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Anti-Firearms Letter From Berkeley
Email from Berkeley | March 18th, 2004 | "C_____ J. W______" <c_____@berkeley.edu>

Posted on 03/18/2004 1:43:47 PM PST by Travis McGee

"C_____ _. W______" wrote:

I represent me only. This is a comment and my opinion.

I don't think the "foundering fathers" had AK-47 or automatic weapons on their minds when they gave American citizens the right to bare arms or when you quoted these individuals to sale your book.

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." "What is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials. ~George Mason, 1788

"On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." ~Thomas Jefferson, 1823

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." ~Samuel Adams, 1788

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." ~Edmund Burke

"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~William Pitt, 1783

"The militia is our ultimate safety. We can have no security without it. The great object is that every man be armed." ~Patrick Henry

We give up our freedom every time we go into another country under the flag of democracy to kill the citizens of another country.

Do you think these people love their families less than Americans. Do you think they will forget. People love their families like you love your own.

Life is basic: to have food, shelter, drinkable water, medicine for the sick. Don't you think that if the world's poor had a choose they would chose to live in peace not war. Don't you think if American poor had a choice they would want just what you have, to provide for their families and enjoy the basics. Instead, we sale them guns to take their resources, we sale them war.

I am a veteran who volunteered no one had to draft me. I was born in this country and have traveled to other countries. I have had children and adult family members killed by guns. This is life long pain. It does not make you want to run out to buy a gun. That gun will not bring back one of my loved ones.

This week three American citizens were killed with AK-47 in Iraq. Do you think they may have bought these guns from the US.

It would be great if all Americans used muskets. The world would be a safer place for all of us to live.

There is a difference between automatic weapons of mass destruction on the streets and a musket in your home for your home protection.

If you are making a profit from the sale of these guns then of course your argument is for the (mass) production of these automatic weapons.

God bless


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: assaultrifles; bang; banglist; berkeley; guns; musket; secondamendment
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This email was sent to me, concerning the quotes by the Founding Fathers which I have posted on the "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" website's home page. It sounds as if CJW hasn't read the book beyond the home page. She included the quotes in her email to me, but then doesn't address them, beyond, "I don't think the "foundering fathers" had AK-47 or automatic weapons on their minds when they gave American citizens the right to bare arms or when you quoted these individuals to sale your book."

This is the email I sent back to her at Berkeley:

C______:

You fall into some of the basic traps of those who think that preventing the private ownership of arms will lead to a safer society. For example, your point about muskets being so much safer is totally wrong. When you factor in the medical care available in the musket era, muskets were MORE dangerous than today's rifles. Any wound at all with a musket usually led to a death in screaming agony in minutes to days. At best, limbs were amputated, and more than half of the time, they died anyway, also in screaming agony with no anesthesia. Today, bullet wounds are usually patched up in the majority of cases, with modern surgery, antibiotics, and anesthetics. So your "muskets were kind and gentle" argument is totally incorrect.

Even in 1780, folks owned "blunderbusses" for shooting geese, and for stopping robbers, rioters, and mutineers. A blunderbuss could fire over 100 chunks of rusty iron in one shot, and could be reloaded rapidly via the wide muzzle. Yet no one worried about someone attacking a picnic or workplace with a blunderbuss. What changed, the deadliness of weaopons, or society? I think the latter.

As far as examples of societies where only the government owned modern weapons, and the people were disarmed, I give you Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, China etc. The Jews who were herded onto trucks and trains in Nazi Germany by a handful of police and soldiers were sent away easily ONLY after they had been disarmed, according to German law. In the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943, Jews used a handful of hidden firearms to begin a rebellion, and used those weapons to win German weapons, and they held out against the force of the German army for months. If all of the German Jews had disobeyed German law and kept their firearms, and resisted at every step, the Nazi holocaust of the Jews could not have happened, based on the Warsaw experience.

I hope you look more deeply into this subject. I urge you to check out this site: "Self Defense is a Basic Human Right. http://www.a-human-right.com/introduction.html

Sincerely,

Matt Bracken

1 posted on 03/18/2004 1:43:48 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: *bang_list; archy; Eaker; Squantos; Mulder; Noumenon; Shooter 2.5; ExSoldier; Beelzebubba; ...

BANG!


2 posted on 03/18/2004 1:45:30 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
LOL. If nothing else, she might learn something from looking at Oleg's pics.
3 posted on 03/18/2004 1:46:10 PM PST by glock rocks (YES, I question your patriotism, J F'n K.)
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To: Travis McGee
I don't think the "foundering fathers" had AK-47 or automatic weapons on their minds when they gave American citizens the right to bare arms or when you quoted these individuals to sale your book.

Yep, it's from Berkeley. Looks like they need to not only study up on the 2nd Amendment, but a little spelling and grammar.

4 posted on 03/18/2004 1:48:01 PM PST by ladtx ( "Remember your regiment and follow your officers." Captain Charles May, 2d Dragoons, 9 May 1846)
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To: Travis McGee
This week three American citizens were killed with AK-47 in Iraq. Do you think they may have bought these guns from the US.

Yeah, they got the SCUDs from us as well.

Rolls eyes.

5 posted on 03/18/2004 1:48:25 PM PST by AdamSelene235
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To: Travis McGee
Do you think these people love their families less than Americans.

They strap bombs to their kids, don't they?

6 posted on 03/18/2004 1:48:28 PM PST by gundog
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To: Travis McGee
Good job. You might also want to see if this Leftist can explain why "the People" means the People in every Amendment to the Constitution except the Second Amendment.

Our founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing when they crafted the Second Amendment. They knew what life was like when the People served (and feared) the Government. They sought to establish from the start that the Government should serve (and fear) the People.

7 posted on 03/18/2004 1:49:26 PM PST by Prime Choice (Hm? No, my powers can only be used for Good.)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Travis McGee
Current data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

WEAPON RELATED VIOLENT CRIME:
Not sure if a weapon used = 6%
Total NON-FIREARM = 17%
Total FIREARM = 9% (from Saturday Night Special to Atomic Cannon)
NO WEAPON USED = 68%!

Where is the concern for the 68%?
9 posted on 03/18/2004 1:50:50 PM PST by leprechaun9
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To: Travis McGee
Ah yes. Another fine Berkeley education in progress.

Should have these kids draw-up their own constitution. Bet it would be interesting to see what they'd put in there.
10 posted on 03/18/2004 1:51:48 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Democrats want to ban sex with animals! They may get hurt!)
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To: Travis McGee
This week three American citizens were killed with AK-47 in Iraq. Do you think they may have bought these guns from the US.

No. Only communist governments used and produced the AK-47.

11 posted on 03/18/2004 1:51:50 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: ladtx
Yup...I recall in a "wizard of Id" when Sir Rodney informed the King that the peasants were demanding the right to bear arms...the King said, "Rip off their sleeves."
12 posted on 03/18/2004 1:51:56 PM PST by gundog
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To: Travis McGee

Well, Matthew B., you penned quite a noble reply to the Bezerkley bimbette. I do hope she reads it and replies to you.
13 posted on 03/18/2004 1:52:38 PM PST by onyx (Kerry' s a Veteran, but so were Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh and Benedict Arnold.)
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To: Travis McGee
I don't think the "foundering fathers" had AK-47 or automatic weapons on their minds when they gave American citizens the right to bare arms or when you quoted these individuals to sale your book.

That's true, but then again, assuming you could afford them, every "military" weapon available was available to the general public. Cannons, for instance. I've seen old pictures and drawings of private residences with cannons in the yard, among other things.

14 posted on 03/18/2004 1:53:05 PM PST by Who dat?
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To: Travis McGee
I don't think the "foundering fathers" had satellite communications or the Internet or high-speed printing presses on their minds when they gave American citizens the right to freedom of the press.
15 posted on 03/18/2004 1:54:34 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Travis McGee
Claire J. Wolfe is from Berkeley? Who would have thought! And that she thinks this way about firearms? Imagine!

Just kidding.

16 posted on 03/18/2004 1:55:10 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: Travis McGee
Boy, what a moron. About the level of spelling and punctuation I'd expect from Berkeley, though.
17 posted on 03/18/2004 1:55:23 PM PST by Sloth (We cannot defeat foreign enemies of the Constitution if we yield to the domestic ones.)
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To: Travis McGee
By my screen name you can obviously tell where I stand on this issue. I live in the great land of Kansas where we can carry concealed weapons now.
This man is an idiot and has know logical basis for any of arguments. The fire arms held in Iraq were most likely smuggled from other terrorist countries. Perhaps they were traded for the war-heads that we can't find.
Take away my gun and you take away my right to protect myself. If bad guys have guns now, who's going to go out and take them from them when the rest of us aren't allowed to own guns. Maybe I should go out and buy a musket. Actually, I would probably have a greater chance of killing myself with a musket than an attacker.
This man is obviously as un-American as the rest of the left.
18 posted on 03/18/2004 1:57:31 PM PST by packing heat
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To: Travis McGee
bare arms

publik skul graduite graduette gradute LOSER!

19 posted on 03/18/2004 1:58:24 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Go Fast, Turn Left!)
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To: VeniVidiVici
Equal and full protection rights for ants.
20 posted on 03/18/2004 1:59:16 PM PST by Trillian
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To: Travis McGee
What can happen only after "Gun Control" is fully instituted:


21 posted on 03/18/2004 1:59:45 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
I salute your effort to enlighten a Berkley liberal. Too bad these pointy-headed, pseudo intellectuals don't care about History beyond revising it!
22 posted on 03/18/2004 2:00:52 PM PST by Shut up and take it
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To: Travis McGee
It would be great if all Americans used muskets. The world would be a safer place for all of us to live.

All right; the day the gang-bangers of the world (and for that matter, the ATF,) lay down their TEK-9's and MP5's, I'll go buy a Brown Bess.

Until then, I'll stick with the fixed ammunition, thank you...


23 posted on 03/18/2004 2:00:57 PM PST by MrJingles (During the Second World War, did the Germans refer to their side as "the Allies"?)
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To: packing heat
Actually the writer is a woman, based on her full first name.
24 posted on 03/18/2004 2:00:59 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
He's not a vet, he is too stupid to be a vet. He is the email version of a Rush Limbaugh seminar caller making false claims to try to lend validity to his lies.
25 posted on 03/18/2004 2:02:56 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Travis McGee
I have had children and adult family members killed by guns

How many were killed by law abiding citizens there Whimpy, hmmm?

26 posted on 03/18/2004 2:03:30 PM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Puppage
Note the family members were simply killed by "guns."

As if the "guns" just hopped down the street by themselves, firing at people with malicious metal minds.

27 posted on 03/18/2004 2:07:12 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Your reply is well-reasoned, well-written, based on historical fact, and logical to the core; therefore, I don't expect the illiterate who wrote to you to understand one word of it. Liberalism is a mental disorder and socialism is a disease - so much so that those who embrace them have no basis on which to grasp truth or reality - they "feel" a certain way, so, to them, that must be the only true reality. I know liberals who cling to the "belief" (much of it fueled by daily drug use) that, "If I thought of it, it must be true." Such people are rarely able to be rehabilitated - they are fit only to wear the chains of slavery (which they themselves have forged) unto the third generation.
28 posted on 03/18/2004 2:08:16 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Travis McGee
I bumped into a similar argument a few day ago. It appears that some more critters are crawling out from under the rocks as spring approaches.

One of the ideas behind the concept of a militia was that they could be armed with (and own) the best current military weapons that contemporary technology could provide (at that time muskets and swords). So, I consider that a private individual should be able to own anything that he could buy (and responsibly) use and maintain.

29 posted on 03/18/2004 2:09:29 PM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (It is a privilege to serve.)
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To: packing heat
I live in the great land of Kansas where we can carry concealed weapons now.

When exactly did Kansas pass a CCW law? The last time I checked a Bill was introduced and it's going to be vetoed by your governor.

30 posted on 03/18/2004 2:10:40 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Travis McGee
they gave American citizens the right to bare arms

Thank you Thomas Jefferson for passing an ammendment allowing me to wear golf shirts and women to wear tank tops, tube tops and halter tops.

31 posted on 03/18/2004 2:10:47 PM PST by N. Theknow (John Kerry is nothing more than Ted Kennedy without a dead girl in the car.)
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To: Travis McGee
Who knows maybe just maybe she might learn something but I do doubt it.
32 posted on 03/18/2004 2:13:55 PM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Travis McGee
I think your polite response was wasted, but it shows class all the same.

BTW... What would you recommend as a good "boat gun" for someone sailing in foreign waters? Fellow in my office wants a suggestion and I told him I knew just the guy to ask.
33 posted on 03/18/2004 2:16:39 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Just once I'd like to get by on my looks.)
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To: Travis McGee
I was enjoying my right to bare arms just yesterday. It was 68 degrees outside. Nice after a long, cold winter.
34 posted on 03/18/2004 2:19:57 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Mossberg 500 Marine.
35 posted on 03/18/2004 2:19:59 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I don't think the "foundering fathers" had satellite communications or the Internet or high-speed printing presses on their minds when they gave American citizens the right to freedom of the press.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of posting this retort.

These liberal boobs & boobettes couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag. "Oh, but the First Amendment is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT amendment."

36 posted on 03/18/2004 2:23:58 PM PST by an amused spectator (John Kerry: Future Leader Of The Traffic Citation On Terror)
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To: All
Bezerkly was a top notch school that used to require top grades and high SAT scores. Now they accept students who cannot properly use "sale" and "sell" in a sentence. Ain't affirmative action great?
37 posted on 03/18/2004 2:26:38 PM PST by BadAndy (Liberalism is a mental illness.)
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To: Travis McGee
As if the "guns" just hopped down the street by themselves, firing at people with malicious metal minds.

I hate it when that happens

38 posted on 03/18/2004 2:28:14 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants; Travis McGee
Only someone from the VPC, Brady Center or Berkeley would put forth the ridiculous idea that terrorists in Afghanistan, who can buy all the full-auto weaponry they could ever need dirt cheap from vast local reserves, would actually travel 10,000 miles to buy a semi-auto, thumbhole-stocked, bare-muzzled, grossly-overpriced AK-lookalike copy at a US gun show. Please.
39 posted on 03/18/2004 2:29:40 PM PST by Sender ("This is the most important election in the history of the world." -DU)
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To: Prime Choice
At the time the 2nd amendment was written, the average citizen could have the same weapon as the army, maybe better if they could afford it.
40 posted on 03/18/2004 2:48:29 PM PST by brooklin
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To: Baynative
Among every elected official, every blackrobe and FLEO must soon decide if he shall honor his sworn oath of office to defend our (ratified) Constitution against enemies foreign or domestic OR if he is bought as a pretorian at war with our Constitution and its gravely serious defenders for life.

We have no "living" Constitution.

Outlaws acting under color of law are conspiring as they undermine our Bill of Rights and usurping powers with no basis in our Constitutional LAW. Anyone who declares "compelling State interests" over-rules any part of our Law of OUR Land is thusly a rogue enemy of our ratified Constitution.

Blackrobes, interpret that.

Our three branches of government are created by and consented to only under the terms of our Constitutionally ratified bilateral social contract. Despite the recent fascist criminality and conspiracies of the Congresses, President(s) Clintons et al., and numerous blackrobes, We the People and the several states reserve the power regardless of bullying proclamations by politicians to the contrary.

The Rehnquist SCOTUS is serially notoriously unConstitutional as justices are as insulting as they are ruling us without basis in law pursuant to our Constitution, from which they derive any and all of their temporary limited lawful authority over anyone. Our employees creatively and repeatedly mock the very contract which provides them a lawful forum, paycheck, and retirement

Tyranny shall be interpreted by the citizens who may withdraw consent to be governed by officious outlaws and their armed pretorian gangs, acting under color of law. What CONSTITUTIONAL LAW?

Tens of millions of citizens are taking note as we practice our civil rights, including our RTKABA pursuant to our 2nd and 14th Amendments, without asking permission from would be bullies and their pretorians whose only blustering standing is "acting under color of law".

Only one point to aim at: If a "Poll Tax" is unConstitutional, then there is no defense to any assertion that our RTKABA can be by permission only.
41 posted on 03/18/2004 3:08:14 PM PST by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
What would you recommend as a good "boat gun" for someone sailing in foreign waters?

HARPOON means never having to say you're sorry! My surplus store doesn't have 'em, though.---- ;^)

42 posted on 03/18/2004 3:32:22 PM PST by JimRed (Fight election fraud! Volunteer as a local poll watcher, challenger or district official.)
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To: AdamSelene235
"...three American citizens were killed with AK-47 in Iraq. Do you think they may have bought these guns from the US."

Ah, yes. Kalashnikov, a time-honored AMERICAN name.
43 posted on 03/18/2004 3:33:44 PM PST by beelzepug ((growing more confused by the minute))
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To: glock rocks
I have no idea how a Berkeley student, prof or staffer might have stumbled upon my website, but I like to think some subversive conservative has been planting my postcard-sized book covers on bulletin boards there.

Anyway, if she checks out Oleg Volk's "Self Defense is a Basic Human Right" site, it will be worth it. Maybe.

44 posted on 03/18/2004 3:43:10 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Aaahh! The whore known as Kathleen Sebelius. Yes, she is quite a problem here. Fortunately, she didn't veto the bill according to my knowledge. All the liberals here are ragging about it. You may very well be right, but it is a step in the right direction either way.
45 posted on 03/18/2004 4:36:50 PM PST by packing heat
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To: N. Theknow
I see where the problem is now. We all assume she's talking about guns here, but she's really talking about our arms.:)
46 posted on 03/18/2004 4:39:29 PM PST by packing heat
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To: packing heat
Kansas does not have a license to carry. The bill was just introduced and it's still working it's way through the committees.

I would suggest you read this website for Kansas and help out so you can carry legally.

http://www.packing.org/

There's a list of legislators that have to be called.
47 posted on 03/18/2004 4:46:21 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Travis McGee
I have had children and adult family members killed by guns.

Hmmmm.

One has to wonder just what kind of a family this woman comes from to have adult and child members of her family killed by guns. Maybe she lives in a crime and gang ridden urban area?

Or maybe she's making it all up....

48 posted on 03/18/2004 5:02:48 PM PST by Gritty ("Carrying a gun doesn't make you safe. But it can make you safer"-Tucker Carlson in Iraq)
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To: gundog
"Do you think these people love their families less than Americans."

They strap bombs to their kids, don't they?

Very good point. So much for "all people everywhere are the same."

49 posted on 03/18/2004 5:27:20 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Gritty
If she's tellin the troof, they were probably offed in gang wars over drug turf.
50 posted on 03/18/2004 6:35:22 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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