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New Kosovo Violence is Start of Predicted 2004 Wave of Islamist Operations
Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily | Mar.17,2004 | Gregory R. Copley, Editor,

Posted on 03/18/2004 8:24:32 PM PST by MadelineZapeezda

Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily

Volume XXII, No. 50 Friday, March 19, 2004

© 2004, Global Information System, ISSA

Exclusive Special Report

New Kosovo Violence is Start of Predicted 2004 Wave of Islamist Operations: the Strategic Ramifications

Analysis. By Gregory R. Copley, Editor, GIS, with input from GIS Stations in Priština, Belgrade and elsewhere. The major wave of violence instigated in the Kosovo region of Serbia on beginning on about March 14, 2004, and escalating dramatically through March 18, 2004, is the start of the forecast series of unrest, guerilla warfare and terrorist activity planned by radical Islamist leaders in Bosnia, Albania, Iran and in the Islamist areas of Serbia, and directly linked with the various al-Qaida-related mujahedin and terrorist cells in the area.

Attempts have already been made to blame the violence on the very small Serbian population which remains in Kosovo, but this is not credible, and nor has the Serbian Government shown any enthusiasm to get involved in the situation.

Sources confirm that the violence, which began on March 17, 2004, and continued to escalate through March 18, 2004, is not an isolated expression of frustration, but, rather, part of a planned “season” of unrest designed explicitly to pull US and Western strategic focus away from Iraq, and to ensure that US and Western peacekeeping forces — which have been progressively diverted to Iraq operations and away from Kosovo and Bosnia — will need to be held in the Balkans. The purposes are multifold:

1. To remove US and Western focus on Iraq, thereby relieving pressure on Iran’s clerical leadership and helping to ensure the retention of Iranian capability to link, via Iraq, with Syria;

2. To demonstrate the failure of the Western “war on terror” and specifically to discredit those Western leaders who supported the war in the run-up to elections in the US and Australia;

3. To create a climate of instability around the Olympic Games, scheduled for August 2004 in Athens, and which feature as a major target for unrest and terrorism;

4. To consolidate Islamist control over parts of the Balkans, specifically the so-called “green transversal”1 belt which links the Adriatic Coast through Albania, FYR of Macedonia, the Serbian Kosovo and Metohija region, the southern Serbia/northern Montenegro Raška (Sandzak) region, through the Gorazde Corridor into Bosnia, not only as a terrorist corridor but also to facilitate a clear highway for narco-trafficking and weapons shipments.

Significantly, the Serbian Government within the union of Serbia & Montenegro, had, until the recent Serbian elections, attempted to ignore the growing incitement to a new outbreak of violence and unrest on the part of the Muslim community of southern Serbia (Raška) and Kosovo because it did not wish to be seen to be drawing attention to the growing Muslim agitation. However, this action merely allowed the process to continue to build without any major intelligence or policy focus on the problem. The issue was compounded by the fact that two major international oversight bodies — the Office of the High Representative (OHR) in Sarajevo, Bosnia, and the German-controlled command of UN Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK) — both sided with radical Islamists and known war-criminals also, presumably, to avoid the appearance of being anti-Muslim.

The warnings of this wave of violence were explicitly clearly and starkly forecast by GIS/Defense & Foreign Affairs reports over the past year, and specifically on October 15, 2003, Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily, in a report entitled Strong Warning Indicators for New Surge in European Islamist Terrorism, which noted:

Intelligence sources in the Balkans and Middle East indicate that the Iranian and Osama bin Laden terrorist networks, assets and alliances built up in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Southern Serbia and elsewhere in the Balkans are preparing for significant new slate of operations. Initial operations in this “new slate” have already begun in Kosovo, and are expected to expand in southern Serbia in late October and into November 2003.

The intelligence, from a variety of primary sources within the Islamist movements, points to:

1. Escalation of Islamist terrorist attacks on Serb civilians within the predominantly Muslim region of Kosovo and Metohija in the Serbian province of Kosovo;

2. Commencement during October-November 2003 of seemingly-random bombings of public places, including schools, in Muslim-dominated cities in the southern Serbian/northern Montenegrin Raška Oblast (this oblast, or region — not a formal sub-state as in the Russian use of the word “oblast” — is referred to by Islamists by its Turkish name, Sandzak) as a prelude to wider violence in this area, and eastern Montenegro, adjacent to the Albanian border and reaching down to the Adriatic;

3. Coordination of incidents by the so-called “Albanian National Army” — a current iteration of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA, or UCK: Ushtria Clirimtare e Kosoves, in Albanian; OVK in Serbo-Croat) — in Kosovo and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia with activities in Raška, led by the Bosnian radical Islamist party, SDA (Party of Democratic Action) of Alija Izetbegovic, and all supported by Albanian Government-approved/backed training facilities inside Albania, close to the border with Serbian Kosovo;

4. Escalation of incidents — including threats, political action, terrorist action — within Bosnia-Herzegovina, designed to further polarize the Serbian and Croat population away from the Muslim population;

5. Eventual escalation of “incidents” to create a “no-go” area for Serbian, Montenegrin, Republica Srpska security forces and international peacekeepers in a swathe of contiguous territory from the Adriatic through Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro, Southern Serbia and Macedonia into Bosnia-Herzegovina, effectively dissecting the Republica Srpska state (which is within Bosnia-Herzegovina) at the Gorazde Corridor and isolating Montenegro;

6. Using the extensive save-haven areas and “no-go” zones created by the actions, undertake a range of terrorist actions against targets in Greece — which is contiguous with Albania and (FYR) Macedonia — during (and possibly before) the August 2004 Olympic Games. Specific intelligence points to the fact that the Islamist groups have already predetermined target opportunities during the Games.

News sources indicated on March 18, 2004, that NATO could dispatch nearly 2,000 additional troops to Kosovo, including 750 from the United Kingdom, to deal with the new unrest. As of March 18, 2004, after only a few days of unrest, it was understood that 35 NATO troops had been injured. Some 350 extra troops were already being sent in, including US and Italians from Bosnia, as well as British forces. The UK Government then announced it was sending 750 new troops into Kosovo. At least 14 people had been reported killed in Kosovo as a result of the new fighting, much of which centers around the divided town of Mitrovica; hundreds have been injured.

A crowd of Albanians, estimated at 3,000 strong, attacked the UN police station in Mitrovica before crossing the city's main bridge and heading into the Serbian side where there were exchanges of machinegun fire and hand-grenades. The Albanian groups were seen to be in possession of heavy automatic weapons and grenades. It had been claimed that the Albanians had mobilized to attack Serbs who had allegedly chased several boys into a river where three of them were drowned, ostensibly in retaliation for an earlier (and confirmed) drive-by shooting in which a Serbian youth was killed.

However, UNMIK spokesman Derek Chappell said on the night of March 18, 2004, that the survivor of the March 17, 2004, Ibar River drowning had told his parents that he and three friends entered the river alone and were immediately caught up in the heavy current. The boy managed to reach the opposite bank of the river, but his three companions were swept away. It was clear that the Albanian forces were mobilized and ready for the assault and that the story about the drownings was merely used as a convenient claim on which to base the attacks.

But what seemed clear was the the German-run UNMIK forces were totally unprepared for the outbreak, despite the warnings and knowledge of Islamist plans for such actions. As a result, UN forces were known to have withdrawn rather than protect Serb areas and Serbian Orthodox churches, which were supposedly to be protected as cultural heritage sites. The Kosovo Force (KFOR) units fared somewhat better, using rubber bullets and tear gas, but they, too, were unprepared for the scale of the operations conducted by the Albanians.

A German spokesman had, in recent months, made clear anti-Serbian remarks, highlighting the biased nature of the supposedly impartial international force supposedly administering Kosovo with the support of KFOR military units and police provided by donor nations [a Polish police unit was in charge of the area of Metrovica when the incident occurred]. UNMIK had, additionally, on several occasions, tried to overturn international warrants and criminal proceedings against one of the key Kosovo radicals, known war criminal Agim Ceku, who was now working as the Commander of the Kosovo Protection Corps (KPC), which was, in fact, created out of the narco-terrorism organization, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA/UCK).2

The October 15, 2003, GIS/Defense & Foreign Affairs report also indicated that Ceku’s KPC was directly engaged in support of Albanian-trained Islamist terrorists, noting:

“During the first half of August 2003, 300 Albanian-trained guerillas — including appr. 10 mujahedin (non-Balkan Muslims) — were infiltrated across the Albanian border into Kosovo, where many have subsequently been seen in the company (and homes) of members of the so-called Kosovo Protection Corps which was created out of Kosovo Albanian elements originally part of the KLA. In fact, the Kosovo Protection Force seems almost synonymous with the Albanian National Army (ANA), the new designation for the KLA. The guerillas were trained in three camps inside the Albanian border at the towns of Bajram Curi, Tropoja and Kuks, where the camps have been in operation since 1997.”

All of the warning signs are there for an escalation of substantial proportions, both in Kosovo and in neighboring areas. On March 18, 2004, Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily highlighted the confluence of Islamist terrorist activities in 2004, in a report entitled Terrorism, the Olympics and Elections: the 2004 Confluence. What that report made clear was the fact that the March 11, 2004, bombings in Madrid were a precursor for the “season” of violence, and the success of the actions there in shaping the political outcome of the Spanish general election gave strong impetus to the actions planned for the Olympics, the US and elsewhere.

The campaign to paint the Serbs as the aggressors included references, picked up by international media, that Serbia & Montenegrin forces and/or internal security forces from the Republic of Serbia were deployed to move back into Kosovo. Serbian Premier Vojislav Kostunica said on March 17, 2004, that “our military and police units are not deployed along the administrative line with Kosovo-Metohija”. Speaking at a news conference after the Serbian Government's special session held to discuss the clashes in Kosovo-Metohija, Kostunica said that news about the army and police presence at the administrative line dividing Kosovo province from the rest of Serbia were misinformation spread on purpose in order to justify a further radicalization of the situation.3

This was confirmed by intelligence sources on the ground in Kosovo; there were no Serbian military or police deployments in the area.

Similarly, reports of the sacking of a mosque in Belgrade by Serbs was also distorted, largely to cover the fact that a significant number of Serbian Orthodox churches had been destroyed by the Albanians in Kosovo: destructions which were witnessed, and not prevented, by UNMIK forces on some occasions. There was, however, an incident at the mosque in Belgrade, and a GIS source witnessed the incident on March 17, 2004, and noted: “Hooligans — and that’s what they really were: drunk kids, 17 to 22 years old — pillaged the interior of the mosque as well as the madarasa [Islamic school].” The source said that the teenagers lit a fire in front of the mosque, but did not damage it.

UN Police Director for Information in Kosovo, Derek Chappell, noted on March 17, 2004: “In the past weeks there have been a number of incidents that have escalated tension. We had a hand grenade attack on the residence of President of Kosovo last Friday, we have had four or five hand grenades thrown on the streets of Priština, we had a bomb left on the front of UN headquarters two weeks ago and a Serbian youth was shot in a drive-by shooting this last Monday evening [March 15, 2004]. These incidents have tended to create a feeling of fear and uncertainty and last night we had three Albanian youngsters who drowned in a river, allegedly as a result of being chased into the river by Serbs, and this seems to have been the catalyst that finally drove people into the streets and we saw this violence that erupted today [March 17, 2004].”

However, as noted in repeated reports by GIS since mid-2004, the escalation was planned, and — because of pressures to move US and other forces out of the area to aid Iraq deployments — NATO intelligence and planning officials downplayed the threat.

The matter was not helped when, in recent weeks, former US Clinton Administration State Dept. Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke said that the break-up of the former Yugoslavia was not yet complete: it required that Montenegro and Kosovo be broken off to form separate sovereign states. A number of officials from the region told GIS that they thought that this comment must have reflected official positions in Washington. Almost certainly the statement by Holbrooke gave encouragement and incitement to the new wave of attacks in Kosovo.

Meanwhile, on the night of March 18, 2004, Serbia & Montenegro Pres. Svetozar Marovic convened a special session of the Serbia & Montenegro Supreme Defense Council, to discuss the latest escalation of clashes. The Council issued a statement that which said that it was following with great concern the escalation of organized violence in Kosovo and Metohija, and was calling on, and expecting from, UNMIK and KFOR, as well as from other international institutions, to ensure the protection of the lives of Serbs and Montenegrins and of their property in Kosovo and Metohija and to fulfill other commitments undertaken under resolution 1244. The Supreme Defence Council supported the contacts of relevant bodies of Serbia and Montenegro, the Serbian Government and the Army of Serbia and Montenegro with international institutions and expressed a readiness of the Army of Serbia and Montenegro to lend assistance to the international forces for stabilizing the situation in Kosovo and Metohija in keeping with resolution 1244, within the mandate of KFOR and UNMIK.

The Supreme Defense Council, along with the existing activities of the Army of Serbia and Montenegro, ordered the Chief of Staff to follow the situation and to suggest to the Supreme Defense Council what measures should be taken next. Apart from the chairman and members of the Council, Acting Pres. of Serbia Predrag Markovic and Montenegrin Pres. Filip Vujanovic, also took part in the meeting, along with Serbian Premier Vojislav Kostunica, Serbia & Montenegro Defense Minister Boris Tadic, Deputy Defense Minister Vukasin Maras, Chief of Staff Gen. Branko Krga and Supreme Defense Council secretary Col. Ljunisa Jokic.

Fewer than 20,000 KFOR troops remain in Kosovo, and the few Serbs who remain there still live in ghetto conditions; very few who fled during the fighting in 1999 have returned to their former homes. Serbs now represent only about 10 percent of Kosovo’s two-million population.

It would, however, be unwise to focus solely on the Kosovo incidents without seeing them in the light of regional developments and the larger picture, including operations in and related to the ongoing peacekeeping operations in Iraq. Significantly, as the Kosovo operation itself got underway, al-Qaida senior leader Ayman al-Zawahiri was reportedly being besieged by Pakistan Army forces in southern Waziristan, in the Pakistani tribal areas. Ayman al-Zawahiri, and his brother Mohammed (currently in an Egyptian prison) organized and led much of the terrorist, mujahedin and narco-trafficking arrangements in both Bosnia and Kosovo. And these arrangements remain central to al-Qaida and Iranian strategic operations to move from defensive operations against the US-led Coalition forces to strongly offensive operations in the run-up to the 2004 US elections.

Footnotes:

1. The attempt to create a Muslim belt from the Adriatic Sea up into the heart of Europe has been known for many decades by the Islamists as the “green transversal”, the green standing for the Muslim color (although, ironically, it is also the color of the Orthodox Christians), and transversal meaning a line or path on the ascendant. The Bosnian Muslims, even during the Tito era, managed to inject the name onto sports stadium in Sarajevo, now the capital of Bosnia & Herzegovina. The Zetra Stadium specifically stands for ZElena (Green) TRAnsverszala, in Serbo-Croat.

2. See Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily, October 23, 2003: Slovenia Arrests Key Kosovo Islamist, Based on Serbia-Montenegro Indictment. And Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily, March 5, 2004: UN Mission In Kosovo Continues Protection for KLA Leader Ceku. See also Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily, February 11, 2004: Report on Albanian Criminal-Terrorist Links Providing Key Intelligence for Olympics Security, “War on Terror”.

3.. See Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily, November 17, 2003: New Balkans Islamist Weapons Supply Line Tied to 9/11 Players and Contact of Holbrooke. And Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily report of September 17, 2004: Bosnian Official Links With Terrorism, Including 9/11, Become Increasingly Apparent as Clinton, Clark Attempt to Justify Support of Bosnian Militants.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balkans; binladen; kosovo; wot
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This article should all be highlited. A must read for all the networks. Why is there no discussion on the news shows about this? Other than the networks saying that mosques were burned. Maybe it took that to get them at least to mention it on the news. This doesn't look good at all. Klinton's legacy continues to build!

Could it be that bin Laden is hiding here in the Balkans?

1 posted on 03/18/2004 8:24:33 PM PST by MadelineZapeezda
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To: MadelineZapeezda
Someone better learn from history real fast.

The ONLY way America stopped the Japs was to exorcise the cultural demons that infected that kamikaze nation with a nuke downtown.

Radical Muslim nations that vow our destruction and smirk, support and aid terrorists need a wake-up call, and soon.
2 posted on 03/18/2004 8:31:09 PM PST by Enduring Freedom (Misery Index Now At Lower End Of Scale - Thank You, President Bush!)
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To: MadelineZapeezda
WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP :))))

HAHAHAHAHA

3 posted on 03/18/2004 8:37:11 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: MadelineZapeezda
online link?
4 posted on 03/18/2004 8:38:30 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: MadelineZapeezda
" . . . planned by radical Islamist leaders . . ."

I think we can all stop the pretense of calling some Islamists 'radical.'

5 posted on 03/18/2004 8:41:17 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: Destro
I'm looking for a link. It came by email by a subscriber.
6 posted on 03/18/2004 8:46:40 PM PST by MadelineZapeezda
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To: MadelineZapeezda
are you subscribed to Debka??

7 posted on 03/18/2004 8:49:30 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: Makedonski
Are you an UCK sympathizer? Want to get banned again?
8 posted on 03/18/2004 9:02:29 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: MadelineZapeezda
The author/editor Gregory R. Copley is the real deal. Check out the price for his highly prized book on Amazon:

Defense & Foreign Affairs Handbook 1999 by Gregory R. Copley List Price: $242.00

9 posted on 03/18/2004 9:07:44 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
yes he is the real deal, do a google search on him for more.
10 posted on 03/18/2004 9:24:55 PM PST by MadelineZapeezda
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To: Destro
When the Euro came up in 2000 it went up up and up to 1.2 US dollars.

2001 Macedonia war happend. Europe had instability on its border.

Euro went down and down to the dollar.

Now the Euro is up and up and up as never before ...

Hot Balkan spring and summer predicted ...
11 posted on 03/18/2004 9:31:03 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: Destro
16th MARCH 2004 DAY BEFORE ATTACKS AGAINST SERBS IN KOSOVO STARTED

Kosovo Protection Corps proposes “military strategy” | 13:11 | SRNA

PRISTINA -- Tuesday – The Kosovo Protection Corps (KPC) has drafted a “Military Strategy” in response to the threat of Serb forces returning to the province and the danger posed by the creation of Serb enclaves, Pristina daily Zeri reports.

Quoted by Belgrade daily Vecernje Novosti, Zeri reports that the document has been submitted to the United Nations mission, KFOR international peacekeeping force and other international offices in Pristina.

It warns that the “enclavisation” of the Serb minority represents a security threat to the province, as does the continuing influence of the regime in Belgrade and its refusal to accept the laws and rules of the international presence.

The KPC, which was created by the UN from the disbanded guerrilla army, proposed the creation of a 10,000-strong Kosovo army, with 20,000 reservists. The focus will be on rapid reaction units.
12 posted on 03/18/2004 9:37:03 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: MadelineZapeezda
Here is my question. The peoples of the Balkans have been killing each other for centuries without our help. Within the Balkans there are numerous ethnic and religious groups.
Some are western oriented and Christian and others are oriented more toward non western culture and are Muslim. SO why when we decided to choose sides in 1999 why did we side with the non-western Muslim groups against the pro-western Christian groups? There was plenty of atrocities and ethnic cleansing to go around on both sides.

I mean if we are fighting an international war against Islamic fundamentalist backed terrorism and one side in the on-going and long lived Balkan blood feuds supports our enemies, and the other is and has been for years fighting with this group for control of the area, would it have made more sense either to not get involved at all or if we had to get involved to get involved on the Christian side? Just asking.
13 posted on 03/18/2004 9:58:42 PM PST by redangus
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To: redangus
Here is my question. The peoples of the Balkans have been killing each other for centuries without our help.

That is a distortion which is only true of the 19th century as the Balkan peoples freed themselves from Turkish and Austrian rule-and now the break up of Yugoslavia - a Western creation. If we do not count Turkish atrocities (a non Balkan people) in reality Western-Central Europeans have been killing each other in far more bloodier wars then the Europeans of the Balkans.

14 posted on 03/18/2004 10:03:10 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: redangus
>>> People in the Balkans have been killing each other for centuries <<< IS THE BIGGEST LIE

When ever there has been a war in the Balkans due to conflicting foreign interests there was also a WORLD WAR.

So a lie was made 10 years ago for people not to worry and not to think that another WORLD war is on the menu.
15 posted on 03/18/2004 10:06:41 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: Makedonski
The call the Balkans bloody - when in reality wars amongst the Orthodox Christian Balkan peoples were anything but. The Turks killed a lot but they are not Balkan peoples. No death toll like the 30 years wars of Germany, or the wars England and France fought or France and Germany or Spain, etc.
16 posted on 03/18/2004 10:20:23 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
link: http://news.serbianunity.net/bydate/2004/March_19/9.html
17 posted on 03/19/2004 5:37:30 AM PST by getgoing
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To: NYC Republican; Ronly Bonly Jones; Cronos; Hoplite; joan; Andy from Beaverton; Fusion; ...
Intelligence sources in the Balkans and Middle East indicate that the Iranian and Osama bin Laden terrorist networks, assets and alliances built up in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Southern Serbia and elsewhere in the Balkans are preparing for significant new slate of operations. Initial operations in this “new slate” have already begun in Kosovo, and are expected to expand in southern Serbia in late October and into November 2003.

18 posted on 03/19/2004 6:28:48 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: MadelineZapeezda
Great post, by the way. I can't wait to hear what sort of nonsense the KLA apologists are going to make up in order to counter the facts.
19 posted on 03/19/2004 6:30:23 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: FormerLib
Let the Italians take over Albania and Kosovar Albania in a 20 year mandate to christianise it completely. Then, when the Albanians have returned to the Christian fold (from which they were forced to convert by the Turks), the Italians leave.
20 posted on 03/19/2004 6:33:58 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: MadelineZapeezda

"We must make no distinction between terrorists, and those who aid and harbor them."

21 posted on 03/19/2004 6:42:50 AM PST by Dr.Deth
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To: Cronos
I doubt that anyone could force the Italians into it...

...but they could perhaps act as international monitors while the Serb army stabilizes the area.
22 posted on 03/19/2004 6:44:47 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: MadelineZapeezda
Stabilizing Kosovo could be accomplished without so much as a wink and nod.
23 posted on 03/19/2004 7:01:25 AM PST by skeeter
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To: FormerLib
I don't think the ethnic hatred between the two sides would enable the Serbs to be sufficiently neutral. I chose the Italians as they've been the most benign power in Jugoslavia since the Romans (during WWII)
24 posted on 03/19/2004 7:02:16 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Cronos
That would be fantastic, if the Italians had the appetite (I doubt they would)...
25 posted on 03/19/2004 7:08:54 AM PST by NYC Republican (The GOP is Finally Engaging the Liars! Yes!!! Let the Battle Begin...)
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To: Cronos
I don't think the ethnic hatred between the two sides would enable the Serbs to be sufficiently neutral.

That's irrelevant as the UN has already acknowledged that Kosovo lies within the international borders of Serbia. It is their nation and it will take an occupying army to keep them out.

26 posted on 03/19/2004 7:32:13 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: Cronos
The Italian soldiers were particularly noted for saving Jews in Croatia from being killed by the Croats (Ustasha). Wherever Italians had control the Jews were protected. Don't know if the Italians protected the Serbs in Croatia as much. In Kosovo, they seemed to slow it down - the killings of Serbs by Albanians - and yet their country was responsible for raising Albanian fascists in the first place. Kosovo Albanian fascists wouldn't have had as much success in the first place without the Italians.
27 posted on 03/19/2004 7:36:55 AM PST by joan
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To: FormerLib
Well, the UN made the mistake of not supporting us in Irq, the organisation is useless.
28 posted on 03/19/2004 7:38:12 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: joan
Check this link:
http://members.aol.com/Plaku/religio.htm
29 posted on 03/19/2004 7:42:20 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: FormerLib
The ethnic hatred IS relevant. I abhor this 'ethnic cleansing' that BOTH sides have indulged in. There MUST be a neutral power to prevent it from happening again.
30 posted on 03/19/2004 7:46:52 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: MadelineZapeezda
A peace of advice: swallow your drink before you get ready to read this pile of crap, please wait a second while I wipe the coffee off the keyboard...

>>>Could it be that bin Laden is hiding here in the Balkans?

OBL would be safer in downtown Manhattan than anywhere in the Balkans, and especially anywhere near an Albanian.
31 posted on 03/19/2004 8:24:27 AM PST by GeraldP (Feja e shqiptarit eshte Shqiptaria)
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To: Makedonski
I would suggest you read the book the "Kingdoms of Europe". In it you will find a very informative chapter on the history of the Balkans going back well into the first century which describes in detail the internecine battles between the ruling families of the region.

I would also suggest you read available information on atrocities committed by all sides during WWII. Even the Germans were appalled at the brutality they witnessed, albeit often times abetted by them for their own gain.

The region of the Balkans has only peace when it was being ruled by some entity stron enough to control the simmering ethnic hatreds, i.e. The Romans, the Ottomans, Tito, even the Nazi couldn't control the region effectively.

There is historical precedent for using the term balkanization to describe a situation where multiple ethinics group can not co-exist.

But all that being said you still did not address my initial question. Why if we were going to become involved in a parochial squabble with international consequences, did we join up on the side that supports our enemies? For my money we should have just stayed home, but we didn't. We stuck our nose in where it didn't belong and gave aid to a group of people who are anti-western, pro-islamist and are now evidently support and assisting the very people we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.
32 posted on 03/19/2004 8:50:41 AM PST by redangus
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To: MadelineZapeezda
So it seems that the only person confronting the Islamic hordes during the Clinton years was Slobo !! And the world puts him on trial ??
33 posted on 03/19/2004 8:56:36 AM PST by lonerepubinma
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To: MadelineZapeezda; Destro
Could it be that bin Laden is hiding here in the Balkans?

There is plenty of evidence that Bin Laden was active in Bosnia and Albania. At the same time Clinton was pumping billions into supporting the KLA and Bosnian Jihadists.......they gave Bin Laden citizenship so he could travel.

destro.......your links please........

34 posted on 03/19/2004 9:32:03 AM PST by vooch
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To: redangus
get involved on the Christian side ?

well many KFOR soldiers have come back thinking the same thing a General said after spending a long time in Kosovo that.......... We bombed the wrong side

35 posted on 03/19/2004 9:34:05 AM PST by vooch
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To: joan
Vinci Reme

vidi vreme

36 posted on 03/19/2004 9:41:58 AM PST by vooch
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To: FormerLib
And yet, most of West still to stupidly arrogant to admit that it all one humongous mistake of Balkans.
37 posted on 03/19/2004 9:46:45 AM PST by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: redangus
The country that has seen most wars on its own soil is ....

Denmark

I was surprised just to hear that.

Read this now:

Secret scheme for Kosovo crisis

Janes Defence

Foreign Report was told by a well-placed source that discussion in the US on Kosovo's future revolves around the 'Austrian model'.

Washington has decided that Kosovo WILL be INDEPENDENT!!

If every one here sais that Kosovo was Clintons fault then BUSH will give the Muslim Albanians a new state in Europe.

NATO is just supervising the ethnic cleansing.

IF the SERB army intervenes then they will be bombed by the US-NATO once again.

It is done deal. Macedonia is next.

OH I forgot to mention. The Kosovo government has promised last year that 10000 Albanians are ready to go into Iraq on US request. This is not BS. I will provide a link shortly.

38 posted on 03/21/2004 3:31:03 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: vooch
see my post on this topic.

Bush will give independence to Kosovo very shortly.

39 posted on 03/21/2004 3:34:13 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: Destro
See Janes Defence Weekly.

All post 911 US policy illusions lost.

Kosovo will become independent shortly with US support.

Holkeri for the American Radio said that to use the term "ethnic cleansing" for the recent attacks on Serbs in Kosovo was too STRONG. He also said that few churches were burnt and the 20 Serbs that got killed just did not hide as the rest.

40 posted on 03/21/2004 3:40:06 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: Makedonski
NATO is just supervising the ethnic cleansing.

NATO is only too happy to remove all the Serbs. After being terrorized and seeing houses burn in their villages, "fortunately," Serb witnesses are saying, "NATO showed up just in time" to take them out. In one village, Danish soldiers came to remove the Serbs who were under threat, but when the Serbs said they were going to stay, the Danish soldiers abandonned the village leaving in unguarded and unprotected.

It is something they (NATO, international community, Albanians) must have planned for some time. The overwhelming violence is made to convince stubborn Serbs to leave.

41 posted on 03/21/2004 4:24:05 PM PST by joan
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To: joan
leaving in unguarded and unprotected

leaving them unguarded and unprotected

42 posted on 03/21/2004 4:25:34 PM PST by joan
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To: Makedonski
"He also said that few churches were burnt and the 20 Serbs that got killed just did not hide as the rest."

So if people are not good at hiding, it's their fault if they get killed by a mob?

43 posted on 03/21/2004 4:28:26 PM PST by joan
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To: joan
well that seems to be the case.

Anyway it seems that NATO is supervising the ethnic cleansing.

I think they have realised that the politics in the Balkans have shifted against them with Djindjich and Trajkovski gone and people voting against their "democratic" parties.

So they are trying to force a solution by force of arms (i.e. terrorism).

If Kosovo announces independence and the West recognises this independence any try by Serbia to itervene would be shown as state invading an independent state and NATO is of course "forced" to defend Kosovo.

It seems that the only mission KFOR had in Kosovo was to defend it from external Serb attack and not to interfare with the internal violence.

However since 5 years ago things have changed.

There is no Milosevic (automatic serb guilt).

There is no Yelstin but Putin.

France was worried about US intentions then now they would be totally against.

Even the Germans might think twice about arguing with the Serbs and to be pro US.

Kosovo is holding only on UK and US. That is it.
44 posted on 03/21/2004 4:51:16 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: FormerLib
Holkeri of Kosovo is already doing it.

He sais only few churches have been burnt.

Anyway Bush will give Kosovo independence. That is the latest unofficial news.
45 posted on 03/21/2004 4:52:46 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: joan
Hey joan remember those Serb kids that got shot up with a machine gun while swimming in a river. How many died?

Was anyone charged for that terrorist act?

Did the Serb population riot and used violence to avenge the deaths??

Here is something else to think about.

Boys drowned -->> violence.

Holkeri tells Albanian leaders to try to stop violence.

Redhzepi (Kosovo premier) sais stop --->> violence stops.

That tells that he is in direct control.

See command and control.

One needs to take out the head of the snake and the snake dies.
46 posted on 03/21/2004 4:56:25 PM PST by Makedonski
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To: Makedonski
A US President can not give independence to Kosovo and Metohija. It is not within his power.

Only Belgrade can grant full soverign rights to one of its provinces. Entire reason FRY defended itself in 1999. UNSCR 1244 enshrined this 4-ever

47 posted on 03/22/2004 4:20:59 AM PST by vooch
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To: vooch; Makedonski
A US President can not give independence to Kosovo and Metohija.

Rewarding the KLA terrorists (or even suggesting it) in this manner would be hundreds of times worse that Spain's capitulation to al-Qaeda after the Madrid murders.

48 posted on 03/22/2004 7:37:27 AM PST by FormerLib ("Homosexual marriage" is just another route to anarchy.)
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To: FormerLib
mega ditto
49 posted on 03/22/2004 1:35:02 PM PST by vooch
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To: vooch
of course he can not.

All he needs to do is do nothing while the Albanians take of the situation on the ground.

Part of 1244 is the return of Serbian troops to guard religious and cultural sites.

If there are no religious or cultural sites (burned down) then that part of the resolution is no longer relavant.

When the UN mission is reviewed for renew the facts on the ground would suggest that there is no need to renew it.

If Kosovo is 95% pure Albanian then there is no reason not to give it independent status.

Similar situation in Macedonia. Only the Albanian houses have been rebuilt. Places like Aracinovo are pure now and when ever a Macedonian house is burnt NATO calls it a criminal act and not political.

Albanian terrorists from Macedonia sentenced in court of law in Macedonia late last year have given themselves up to American forces in Kosovo and 2 months after they still haven't been sent to Macedonia to serve their sentence.

Why?

50 posted on 03/22/2004 3:09:55 PM PST by Makedonski
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