Men, Empathy, and Autism (Long Read)

Chronicle of Higher Education ^ | From the issue dated March 5, 2004 | DAVID COHEN

[tiamat]

68skylark wrote:

You played with rocket propelled grenades while growing up? Must have been a tough neighborhood.

---

LOL!

You gotta know it, Baby, I was born in Detroit and grew up two blocks off of Woodward Avenue! Sex, drugs, rock n roll, you tell me what you want, I'll give you what you need!

No really

RPGs is "Role Playing Games" . Played with paper, pencil, dice, and sometimes, little miniature lead figures.

"Dungeons and Dragons" is an RPG.

And Prout here and I share a dirty little secret .

[King Prout]

And Prout here and I share a dirty little secret.

*looking in trousers...*

as to RPGs in the halcyon days of my misspent youth... I played with both kinds, actually... though i suppose the type that went "whoooooshBOOM!" might be better termed a LARP

[tiamat]

SauronOfMordor wrote:



The difference between retardation and brilliance may just be the degree to which the subject is interested in the subjects that the tester thinks are important

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I've woked with Downe's Syndrome kids. Most of whom were cheerful, friendly and very eager to please. Bend over backwards to accomplish a task and were VERY interested. they want to do it, because *YOU* want them to do it. Despite that, often just could not manage.

I've also worked with kids in the "gifted" range. Kids whom I know to be math whizzes, reading several grades above their peers, maybe musical and have a couple of languages on them, and just could care LESS about doing school-work. Bored out of their SKULLS.

[Trickyguy]

Some parents of autists have charged that mercury-containing vaccines caused their children's disorder.

This is the reason for the skyrocketing increase in autism. Babies whose system cannot excrete the mercury normally are at high risk of autism. Why any "doctor" would inject mercury, a deadly neurotoxin, into an infant, is beyond me.

[68skylark]

Okay -- I knew I should recognize RPG from something other than a military context. I myself have some dungeons & dragons experience in my misspent youth.

[tiamat]

I figured you were military. LOL!

Bunch of the guys I played with were, too.

Must be a while since you've played, huh?

;-)

[tiamat]

Hmmmm.... my husband likes to blow things up, too.

We used to refer to him and his buddy as "Gomez and Uncle Fester".

[cupcakes]

My 4 yr old son can be this way as well. If you even pretend cry, he comes and gives you a kiss.

[King Prout]

"dat blow'd up REAL good, Skeeter!"
"aww, t'weren't nuthin'. Hey y'all, wahwch'IS!"

[cupcakes]

Agree tiamat--you get my son in the right mood and you can find out just how many words he knows, but he will not use any of them in expressive language and still screams and uses body language to assert himself. Many of these children are very bright and probably have access in their heads to just as many words as their "normal" counterparts, but they just can't bridge that gap to expressive communication.

[tiamat]

I feel for you.

Caitlin used to scream. Made for WONDERFUL gettogethers with the in-laws, let me tell you.

And people will say "discipline problem" or "it's the mother's fault".

I tell people to think of Caitlin as an "English as a Second Language " person, because it really Is a language problem.

It helps.

[tiamat]

King Prout wrote:

"dat blow'd up REAL good, Skeeter!"
"aww, t'weren't nuthin'. Hey y'all, wahwch'IS!"

---

LOL!

I lived in THAT neighborhood,too!

The week of Fourth of July is very LOUD in Ypsilanti, aka "Ypsitucky".

Usually there was a "Hold muh beer", in there somewhere as well.

[cupcakes]

Thanks for the info. That seems so much like my son. He even has to think a moment on what you say before he reacts--it reminds me so much of someone who knew English as a second language and had to process the English in their native tongue in their heads before they could understand it.
My son is only 4, but you can tell him to open the curtains and even though he's done it and heard it a thousand times, there will be a pause before he does it.

I've also realized he is a strong visual learner. It is how he learned to open the curtains. He could know every word, but unless you show him once or twice the action with the words, he won't get it.
Thanks for the thoughts. I just hope it gets better and I am praying that the son I am expecting in a couple of months does not have to deal with the same issues.

[68skylark]

Must be a while since you've played, huh?

It's been awhile since I've done D&D -- though I may still have a lot of playing soldier ahead of me.

[oceanperch]

When the researchers start documenting more of what us as careproviders see it will be more benificial to other with disabilities to follow.

Stop treating the Labels put on kids in clinic and start treating the kids as individuals.

I got this deal to fill out by a student at Oregon Health Sciences for her thesis it was so far out there none of us filled it out.

It was all about the names and labels one prefers for their disabled child/adult loved ones. To PC termonlogy. Who gives a crap.

Back in the day they use to lump all kids with severe Cerebral Palsy into one catagory as parents we all knew different each child is an individual just as non disabled kids are.

When my son can't breath he wants medical treatment not disbelief from the medical community that he has lived 24yrs with abilities of a newborn and the intelligence beyond the avg. person and why is he so pro life. Damn treat his asthema so he can breathe and if you are in such disbelief take the time to sit down and share our life for a moment or shut the hell up.

I by accident saw a man once that was going into surgery he as God as my witness looked like the beast in beauty and the beast and then some but I got the opertunity to look into his eyes and I saw his soul it was warm and loving. The nurse with me got visibly upset at seeing him and quickly turned to me to see my reaction. I looked back at him and her with a smile of love.

Then we have humans who are charismatic and beuatiful in accordance with society and they have empty souls.

Tiamat they (society) either get it or they don't. Enjoy the gift God gave you. Even on the long I am tired days we have a gift given for us to care for and love. Don't know why I just know God does.

I am sure he will let me know if it pertains to his plan when I meet him on judgement day.

[Mr. Jeeves]

I've also worked with kids in the "gifted" range. Kids whom I know to be math whizzes, reading several grades above their peers, maybe musical and have a couple of languages on them, and just could care LESS about doing school-work. Bored out of their SKULLS.

That's me! I still hate school.

It's funny you brought that up, because I've just been going through some old papers and I found most of my old report cards. Going back to kindergarten, they all say the same thing: "Mr. Jeeves is extremely bright but he doesn't care about doing class assignments. He plays by himself and ignores the other kids. He is the best reader I've ever taught, but he needs to particpate more in class."

How come they never could believe I found their whole curriculum stupefyingly pointless? It has to be worse today, the way everything is dumbed down to the level of the slowest learners in class. Our education system is choking the life out of the next generation of geniuses we will eventually need as leaders.

But maybe that's the whole point.

[oceanperch]

Yeah well I share your traits I guess I am a female with autistic traits.

I rarely feel empathy like all my girlfriends who cry at the drop of a hat. I always try to understand why women cry and get so emotional and I don't so not to be insensitive towards them. Just figured my brain is chemically wired differently.

Get very frustrated trying to verbalize what I am thinking can type it out better.

Don't have much negative feelings either tend to always be upbeat and happy except when sick or extremly tired.

Rarely get depressed and I think life is great but the Doctors all say I am a uni polar aka manic. Hey as long as I sleep it's all good IMO.

[js1138]

...the problem that Bruno Bettleheim caused when he theorized that autistic children had been raised by cold mothers --eventually called "schizophrenogenic mothers."

Several decades ago I was told by a professor of special ed, that mothers of autistic children had erected a statue of Bruno Bettleheim and met beneath it to feed the pigeons. (I have trouble with the humor impaired, so I think I better label this as a joke.)

A lot of people think there is a hereditary component here. It is possible that Bettleheim simple saw some cold mothers and misinterpreted the cause. If autism occurs as the extreme end of a natural continuum, then people should be careful not to marry people with the same extreme traits.

I'm not convinced that empathy is the key to this. There is a female autistic architect and writer who asserts that her autism manifests as an exaggerated, overwhelming empathy. (For animals, not people, however.)

[tiamat]

Bless you and thank you for your service!

Don't leave home without your D20 and your percentiles!

:-)

[tiamat]

I would have loved to have tutured you!

One of the BEST compliments i ver got was "Mrs. Tiamat, I like you. You're weird! "

And I think the "dumbing down" is the point in some circles!