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The Paleoconservative Age: They hate W. – from the right. (A paleocon bestiary)
The New Haven Advocate ^ | July 3, 2003 | Joe Miksch

Posted on 03/13/2004 10:56:05 AM PST by quidnunc

At first blush, the phrase "anti-establishment conservative" doesn't make sense. Aren't the conservatives, especially considering the United States' current political climate, the establishment?

Well, yes. But there are conservatives who consider what passes for a conservative today — George W. Bush, for example — equivalent to the Red under one's bed in the 1950s. These folks are called paleoconservatives and, according to guys such as Jim Libinskas, hold a world-view that champions "an isolationist, 'America First' foreign policy, regional culture and politics versus big government and pop culture, protection for American workers (economic nationalism), a stoppage or large curtailment of immigration and a defense of America's European and Christian identity."

The paleoconservative heyday occurred in the early and mid-1990s with anti-immigration, isolationist, anti-free trade, ultranationalist Pat Buchanan making more than a marginal impact in his runs for the Republican presidential nomination. After fighting a losing ideological battle against neoconservatives — well-connected, well-funded, well-organized leftists in the paleoconservative's eyes — the paleos, to a large degree, went the way of the dinosaur.

Yet they persist. Though few in number, their Web sites are many. At the vanguard in the beginning and toeing the line in the present is Chronicles magazine and its web presence www.chroniclesmagazine.org. Long considered the movement's bible, the mag has dipped in circulation from 20,000 at its peak to less than 5,000.

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at newhavenadvocate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: antiwarright; bushhaters; paleocons
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A paleocon Who's Who on the Web.
1 posted on 03/13/2004 10:56:06 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc

Cute buzzword for "simply bitter & contrarian".
Loserdopians without the weed.
2 posted on 03/13/2004 11:00:25 AM PST by VaBthang4 (-He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps-)
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To: VaBthang4
They don't like Bush's policies in the Middle East. Period. If the Jewish state benefits in any way, folks like Buchanan start sounding like Leftists.
3 posted on 03/13/2004 11:06:30 AM PST by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: quidnunc
More sewing of division amongst conservatives by the press and so many eat it up here.

Do I believe in stopping illegal immigration? Yes. Do I believe in an America First foreign policy? Yes. Do I believe in regional culture and politics (Federalism)? Yes. Am I against big government? Yes. Do I believe in defense of America's European and Christian identity? Yes.

Am I a "paleo" as defined by the press? No. Because I believe in free trade (as long as its fair). I believe in supporting Israel 100%. I believe in supporting those who support us like Spain and Poland and Tony Blair's UK. I believe in the space program and I believe in not abandoning the US role in the world. I think that we need to rethink the war on drugs.

You "paleos" out there, I agree with you on many, many, things and will support you on those. You "neos" out there, I agree with you on many, many, things and will support you on those.

The press would like these divisions to fester. We should be cooperating where we can regardless of what sub-class of conservative we call ourselves.

Those of you here on either side who are saying bitter words to other conservatives are not helping conservatism much.
4 posted on 03/13/2004 11:15:20 AM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: Arkinsaw
Good post, Ark.
5 posted on 03/13/2004 11:18:34 AM PST by jaime1959
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To: quidnunc
The paleoconservative heyday occurred in the early and mid-1990s with anti-immigration, isolationist, anti-free trade, ultranationalist Pat Buchanan making more than a marginal impact in his runs for the Republican presidential nomination.

It's sad when people will post an outright lie...And if part of this article is a lie, one could assume the entire article is a lie as well...

Buchanan is not an Isolationist...That moniker was given him by the politicos...Buchanan is a Protectionist...That can mean a lot of things to a lot of people...To Buchanan and a lot of us, Protectionism = Fair Trade...He and we have established that a long time ago...

6 posted on 03/13/2004 11:28:49 AM PST by Iscool
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To: quidnunc
For the past couple of weeks, I've also gotten a real bird's eye view of who the NEOcons hate.

I also remember the NEOcons supporting McVain--so this "Bush hater" invective is supect.

Maybe we need some Cons-ervatives who are neither neo or paleo. I'm pretty sick of both trying to claim my attn and votes. C'mon Ann, invent a new name. Let's lose the neocon girly-boys and the paleo neandertals--you're the wordsmithette.

7 posted on 03/13/2004 11:33:12 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: quidnunc
If they are so few in number why bother with them.
8 posted on 03/13/2004 11:35:27 AM PST by junta
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To: quidnunc; Burkeman1
This is short, superficial, trivial and erroneous (Lubinskas's name is misspelled, and he has his own racialist connections that make him questionable as a critic or observer).

What's angered, puzzled or discouraged some conservatives is that President Bush's policies seem in some important ways to mirror those of Kennedy and Johnson in the 1960s. There's the same passion for remaking the world, a similar emphasis on removing barriers to the flow of people, goods, and jobs, and the same indifference to big government or even a positive liking for new government programs. If Bush were strongly committed either to decreasing the size of government or to opposing globalizing economic trends or to reducing overseas commitments he'd face less disagreement. Trying to ride three horses (Nixonian big government, free trade and mass immigration, and an ambitious interventionist foreign policy) it's natural that President Bush alienates some who would otherwise have supported him.

One doesn't have to be an isolationist or racist or nationalist or protectionist or a supporter of Buchanan or Rockwell to be unenthusiastic about the current administration or critical of its policies. When political elites are silent about things that trouble average voters, like immigration, affirmative action, job loss, or foreign adventures, it's natural that some publicists step in to speak for "orphaned" voters and present themselves as a "counter-elite." Such opinionists aren't always the most trustworthy or reputable observers of the political scene, but that doesn't mean that the underlying concerns of the public or their disillusionment with most conventional politicians is in some way illegitimate or reprehensible.

What you may see isn't so much paleoconservatism or "hatred" of Bush, as disenchantment and apathy. Older conservative "narratives" and principles have been dropped by the administration, and some voters will go with them. It's possible that for every person who rallies to Rockwell or Chronicles there may be two or three who just lose interest in politics. I suppose President Bush will pick up some new voters due to foreign policy concerns, but he's done much to alienate some of the "Middle American Conservatives" who supported Reagan and (with reservations and misgivings) Nixon.

When a candidate campaigns for a "more modest" foreign policy, and then procedes (well before 911) to make war and regime change in the Middle East a priority, why be surprised that some on the right dissent? The situation is similar with other policy areas that were long regarded as "conservative": keeping illegal immigration under control, building a strong national economy, and reducing deficit. Changes in these principles may have been necessary, but argument about such things is also natural, unavoidable, and necessary. "Paleoconservativism" may not be the best response, but it's a good thing that such changes are discussed and argued about, rather than imposed from the top down without discussion and dissent.

9 posted on 03/13/2004 11:42:16 AM PST by x
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To: junta
If they are so few in number why bother with them.

The neos seem to attack anybody that questions their dragging the party to the left and all the big government that entails. Fine, there are other parties that still favor limited government, if the paleo/libertarian factions aren't welcome we'll take our votes and donations elsewhere.

10 posted on 03/13/2004 11:42:59 AM PST by steve50 (“Let me . . . warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party.)
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To: x
Bumping your thoughtful post.
11 posted on 03/13/2004 11:56:10 AM PST by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: SunStar
you are exactly right !!!!!!!! buchanan and his followers are close to ralph nader than to bush ..ha ha...these black helicpter loons are always good for a laff.
12 posted on 03/13/2004 12:00:40 PM PST by rrrod
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To: SunStar
Yep...they'll never say it and nobody here seems to keen on bringing it up...
But guys like Buchanon are indeed anti-Israel...the reason seems obvious to me. You see the Liberal networks scooping these types up for their staff. CNN & MSNBC have Buchanons on their payroll...they roll'em out on que whenever there is an opportunity to exploit their lack of character or outdated perspectives.

Anyway...

The contrarians within the Conservative Beltway coterie would be all for GW had he hired a one of them for anything...but the established Conservatives that GW left out of the loop simply broke bitter....naturally those predisposed to their contrarianism [Loserdopians] gravited to them.
They remind me of Nixon...and Liberals in general...if they are in power, then all is well...but if not, they'll rail to high heaven something, anything is wrong with anyone in power, regardless of stripe.

They are self-absorbed...and as a matter of progression, cowards.
13 posted on 03/13/2004 12:04:54 PM PST by VaBthang4 (-He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps-)
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To: quidnunc
"the paleos, to a large degree, went the way of the dinosaur."

-----

Oh, we're still out here. The neocon rulers of the RINO party would like to think we went the way of the dinosaur, but the fact that Bush I only served one term (and the fact that Bush II is only going to serve one term) proves that the Buchanan brigades are still a force.

Someday, the rockafeller republicans will realize that they are unelectable without us. Unfortunately, that day probably isn't today.
14 posted on 03/13/2004 12:06:50 PM PST by applemac_g4
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To: applemac_g4
Oh, we're still out here. The neocon rulers of the RINO party would like to think we went the way of the dinosaur, but the fact that Bush I only served one term (and the fact that Bush II is only going to serve one term) proves that the Buchanan brigades are still a force...Someday, the rockafeller republicans will realize that they are unelectable without us. Unfortunately, that day probably isn't today.

Are you voting for Kerry, because he better represents your views, or just staying home?

15 posted on 03/13/2004 12:10:06 PM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: steve50
They also believe in the "end of history" baloney utopianism and hence they think liberalism is the human destiny that the masses will come to accept and be OBEDIENT towards. They will become much crueler when the media propaganda can no longer pacify larger and larger segments of the population who see the issues we are concerned about as issues to be addressed. The new conservatives will align themselves very closely with their friends on the left in the coming witch hunts when a Democrat takes the presidential office. I still remember when Jonah Goldberg of National Review wrote an article about how scared he was of white men of middle America when he made his own cross country journey by car.
16 posted on 03/13/2004 12:11:12 PM PST by junta
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To: junta
If they are so few in number why bother with them.

Cuz it's fun?

17 posted on 03/13/2004 12:12:20 PM PST by edsheppa
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To: VaBthang4
There are the .05% third party fringees ~ always good for a laugh> :)

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, Paleoconservatives, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

18 posted on 03/13/2004 12:13:21 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: SJackson
exactly right !!!! ive heard this gang mutter that the holcaust never happened..they are beneath contempt! i could go on and on about these loons but we have more important battles
19 posted on 03/13/2004 12:16:23 PM PST by rrrod
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To: VaBthang4
Sooo, neocon or paleocon?

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a40bb29017b.htm http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a40bb29017b.htm

Best regards,

20 posted on 03/13/2004 12:19:39 PM PST by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: edsheppa
I have nothing against fun. I'll even join in with "fun." The new conservatives from what I gather are as Coulter describes them, "girly men."
21 posted on 03/13/2004 12:25:59 PM PST by junta
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To: Arkinsaw
paleocon neocon liberal
stop illegal immigration yes no no
America First foreign policy yes no no
regional politics yes no no
against big government yes no no
defense America's European, Christian identity yes no no
fair trade yes no yes
support Israel yes yes no
Protect American Jobs yes no yes
Conservative yes no no
Liberal no yes yes

22 posted on 03/13/2004 12:33:39 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Iscool
To Buchanan and a lot of us, Protectionism = Fair Trade...He and we have established that a long time ago...

Lying and intentional misrepresentations are all the Neo-Cons have left to support their failing ideology of Open Borders, One-Way Industry/Job Destroying 3rd World Trade Deals and Global Welfare.

Now that their Rats Nest of conflicting policy goals is collapsing, as the U.S. Budget and Trade Deficits are hemorrhaging record Red Ink, the Cons are in a panic. Their day of reckoning is quickly approaching.

23 posted on 03/13/2004 12:47:43 PM PST by WRhine
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To: jpsb
You should keep going with those until you are the only conservative.
24 posted on 03/13/2004 12:51:15 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: blackie
Do you think lifelong Republicans who are against pandering to illegal aliens and who support cutting out-of-control federal spending are part of the "fringe element?"
25 posted on 03/13/2004 12:57:32 PM PST by MissouriForBush (Insert "Was" Because of Disastrous Illegal Immigration Non-Plan)
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To: WRhine
Now that their Rats Nest of conflicting policy goals is collapsing, as the U.S. Budget and Trade Deficits are hemorrhaging record Red Ink, the Cons are in a panic. Their day of reckoning is quickly approaching.

Yup, GWB is in a panic, the day of reckoning is on it's way.

Ring up another vote for Kerry.

26 posted on 03/13/2004 12:57:49 PM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: Arkinsaw
I don't know why I brother with you people.
27 posted on 03/13/2004 12:58:14 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: rrrod
exactly right !!!! ive heard this gang mutter that the holcaust never happened..they are beneath contempt! i could go on and on about these loons but we have more important battles

This gang mutters and that's about it.

28 posted on 03/13/2004 12:59:04 PM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: PaleoCons
Don't stay home, vote CONSTITUTION PARTY.
Let the chips fall where they may.
Look how the neocons and moderates talk about you. Remember this come election eve, when they're whining for support...
29 posted on 03/13/2004 12:59:48 PM PST by GhostofWCooper
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To: quidnunc
neoconservatives = Money First
30 posted on 03/13/2004 1:00:49 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: jpsb
paleocon neocon liberal
support
Israel
yes yes no

LOL!

31 posted on 03/13/2004 1:04:22 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: AmishDude
I'm sure that's an innocent keyboard mistake.
32 posted on 03/13/2004 1:05:57 PM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: AmishDude; jpsb
Why should we support Israel?

33 posted on 03/13/2004 1:07:42 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: GhostofWCooper
Don't stay home, vote CONSTITUTION PARTY.

Vice President Joseph Sobran. Awesome idea.

Vote Constitution Party, stay home, who cares.

34 posted on 03/13/2004 1:07:49 PM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: applemac_g4
but the fact that Bush I only served one term (and the fact that Bush II is only going to serve one term) proves that the Buchanan brigades are still a force.

And you're proud of that? (Since when is a "fact" something that hasn't occurred?)

35 posted on 03/13/2004 1:09:16 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Lashing out" at Democrats since 1990.)
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To: Mamzelle
I also remember the NEOcons supporting McVain--so this "Bush hater" invective is supect.

It seems that the term neocon violates the law of conservation of mass, in that it manages to cover huge swaths of people and tiny enclaves of intellectuals at the same time.

36 posted on 03/13/2004 1:09:38 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: SJackson
That's correct.
37 posted on 03/13/2004 1:10:26 PM PST by GhostofWCooper
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To: Age of Reason
Why should we support Israel?

You're missing his point.

38 posted on 03/13/2004 1:10:26 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Lashing out" at Democrats since 1990.)
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To: Age of Reason; jpsb
Why should we support Israel?

And thank you very much for making my point.

39 posted on 03/13/2004 1:10:43 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
I think I'm missing yours, too.

Please explain.
40 posted on 03/13/2004 1:11:30 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: AmishDude
I am not interested in your point.

I would like to know why we should support Israel.
41 posted on 03/13/2004 1:12:29 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
You're missing his point.

That's been happening a lot to me lately. Check all the way down the thread, especially starting here.

42 posted on 03/13/2004 1:15:09 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: AmishDude
The best friend Israel has in this world is Christain America, I don't know where this idea that paleocons do not support Israel came from but it is not correct. Pat B IS NOT A Paleocon!
43 posted on 03/13/2004 1:15:13 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Age of Reason
I would like to know why we should support Israel.

This has been debated ad nauseum.


Show 'em my motto!

44 posted on 03/13/2004 1:15:54 PM PST by rdb3 (The Servant of Jehovah is the Christ of Calvary and of the empty tomb. † <><)
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To: jpsb
I don't know why I brother with you people.

Don't try on my account.
45 posted on 03/13/2004 1:16:09 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: jpsb
Pat B IS NOT A Paleocon!

Wow! They could hold their conventions in a phone booth then.

46 posted on 03/13/2004 1:16:58 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: quidnunc
You find the best stuff quid...:)
47 posted on 03/13/2004 1:17:05 PM PST by veronica ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people." GW Bush 1-20-04)
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To: veronica; quidnunc
You find the best stuff quid...:)

Well, half of it, anyway.

48 posted on 03/13/2004 1:18:43 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Why should we support Israel?...You're missing his point.

More likely he's making one.

We have a strong ally in the region Egypt to whom we supply several billion a year in military aid, to attack the unnamed little country to their NorthEast. That's from their training manuals.

And we have our dear friends, the Saudis.

BTW, both nations produce excellent pilots, they can his a skyscraper with their eyes closes.

Then we go and provide aid to a little country to Egypt's northeast, undoing the fine thing we're doing for Egypt, the Saudis, et al, our pals.

At least I think that's the point that's being made.

Soon to arrive, the post that says I didn't mean it, I don't just oppose aid to Israel, I oppose all foreign aid, I just forgot to say it.

49 posted on 03/13/2004 1:18:47 PM PST by SJackson (The Passion: Where were all the palestinians?)
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To: AmishDude
Yup yall big government socailists seem to have won the hearts and minds of the people, congrads.
50 posted on 03/13/2004 1:21:39 PM PST by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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