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Krauthammer: "Gibson's Blood Libel"
Washington Post ^ | Mar. 5, 04 | Charles Krauthammer

Posted on 03/04/2004 10:24:16 PM PST by churchillbuff

Edited on 03/05/2004 10:48:45 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

Gibson's Blood Libel

By Charles Krauthammer Friday, March 5, 2004; Page A23

Every people has its story. Every people has the right to its story. And every people has a responsibility for its story. ...[snip]

Christians have their story too: the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Why is this story different from other stories? Because it is not a family affair of coreligionists. If it were, few people outside the circle of believers would be concerned about it. This particular story involves other people. With the notable exception of a few Romans, these people are Jews. And in the story, they come off rather badly.

Because of that peculiarity, the crucifixion is not just a story; it is a story with its own story -- a history of centuries of relentless, and at times savage, persecution of Jews in Christian lands. This history is what moved Vatican II, in a noble act of theological reflection, to decree in 1965 that the Passion of Christ should henceforth be understood with great care so as to unteach the lesson that had been taught for almost two millennia: that the Jews were Christ killers.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: bigot; clueless; fool; gibson; krauthammer; liberalchristian; missingthemark; moron; moviereview; passion
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To: ninenot
"First of all, this runs counter to Catholic (teaching) that the Jews were not the primary instigators or power brokers…Pilate was a tyrant in firm control, with no fear of his being blackmailed. The (script) repeats the pre-Vatican II canard that the Jews were the killers of Christ."

All I know from the above is the Vatican II conference did away with Jews as Christ killers. Even if this this was perpetrated locally and not directly from Rome (the Vatican). And was not Church doctrine. If this is wrong then please explain.

641 posted on 03/05/2004 9:54:32 AM PST by dennisw (“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”)
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
If the movie had been 20% less violent it would probably garnered no criticism but then maybe nobody would have gone to see it.

That speculation ascribes as primary incentive to view a movie (and particularly, Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"), "to see violence."

It's an incorrect speculation. And publicly asserting such speculation is belittling to those who have viewed the movie.

642 posted on 03/05/2004 9:54:40 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
"This is the unvarnished TRUTH and there is NO getting around it."

No, it's not. The account of Christ had nothing to do with the holocaust. Hitler's goal was a 'master race'. That's pointedly evolutionary thinking.

643 posted on 03/05/2004 9:55:32 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: Taliesan; sinkspur
The flogging is also based on Isaiah 52:13-15. This version is brought to you from the Jewish Virtual Library

13 Behold, My servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high.

14 According as many were appalled at thee--so marred was his visage unlike that of a man, and his form unlike that of the sons of men--

15 So shall he startle many nations, kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they perceive.

And NIV

Isaiah 52

The Suffering and Glory of the Servant

13 See, my servant will act wisely ; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.

14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him - his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness-

15 so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.

644 posted on 03/05/2004 9:55:37 AM PST by Jaded
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
"The most unendearing aspect of Christianity is its insistence that only through Christianity can one "be saved"; all others being damned to eternal torture. Such a belief system breeds a certain arrogance, and fosters contempt for people of other faiths."
..."True."

You can make that case of all religions.
What are we to think of a religion that serves up its own for crucifixion?


645 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:20 AM PST by rbmillerjr
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To: Congressman Billybob
So I'll just say, strike one, and you get more than one.

Ditto that.

646 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:20 AM PST by Tribune7 (Vote Toomey April 27)
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To: dennisw
The article you cite, written by Todd Baker, is both disingenuous and uncharitable. Baker, like other dispensationalists, holds to a viewpoint, contrary to historic Christian theology, that God is not finished with the Jewish people in terms of their destiny in history. Historic Christian theology, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox, holds that the church is the new Israel, grafted onto the roots of the Old Testament Jewish "church," to use the metaphor Paul cites in Romans 11. Some Reformed believers, including most postmillenialists, believe that national Israel will be re-grafted onto the roots of Old Testament Israel before Judgment Day, supplying the basis for Paul's prediction in Romans 11:26 that all Israel shall be saved.

Dispensationalism, in many respects a 19th Century offshoot of Reformed theology, holds that in the "Church Age" (basically from Jesus' resurrection until the pre-Tribulation rapture of the church, personal salvation can be found, for Jew and Gentile, only by knowing (or accepting) by faith that Jesus was the Messiah Who died for that person's sins. So far this teaching differs little from Reformation theology. Where dispensationalists differ from other conservative Protestants is in their belief that the Jewish people remain a chosen nation in the eyes of God in a way that America, France, Sri Lanka, Sudan, etc., are not. Thus, the claims for the glorious future for national Israel made in the Old Testament are still valid.

In dispensational theology, the church, God's people in the Church Age, will be raptured well before Armageddon and Judgment Day, usually just before the seven years of tribulation that will occur before Jesus Christ's Second Coming. During the period, Israel as a nation will accept Jesus Christ as its promised Messiah. Messianic Jewish preachers, 12,000 from each of their nation's 12 tribes, will spread the Gospel during a period of intense persecution of the remaining Christian believers by a one world government led by the Antichrist and a one world religion led by the False Prophet. National Israel will play an heroic role in the days before Armageddon, and the armies of the world will converge upon the Jewish state. Jesus Christ, returning as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and legions of angels, will destroy the armies of the world at the Battle of Armageddon, as indicated in Revelation 19. After that, Jesus Christ Himself will establish an earthly kingdom for 1,000 years, ruling a restored world from Jerusalem.

The dispensational distinctives are not heterodox. There have been many believers in a premillenial eschatology, including ante-Nicean church fathers, and Reformed and even Catholic theologians. However, the elements of national Israel's special role in end times events and the disappearance of Christian believers from the world well before Judgment Day are unique to dispensationalism. There are numerous schools of interpretation of the Book of Revelation and end times events. However, the right viewpoint on eschatology has nothing to do with personal salvation or the merits of Jesus' Substitutionary Atonement as payment for the sins of the individual believer. That is why the ancient creeds, such as the Apostles Creed, the statements of the early church councils, the Reformation era confessions, and the Council of Trent discussed only the existence of a final Judgment Day. None speculated on the details of end times events.

Some dispensationalists, such as David Hunt, Zola Levitt, Carl McCall, and Todd Baker, have tried to smear their opponents as believers in "Replacement Theology." a neologism contrived by dispensationalists as a smear tactic. In his article, Baker states, "Furthermore, it can be said without fear of exaggeration that the devastation imposed and inflicted on the Jewish people by the Church's anti-Jewish reading of Matthew 27:25 has shed oceans of Jewish blood issuing into a ceaseless stream of misery and desolation that horribly culminated in Hitler's Holocaust." However, Baker nowhere cites from any official doctrinal statement from the early church, the Middle Ages, the Reformation or Counter-Reformation era, or modern times, or from any major theologian, Protestant or Catholic, that supports his statement that the Christian church has read Matthew 27:25 in a manner that supports the blood libel. The only libel evident in his article is on Baker's reputation as an honest theologian.

The "blood libel" exists as a matter of folk theology, outside of the official creeds and confessions of the Christian churches. It is also true that the churches, especially the Catholic Church, did not do enough to counter these folk beliefs. Dowsing, haunted houses, St. Peter as the gatekeeper at the pearly gates, the existence of UFOs, and Halloween ghosts are folk beliefs as well. However, we would not judge the Christian churches just because many people believe in such things. Should we judge the Founding Fathers and the limited government and individual rights philosophy behind the Constitution because some Americans held slaves and some states still supported a state church in the first days of our Republic?

The predominant and historical Christian belief is that in the Church Age the Christian church is the "Israel of God," cited by the apostle Paul in Galatians 6:16. Despite what Baker might claim, this belief is no more anti-Semitic than the secular belief that America replaced Britain as the leading Western democracy after 1945 is anti-British. To say otherwise is as much an infamy on fellow Christian believers as and the insistence of certain Catholic traditionalists on "extra ecclesia nullum salus" and the belief of some Church of Christ adherents that those who are not baptized by immersion by a Campbellite minister are eternally damned.

The proper term for the historic Christian belief is properly called Covenantal Theology. The Westminster Confession of Faith gives the best explanation of this position. "This covenant of grace is frequently set forth in Scripture by the name of a testament, in reference to the death of Jesus Christ the Testator, and to the everlasting inheritance, with all things belonging to it, therein bequeathed. This covenant was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the gospel: under the law it was administered by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the paschal lamb, and other types and ordinances delivered to the people of the Jews, all foresignifying Christ to come,..., by whom they had full remission of sins, and eternal salvation; and is called the old Testament. Under the gospel, when Christ, the substance, was exhibited, the ordinances in which this covenant is dispensed are the preaching of the Word, and the administration of the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper: ...in them, it is held forth in more fullness, evidence, and spiritual efficacy, to all nations, both Jews and Gentiles; and is called the new Testament. There are not therefore two covenants of grace, differing in substance, but one and the same, under various dispensations. "

It is a historic fact that in the three centuries before the Holocaust, discrimination against the Jews was being eliminated, beginning in those nations most affected by Reformed theology: the Netherlands, Britain, and America. In the years after our war for independence, virtually all legislation and judicial rulings discriminating against Jews were eliminated in the thirteen states. The new Constitution denied the Federal government the authority to establish a state religion or to impose a religious test on its officeholders. Most of the new state constitutions did likewise. In our first century as a republic, Jews in America suffered far less discrimination than did Catholics, Mormons, and Quakers.

After 1880, anti-Semitism sharply increased in America as an offshoot of Darwinian evolutionary theory known as Nordic supremacy became increasingly popular. In the waning years of the 19th Century, America's intellectual elite, including the Northeastern WASP establishment, was pulling away from their Calvinist and orthodox Christian past under the sway of Biblical higher criticism and naturalistic philosophy. If God's revelation was viewed as at best flawed and at worst primitive fables, a new philosophy took its place, offering support to the adage that nature abhors vacuums. That philosophy was that of the Nordic "Superman," endowed by "Nature" to rule over the world and the lesser breeds, in other words, the "blond beast" of Nietzsche, exercising his "will to power."

This worldview, untempered by long traditions of individual liberty and representative government as in America or Britain, was a major focus of Nazism. To the theories of Nordic (Aryan) supremacy and the will to power were added anti-capitalist concepts taken from both Marxist and "throne and altar" critics of the free market, a major element of homosexual eroticism, as documented in the book, The Pink Swastika and occultism, as Hitler and other leading Nazis were fascinated with Hindu mysticism, ancient Germanic paganism, and even the Jewish Cabala.

Unlike Marxism, Nazism is not a comprehensive philosophy. It is eclectic in origins. However, none of the elements of the Nazi worldview were derived from Scripture or the historic Christian faith. Furthermore, numerous statements by Hitler and other leading Nazis evidenced their disdain for the claims of the Christian religion.

Baker states in his article: "The anti-Jewish interpretation of Matthew 27:25 is simply false because it plainly contradicts the general teaching of Scripture regarding the present and future reality of the Jews being God's Chosen People (Romans 9-11). This kind of misinterpretation of Scripture is dangerous because such a meaning has helped spawn and stimulate Christian anti-Semitism via the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Russian pogroms, the Holocaust, and more subtly, Replacement Theology." The Crusaders persecuted Jews, as did the Inquisition. However, Baker overlooks the historical fact that the main targets of these events were in the former case Muslims and Orthodox believers and in the latter case Protestants and Muslims. The Russian pogroms had nothing to do with Western Christianity; I don't know what the attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church was in this matter. The Holocaust stemmed from Nazism, which was itself anti-Christian. As for Replacement Theology being cast in the same venue as these persecutions, Baker is nothing short of slanderous.

647 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:29 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
"Buff, Krauthammer's perspective is just as valid as yours. Twenty minutes from now, you'll be in high dudgeon about something else. " Exactly. America lurches from one sensational happening to another

Excuse, me but it's KRAUTHAMMER who is in "high dudgeon" I'm just responding to his smear that Gibson's perpetrating a "blood libel." (Talk about hysterical rhetoric). Take you complaints about "sensationalizing" to him -- it's his sensational colum that triggered this thread.

648 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:50 AM PST by churchillbuff (?)
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
"The most unendearing aspect of Christianity is its insistence that only through Christianity can one "be saved"; all others being damned to eternal torture. Such a belief system breeds a certain arrogance, and fosters contempt for people of other faiths."

The Word is filled with those who are ignorant, willingly ignorant, sottish, etc.... stubborn, stiff-necked etc...

It is also written some willing to believe strong delusions, to the point Isaiah 66:4, and IIThessalonians2:11.

Christ first warning when asked about the signs of his return was "DECEPTION".

Hard to hold against those whose eyes have been sealed shut for their own protection by our Heavenly Father. We are also told in that Song of Moses about those who stick their fingers in the "apple" of his eye.

So as Christ told us "I have foretold you ALL things, have you READ?

649 posted on 03/05/2004 9:59:10 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
"The most unendearing aspect of Christianity

If somebody wrote about an "unendearing aspect" of Judaism, I wager you'd call him an antisemite. By signing off on a smear of Christianity, you come off like an anti-christian bigot. Too bad you think christianity is fare game for slurs that we'd never allow to be leveled against Judaism.

650 posted on 03/05/2004 9:59:19 AM PST by churchillbuff (?)
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To: churchillbuff
As a Jew, I'm disgusted by the kind of analysis presented here by Krauthammer. It's as if he can't understand that this movie presents the fundamental event in the history of Christianity in the most basic and human (yes, human) way that could ever be done. Anti-semitic? Rubbish, rubbish and rubbish again. Shame on you Mr. Krauthammer.
651 posted on 03/05/2004 10:01:10 AM PST by ZeitgeistSurfer
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To: churchillbuff
Krauthammer can take a flying leap - non-Christian need to "get over this" very badly. Let me try and spell it out . . . if the movie pisses you off, then it's not your story and - you - don't - understand - the story the way Christians do. You see Christians do - NOT - even notice the Jews - not at all - what we are drawn to is the suffering of God (IMHO I think it's quite telling that we get "me" centered interpretation of this movie by non-believers - indeed).

Want to know why you're mad Krauthammer? It has nothing to do with the potrayal of Jews in the movie. You're pissed because now you have to reconcile in your own mind who this man was - He said he went through what he did for YOU - and this is troubling, especially for a Jew. Your people missed the Messiah the first time around, but the good news is that it's not to late to accept His life, death, and ressurection.

652 posted on 03/05/2004 10:01:27 AM PST by realpatriot71 ("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
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To: churchillbuff
"Too bad you think christianity is fare game for slurs that we'd never allow to be leveled against Judaism."

Do not despair, the usage of the word "Christian" points to Christ. Stay in Christ's words (from the beginning) and no need for slurs.
653 posted on 03/05/2004 10:03:25 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: churchillbuff
Dear Mr. Krauthammer,
You are an idiot. Did you need this publicity this badly?
And by the way, the Satan depiction isn't called 'invention'. It's called artistic license. Just like when you go to church, and the Pastor doesn't just read out of the bible cold, then walk away. I guess all our church sermons should be without any inspiration now, too?

And by the way, your article sounds like it was writen by a 10 year old.
654 posted on 03/05/2004 10:04:08 AM PST by sfRummygirl ('The Purpose Driven Life' ;-))
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To: dennisw
Me too but he's so popular that if there was a retraction around I'd expect it to be front and center ....especially on this thread...lol

I see you hit this one with your boots running.
655 posted on 03/05/2004 10:04:26 AM PST by wardaddy (A man better believe in something or he'll fall for anything.)
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To: rbmillerjr
"No modern movie focuses on this loving act by our God. Giving His Son for us. That is why Christians are going to see this movie."

By the fruits....So far the fruits of this movie have not been so good if this forum is any example. It seems to have torn open old wounds and fostered not love but division. Mostly political division. I think that arch-Christian conservatives had high hopes that this movie would silence all the critics of the Christian Right. That it would shame the liberals and secular critics of the Christian Right into conversion and silence so that the Christian Right would finally get the "respect they deserve." Instead nothing much has changed and the frustration is palpable and ugly -consisting of throwing good men like Krauthammer over the side. You could not find a better man than he is.

Probably the movie has helped foster private piety. But the public fallout in some applications such as ecumenism has been damaging.

656 posted on 03/05/2004 10:05:11 AM PST by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: dennisw
All I know from the above is the Vatican II conference did away with Jews as Christ killers. Even if this this was perpetrated locally and not directly from Rome (the Vatican). And was not Church doctrine. If this is wrong then please explain.

Why not read what Vatican II said for yourself?

Guidelines on Religious Relations with the Jews

657 posted on 03/05/2004 10:05:45 AM PST by independentmind
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To: Betaille
Oh well, heck, let me come over there now and get you. I'm sorry my other Christians are so lazy. Geez, we are slipping.
658 posted on 03/05/2004 10:05:56 AM PST by sfRummygirl ('The Purpose Driven Life' ;-))
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To: GraniteStateConservative
Damn GSC,

I'm suprised this thread is now 600 posts later.

If I were Jewish, I'd be a gunfreak.

(I am anyhow)
659 posted on 03/05/2004 10:06:09 AM PST by wardaddy (A man better believe in something or he'll fall for anything.)
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To: MEGoody
The idea of a 'master race' is pointedly evolutionist, not Christian.

Indeed it is. But the prejudices of the useful idiots who served the master race theorists were all informed by Christianity.

Oh come on - just Christianity thinks it is the only way?

The other one that springs to mind is Islam--another offshoot of Judaism that just can't seem to coexist with Jews.

660 posted on 03/05/2004 10:07:27 AM PST by Agnes Heep
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