Tennessee county beats hasty retreat from call to ban homosexuals

Associated Press ^ | March 18, 2004 | BILL POOVEY

[ninenot]

Properly understood, "Liberty" is the freedom to do WHAT IS RIGHT--not what is wrong.

So while Americans have "liberty," one should not define this to mean license of "libertinism."

At the same time, I think Narses overstates his case. America's "moral" sense has been a bit compromised with the adulation of Carnegie, Rockefeller, and other folks who worship proudly at the altar of Capital.

And I'm not so sure about Truman's use of the A-bomb, either.

[ninenot]

It is no problem whatsoever for various Governments to declare practicing homosexual activity a criminal offense.

And they can enforce the laws selectively, just like damn near any other law on the books.

The civil code must re-inforce the moral code, but does not have to be enforced 24x7 with infrared detectors. All one needs to do is (as all police departments do now) make a few show arrests of the worst violators of public order.

Worked very well until the 1960's.

[timm22]

Properly understood, "Liberty" is the freedom to do WHAT IS RIGHT--not what is wrong.

I think freedom would have to imply choice- what choice is there if there is only one option allowed?

Furthermore, who gets to determine what is right? What criteria do they use?

[timm22]

How can one have freedom withOUT morality?

Does morality necessarily have to be legislated?

I tend to believe that there has to be some common values shared by most people in order to live free. Things like respect for property or the rejection of violence as a means of getting what you want. I do not think these values have to extend so far as to the Judeo-Christian morality as commonly understood on this website.

As long as people do not violate the rights of others, they can be free and yet have different moral systems.

Name a modern amoral or imoral people who have been free.

Your challenge is difficult, as every people in every time have faced some restriction on their freedom. Also, by what standard do we judge morality? But, I guess I could offer Western Europe as an example. Relative to the rest of the world and to history, they are very free. True, most are social democracies and limit economic freedom in some ways, but the social democratic model has been in place there for quite some time. Compared to America, most of Western Europe has low church attendance and more relaxed views on sex and drugs.

[narses]

But, I guess I could offer Western Europe as an example.

Western Europe is a great example of a decayed and decadent libertine failure. You may embrace the eruoweenies, I emrace the values of Western Civilization that they have abandoned. If your definition of 'freedom' revolves around "more relaxed views on sex and drugs", I can only offer you my condolences and prayers.

[timm22]

Western Europe is a great example of a decayed and decadent libertine failure.

That may be so, but does that mean they are not free compared to the rest of the world? That was the point of discussion, if I recall correctly.

You may embrace the eruoweenies, I emrace the values of Western Civilization that they have abandoned. If your definition of 'freedom' revolves around "more relaxed views on sex and drugs", I can only offer you my condolences and prayers.

I do not embrace Europeans; I simply provided them as an example that freedom does not require enforcement of Judeo-Christian morality. Likewise, I do not define freedom based on "more relaxed views on sex and drugs." That phrase was referring to the moral position of Europe, not their freedom.

[tinacart]

Well Melinda, if you can read, you'll see I'm not an outsider. I was born in Blythe County, and yes, when I was growing up in Tennessee it WAS like that!!! No, I changed my mind, I made it all up just for fun! Maybe YOU grew up on a large farm, but I didn't. Nowhere in any post did I say it's like that now. Matter of fact, if you read, I said just the opposite. And, just because we went to the spring for our water, or used an outhouse, doesn't mean it was a bad thing. We had a lot of fun and learned to appreciate what we do have rather than complain about what we don't have!