Krauthammer: "Gibson's Blood Libel"

Washington Post ^ | Mar. 5, 04 | Charles Krauthammer

[AlbionGirl]

If Gibson had succumbed to the critics and publicly denounced his father, I don't think I could have had any respect for him as a man.

I agree wholeheartedly, and thanks for the compliment. It really is a visceral thing for me and maybe that's because I'm Italian and in Italian culture, the family is sacrosanct. And taking hits on the behalf of any one of it's members is a badge of honor.

[Torie]

One whom subscribes to the divinity of Christ I suppose. This is leading us where? Don't be coy.

[af_vet_1981]

But neither has he endorsed his father's rather kooky views on the Holocaust.

That is correct (although I believe he should rebuke his father and not suffer sin upon him). Mel Gibson admitted to Diane Sawyer that 6 million Jews were died in the Holocaust, according to this transcript. She asked the question for him and he answered "Sure."

ABC News

Hutton Gibson: "These people [World War II Nazis] are efficient. They know how to do things, and if they had set out to kill six million Jews, they would have done it. But all we hear about is Holocaust survivors. 'Oh, we knew it happened. Here is a survivor, there is a survivor. My father and mother were survivors.' They weren't that efficient.

There were too many survivors.

And they claim there were six million in Poland. After the war, there were 200,000, it is said. Therefore, he must have killed six million of them. They simply got up and left. They were all over the Bronx and Brooklyn and Sydney, Australia, and Los Angeles. They have to have some place to go where there is money. No, they don't work anywhere where they can get out of it. They are great pencil pushers and they are the superior people, and therefore they are entitled to the top jobs, supervisory stuff and so on."

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Transcript: The Passion February 22, 2004 Reporter: Diane Sawyer Producer: Primetime

• DIANE SAWYER: Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, age 85, who has written books and a newsletter with some decidedly provocative terms of phrase. He has called the Pope "Garrulous Karolus, the Koran kisser". And in that New York Times magazine interview, he seemed to be questioning the scope of the holocaust, sceptical that six million Jews had died. What does Gibson think?
• MEL GIBSON: Do I believe that there were concentration camps where defenceless and innocent Jews died cruelly under the Nazi regime? Of course I do, absolutely. It was an atrocity of monumental proportion.
• DIANE SAWYER: And you believe there were millions, six million, millions?
• MEL GIBSON: Sure.
• DIANE SAWYER: I think people wondered if your father's views were your views on this.
• MEL GIBSON: Their whole agenda here, my detractors, is to drive a wedge between me and my father and it's not going to happen. I love him. He's my father.
• DIANE SAWYER: And you will not speak publicly about him beyond that.
• MEL GIBSON: I am tight with him. He's my father. Got to leave it alone, Diane. Got to leave it alone.

[SJackson]

So what? Who the f--k is the UN? Most of those people are socialist scum who've been pushing for the demise of national sovreignity, using environmentalist blather to attack private property, and want to impose elite secular values on traditional societies (be they Christian or Muslim). Even worse, the UN allows French frauds and the Russian kleptocrats to pretend to great power status. By the way, your nom de guerre, Scoop Jackson, refers to the venerable anti-communist Senator, doesn't it? But do you realize that Israel's most ardent early support came from the Soviet Union and it's communist allies in th UN? So, it is ironic to me that one with your screen name could justify anything that the socialist swine at UN would do. So, I say again... who the f--k is the UN?

My, my. A potty mouth.

So, I say again... who the f--k is the UN?.

So, potty mouth, I say, why th f--k ask me?

You brought the UN up, Hamza.

[af_vet_1981]

One whom subscribes to the divinity of Christ I suppose. This is leading us where? Don't be coy.

Some posters have asserted that Christians were not involved as perps in the Holocaust. I know for a fact that some Catholics were genuine Christians because they lay down their lives to save the least of Yeshua of Nazareth's brethren during the Holocaust. Jews may have thought others (soldiers and civilians of many different nations)were Christians because they were baptized into a church, attended church, subscribed to the divinity of Christ, or otherwise claimed the name. There are even terrorists and their enablers in the Arabic speaking towns and villages that meet your criteria. I didn't know if your definition was based on behavior or subscription. There are quite a few definitions depending on whom you ask or read.

[Just mythoughts]

"As I said, I would never, and I mean never, give them what they were asking for with such relish, no matter what my Father said."

Mel's acts and deeds have demonstrated what his stand is.

Had Mel ignored scripture in making his movie to give his father credibility then there would be an issue, but that is not what happened. Mel made no secret from the beginning what he wanted to do and he was rejected. Seems to me this uprising has a whole lot more to do about Christ than Mel or his father, since it is Christ that Christians are to follow, not the words and sayings of men.

I have not heard of the book you mentioned, but I will be on the look out for it.

I thank you for telling me about it and I am sure that if anyone has "bad" things to say about it or its author, those things will soon follow.

[Torie]

Those who subscribe to a religion, any religion, or no religion, have many character flaws. All of us do. We are but human. We are capable of evil under certain circumstances. How Catholics or other Christians sects define who is a member, is beyond my pay grade. I suspect they themselves are a bit vague about it. All we can do is judge others by their actions, and dump the bridgework about who subscribes to what in the abstract. It is simple really.

[AlbionGirl]

I thank you for telling me about it and I am sure that if anyone has "bad" things to say about it or its author, those things will soon follow.

That made me chuckle. I just bought a used copy of The Life of Jesus Christ from Amazon, because the one I have I found at a garage sale many years, ago and it isn't in the best of conditions. I never thought I would pay that much for a used book, but I did and I did so with all my heart. So if you're interested in an overview of the book Amazon has a little take on it, and it's interesting to read.

[Just mythoughts]

YOu have become obsessed with Mel and his father.

[af_vet_1981]

YOu have become obsessed with Mel and his father.

Based on the news it seems much of the country is obsessed with the Gibson family this year ...

[Just mythoughts]

Thank you again, I did just check it out over at Amazon and do find the descriptions very interesting.

When I get it and get it read I will let you know.

I have spent so much of my time in the WORD, I am finding that I am limited about what 'historical' writings do to set the stage.

[af_vet_1981]

It is simple really.

If you say so,
1. Did Christians persecute, rob, assault, rape, expel, torture, and murder Jews during the last two millenia ?
2. Did Christians murder and help murder 6 million Jews during the Holocaust ?

[Pelham]

One wit describes Krauthammer's politics as "liberalism with very sharp teeth." It's the old Scoop Jackson, Cold Warrior wing of the Democrat Party, who joined with Reagan Republicans for foreign policy considerations. Unfortunately this has encouraged liberal hawks to call themselves 'conservative', and they like to define the political center as being somewhere in the vicinity of LBJ, permitting them to purge anyone to their right.

[Torie]

Some did, some did not, some resisted. Nazi's had a program to phase out Christianity. Christians were too unreliable, particularly believe it or not, German Catholics. Let me help you with some of this. Given power, even at times, Jews have committed evil. It is part of the human makeup. We have been endowed with genes that allow us to do great good, and great evil. It is up to us. If there is a God, he just watches and waits. If there is a God, he respects the right of humans to make choices, their own choices. He in that sense gives respect to our species.

[Just mythoughts]

"Based on the news it seems much of the country is obsessed with the Gibson family this year ..."


What a distorted statement. ALL but a couple of NEWS stories have USED the Gibson family to condemn a "movie" of all things. Christ is the one you have issues with so take it up with Him.

I have yet to discover exactly what you are demanding to be done. The movie is out, millions are watching it and yet you are beating a dead horse? What are your motivations?

Please don't use Balaam again that shoe will not fit.

[af_vet_1981]

I have yet to discover exactly what you are demanding to be done.

I don't think I've demanded that anything be done. I've voiced my opinion on this and many other threads as to what I think should be done. I'm watching the results of this movie on many threads where I see the online behavior of many who claim to have seen it. There are some posters who are very inspiring.

The doctrine of Balaam is certainly a valid topic when it comes to the Jews.

[AlbionGirl]

I have spent so much of my time in the WORD, I am finding that I am limited about what 'historical' writings do to set the stage.

I'm trying to incorporate both type of readings and it's difficult. I have to tell you that this movie opened my heart again to Jesus Christ, and that opened my eyes. So when I'm reading Scripture I pray to the Holy Spirit to give me the power to discern correctly.

I was baptized in the Catholic Faith but haven't been true to it in years. Truth be told, I'm having a hard time finding a Church where I sense the teachings are correct and firm, but one step at a time, and hopefully I'll find one, because I think it's important to commune and surround oneself with followers of Christ.

[Just mythoughts]

Well gee, Balaam was out for profit, it was our Heavenly Father who took the action and use his own "donkey" against him.

I find no application for what you claim under Balaam.

Is this why the liberals choose a "Donkey" as their mascott.

By the way my neighbor recently got himself a "donkey" and now every time I hear it braying I think of you and your usage of "Balaam", trying to prove what I cannot comprehend.

[af_vet_1981]

Some did, some did not, some resisted.

I understand your view then, that some Christians were perps in the Holocaust. As I said, I've heard it differently from others.

Given power, even at times, Jews have committed evil.

Some Jews have committed great evil. Our prophets did not blanch at listing the sins of our people. I think most Jews feel shame when even one Jew is a notorious sinner.

[af_vet_1981]

Well gee, Balaam was out for profit,

Many people in the religious entertainment industry, as well as religion in general some argue, are out for profit. The key issue of Balaam's doctrine is not the profit, but the Antisemitism. I thought you knew that.