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Kerry vows an early legal challenge to avoid repeat of 2000 recount
sf gate ^ | 8 March 2004 | MIKE GLOVER

Posted on 03/08/2004 5:04:49 PM PST by demlosers

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:46:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Kerry is determined not to lose Florida's 27 electoral votes in a swamp of recounts and recriminations this fall, vowing to mount an early legal challenge in any district that might repeat the problems that bedeviled Democratic supporters in 2000.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2004; kerry
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Kerry is planning to gore Floriduh.
1 posted on 03/08/2004 5:04:50 PM PST by demlosers
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To: demlosers
Why wait? Kerry should file his case now. Get it over with.
2 posted on 03/08/2004 5:06:36 PM PST by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: demlosers
If all good people get out and vote this time, Kerry won't even have that chance.
3 posted on 03/08/2004 5:06:40 PM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Proud member of the right wing extremist Neanderthals.)
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To: demlosers
"We're going to sue Florida to get the electoral votes BEFORE the damn election. We don't need those ancient dumbs**ts actually voting--they might get uppity about it."
4 posted on 03/08/2004 5:07:05 PM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Maj. Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: demlosers
Hilarious. Making the presumption that the GOP rigged the vote in Florida.
5 posted on 03/08/2004 5:07:11 PM PST by johniegrad
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To: demlosers
Five hundred people in Hollywood Florida doesn't seem like a lot.
6 posted on 03/08/2004 5:07:19 PM PST by gov_bean_ counter
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To: demlosers
Getting ready to block all military votes, just like last time.
7 posted on 03/08/2004 5:08:53 PM PST by Ron in Acreage
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To: demlosers
Kerry is in fact THREATENING to force another recount. Has anyone noticed this may be the most braggadocia man on the planet?
8 posted on 03/08/2004 5:09:36 PM PST by Williams
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To: demlosers
Considering Bush will beat him in every other state FL. won't matter that much any way.
9 posted on 03/08/2004 5:09:41 PM PST by GottaLuvAkitas1
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To: demlosers
They couldn't even beat Jeb. He won in a landslide.
10 posted on 03/08/2004 5:10:41 PM PST by Ron in Acreage
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To: demlosers
He's not going to have to worry about a recount it won,t be close.
11 posted on 03/08/2004 5:11:02 PM PST by Unicorn
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To: demlosers

12 posted on 03/08/2004 5:11:37 PM PST by South40 (My vote helped defeat cruz bustamante; did yours?)
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To: demlosers
I'm sure they are about to start the recount any day now, just to get the results in on time.

=8^)

13 posted on 03/08/2004 5:12:07 PM PST by Xphantasos
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To: demlosers
This time, conservative FL panhandle voters will continue voting EVEN AFTER Dan/Tom/Peter exit polls show that Kerry's the winner.
14 posted on 03/08/2004 5:12:22 PM PST by ServesURight (FReecerely Yours,)
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To: demlosers
Kerry is planning to gore Floriduh.

Excellent! Pre-emptive lawsuits. Send in the gowns.

15 posted on 03/08/2004 5:12:24 PM PST by rhombus
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To: Unicorn
Oh my. I am tired already. My eyeballs are hurting. I cannot bear another moment of this. How can we possibly live thru this election. Oh, I just had a cheery thought. do you all think this man just might be crazy? I mean, like really crazy? Like he could go right over that edge?
16 posted on 03/08/2004 5:12:42 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: demlosers
"Not only do we want a record level of turnout to vote, we want to guarantee that every vote is counted," the presumptive Democratic nominee told about 500 people at a town hall meeting Monday.

He forgot to mention that all the recounts carried on for more than a year after the 2000 election still showed Bush the winner ... even with all the holding up of the military vote, the proven 'fattening' of the voter ranks in West Palm Beach, the "democratization" of the chad counting going on in the 3 southern counties, etc. And Bush still won ... Just think how much of a margin W would have had if no one 'cheated'!!

17 posted on 03/08/2004 5:13:28 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: Williams
F john kerry is the Uber-Gore. Gore political ambitions on steroids.
18 posted on 03/08/2004 5:13:54 PM PST by Homer1
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To: cajungirl
Just to make it clear. Like hallucinating, delusional, babbling. I am thinking he is nutty as a fruitcake. The anonymous foreign leaders. The preemptive vote count. He is whackier than my crazy aunt or Ross perot's crazy aunt.
19 posted on 03/08/2004 5:14:12 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: RightWhale
Yup. He should get the Massachusetts SJC to give him the election before the November,
which is consistent with the wishes of Judege Marshall and her masters at the New York Times.
20 posted on 03/08/2004 5:15:02 PM PST by Diogenesis (If you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us)
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To: Williams
I've noticed, and just like every other A-hole like him I've ever known, I sit quietly and smile as they speed toward their demise at Mach.

Can't wait to see the bug-splat from this turd!
21 posted on 03/08/2004 5:15:18 PM PST by American_Centurion (Daisy-cutters trump a wiretap anytime - Nicole Gelinas)
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To: demlosers; Ron in Acreage
We'll be in the streets again like last time
22 posted on 03/08/2004 5:16:03 PM PST by blam
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To: demlosers
This man is completely despicable. How do we know he's a liar? his mouth is moving....He proclaims Bush a divider...Everything he says and does is aimed to drive a wedge between the left and right...typical liberal maneuver..

How he's going make his move for the middle voters is going to be quit interesting.

23 posted on 03/08/2004 5:16:04 PM PST by hope
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To: demlosers
I almost giggle with satisfaction when I think of how only a few months from now I get to watch some lefty anchor's face pale when he has to call Florida for Bush.
24 posted on 03/08/2004 5:17:01 PM PST by thoughtomator (Political Correctness is fascism)
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To: demlosers
"We're going to pre-check it, we're going to have the legal team in place. ... We're going to take injunctions where necessary ahead of time. We'll pre-challenge if necessary," the four-term Massachusetts senator said.

I can just hear it: "Oh, Mr. Kerry, I had a dream last night that I will cast the wrong ballot. I've been disenfranchised!"

25 posted on 03/08/2004 5:17:13 PM PST by Paul Atreides (Is it really so difficult to post the entire article?)
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To: demlosers
"Bush won Florida's 25 electoral votes by a 537-vote margin."

Proud to say - one of them was mine.

26 posted on 03/08/2004 5:18:12 PM PST by LADY J
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To: cajungirl
this man just might be crazy?

Nah, just a short attention span and hyperactivity.

27 posted on 03/08/2004 5:19:20 PM PST by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: rhombus
I think he's looking for his legal challenge. He's talking about places where people didn't get to vote last time. Yet the investigation sold nobody was disenfranchised.
28 posted on 03/08/2004 5:20:05 PM PST by Terry Mross
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To: demlosers
Does he know something already?
29 posted on 03/08/2004 5:20:44 PM PST by BlessedBeGod
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To: demlosers
Kerry couldn't wait to start emulating what everyone hated most about Al Gore.
30 posted on 03/08/2004 5:20:50 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: RightWhale
Why wait? Kerry should file his case now. Get it over with.

You've got his number because he'll do that if he can find a way:

"We're going to pre-check it, we're going to have the legal team in place. ... We're going to take injunctions where necessary ahead of time. We'll pre-challenge if necessary," the four-term Massachusetts senator said.

31 posted on 03/08/2004 5:22:07 PM PST by cyncooper ("Maybe they were hoping he'd lose the next Iraqi election")
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To: LADY J
one of them was mine.

Please allow me to extend my thanks to you.

32 posted on 03/08/2004 5:22:19 PM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: American_Centurion
You may be right. I like your imagery. This could be fun to watch. Many years ago our Governor in Louisiana, Earl Long, went totally psychotic in public. It was a hoot to watch. He traveled across country psychotic as a bedbug with a stripper, Blaze Starr. One of my fonder memories. He was committed to the state hospital while governor, called a meeting of the hospital board and fired the superintendant of the hospital and liberated himself. Maybe Kerry will go totally off,,wouldn't that be a pleasure to watch!!
33 posted on 03/08/2004 5:22:39 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: GottaLuvAkitas1
"Considering Bush will beat him in every other state"

Ahhhh, hummm, hmmmm. Sorry, we don't have a chance here in Pennsylvania with Gv. Rendell. He saw to it last election for Philadelphia to have a 107% voter turn out. Now that he is governor, it might be as high as 115%. Already rigged. He can thank the Teamsters and the NAACP for that.

34 posted on 03/08/2004 5:22:49 PM PST by AGreatPer (The election has just started. It is fun watching Rats try to swim.)
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To: cajungirl
Isn't sickening to think that we've got 8 more months of this!
35 posted on 03/08/2004 5:23:00 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: demlosers
Hell, why not let the dems. start voting now/ Let the East Coast vote in April, bitch, whine, challenge, sue, then move on to the Central Time Zone in May, etc. until the whole country has had a chance to moan and groan. Of course, Republicans would have one day to get their vote out. It's the fair and compassionate thing to do. ;^)
36 posted on 03/08/2004 5:24:37 PM PST by small voice in the wilderness (1)
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To: GottaLuvAkitas1
Bush can take Florida.
37 posted on 03/08/2004 5:24:56 PM PST by dalebert
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To: demlosers
"I don't think we ought to have any vote cast in America that cannot be traced and properly recounted," he said

What he really means is: "I don't think we ought to have any vote cast in America that my thugs cannot manipulate, tamper with, or rig".
38 posted on 03/08/2004 5:25:04 PM PST by EnquiringMind
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To: cyncooper
Don't you think that is over the top. That and the mysterious foreign leader support just both seem nutso to me. I think his judgement is very poor. But this is the man who gave that outrageous testimony in front of congress about his fellow soldiers.
39 posted on 03/08/2004 5:25:41 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: Poohbah
Maybe the state won't be declared a kerry victory by the Ratpress before their polls are closed. And maybe the Rats won't prevent voters from getting to the polls. And maybe the Rats controlling Florida precints will allow the soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq to have their votes counted this time. And maybe the Rats won't try to count votes for anybody-but-kerry as votes for kerry. And maybe the Ratcourt in Florida won't overide the will of the voters. I doubt it.


gitmo
40 posted on 03/08/2004 5:25:56 PM PST by gitmo (Thanks, Mel. I needed that.)
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To: demlosers
Damn,JfK,you don't have to get snippy about it.Hows about you starting work on a pre-concession speech?
41 posted on 03/08/2004 5:26:19 PM PST by John W
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To: AgThorn
Cheating! How dare you accuse the dems of that! But -- take a careful look at this article showing what dirty little secrets John Lott has discovered. This should be the lead story on every news broadcast, but don't hold your breath.

Let the Sunshine In The same old myths live on about Florida, Nov. 2000.

By John R. Lott Jr.

Headlines this weekend recited the old line "Dems accuse Bush of stealing the 2000 election." Former U.S. Representative Carrie Meek received a wildly enthusiastic response from delegates to the Florida Democratic convention with calls that "We should be ready for revenge!" Retired General Wesley Clark told delegates he fought for democracy and free elections in Vietnam and Europe only to see "the taking" of the presidency by Republicans in 2000. Senator John Edwards said, "We had more votes; we won!" Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts said: "None of us are going to forget." More vaguely, Senator Joe Lieberman claimed that Bush "stretched the truth" to get his way in 2000. Of course, Terry McAuliffe was beating the same old drum. They should all get over it.

The stolen election supposedly incorporated many wrongs, but foremost was discrimination against Democratic African-American voters: Faulty voting machines were said to have thrown out their votes at higher rates. Also included are claims that the voters' intent wasn't properly divined, that Republicans on the Supreme Court felt compelled to covertly snatch the election, and that African-Americans were intimidated into not voting or were erroneously placed on the ineligible list at higher rates than other racial groups.

These charges have been rebutted before, but with so much misinformation and people's short memories simply accepting the charges, many risk believing that they are true. There has also been new research — of which most people may not be aware — which helps replace myth with reality.

1. THE MYTH OF THE FLAWED VOTING MACHINES & DEMOCRATIC DISENFRANCHISEMENT

Suppose spoiled or non-voted ballots really did indicate disenfranchisement, rather than voter preferences. Then, according to the precinct-level vote data compiled by USA Today and other newspapers, the group most victimized in the Florida voting was African-American Republicans, and by a dramatic margin, too.

Earlier this year I published an article in the Journal of Legal Studies analyzing the USA Today data, and it shows that African-American Republicans who voted were 54 to 66 times more likely than the average African American to cast a non-voted ballot (either by not marking that race or voting for too many candidates). To put it another way: For every two additional black Republicans in the average precinct, there was one additional non-voted ballot. By comparison, it took an additional 125 African Americans (of any party affiliation) in the average precinct to produce the same result.

Some readers may be surprised that black Republicans even exist in Florida, but, in fact, there are 22,270 such registered voters — or about one for every 20 registered black Democrats. This is a large number when you consider that the election in the state was decided by fewer than 1,000 votes. Since these Republicans were more than 50 times more likely to suffer non-voted ballots than other African Americans, the reasonable conclusion is that George W. Bush was penalized more by the losses of African-American votes than Al Gore.

Democrats have also claimed that low-income voters suffered non-voted ballots disproportionately. Yet, the data decisively reject this conclusion. For example, the poorest voters, those in households making less than $15,000 a year, had non-voted ballots at less than one-fifteenth the rate of voters in families making over $500,000.

It is difficult to believe that wealthy people were more confused by the ballot than poor people. Perhaps the rich or black Republicans simply did not like the choices for president and so did not vote on that part of the ballot. Perhaps there was tampering, but it is difficult to see how it could have been carried out and covered up. We may never know, but, clearly, the figures show that income and race were only one-third as important in explaining non-voted ballots as the methods and machines used in voting. For example, setting up the names in a straight line appears to produce many fewer problems than listing names on different pages or in separate columns.

2. THE MYTH THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE INCORRECTLY PLACED ON THE CONVICTED-FELONS LIST AT A HIGHER RATE THAN OTHER GROUPS

The evidence on convicted felons comes from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission's Majority Report, which states: "The chance of being placed on this list [the exclusion list] in error is greater if the voter is African-American." The evidence they provide indicates that African-Americans had a greater share of successful appeals. However, since African-Americans also constituted an even greater share of the list to begin with, whites were actually the most likely to be erroneously on the list (a 9.9-percent error rate for whites versus only a 5.1-percent error rate for blacks). The rate for Hispanics (8.7 percent) is also higher than for blacks. The Commission's own table thus proves the opposite of what they claim. A greater percentage of whites and Hispanics who were placed on the disqualifying list were originally placed there in error.

In any case, this evidence has nothing to do with whether people were in the end improperly prevented from voting, and there are no data presented on that point. The Majority Report's evidence only examines those who successfully appealed and says nothing about how many of those who didn't appeal could have successfully done so.

3. THE MYTH THAT GORE WOULD HAVE WON IF RECOUNT HAD ONLY BEEN ALLOWED

There were two news consortiums conducting massive recounts of Florida's ballots. One group was headed by USA Today and the Miami Herald. The other one was headed by eight newsgroups including the Washington Post, New York Times, L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, the Associated Press, and CNN. Surprisingly, the two groups came to very similar conclusions. To quote from the USA Today group's findings (May 11, 2001) on different recounts:

Who would have won if Al Gore had gotten the manual counts he requested in four counties? Answer: George W. Bush. Who would have won if the U.S. Supreme Court had not stopped the hand recount of undervotes, which are ballots that registered no machine-readable vote for president? Answer: Bush, under three of four standards.

Who would have won if all disputed ballots — including those rejected by machines because they had more than one vote for president — had been recounted by hand? Answer: Bush, under the two most widely used standards; Gore, under the two least used.

Of course, Florida law provided no mechanism to ask for a statewide recount a la the last option, only county-by-county recounts. And of course neither Gore's campaign nor the Florida Supreme Court ever asked for such a recount.

4. DON'T FORGET THE EARLY MEDIA CALL

Florida polls were open until 8 P.M. on election night. The problem was that Florida's ten heavily Republican western-panhandle counties are on Central, not Eastern, time. When polls closed at 8 P.M. EST in most of the state, the western-panhandle polling places were still open for another hour. Yet, at 8 Eastern, all the networks (ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and NBC) incorrectly announced many times over the next hour that the polls were closed in the entire state. CBS national news made 18 direct statements that the polls had closed.

Polling conducted after the election indicates that the media had an impact on voter behavior, and that the perception of Democratic wins discouraged Republican voters. Democratic strategist Bob Beckel concluded Mr. Bush suffered a net loss of up to 8,000 votes in the panhandle after Florida was called early for Gore. Another survey of western-panhandle voters conducted by John McLaughlin & Associates, a Republican polling company, immediately after the election estimated that the early call cost Bush approximately 10,000 votes.

Using voting data for presidential elections from 1976 to 2000, my own own empirical estimates that attempted to control for a variety of factors affecting turnout imply that Bush received as many as 7,500 to 10,000 fewer votes than he would normally have expected. Little change appears to have occurred in the rate that non-Republicans voted.

Terry McAuliffe clearly stated his strategy "to use the anger and resentment that will come out of that 2000 election, put it in a positive way to energize the Democratic base." Democrats have used the notion that Bush is an illegitimate president to justify everything from their harsh campaign rhetoric to their filibusters against his judicial appointments.

More could be said about these myths, but most of them hardly merit discussion. Unfortunately, as Terry McAuliffe implies, these falsehoods will continue to be trumpeted frequently over the next year; thankfully, a few facts can help dispel them.

— John Lott is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. His data on the Florida 2000 election may be found at http://www.johnrlott.com/.

42 posted on 03/08/2004 5:26:50 PM PST by WL-law
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To: cajungirl
The movie about him "Blaze" was a real hoot.

How close was it historically to the real deal?
43 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:00 PM PST by American_Centurion (Daisy-cutters trump a wiretap anytime - Nicole Gelinas)
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To: demlosers
Let's not forget that now we have an administration that actually WANTS to count the military absentee ballots, and will do everything possible to get them in in time. Kerry's anti-military party has no problem disenfranchising those patriots fighting to defend our country.

Second, the Gov's wise to the 'Rats extra punch machines, which probably voided 25,000 ballots by extra-punching Bush ballots en masse.

44 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:00 PM PST by paul in cape
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To: cajungirl
"Blaze Starr."

Oh my, haven't heard that name for years.

I remember the days, going to college in Pittsburgh, we would sneak out of class and go to the strip joint to watch her. She was wonderful. Did you know she actually didn't take it all off. She was a tease.

As a young man, she taught me more than I learnt in college.

45 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:02 PM PST by AGreatPer (The election has just started. It is fun watching Rats try to swim.)
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To: demlosers
"I don't think we ought to have any vote cast in America that cannot be traced and properly recounted..."

Traced back to the deceased, the convicts, the mentally ill, and illegal aliens, of which 100% vote Democratic? Kerry would lose in a landslide.
46 posted on 03/08/2004 5:27:28 PM PST by Solamente
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To: cajungirl
Don't you think that is over the top. That and the mysterious foreign leader support just both seem nutso to me. I think his judgement is very poor. But this is the man who gave that outrageous testimony in front of congress about his fellow soldiers.

Yes, it is over the top. And since you are pointing out he has a screw loose, don't forget he gave that testimony way back when using a fake accent. How nuts is that?

47 posted on 03/08/2004 5:28:59 PM PST by cyncooper ("Maybe they were hoping he'd lose the next Iraqi election")
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To: cajungirl
I thought about his viet nam testimony today. Imagine if it were true,,would you have said it. If there were that many soldier killers surely one would have snuffed you out for saying it. So it was obviously a lie. The man is somehow off, he is a little bit nutty. I am serious. There is something very odd at his center. Maybe a lack of a center. I am trying to piece this out but something about him is just not right. I sensed the same thing about Gore. Kerry is different, a bit more ethereal and vapor like,,he is sort of wafty.
48 posted on 03/08/2004 5:29:03 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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To: demlosers
This should simply be painted by the R party guys as an attempt by Kerry to intimidate R voters to stay away from the polls for fear of being whacked around by union thugs.

What the hell, it's what they would do.

49 posted on 03/08/2004 5:29:47 PM PST by jwalsh07 (We're bringing it on John but you can't handle the truth!)
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To: beaversmom
I don't think I can take it.
50 posted on 03/08/2004 5:29:59 PM PST by cajungirl (John Kerry has no botox and I have a bridge to sell you!)
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