: disarmcops

You guys are just as bad as Jessie Jackson -- you second guess the cps every chance you get.

If a big ol' dog came after me, I would shoot it too.

Next time you need help, call Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton.


74 posted on 05/28/2005 12:24:53 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Of all the idiots I've known in my life, none of them were retarded (W. Earl Brown - "Warren," SAM))
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To: ambrose
officer was in fear for his life...

Just a pat anti lawsuit answer...

75 posted on 05/28/2005 12:31:15 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Taglines often reveal a lot about the inner person...)
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To: LadyDoc
. It probably wasn't a trained dog. they would not have had to put a trained dog in a room to prevent it from biting a visitor. Why did they do that?

Probably so that the trigger-happy cops wouldn't shoot the dog.

Cops are trained to kill dogs as part of their oath ...you know , "to protect and serve".

Only thing is, they protect their own butts and serve no one but themselves.

The first thing the JBT's did at Waco was to shoot the dogs.

It seems like your local officer friendly has learned a lot from the Feds.

76 posted on 05/28/2005 12:34:19 PM PDT by ActionNewsBill ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act")
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To: hookman
I guess it would be possible to make a Lab mean but it would take a real pro.

I have owned several. The one I have now thinks everyone is his pal. Totally worthless as a watch dog except he might try to lick a burgler to death.

77 posted on 05/28/2005 12:38:39 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: SpyGuy
I've seen far more cops who shouldn't have a badge let alone a gun than I have seen vicious dogs.

This cop should be fired and then sued into poverty.

L

78 posted on 05/28/2005 12:41:00 PM PDT by Lurker (Remember the Beirut Bombing; 243 dead Marines. The House of Assad and Hezbollah did it..)
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To: 20yearvet
Dogs are very protective of their owners and their homes. It does not matter what breed they are. I have a 16 1/2 year old 26 pound Sheltie, and he still will chase a strange man back to his car if he gets near me. I also have a 3 1/2 year old Malamute/Husky/Lab mix who will get between me and any strange man who comes near me. He has pinned a man against my foyer wall, and it turned out that man had bad intentions.

Neither of my dogs has been trained to be attack dogs or guard dogs.
79 posted on 05/28/2005 12:50:04 PM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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Comment #80 Removed by Moderator

To: ambrose
Too many cops are afraid of dogs. They think any noise from a dog, any movement, is an "aggressive" signal. Police academies ought to train new recruits on how to read dogs' body language--it isn't that hard.
81 posted on 05/28/2005 12:53:31 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: Cornelius Jay McGuyver

They did not say where the daughter was. Perhaps the dog was defending her.


82 posted on 05/28/2005 12:53:52 PM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: hershey

I think so, too. What a weenie of a cop to shoot a lab!


83 posted on 05/28/2005 12:55:09 PM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: DugwayDuke

Aren't Danes just a fantastic breed? I rescued one 2 years ago, and I'm completely hooked.


84 posted on 05/28/2005 12:55:55 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: RefugeeFromA2

I think I Agree

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1412388/posts


85 posted on 05/28/2005 12:56:56 PM PDT by Charlespg (Civilization and freedom are only worthy of those who defend or support defending It)
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To: Ken H

I would think that the girl's doctor could corroborate Max's abilities as a trained medical dog.


86 posted on 05/28/2005 12:57:47 PM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: hookman
People who claim that a lab can't be vicious are as bad as those who claim every "pit bull" is a walking time bomb. While different breeds may be less likely to have certain characteristics there are broad ranges of behaviors, learned and inherited in all breeds.
My brother owned the sweetest yellow lab for years until one day she jumped, unprovoked, into a baby carriage and bit the baby on the face. We owned a black lab for years who loved everyone, including his previous owner who had beaten him repeatedly with a bicycle chain. He wouldn't hurt a fly, even when he was attacked by other dogs. However, his predecessor, a mutt, was attacked viciously by a black lab just for getting too close to the other dog's territory.
87 posted on 05/28/2005 12:58:30 PM PDT by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: hookman

""When they first went to the house, there was a very vicious dog within the home," Anderson Deputy Chief Mark Yeskie said."

He was protecting his people you a**hat!


88 posted on 05/28/2005 12:58:54 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: SpyGuy

"Scumbag dog. I am sick of these kibble eaters with 8 IQs biting at anything that moves."

You're absolutely right, the cop is supposed to have the higher IQ and act accordingly instead of falling back on his reptile brain instincts.


89 posted on 05/28/2005 1:01:17 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: hookman

Well, let's face it...the boys in blue do a hard, thankless job, and sometimes are quite heroic...but for what they pay local cops, you're not likely to be able to hire the sharpest knife in the drawer.


90 posted on 05/28/2005 1:05:59 PM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: proudofthesouth

"Dogs are territorial creatures. Some of them will growl at a stranger who enters their turf."

Cops are territorial creatures. Some of them will growl at a citizen who enters their turf.


91 posted on 05/28/2005 1:06:07 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: hookman

Even if the dog did growl, what the hell did the cop expect? He was a strange man that, according to the dog, that did not belong in the house. The dog reacted like many dogs would. Most dogs will not actually attack if you slowly back away. The dog just wants to make sure you're clearing his "territory" and the area he's protecting.

The cop used absolutely no judgement whatsoever. That is obvious from his actions. Did he think the dog would kill him? If so, he has no business being a cop considering all the real and credible threats out there to a cop.

The cop should be summarily fired for atrocious lack of judgement.


92 posted on 05/28/2005 1:06:38 PM PDT by DaGman
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To: hookman

Let's hope they sue the pants off the police department. Stupid, stupid, stupid. None of this had to happen.


93 posted on 05/28/2005 1:07:55 PM PDT by hershey
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To: hookman

The police department needs to replace the dog.


94 posted on 05/28/2005 1:10:40 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: Threepwood

" My habitually drunken neighbor can't go near the animal, and if homeless people try to talk to me they get a message. "


LOL... say, can I trade in my current creepy senile peeping tom on an ATV neighbor for your drunken neighbor? That is as long as he's too drunk to walk outside of his home.


95 posted on 05/28/2005 1:11:41 PM PDT by SunnySide (Ephes2:8 ByGraceYou'veBeenSavedThruFaithAGiftOfGodSoNoOneCanBoast)
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To: Dustbunny

Unfortunately it will not bring back her daughter. What a true tragedy.


96 posted on 05/28/2005 1:13:01 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: hookman

First this woman loses her six year old son and then she can't make other arrangments to monitor her 26 year old daughter after the loss of the dog. She knew the dog was gone. She doesn't sound reliable nor does her account of the events surrounding the death of the dog sound reliable.


97 posted on 05/28/2005 1:13:38 PM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: squidly

My son was quadriplegic, and we got a Canine Companion for him. A 70 lb. black lab named Harley.

When we got him, I was away. It was just my son in his wheelchair and my husband.

We had him about a week, when I came home. They tell you to attach his leash to the wheelchair and bed for the 1st 2 weeks, so that he bonds to the person in the chair and bed, rather than anyone else in the family.

Anyway, I came home and went into my son's room to see him and his new dog..........and the dog growled at me. He scared me for a moment. I didn't go any further and the dog never got up. He growled while he was lying at my son's feet.

Of course, he was on a leash and I knew it. But Harley is the greatest, most gentlest dog there is.

Very sad that the cop thought he had to shoot him. Labs are the best.


98 posted on 05/28/2005 1:15:25 PM PDT by Collier
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To: hookman

More and more police are proving every day that they are incapable of handling the responsibility of carrying a firearm. Stick to writing tickets, boys...secretaries with a badge is about the size of it.


99 posted on 05/28/2005 1:16:40 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (New England...the Sodom and Gomorrah of the 21st Century, and proud of it!)
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To: RGSpincich

"She doesn't sound reliable nor does her account of the events surrounding the death of the dog sound reliable."

True, this sounds like the M. Jackson, scam artist mother.
Yes, Jackson is an obvious tranny queer pedophile but this family scammed him regardless.

Yes, the fact remains a loyal lab dog died in vain and so did the daughter BUT the real guardian sounds like a flake.


100 posted on 05/28/2005 1:18:12 PM PDT by SunnySide (Ephes2:8 ByGraceYou'veBeenSavedThruFaithAGiftOfGodSoNoOneCanBoast)
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