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GOP Nativists Tarnish Reagan's 'Shining City'
The Wall Street Journal ^ | Monday, March 15, 2004 | JASON L. RILEY

Posted on 03/15/2004 8:41:52 AM PST by presidio9

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:51:16 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Just what is it about immigration that makes so many conservatives lose their bearings?

Broach the subject, as President Bush did in January with his guest-worker initiative for illegal aliens, and free-market advocates start forgetting principles. (Flexible labor markets? What use are those?) Self-styled realists start fantasizing. (Let's just deport all 10 million of 'em, Elian-style!) And colorblind sensibilities are suspended. (White hegemony, where have you gone?) Suggest that immigration, legal or otherwise, not only is in the American tradition but a net benefit to our economy besides, and watch the editors at National Review and the pseudo-populists at Fox News come unhinged.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigration
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To: hchutch
You might want to re-read post #15 a little closer and do an estimate what those numbers will look like in 2004....then combine those figures with the plans to extend Soc. Security benefits to illegals and I'll be curious to see how "comfortable" you are with the WSJ's position on this matter at that point.
41 posted on 03/15/2004 2:04:51 PM PST by american spirit
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To: international american; Monterrosa-24
Georgia is beiing innundated as well.
42 posted on 03/15/2004 2:09:07 PM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: american spirit
No comment on Dr. Tanton's connections with Planned Parenthood or the money from the Pioneer Fund?

Or do you not have a problem with the fatc that FAIR and CIS have taken money from a white supremacist group that endorses "racial purity" vie eugenics?
43 posted on 03/15/2004 2:10:02 PM PST by hchutch (Why did the Nazgul bother running from Arwen's flash flood? They only managed to die tired.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
PS. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants ...
44 posted on 03/15/2004 2:10:24 PM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
....and pretty damn accurate I would add.
45 posted on 03/15/2004 2:10:45 PM PST by american spirit
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To: hchutch
Since I don't support either group it's immaterial.....still estimating those costs on what illegals are costing us and aren't you just gonna love sharing Soc. Sec. $ with these people?
46 posted on 03/15/2004 2:14:24 PM PST by american spirit
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To: american spirit
still estimating those costs on what illegals are costing us and aren't you just gonna love sharing Soc. Sec. $ with these people?

I'm wondering how long they'll feel like paying in until they decide they don't wanna share with "nativists" like me.

47 posted on 03/15/2004 2:19:27 PM PST by skeeter
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
This is a shame. I guess the south and the west are being hammered with illegals.
48 posted on 03/15/2004 2:21:31 PM PST by international american (DU trolls outsourced for free!!)
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To: american spirit
It's simply ridiculous for anyone to think "giving some sort of legalization status" would keep 8-12 million Illegaliens from mushrooming to 80-144 million in three years if "not an amnesty" is granted.
49 posted on 03/15/2004 2:24:04 PM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
I don't either but why in the heck are we spending so much money on services for them? I would sure assume that if they've become naturalized I would think they could at least support themselves. I wouldn't even mind supporting them for a period of time if need be but I think the $ spent on them is outrageous.
50 posted on 03/15/2004 2:25:36 PM PST by american spirit
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To: azhenfud
Key word here is "think".....hard to do if one suffers from rectal/cranial inversion.
51 posted on 03/15/2004 2:27:35 PM PST by american spirit
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To: presidio9
Get rid of all entitlements, and I'll be happy to support broad legal immigration.
52 posted on 03/15/2004 2:29:42 PM PST by Sloth (We cannot defeat foreign enemies of the Constitution if we yield to the domestic ones.)
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To: presidio9
And California Republicans learned the hard way in the mid-1990s, courtesy of the anti-immigrant Proposition 187, that denying education and health benefits to eight-year-old aliens is a political loser in the long run.

It wasn't 187 that marginalized the GOP in CA. 187 was passed by a healthy margin in California--well beyond anything Republicans could've mustered without appealing to a broad voter base. So called "Son of 187" is on the agenda for November's CA election.

And as was said above, "It's the illegality, stupid."

53 posted on 03/15/2004 3:57:18 PM PST by newzjunkey (Send Dick Murphy packing; Ron Roberts for Mayor.)
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To: azhenfud
I think we both know that it *is* an "amnesty" since it is renewable and since the Bush Admin frontman on this, Tom Ridge, admits you can't just round up the illegals *now* because it's too large of a logistics issue that when their work permits *do* expire, no one's going to attempt the round up just as they won't know. It's "amnesty" in "fairness" and "compassionate" clothing. It didn't work in the 1980's, it won't work now.
54 posted on 03/15/2004 4:03:14 PM PST by newzjunkey (Send Dick Murphy packing; Ron Roberts for Mayor.)
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To: hchutch
Well, John Tarton's background is quite interesting. Opened a Planned Parenthood abortion mill, of all things. And how exactly do these groups propose we GET to a population of 150 million?

After much hemming and hawing...by shooting the insufficiently white.

55 posted on 03/15/2004 4:30:00 PM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Maj. Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: american spirit
You wouldn't know accurate if it hit you in the face.

The numbers you all spew actually do harm to the very cause you wish to bring front and center, because of their absolute transparency, and their total lack of balance.

Is there a cost to illegal aliens?

Absolutely.

Are your numbers balanced?

Absolutely not.

There are offsetting numbers that are never brought out because all you want to do is reel in the dupes that can't (or won't) see through your faulty thinking.

Like it or not, illegal aliens do add to the economy, this does not make their being here right, but it does not take away from the glaring fact that we save billions of dollars yearly in the cost of the goods delivered to consumers via the lower wages paid to them, or that Federal coffers have billions of dollars in surplus income tax and social security dollars paid in by these illegal aliens, that they will never recover.

You want to bring attention to your cause?

Stop assuming that the majority of the readers are mindless morons who can't figure out what's wrong with your "studies".

56 posted on 03/15/2004 7:17:09 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Unless the world is made safe for Democracy, Democracy won't be safe in the world.)
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To: Mudboy Slim
It sucks their background can be used to discredit the perfectly-defensible position of being Anti-ILLEGAL Immigration,

Don't fall for the "guilt by association" gambit- it's just a logical fallacy that avoids dealing with the meat of the issue.

Guilt by Association is a class of fallacies in which a proposition is considered invalid because of a circumstantial association with a disliked person, group, other entitity, or concept. Alternatively, a proposition considered to be negative is affirmed by such an association.

http://www.sierrafoot.org/soapbox/fallacies/guilt_by_association.html

57 posted on 03/15/2004 8:48:39 PM PST by Pelham
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To: Pelham; hchutch
"Don't fall for the "guilt by association" gambit- it's just a logical fallacy that avoids dealing with the meat of the issue."

You can see it coming from a mile away, can't you, my FRiend?! Mr. Hutch was tryin' to pull a fast one...heh heh!!

FReegards...MUD

58 posted on 03/15/2004 9:14:01 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: Pelham; Poohbah; Mudboy Slim
Bullcrap.

We're talking funding, and the FOUNDER of those groups who has had no problem taking the money from a very questionable source.

Or do you consider white supremancy and eugenuics to be acceptable? That's the agenda from the Pioneer Fund, which donated $1.5 million to those groups, or did you not bother to read the article? Or do you not want to handle with the fatc you seem awfully comfortable with a bunch of racists?

Logical fallacy? You're ducking the fact that these racists funded FAIR. And Tanton took their money. Either that is failure to duly research what they stood for, OR he KNEW what they stood for, and felt they were acceptable associates.
59 posted on 03/15/2004 9:58:56 PM PST by hchutch (Why did the Nazgul bother running from Arwen's flash flood? They only managed to die tired.)
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To: hchutch
"Bullcrap."

Heh heh heh.

"We're talking funding, and the FOUNDER of those groups who has had no problem taking the money from a very questionable source. Or do you consider white supremancy and eugenuics to be acceptable? That's the agenda from the Pioneer Fund, which donated $1.5 million to those groups, or did you not bother to read the article? Or do you not want to handle with the fatc you seem awfully comfortable with a bunch of racists? Logical fallacy? You're ducking the fact that these racists funded FAIR. And Tanton took their money. Either that is failure to duly research what they stood for, OR he KNEW what they stood for, and felt they were acceptable associates."

Yer arguing about FAIR, I'm arguing the issue!! ILLEGAL Immigration is the problem...and Dubyuh's plan rewards ILLEGAL behavior and does prescious little to dissuade future ILLEGAL behavior!! I'm a friggin' libertarian about most issues, but not about defending our borders!!

Now, if some group of ill repute agrees with my position, I'll let others debate them on this issue.

FReegards...MUD

60 posted on 03/15/2004 10:09:18 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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