John Kerry was a member of the Naval Reserves until 1978!

Self ^ | 7 March 2004 | Self

[An.American.Expatriate]

According to the Boston Globe, John Kerry was discharged from the Naval Reserves on 16 February 1978!!

Although not on active duty, he retained his commission as an officer.

Can anyone get this out to the talk-shows??

[An.American.Expatriate]

opps, bad link-up

the Link on "self" above takes you to the Boston Globe page which shows the discharge date . . .

here is the link again http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/timeline.htm

[Keith in Iowa]

As a reservist, he certainly had some sort of reporting/drill requirements like a National Guard person would...did he fulfill his obligations? Where are the records? Will the media go after J.F'ing.K. Like they did Bush? They might on the 5th Tuesday of the next month where the name of the month does not contain the letter "R".

[yankeedame]

Can anyone get this out to the talk-shows??

Don't kid yourself, neighbor, they know. But remember, there are sins of omission as well as commission.

[Dacus943]

"Will the media go after J.F'ing.K. Like they did Bush?"

Damn right they will! After Fox News, Rush, Dennis Miller, Matt Drudge, etc. work this Story for at least a week!!!

[An.American.Expatriate]

Not necessarily . . . upon discharge from active duty, you can be placed in the so-called "inactive" reserves. There are no reporting requirements, no pay, etc....

However, it is significant that, as an officer - he retained his commission (if he had resigned it, he probably wouldn't have been in the reserves).

Some who may be more familiar with these matters may correct me here, but, since he accepted a promotion to full Lieutenant on January 1 1970 and was discharged from active duty 3 months later, he still had an "unfulfilled" commitment and COULD have been recalled to active duty.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Do they???

I stumbled across this by accident - I have always heard that Kerry was out in 1970 - not that he was still a commissioned officer during the protests and other treasonous activities . . .

[mdmathis6]

Not only that, an unsanctioned meeting, as an officer, with an enemy foriegn government should have been given at least a raised eye brow or two!

[Dacus943]

"he still had an "unfulfilled" commitment and COULD have been recalled to active duty"

Would you want this back stabbing SOB in your Outfit???

[An.American.Expatriate]

No Way!!

But that is beside the point - he went to paris and negotiated peace terms with the enemy while we where at war, while still a commissioned officer of the United States!

[MindBender26]

He was negotiating nothing. The DPRV knew he had no standing. He was just getting publicity photo ops to increase his stature with US leftists while DPRV sent pictures worldwide to show "real Progressive Americans" wanted war to end on their terms!.

This was not "negotiating," this was "aid and comfort for the enemy!"

[An.American.Expatriate]

Which is exactly my point!!!

And this very fact makes him ineligable to be preseident. In fact, he should never have been allowed to hold any public office!!

[PatrickHenry]

It's been a long time since I was an Army Reserve officer, so I won't rely on memory. According to this: Ready Reserve

"... the following individuals may be assigned to the Ready Reserve: 1. Military personnel released from active duty (other than active duty for training) who have incurred a total military obligation of up to eight years. ..."

As many of us know, the Ready Reserve is where you have those frequent meetings and the annual two-week active duty requirement. We don't have enough info on Kerry's situation yet, but this is definietly worth looking into.

[JoeGar]

He was probably in the inactive reserves and did not have to attend meetings. For example, my contract with the USMC was for six years. In 1970, when I was released from active duty after 4.5 years, I had to serve the remaining 1.5 years of my contract in the inactive reserves.

[judicial meanz]

John Kerry had a heck of a deal!

He joined in February 1968. He made Lieutenant in 1970. He was discharged in February 1970. I calculate 1 year 11 months and a few odd days of active duty service.

He was discharged from the USNR in 1978- date not given. That means he held a valid US Navy commission until 1978, and could be called to active duty at any time while in that status. As a matter of fact, inactive reserve members were called up for the Gulf Wars when they thought they were done with the service.

In less than 2 years, he joined, went through his basic officer training , served on a destroyer, went to swift boats, got all those cute medals, and made Lt(O-3).

I dont know what his original enlistment/commissioning contract was, but I know my original enlistment period was 6 years, with 4 to be served on active duty and the rest in the reserves.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Yes, this is what I recall as well - it would be interesting to know if it was just the "unfulfilled commitment" stuff, or something else - BUT the real point is he was STILL a commisioned officer!

PH - Since you were an officer, maybe you know the answer to this . . . does a commission "expire"?

[atomic conspiracy]

Under the UCMJ, it's enough to get him hanged. See my vanity post on this very subject and the need for a new Nuremberg-style tribunal.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092498/posts

[An.American.Expatriate]

Not exactly correct . . .

February 18, 1966 – Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy
January 1, 1970 – Kerry promoted to (full) Lieutenant
January 3, 1970 – Kerry requests discharge
March 1, 1970 – Kerry’s date of separation from Active Duty
February 16, 1978 - Discharged from the US Navy Reserves

[TrueBeliever9]

He joined in February 1968. He made Lieutenant in 1970. He was discharged in February 1970. I calculate 1 year 11 months and a few odd days of active duty service.

Did the "powers that be" in the Navy want to get Kerry out of the Navy more than Kerry wanted to get out of the Navy? It appears that the Navy was EXTREMELY anxious and willing to get rid of Kerry!

[Viet Vet in Augusta GA]

1. Commissions don't expire...you have to resign your commission at the end of your reserve service.
2. This is a non-story, and a non-issue. I stand second to no one in loathing and opposing Kerry, but there are better arguments against him,

[PatrickHenry]

PH - Since you were an officer, maybe you know the answer to this . . . does a commission "expire"?

I'm not certain. I resigned my commission when my active reserve time ended. That's the way it was always handled. And even so, we were then placed in some kind of deep innactive reserve status. I guess there's still some crumbling computer tape in the basement of the Pentagon with my name on it.

I do recall, however, that we were sometimes joined at meetings by new guys who had recently completed their active duty overseas, and who still had some Ready Reserve time to serve out. My guess -- and guess only -- is that such was Kerry's status, as it's known that he was send home from Viet Nam early.

[An.American.Expatriate]

1. Commissions don't expire...you have to resign your commission at the end of your reserve service.

That was my understanding, but I wasn't sure - thanks for the info. 2. This is a non-story, and a non-issue. I stand second to no one in loathing and opposing Kerry, but there are better arguments against him,

Why is it a non-story? As a commissioned officer he directly violated the Logan Act and, due to that violation he is ineligable under Section 3 of the 14th Ammendment to hold public office.

[judicial meanz]

That makes a little more sense.

He was in the Inactive Reserves for another 7-8 years past his discharge date, which is still an inordinately long time. I would expect to see 2-3 years, but 7-8?

Didn't he go to ROTC?

[An.American.Expatriate]

Thanks for the information PH - this is how I recalled it as well, but I was not an officer and my service occurred a bit later . . .

[maggief]

1966
_________________________________________________________

Graduates from Yale.


February 18: Kerry enlists in the US Navy.

October 19: Kerry is ordered into active duty.

December 16: Kerry receives his Navy commission, a few days after his 23rd birthday.

1967
_________________________________________________________

Kerry spends the year in military training.


December: Kerry begins his first tour of duty, serving on the guided-missile frigate USS Gridley.

1968
_________________________________________________________

February: With Kerry aboard, the Gridley sails into war to patrol the coast of Vietnam. He never came into contact with the enemy during this time.


June 6: Kerry's first tour ends as the Gridley returns home.

December: Begins second tour of duty as the skipper of swift boat No. 44, patrolling the Mekong Delta in southern Vietnam.

1969
_________________________________________________________

February 28: Kerry shoots and kills a Viet Cong guerilla who was threatening the lives of Kerry's crew. He received the Silver Star for his action.


April: Kerry ends his second and final tour in Vietnam.

1970
_________________________________________________________

January 3: Discharged from the Navy.

February: Kerry gives up on his first bid for office as a protest candidate in the race for the Third Congressional district.


May 23: Kerry marries Julia Thorne, his best friend's sister.

1971
_________________________________________________________

January: Attends ''Winter Soldier'' hearings in Detroit, but does not speak.


April 22: Kerry testifies before Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

April 23: Kerry and other veterans throw medals and ribbons over a fence at the Capitol to protest the war.

June 20: Debates John O'Neill on ''The Dick Cavett Show.''
1972
_________________________________________________________


September: Kerry wins the Democratic primary in the race for the Fifth Congressional District.

November: Loses his bid for Congress to Republican Paul W. Cronin in the general election.

1973
_________________________________________________________


September: Within a matter of days, Kerry's first daughter, Alexandra, is born and he enrolls in Boston College Law School.

1974
_________________________________________________________


August 9: President Nixon resigns.

1976
_________________________________________________________


May: Kerry earns his law degree from Boston College and later joins the Middlesex County district attorney's office.

1977
_________________________________________________________


January: Kerry is promoted to first assistant district attorney in Middlesex County

1978
_________________________________________________________


Feb. 16: Discharged from the US Navy Reserves.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/timeline.htm

[Arkie2]

Maybe in an inactive status? Even though I'm retired from the Air Force I'm still carried on a reserve list. If his status was inactive he wouldn't have had any duties. The more intersting question by far would be his activities with the peace groups after returning from Vietnam. If he still had his commision at that point he was dishonoring his uniform. We already know he dishonored his country. Sounds like fertile ground for Rush and Sean if it's true.

[An.American.Expatriate]

His exact status would be very interesting to know indeed - but even in inactive status, he retained his commission and was subject to recall to active duty until 1978.

[Turbo Pig]

Non-Issue. Little known secret, almost everyone who signs up in the military actually signs up for an 8 year stint. This is no matter how long an active duty period is on your contract. If your active duty period is less than 8 years, once your active duty period is complete, whether through completion of the contract, or resigning your commission, you are placed in the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserve) for the remainder of the 8 years. Once in the IRR, you are subject to recall to active duty at the desire of the government. This usually occurs to people that are in critical MOS (Military Occupational Specialties) that are in short supply during a crisis.

On paper there are standards that you are supposed to maintain in the IRR. In actuality all you have to do is be able to breath and walk. They send out annual "where are you" letters to IRR members. Most of them end up in the circular file, and the government really doesn't care. This is because if the government really wants you back on active duty, they will find you and request your presence. None of this changes the fact that Kerry was cavorting around with the enemy. It does mean that technically, he as not breaking any rules regarding his status in the IRR.

[kabar]

Kerry joined in 1966 and served on active duty until Jan 70. There is a two year hiatus in his service according to his bio. He then served 1972-78 in the USN Reserves. I don't know whether it was active or inactive. The thing I find strange, as a former naval officer who received a regular commission through NROTC, is the claimed approximately ten years in the service, active and reserve, with a two year gap. Very odd.

[kaboom]

Let Kerry's military service go, it's a non-issue for the media. He was in Vietnam, Bush wasn't, and that's all that matters in the service debate. It sucks, but that's the way it goes. Even Bush and his team realize this.

The real angle of atack on Kerry will be his post-Nam activities and voting record where he has been anti-military, anti-US and a liar ever since.

[Arkie2]

I disagree. It may be a non issue as far as the law is concerned but politics is another matter. Bush had a helluva time explaining his perfectly legal actions in the guard but the political fallout was huge. I say give Kerry the same treatment. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. It will put him on the defensive for weeks.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Kerry Met With Viet Cong And North Vietnamese In Paris In 1971

Wouldn't that be conspiring with the enemy?

He sounds just like his daddy.

Kerry's World - Father Knows Best

[An.American.Expatriate]

What you say is true, however, since he retained his commission and then acted as a "negotiator" with the enemy - without official sanction - he has violated Section 3 of the 14th Ammendment.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Thats the thread that got me started on a search for information, and then found the Boston Globe Page with his Reserve Discharge date . . .

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I followed your LINK and reposted it! Thanks!

[ChadGore]

Wait a second, he led a capitulation movement in my country while being an active member of our military ?

There is a serious 14th amendment issue here.

[judicial meanz]

Ok, now that we have the details, here is my take on the situation. Thanks for the clarification, Expat

In the USNR, active or inactive, he was still a Commissioned Officer until his discharge in 1978, and was subject to being recalled to active duty. The US Navy does not require a person to drill while on inactive status, but they do retain some oversight or the member.

Inactive reserve members have been called up to active duty and sent overseas to fight in wars. Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf Wars, were some of these wars. Ted Williams, the great baseball player, is a prime example of a guy called from the inactive reserves to the active reserves.

Kerry could have been recalled to active duty while in the inactive reserves.

Navy inactive reserves have no drill requirements, but do have the understanding that they must be "reachable" in a time of national emergency, and have contact information available to the USN. In practice, most of them dont, but the US Government can find them if it needs to by using tax information, etc to locate them.

[An.American.Expatriate]

He wasn't "active" at the time, but the 14th Ammendment issue remains as he had retained his commission until 1978.

[kabar]

Let Kerry's military service go, it's a non-issue for the media. He was in Vietnam, Bush wasn't, and that's all that matters in the service debate. It sucks, but that's the way it goes. Even Bush and his team realize this. The real angle of atack on Kerry will be his post-Nam activities and voting record where he has been anti-military, anti-US and a liar ever since.

I agree up to a point. We know that Kerry participated in antiwar demonstrations while still on active duty. There is also a question about his military status 1970-2, when Kerry was meeting in Paris with the NV and NLF and appearing with Jane Fonda at Valley Forge and the Winter Soldiers Investigation.

Bush shouldn't be seen to be involved in seeking answers about Kerry's service record, but the questions need to be raised, especially since Kerry has refused to release his service records.

[isthisnickcool]

Very odd.

No it's not. Keep in mind Teddy Kennedy. What has been pulling strings for Kerry for decades. There is a reason Ted Kennedy is doing what he is doing today. It looks to me like Kerry was somewhat a "sleeper cell" for Ted Kennedy. It's likely Kerry is just one of countless people Ted Kennedy has "supported" over the years. But in Kerry's case Kerry actually may have a chance to be President of the United States (shudder!).

[Just mythoughts]

"Let Kerry's military service go, it's a non-issue for the media. He was in Vietnam, Bush wasn't, and that's all that matters in the service debate. It sucks, but that's the way it goes. Even Bush and his team realize this."

JFKerry is the one who will not let it go. JFKerry filmed reenactments of his gun fights while over in Vietnam and he kept a journal, according the Brinkley who wrote a book based upon these items.

Now what kind of a person while in country gets a movie camera and films reenactments of his own gun fights and spends the rest of his life playing and replaying those movies on his Sony tv.

When JFKerry releases his military records, movies of reenactments and his medical records it will be let go.

[kabar]

Why does Kerry claim in his approved bio that he served in the USN active duty 1966-70 and USNR 1972-78? Why the gap? I resigned my regular commission and served in the inactive reserves for a few years, but there was no break in service. I don't profess to be an expert on the Reserves especially since I was on active duty 1965-72 and the rules may have changed, but Kerry's two year gap needs an explanation. It doesn't make sense.

[Turbo Pig]

It's a non-issue on all accounts, because the Republicans will not push it, and the media will run with the story. You'll get no traction with this story, and should not waste time. Especially considering the fact that Kerry has a long senatorial record that is free for the public to see, without the "help" of the media. The only way Kerry wins is conservative America lets him. Wasting time on things like this allows Kerry to deflect inspection on what can eventally cause him to tank.

Of course this is all my opinion, and I could be wrong.

[judicial meanz]

I think he "brushed up" his record.

He most certainly had to be in the USNR ( Inactive) to fulfill his officer commitment during that time period.


He still had his base 8 year service commitment required for Officers to complete, unless he was unfit medically for duty, in which case they would have had to medical board him.

[Turbo Pig]

he has violated Section 3 of the 14th Ammendment.

Technically, no. He was never charged and convicted for aiding the enemy, was he?. I agree 100% that he is guilty of the crime. Doesn't do any good, if he hasn't been prosecuted, though. Like I said in another reply. This doesn't have legs, because the Repub and the media won't give it any.

[judicial meanz]

Reference persons subject to the UCMJ:

Note: Hypothetically, Kerry went to Hanoi and made "peace negotiations" while under the authority of the UCMJ. See section (a)(1).

Second note: as you can see by the the rest of the paragraphs, Kerry has publicly stated he committed war crimes, engaged in peace marches while on active duty, etc, and it was enough to gain him NJP or Courts Martial, but it was never pursued.

I doubt anyone would pick it up now, but theoretically, he could be called back to face charges or investigation on these issues if someone really wanted to do so.
____________________________________________________________



ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER

(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:

(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.

(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.

(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.

(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.

(6) Members of the Fleet Reserve and Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.

(7) Persons in custody of the armed forces serving a sentence imposed by a court-martial.

(8) Members of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Public Health Service, and other organizations, when assigned to and serving with the armed forces.

(9) Prisoners of war in custody of the armed forces.

(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.

(11) Subject to any treaty or agreement which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons serving with, employed by, or accompanying the armed forces outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.

(12) Subject to any treaty or agreement which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons within an area leased by or otherwise reserved or acquired for use of the United States which is under the control of the Secretary concerned and which is outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.

(b) The voluntary enlistment of any person who has the capacity to understand the significance of enlisting in the armed forces shall be valid for purposes of jurisdiction under subsection (a) and change of status from civilian to member of the armed forces shall be effective upon the taking of the oath of enlistment.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person serving with an armed force who--

(1) Submitted voluntarily to military authority;

(2) met the mental competence and minimum age qualifications of sections 504 and 505 of this title at the time of voluntary submissions to military authority:

(3) received military pay or allowances; and

(4) performed military duties: is subject to this chapter until such person's active service has been terminated in accordance with law or regulations promulgated by the Secretary concerned.

(d)

(1) A member of a reserve component who is not on active duty and who is made the subject of proceedings under section 815 (article 15) or section 830 (article 30) with respect to an offense against this chapter may be ordered to active duty involuntary for the purpose of--

(A) investigation under section 832 of this title (article 32);

(B) trial by court-martial; or

(C) non judicial punishment under section 815 of this title (article 15).

(2) A member of a reserve component may not be ordered to active duty under paragraph (1) except with respect to an offense committed while the member was

(A) on active duty; or

(B) on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.

(3) Authority to order a member to active duty under paragraph (1) shall be exercised under regulations prescribed by the President.

(4) A member may be ordered to active duty under paragraph (1) only by a person empowered to convene general courts-martial in a regular component of the armed forces.

(5) A member ordered to active duty under paragraph (1), unless the order to active duty was approved by the Secretary concerned, may not--

(A) be sentenced to confinement; or

(B) be required to serve a punishment of any restriction on liberty during a period other than a period of inactive-duty training or active duty (other than active duty ordered under paragraph (1)).

[An.American.Expatriate]

There is nothing in the 14th Ammendment which states the the person needs to be convicted of giving aid and comfort!!

rather, it states that any "officer" of the United States that DID give aid and comfort (and Kerry by his own testimony DID!), is ineligable.

[mewzilla]

Boy, this would make a great episode of JAG. Paging Donald Bellisario....

[Bluntpoint]

"DID" is not an amorphous term.

Clinton was a "TRAITOR" but he is not a traitor in the eyes of the law until adjudge by a the appropriate authorities.

[judicial meanz]

Its an interesting analysis,and it has relevance, but the media wont allow it to go anywhere.

It tells me volumes about Sen Kerry, and his supposedly "Audie Murphy" calibre service.

If he had been enlisted, you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been serving time in a stockade somewhere for a few years, or at least had the joy of being sent to Captains Mast (or Admirals Mast for Officers)but as a member of some priveliged fringe of America, he skated.