How Kerry Quit Veterans Group Amid Dark Plot

NY Sun ^ | 3/12/04 | THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB

[veronica]

When Talk Turned To Assassination He Exited, Vet Says

The anti-war group that John Kerry was the principal spokesman for debated and voted on a plot to assassinate politicians who supported the Vietnam War.

Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry,who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization.

Mr. Barnes was present as part of the Kansas City host chapter for the 1971 meeting and recounted the incident in a phone interview with The New York Sun this week.

In addition to Mr. Barnes’s recollection placing Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, another Vietnam veteran who attended the meeting, Terry Du-Bose, said that Mr. Kerry was there.

There are at least two other independent corroborations that the antiwar group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, of which Mr. Kerry was the most prominent national spokesman, considered assassinating American political leaders who favored the war.

Gerald Nicosia’s 2001 book “Home To War” reports that one of the key leaders of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Scott Camil,“proposed the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress,as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement.”The book reports on the Kansas City meeting at which Mr.Camil’s plan was debated and then voted down.

Mr. Nicosia’s book was widely praised by reviewers as varied as General Harold Moore, author of “We Were Soldiers”; Gloria Emerson, who had been a New YorkTimes reporter during the Vietnam War, and leftist Howard Zinn. Mr. Kerry himself stated in a blurb on the cover that the book “ties together the many threads of a difficult period.” Mr. Kerry hosted a party for the book in the Hart Senate Office Building that was televised on C-SPAN.

Another source is an October 20,1992, oral history interview of Scott Camil on file at the University of Florida Oral History Archive.In it,Mr.Camil speaks of his plan for an alternative to Mr. Kerry’s idea of symbolically throwing veterans’ medals over the fence onto the steps of the Capitol during the Dewey Canyon III demonstration in Washington in April of 1971.

“My plan was that, on the last day we would go into the [congressional] offices we would schedule the most hardcore hawks for last — and we would shoot them all,” Mr. Camil told the Oral History interviewer. “I was serious.”

In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history. He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign. Campaign aides to Mr. Kerry invited Mr.Camil to a meeting for the senator in Orlando last week, but they did not meet directly.

Mr. Camil was known to colleagues in the anti-war movement as “Scott the Assassin.” Mr. Camil told The New York Sun he got the name in Vietnam for “sneaking down to the Vietnamese villages at night and killing people.”

According to the Nicosia book and interviews with VVAW members who were involved, at theVietnamVeterans Against the War Kansas City leadership conference, Mr. Camil tried to put his plan into effect. He called together eight to 10 Marines to organize something he called “The Phoenix Project.” The original Phoenix Project during the Vietnam War was an attempt to destroy the Viet Cong leadership by assassination. Mr. Camil’s Phoenix Project planned to execute the Southern senatorial leadership that was financing the Vietnam War. Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower were his targets, according to Mr. Camil. They were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month.

After an attempt to parcel out the hit jobs required to kill the senators, Mr. Camil’s plan was presented to all the chapter coordinators present and the VVAW leadership. Mr. Nicosia’s book recounts, “What Camil sketched was so explosive that the coordinators feared lest government agents even hear of it. So they decamped to a church on the outskirts of town with the intention of debating the plan in complete privacy.When they got to the church, however, they found that the government was already on to them; their ‘debugging expert’ uncovered microphones hidden all over the place. An instantaneous decision was made to move again to Common Ground, a Mennonite hall used by homeless vets as a ‘crash pad.’”

“Camil was deadly serious, brilliant, and highly logical,” Mr. Nicosia told the Sun.

The plan was voted down. There’s a difference of opinion as to how narrow the margin was.

The claims of Mr. Kerry’s involvement in the assassination discussions in Kansas City have apparently not been previously reported.

The most recent book that focuses on Mr. Kerry’s relations with his fellow Vietnam veterans, Douglas Brinkley’s “Tour of Duty,” reports the events as follows: “In a November 10 letter housed at the VVAW papers in Madison,Wisconsin, Kerry quit, politely noting he had been proud to serve in the national organization. His reason was straightforward: ‘personality conflicts and differences in political philosophy.’ In two days,VVAW was meeting in Kansas City and he would be a noshow.”

But in a footnote, Mr. Brinkley acknowledges,“I could not locate Kerry’s November 10 VVAW resignation letter supposedly housed at the Wisconsin archives. The quote I used comes directly from Andrew E. Hunt’s essential ‘The Turning: A History of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (1999).”

When asked by the Sun who told him Mr. Kerry was “no-show” at Kansas City, Mr. Brinkley replied, “Senator Kerry.” Mr. Brinkley also stated that Mr. Kerry did not have a personal copy of the resignation letter either.

But in an interview with the Sun, the “essential” historian Mr. Brinkley relied on as his source, Andrew E. Hunt, said “I never stated that there was a letter of resignation, or even implied in my book that I saw one. I never could find one in the archives in Wisconsin. I don’t know how Brinkley got the idea that I had. I never could figure out when Kerry resigned.” When asked about Mr. Brinkley’s statement that Mr. Kerry didn’t have a copy of the resignation letter either, Mr. Hunt said, “I don’t know about that. I never could get an interview with Senator Kerry. But I never saw anyone who saves things the way Kerry does.”

Whether or not there was a letter of resignation dated November 10 is obviously important, since it predates the Kansas City assassination discussions by two days.

Mr. Camil said he did not recall whether Mr. Kerry was at the Kansas City meeting nor did he recall whether he had discussed his assassination plan with Mr. Kerry.

But Mr. Barnes, the head of the Missouri Veterans for Kerry, said, “I don’t think there was a letter of resignation. He just said he was resigning after the vote.”

Clearly there is considerable confusion about the time of Mr. Kerry’s resignation.According to Mr. Nicosia,“He resigned from the executive committee” after a spectacular argument with VVAW leader Al Hubbard at the July national leadership meeting in St Louis.

But on behalf of the John Kerry campaign, spokesman David Wade told the Sun yesterday that Mr. Kerry resigned from Vietnam Veterans Against the War “sometime in the summer of 1971 after the August meeting in St. Louis, which Kerry did not attend.”

Mr.Wade also said,“Kerry was not at the Kansas City meeting.”

Two-thirds of the American troops in Vietnam at the height of American commitment in 1969 had already been withdrawn in the “Vietnamization” policy in effect at the time of the VVAW Kansas City conference in November 1971. When asked recently by the Sun why the assassinations still seemed necessary, Mr. Camil replied: “The war was still going on. We had to stop it.”

[veronica]

FYI.

[JohnHuang2]

Thanks for the ping, friend. Bump!

[veronica]

Bump.

[veronica]

This is amazing. They actually entertained the notion of assassinating US politicians.

[nuconvert]

"politely noting he had been proud to serve in the national organization."

And why is he saying NOW that he was proud to serve in an organization that wanted to assassinate people?

[rightazrain]

If he was there, he should have reported this horrible plan to the authorities. That's why he denies his presence!

Bring on the lie detectors!

[steplock]

Typical of american left-wing radicals - start to get serious about convictions and they turn tail, run, and cower in a hole.

This shows that kerry was in this group strictly for "political purposes".

Does he have ANY convictions? Other than money, that is?

[pabianice]

I believe not reporting the planning of an assassination is a felony, John.

[Elle Bee]

gee ........can anyone say RICO?

.

[Fresh Wind]

I smell a preemptive action. Another one of Al-Qerry's closet skeletons is beginning to rattle its bones, perhaps?

[paguch]

Is this another situation where John Kerry knew of criminal intent and did nothing? He knew of war crimes and did not report them while in Viet Nam. He knew of an assasination plot.
If he did not report this to authorities, he agreed with the outcome, he just did not want to be involved with the implimentation.

This brings back the question. Did John Kerry commit war crimes as he testified?

[Just mythoughts]

Have you seen this story?

[sport]

kerry probably initiated the plot.

[eeriegeno]

Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry,who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization.

If this is true, orally resigning does not absolve Mr Kerry of being involved in a conspiracy to assassinate someone. And this guy has the audacity to call others 'crooks and liars.'

[nuconvert]

Maybe it's just me....but you'd think he might say he was ASHAMED to ever belong to an organization like that.
What a p$!&k.

[Imagine]

Saracasm On? Or Saracasm Off?

[Grampa Dave]

Fresh Wind has probably nailed this:

I smell a preemptive action. Another one of Al-Qerry's closet skeletons is beginning to rattle its bones, perhaps?

[Just mythoughts]

Did you hear JFKerry's response to the reporter who asked him about "Hubbard", "when was the last time you spoke to him"?

[Kakaze]

" Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower were his targets, according to Mr. Camil. They were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month. "

He not only knew of a plot to assassinate senators, but then went on to become a senator and stand arm & arm with at least Thurmond ( not sure about Tower & Stennis ). Can you imagine knowing of a assassination plot against a colleague and then serving with him as an equal.

How anyone could want a man so devoid of character bewilders me.

It used to surprise me but that was before clinton.

[veronica]

Fresh Wind has probably nailed this: I smell a preemptive action. Another one of Al-Qerry's closet skeletons is beginning to rattle its bones, perhaps?

Maybe. But the NY Sun is Conservative, so I tend not to think so. Less than 10 years after the Kennedy assassination these people were cooking this up. What kind of monsters would even consider such a diabolical thing?

[Judith Anne]

Wasn't it just a couple of weeks after Senator Heinz publicly made fun of Kerry that he died in a plane crash?

/tinfoil hat...

[veronica]

And Kerry has the nerve to call Bush & co. liars and crooks...

[Blood of Tyrants]

Chill, Ronnie, they voted against it in the end. </sarcasm>

[Grampa Dave]

I didn't know about Senator Heinz making fun of Kerry and then dying in the crash that killed him.

Hopefully some Freeper will fill us in.

Al Querry is more of a "Manchurian Kandidate" than Bill Clinton was.

If he becomes our president, we can kiss America Goodbye!

[Grampa Dave]

No! What was Al Querry's response re Al Hubbard?

[ravingnutter]

I smell a preemptive action. Another one of Al-Qerry's closet skeletons is beginning to rattle its bones, perhaps?

A talk radio pundit stated several weeks ago that there were things about Kerry's anti-war activities from his FBI files that would rise to the surface and expose him for the pond-scum he is.

[Judith Anne]

I think I remember reading it right here on the forum...maybe somebody can help us find it...

[HamiltonJay]

And I thought only right wing nutball Militia groups plotted military and assassinations of government officials!

Left = violence ... PERIOD.

[hchutch]

Monsters who figure the ends justify the means...

[Grampa Dave]

I know that Oliver North has been saying that we have just seen a small bit of the real Al Querry.

He is a truly scary individual.

I believe that he is the tip of the iceberg of those his age who hated America in the 1960/70's, came into power and still hate America. Their entire core has been based on that Hate America feeling, and with many, anything goes.

They still think that they are the heroes, and we are the traitors.

[veronica]

The Commie credo.

[Kakaze]

" I think I remember reading it right here on the forum...maybe somebody can help us find it... "

Heres one article on it from F.R. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1080806/posts

[ravingnutter]

Info post. For those that do not know who Hubbard is...mash here

[Just mythoughts]

It was the first question asked of JFKerry, after his "NO I won't repent for calling the President a liar and crook, press conference."

A reporter on the right side of my tv screen ask JFKerry about Hubbard, when was the last time he talked with him, and what did JFKerry have to say about Hubbard being a fake"?

JFKerry (NOT QUOTES) I heard it only once and it was live. I have not heard it replayed. SO this is my remembrance of what I saw unfold.

JFKerry was surprised by the question, however, maintained his cool with a resonpse that he had not talked to him since 1971, now that could have been the Congressional testimony or the "MEET the Press" event.

The question about Hubbard being a lie in that he was never in Vietnam was treated like "Well he did serve", and Well we were of course disappointed."

What was even more telling was the looks on the faces of his adoring Senators, what had been up until that question looks of smirking approval, and then there was a look of "FEAR".

[Coop]

[Just mythoughts]

Thanks, is he still with the living? What does he do today?

[Just mythoughts]

Rush had the story about Heinz reading the two different letters JFKerry wrote to one constituent regard the two sides he was taking in the Gulf War.

Heinz read both letters at a "Lincoln" (I think it was called) Republican event a short time later. 10 days later Heinz died, and 4 years later JFKerry married the Mrs. Heinz.

[Saundra Duffy]

That Kerry was even associated with such a group is an absolute OUTRAGE!!!

[atomicpossum]

If this pans out in front of the American public, suddenly Kerry's noble mission against war looks a helluva lot less noble, doesn't it?

[hchutch]

Pretty much says it all.

[doug from upland]

Thanks for posting this. FReeper Hon has been all over this story and I have been sending it to media sources. If this can be proven, then the RATS have a new nominee --- Hillary Clinton. We have to encourage the sources to get on talk radio. The reporter who can prove this may well win a Pulitzer. Of course, it may be posthumous.

We have to push this. Here is the beauty of this story. Even if it cannot be proven that he was there, the public is going to get an earful of how the man who wants to be commander in chief had led a group that was so radical it wanted to assassinate U.S. Senators. This could be the ticking time bomb that will destroy him.

[doug from upland]

But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry,who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization.
==============================================

How can he be reached???

[Just mythoughts]

I will check my White Pages.

[Grampa Dave]

[Sabertooth]

Another source is an October 20,1992, oral history interview of Scott Camil on file at the University of Florida Oral History Archive.In it,Mr.Camil speaks of his plan for an alternative to Mr. Kerry’s idea of symbolically throwing veterans’ medals over the fence onto the steps of the Capitol during the Dewey Canyon III demonstration in Washington in April of 1971.

According to the Nicosia book and interviews with VVAW members who were involved, at theVietnamVeterans Against the War Kansas City leadership conference, Mr. Camil tried to put his plan into effect. He called together eight to 10 Marines to organize something he called “The Phoenix Project.” The original Phoenix Project during the Vietnam War was an attempt to destroy the Viet Cong leadership by assassination.

I wonder if "alternative to Mr. Kerry’s idea" is Camill's wording?

Kerry's medal-tossing stunt as set for April, 1971, and the metting where the assassinations were discussed was later that December. However, "The Phoenix Project" was apparently an off-the-shelf plan from Vietnam, which given the tours of duty of these members of the VVAW, would predate Kerry's medal-tossing by a few years.

How long had "The Phoenix Project" been percolating in the VVAW hierarchy prior to it being broached at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City?

“My plan was that, on the last day we would go into the [congressional] offices we would schedule the most hardcore hawks for last — and we would shoot them all,” Mr. Camil told the Oral History interviewer. “I was serious.”

In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history. He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign. Campaign aides to Mr. Kerry invited Mr.Camil to a meeting for the senator in Orlando last week, but they did not meet directly.

Why would anyone in Kerry's campaign want anything at all to do with Camill, given that he openly boasts of conspiring to assassinate US Senators?

Mr. Camil was known to colleagues in the anti-war movement as “Scott the Assassin.” Mr. Camil told The New York Sun he got the name in Vietnam for “sneaking down to the Vietnamese villages at night and killing people.”

I wonder if this is a reference to some of the war crimes about which Kerry testified before Congress ?

[veronica]

I wish Matt Drudge would link to it from DrudgeReport.

[ravingnutter]

Thanks, is he still with the living? What does he do today?

I don't know...did a search,but did not come up with anything....I pinged backhoe, he has been compiling these stories into a list, maybe he has come across something.

[Grampa Dave]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1080094/posts

Kerry's Mentor: Black Panther And Phony Vietnam Vet, Al Hubbard
Various | Composite


Posted on 02/17/2004 3:48:56 PM PST by Hon

[Just mythoughts]

His whereabouts of today do seem a mystery and I do not remember reading he is deceased. Thanks