Men, Empathy, and Autism (Long Read)

Chronicle of Higher Education ^ | From the issue dated March 5, 2004 | DAVID COHEN

[shrinkermd]

Almost a century ago James developed the dualism of "tender-minded (basically compassionate) and tough-minded (basically results oriented). This proved to easily factored out of most personality tests and today is found in the 16 PF Personality Test.

Seemingly, we re-discover things all the time. I would hope Baron-Cohen and Pinker could both give some credit where credit is due. This is one danger of claims that sexual differences not only exist but are operant in autism. Tough vs Tender minded has a large literature with considerable empirical support. Ignoring what has been done seems to be both dishonest and ignorant.

The other danger I see, is to replicate the problem that Bruno Bettleheim caused when he theorized that autistic children had been raised by cold mothers --eventually called "schizophrenogenic mothers." This proved false, but caused unbelievable pain in families with an autistic child. Raising false hopes is bad enough but sometimes we also falsely blame the innocent in so doing.

Caution would seem to be the watchword. It is nice the psychologists have re-discovered something from a 100 years ago and also re-discovered women and men are different, but extrapolating from this to an etiology for autism seems far fetched to me.

[68skylark]

Bump for later read -- this looks very interesting.

Some people have claimed men and women are basically the same, except for the effects of environmental conditioning. It's one of those ideas that's so stupid, only a liberal "intellectual" could believe it.

Now that the idea has finally fallen away, it may open new doors for productive research.

[tiamat]

It's interesting, and THANK you for posting it.

I'm not sure I buy it. My daughter Caitlin is mildly autistic and is highly funtioning. While she shares many common autistic traits, ( repetetive behavior, social and language problems, no imitative play, emotional delay) she is one of the most compassionate people you will ever meet.

While she is often CLUELESS socially around peers, she is tender and kind to anyone or anything she sees hurting or sad, and she will go to huge lengths to try and help or comfort. She has a gentle touch with animals, and can often relate to THEM better than she does to people.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

These are going to be very hot topics over the next few decades, given the rapidly increasing ability to tease out the genetic and developmental basis that seems to underlie much (perhaps the majority) of the expression of "personality traits".

One thing I’d note is that this society (like most human societies) tend to *very* highly reward the extreme outliers along many continuums which clearly have a strong generic and developmental component, for examples professional athletes and classical musicians.

[nuconvert]

"Based on their study of thousands of samples of amniotic fluid, Mr. Baron-Cohen and his colleagues at the autism center have documented that children who experienced high-prenatal testosterone levels make less eye contact as toddlers and have lower communication skills at age 4, though he admits the evidence for any relationship between fetal testosterone and autism has yet to be established."

?? Hmmmm.............so he's just throwing this out there?

[shrinkermd]

According to the author: "Baby girls, on the other hand, follow a different, parallel path. They appear to respond to distress in other people more readily than do boys. They will make eye contact with others more readily. The pattern continues through life, although at differing levels with individuals. These differences don't represent "better" or "worse" values. Human males and females are overall equally intelligent. That intelligence is expressed in different ways. More to the point, men and women have both E and S traits, individually manifest over a wide spectrum. Extremes are few, but he notes extreme Es are more socially comfortable and acceptable than the autistic extreme S personalities."

When he measures testosterone it is possible he is finding another difference between men and women.

[KarlInOhio]

and a propensity for repetitive, frequently obsessional behavior,

Does hitting refresh repeatedly when on the FreeRepublic latest threads page count?

[conservative cat]

I'm not sure I buy it. My daughter Caitlin is mildly autistic and is highly funtioning. While she shares many common autistic traits, ( repetetive behavior, social and language problems, no imitative play, emotional delay) she is one of the most compassionate people you will ever meet.

My son is also autistic and shares those characteristics. He may be clueless about social interactions, but he is very compassionate, too.

[BfloGuy]

?? Hmmmm.............so he's just throwing this out there?

And why shouldn't he? He's not labeling it as a proven fact, merely discussing an observation.

It may spur someone else to do further research and either prove it or disprove it.

[longtermmemmory]

Isn't testosterone poisoning a "marthaburk" feminst studies argument? All testosterone is eeeevil.

I bet they will also rediscover phrenology. (bump on head science)

[King Prout]

in this usage, compassion and empathy are not equivalent.

case in point: I am a very compassionate man. I am also completely clueless when it comes to social interactions dependant upon interpreting the other party's emotional state.

hrmn...
my viva-voce verbal skills are awful.
my systems analysis skills are excellent.
I loathe telephones.
I hyperfocus on tasks.
hrmn...

The author of the book might consider me autistic.
*shrugging*

[tiamat]

I don't think so!

Just one of those poor people lke me who mispent their youth reading science fiction and playing RPGs!


Geeks of the world, UNITE!

LOL!

[tiamat]

One of the things you can say about autistic kids is that they are ALL different.

I have yet to meet one that is a "typical" autistic.

Tell you what: a lot of them are very bright, too. The notion that most show "some retardation" is bunk. Lots of autistic kids are smarter than average, and some of them are brilliant.

[merry10]

bump to read later

[merry10]

Interesting read

[SauronOfMordor]

Tell you what: a lot of them are very bright, too. The notion that most show "some retardation" is bunk. Lots of autistic kids are smarter than average, and some of them are brilliant.

The difference between retardation and brilliance may just be the degree to which the subject is interested in the subjects that the tester thinks are important

[68skylark]

You played with rocket propelled grenades while growing up? Must have been a tough neighborhood.

[68skylark]

Good one -- it's good to know I'm not the only one who does that!

[68skylark]

Although the psychologist had already drawn many of its conclusions as long ago as the late 1990s, he sat on them until now, he says, because for a long time the American cultural climate, in particular, did not seem quite ready for a gender-based theory of autism.

This makes me wonder how many other scientists are supressing their research results because they're worried about the fallout from PC libs.

[68skylark]

Are any of you familiar with the book "You Just Don't Understand" by Deborah Tannen? To me, I think that's the single best book I've ever read about personalities, and male-female differences. I'm just wondering if anyone else has a reaction to it.