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Withholding Identity From a Law Officer: Your Right or Not?
Associated Press ^ | March 23, 2004 | Gina Holland

Posted on 03/23/2004 6:10:30 AM PST by wallcrawlr

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Do you have to tell the police your name? Depending on how the Supreme Court rules in a case before it Monday, the answer could be the difference between arrest and freedom.

The court took up the appeal of a Nevada cattle rancher who was arrested after he told a deputy that he had done nothing wrong and didn't have to reveal his name or show an ID during an encounter on a rural highway four years ago. Larry Hiibel, 59, was prosecuted under a state statute that requires people to identify themselves to the police if stopped "under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime."

The case will clarify police powers in the post-Sept. 11 era, determining whether officials can demand to see identification whenever they deem it necessary.

Nevada Senior Deputy Attorney General Conrad Hafen told the justices that "identifying yourself is a neutral act" that helps police in their investigations and doesn't -- by itself -- incriminate anyone.

But if that is allowed, several justices asked, what will be next? A fingerprint? Telephone number? E-mail address?

"The government could require name tags, color codes," Hiibel's attorney, Robert Dolan, told the court.

At the heart of the case is an intersection of the Fourth Amendment, which protects people from unreasonable searches, and the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Hiibel claims both of those rights were violated.

Justice Antonin Scalia, however, expressed doubts. He said officers faced with suspicious people need authority to get the facts. "I cannot imagine any responsible citizen would have objected to giving the name," Scalia said.

Justices are revisiting their 1968 decision that said police may briefly detain someone on reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing, without the stronger standard of probable cause, to get more information. Nevada argues that during such brief detentions, known as Terry stops after the 1968 ruling, people should be required to answer questions about their identities.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor pointed out that the court has never given police the authority to demand someone's identification without probable cause that they have done something wrong. But she also acknowledged that police might want to run someone's name through computers to check for a criminal history.

Hiibel was approached by a deputy in May 2000 next to a pickup truck parked off a road near Winnemucca, Nev. The officer, called to the scene because of a complaint about arguing between Hiibel and his daughter, asked Hiibel 11 times for his identification or his name. He refused, at one point saying, "If you've got something, take me to jail."

Hiibel was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of resisting arrest. He was fined $250.

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: hiibel; id; privacy; scotus; yourpapersplease
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I'll take people's word (here) for the cop not asking the right questions. You have to know how to talk to people, I believe in treating people with respect and dignity.

You take the word of a bunch of guys that have read an error-filled article? Go view the tape. The cop was not perfect but he was dealing with an a$$hole who showed the signs of drinking.

41 posted on 03/23/2004 7:06:50 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: American_Centurion
I agree with you.

It is just my observation that people are ruder than they used to be.

42 posted on 03/23/2004 7:07:06 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: connectthedots
How can one be guilty of resisting arrest if they aren't also convicted of another crime?

Because the article is wrong.

43 posted on 03/23/2004 7:07:26 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: connectthedots
How can one be guilty of resisting arrest if they aren't also convicted of another crime?

That's something I have always wondered about.

44 posted on 03/23/2004 7:07:55 AM PST by muggs
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To: JackRyanCIA
If you have done nothing wrong, why should someone be able to hustle you? Many cops love to hustle people. Makes them feel powerful.

Go view the tape and then come back and say that the cop was hustling this a$$hole who had been reported to have been hitting his daughter, displayed signs of drinking and had 'parked' his car via a four-wheel slide on the side of the road at an angle.

45 posted on 03/23/2004 7:10:15 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: cinFLA
Go view the tape.

Link?

46 posted on 03/23/2004 7:10:16 AM PST by Sweet Land
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To: cinFLA
Not only that, the guy DEMANDED to be handcuffed. That would have freaked me out immediately. I would have slapped the cuffs on him just to comply with his request.
47 posted on 03/23/2004 7:10:27 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: cinFLA
I saw part of the tape. I said I would have locked him up also, from what I saw. Looked like plenty to go with there. But I haven't seen the whole tape.
48 posted on 03/23/2004 7:10:38 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: American_Centurion
never did he say he wasn't the driver

I haven't seen the whole tape yet. But, I have read enough about the case to know that the original complaint the officer received identified the truck as being driven by a female. And his daughter was still behind the wheel when the officer pulled up.

49 posted on 03/23/2004 7:11:05 AM PST by green iguana
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I don't know if it's a larger percentage of the pop. that's ruder, or if it's just that since the pop. has grown so drastically that the percentage remains the same but we see more of them.

Either way you cut it there are more rude people out there. It just seems to fit that LEO's have to deal with them most, criminals tend to have bad manners.
50 posted on 03/23/2004 7:11:31 AM PST by American_Centurion (Daisy-cutters trump a wiretap anytime - Nicole Gelinas)
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Whatever I felt like at the moment.

There's the problem. Are you a cop?

51 posted on 03/23/2004 7:12:35 AM PST by TankerKC (Clogged Arteries and Still Smilin'!)
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To: Wolfie
Slam dunk. Halt! Show papers!
52 posted on 03/23/2004 7:12:56 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Sweet Land
Here is a link to the tape but beware. The site is a propaganda piece belonging to Hiibel.

http://www.papersplease.org/hiibel/video.html
53 posted on 03/23/2004 7:13:35 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: green iguana
I may have been fooled by the fact that the other officers later pulled her out of the passenger side, I guess in retrospect it's possible to pull a driver out of that side in a pickup, but until now that never crossed my mind.
54 posted on 03/23/2004 7:13:45 AM PST by American_Centurion (Daisy-cutters trump a wiretap anytime - Nicole Gelinas)
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To: cinFLA
who had been reported to have been hitting his daughter

He was not reported to have been hitting his daughter. His daughter was hitting him. Try to get your facts right before you spew off calling people names.

55 posted on 03/23/2004 7:14:26 AM PST by green iguana
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To: TankerKC
18 years.
56 posted on 03/23/2004 7:15:43 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: green iguana
I haven't seen the whole tape yet. But, I have read enough about the case to know that the original complaint the officer received identified the truck as being driven by a female. And his daughter was still behind the wheel when the officer pulled up.

And just where did you read this? On Hiibel's web-site! Ha Ha ha!

57 posted on 03/23/2004 7:15:51 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: Redbob; Wolfie
Fascist is as fascist does...

People love licking boots.
58 posted on 03/23/2004 7:15:57 AM PST by Veracious Poet (Cash cows are sacred in America...GOT MILKED???)
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To: Sweet Land
It's important to distinguish between 'constitutional' and 'civil rights'....and I sincerely doubt most gov't. bueaucrats know the difference between the two.
59 posted on 03/23/2004 7:17:13 AM PST by american spirit
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To: cuz_it_aint_their_money
Sorry, the right to remain silent is in the 5th Amendment. Ever hear of "pleading the 5th"? It's the part that says that a person may not be compelled to be a witness against himself in a criminal case.
60 posted on 03/23/2004 7:17:14 AM PST by Defiant (The bane of Spain is Moslems once again.)
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