Roman treasure found in pond dig: A man unearthed a priceless hoard of 20,000 Roman coins...

BBC News ^ | 3.11.04

[ambrose]

Roman treasure found in pond dig

A man unearthed a priceless hoard of 20,000 Roman coins as he dug a new fishpond in his back garden.

Experts say the money may date from the 4th Century and could be the biggest find of its kind in Britain.

The coins were crammed into a ceramic pot which broke up as it was dug out of the ground at Thornbury, Gloucestershire.

Now a coroner must decide if Ken Allen, who made the discovery, can keep the treasure.

Gail Boyle, from Bristol Museum, said: "This is the most amazing find of treasure to come out of this area for 30 years."

Mr Allen said: "It was a great surprise and at first I didn't realise what we had found.

"The pot was perfectly upright, I can't believe that this discovery was only 20ft from our house."

I can't believe that this discovery was only 20ft from our house.

Ken Allen Kurt Adams, the Finds Liaison Officer for Gloucestershire and Avon, said: "The coins identified so far can be attributed to Constantine the Great.

"The mint marks - a letter or symbol used to indicate the mint which produced the coin - suggest Trier, Germany and Constantinople as possible places of origin."

Treasure trove

The coins are in the care of Bristol City Museum & Art Gallery where they are being cleaned in a special laboratory.

They will then be taken to the British Museum in London for further examination.

A spokeswoman for Bristol Coroner's Court said that even though the coins were found on Mr Allen's property they could still be ruled as being property of the state.

"What determines this is if the coins were buried there intentionally or lost.

"It is possible somebody put them there and forgot about them, or never intended for them to be found.

"The coroner can rule whether they are the finder's treasure or not."

[farmfriend]

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[BikePacker]

Now a coroner must decide if Ken Allen, who made the discovery, can keep the treasure.

Ahhh... it was on HIS LAND.

[lelio]

Now a coroner must decide if Ken Allen, who made the discovery, can keep the treasure.

When the state brings in a coroner to decide if you can keep something, take that as a signal to let them have it.

[Bigg Red]

Wow!

[CindyDawg]

He should have never reported it.

[Bahbah]

This is an interesting one.

[11th Earl of Mar]

a coroner must decide if Ken Allen, who made the discovery, can keep the treasure

The coroner?

How about a second opinion from a pathologist?

[Henchman]

Seems these kinds of laws caused the rise of the US of A. Is there hope for Thornbury, Gloucestershire to rise? Ain't Socialism Grand, just ask a Democrat.

[BlessedByLiberty]

This list is one of the most exciting and informative out there. Thank you again.

[Gunslingr3]

A spokeswoman for Bristol Coroner's Court said that even though the coins were found on Mr Allen's property they could still be ruled as being property of the state.

Oh reeeeeallly

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

He should have never reported it.

Especially in socialist Britian.

Me? I would have sold them to a reputable coin dealer.

[CJ Wolf]

Pretty much the same type of crap they are trying to implement here in the US as well as anything found in the sea.

[mabelkitty]

I would have sold them on eBay.
One at a time.

[fuzzthatwuz]

"How about a second opinion from a pathologist?"

Probably in this case a proctologist opinion would be more appropriate!

[blam]

UK: While Digging In Backyard Man Unearths A Hoard Of 20,000 Roman Coins

[CindyDawg]

I think I would have had an auction somewhere neutral (off shore?) by invitation only to sell rare coins that had been in the family for a long time. (technically they were) Probably should stop by an island bank somewhere and make a deposit before going home too:')

[Polybius]

He should have never reported it

The Brits pay a good and fair price to the finder in "Treasure Trove" cases. Fourth Century Roman coins are the Ford Pintos of Roman numismatics. You can buy 'em by the hundreds on eBay. The historical value may be greater than the collector's value and the finder will benefit as a result.

[Burkeman1]

It amazes me why we even find coins at all from antiquity much less 20,000 of them in ne spot. What do you suppose the story behind this cache is? A wealthy merchant hiding money from the tax man but whose was killed or died suddenly without revealing this fortune? Or had inflation made the money worthless in the late 4th century in Britain? Was Rome's influence so weak that it's currency meant little and only those things that kept you alive mattered?

[farmfriend]

You are most welcome.

[GeronL]

"The pot was perfectly upright, I can't believe that this discovery was only 20ft from our house."

Alright!! I'm digging up an ancient pot!... ah its breaking... its full of coins!!!!!! "Honey!!"

[blam]

"He should have never reported it."

They actually have a pretty good law that rewards the finder of treasure.

Treasure Trove Law In England And Wales

[GeronL]

Its the UK not the US. Government is government and government looks out for government. They'll want at LEAST half.

[ibbryn]

There was a pretty interesting article posted on FreeRep in the last couple weeks on Britian's treasure troves. Since people have been living there so long, its not uncommon for someone to stumble across a stash that someone hid and couldn't retreive. Since the land may have changed hands a 100 times since the stash was hidden it is not always awarded to the property owner. In one case, an electrician working in an attic found an stash and told the homeowner. The homeowner told the treasure trove committee who ruled that the electrican was now the owner of the find, since it had been hidden before the current owner bought the home.

[GeronL]

It might be kind of hard to keep secret. I doubt ancient Roman coins are used in daily commerce anymore.

[tet68]

How about a second opinion from a pathologist?


He needs a proctologist, the state is going to ream him.

[GeronL]

The tax man had collected the local taxes and was transporting them by wagon to the coast where a ship would haul them to Rome. The locals didn't like this "outsourcing" and they blew up a nearby dam which flooded the area and buried the treasure.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah that might be a problem with reputable dealers.lol I saw this on some movie. Can't rember which one. It was art though. In the end he got caught:')

[CindyDawg]

Really? I was thinking of that guy in Arizona(?) that found the bag with 500000 and the cops took it away and claimed it for some drug enforcement fund.

[Polybius]

It amazes me why we even find coins at all from antiquity much less 20,000 of them in one spot. What do you suppose the story behind this cache is? A wealthy merchant hiding money from the tax man but whose was killed or died suddenly without revealing this fortune? Or had inflation made the money worthless in the late 4th century in Britain? Was Rome's influence so weak that it's currency meant little and only those things that kept you alive mattered?

Caches were the ancient world's version of a Swiss bank account.

When there was civil war or when the barbarians were coming, you gathered up your wealth, put it in a pot and buried it in your super-secret hiding place.......Maybe by the big oak tree that, 1,700 years later, is no longer there. After the bad guys went away, you dug it back up. If the bad guys got you, some fellow in the 21st Century ended up with your 401 K.

This cache was probably buried in the troubled times when Roman civilization in Britain was under attack by the barbarian invasions.

Caches are important in ancient numismatics because they give a time capsule snap shot of which coins circulated with other coins at a certain time. This is not as important in Roman Imperial coinage that can be dated by the Emperor but it has allowed the dating of Roman Republican coinage that had generic designs with no associated Imperial ruler.

[Burkeman1]

LOL. Makes sense. There were no banks back then. Bury the treasure and run away and hope you are able to return another day.

[VadeRetro]

The coroner? How about a second opinion from a pathologist?

Stand back! Let a Notary Public handle this!

[Martin Tell]

What do you suppose the story behind this cache is?

Just speculating (my guess is as good as any else's): Rich man/family buried the loot to hide it from the invading barbarians (Anglo-Saxons). Lots of families in the South did the same thing to hide their money from the thieving Yankees during the War of Northern Aggression. Some of it is still dug up occasionally

[CindyDawg]

Finders, keepers? :')

[blam]

They found similar 'stashes' at Thera/Akatori.

[America's Resolve]

Lets see.

The State gets to decide if the State or the individual gets to keep the stash. Hmmmm.

If the individual got to decide if the State or the individual got to keep the stash, it'd be a foregone conclusion.

But we all know that the State - ANY State - is emminently fair in these matters!

Yeah, this guys screwed!

[AndyJackson]

The original owner was a tax dodger. Not only does the state get the coins, but the finder owes the state 2,000 years in interest penalties and fees for past taxes. Maybe if he enters a plea bargain he can get out of serving jail time.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

A spokeswoman for Bristol Coroner's Court said that even though the coins were found on Mr Allen's property they could still be ruled as being property of the state.
"What determines this is if the coins were buried there intentionally or lost.
"It is possible somebody put them there and forgot about them, or never intended for them to be found.

This sounds like a job for the Florida Election Commission:

"We must determine the intent of the potter." (who died 1600 years ago before Britain was a country, like it matters)

[Burkeman1]

Makes sense. But wouldn't the Patrician or head of such a wealthy family make such caches known to a first born? I know I know- life was short back then and people most likely dropped dead from their first mild heart attack that we could easily save now when they were 45.

[Indrid Cold]

"Me? I would have sold them to a reputable coin dealer."

No such thing. I'd have sold them on eBay, saying that an old widow woman brought them in to me.

[Indrid Cold]

Maybe he thought Rome was gonna take his spear away, and he was saving up to skip the country.

[Burkeman1]

The Romans did confiscate arms when they first conquered the Celtic Brit tribes. But they stashed them and made them in secret anyway and had more than enough when Boudica rouse up.

[pax_et_bonum]

ping!

[CdMGuy]

Once again, the Crown screws another serf. He is going to need a coroner after he finds out they intend to take all of his newly found treasure.

Ain't too hard to figure out why all those royal citizens sailed off to the American colonies, and they just keep on coming. And in return, we send them Madonna and Gwyneth. Don't you just love it?

[infowarrior]

Was Rome's influence so weak that it's currency meant little and only those things that kept you alive mattered?

Bingo! 4th Century Britain was the time of the first of the invasions of the the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. Rome had withdrawn their legions from Britain, and the empire in rapid decline. Swords, more than coin reigned in Britain of the late 4th century, as it was the time of "Arthur", if such a personage ever existed (and he may well have been a composite of several strong leaders, slowing, but never succeeding in stemming the tide which turned Roman-Celtic Britain into Anglo-Saxon Britain)...

the infowarrior

[ruoflaw]

I read your link and I don't believe that the law is fair in many cases. I am glad that I am an American but of course that means that I will not find a treasure trove of Roman coins in my yard. :o)

[SunkenCiv]

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[<1/1,000,000th%]

A man unearthed a priceless hoard of 20,000 Roman coins as he dug a new fishpond in his back garden.

This happens all the time in Britain. These'll be selling for $2 a piece in a year.

[fella]

Even if "they" rule he can keep it, will "they" then tell him to pay the back taxes on it. Back taxes and penalties from the 4th century may be worth more to "them" than if "they" just took it.

[tarheelswamprat]

Even if "they" rule he can keep it, will "they" then tell him to pay the back taxes on it. Back taxes and penalties from the 4th century may be worth more to "them" than if "they" just took it.

Fair is only fair. He should be happy to pay the back taxes. Just make the check out to Emperor Constantine!