Reporter Tom Lipscomb Slated For Scarborough Country Tonight - VVAW Assassination Story Alert

MSNBC | March 22, 2004

[Hon]

Intrepid reporter, Thomas H. Lipscomb, is scheduled to appear on MSNBC's Scarborough Country this evening.

Check local listings for the time in your area. I believe it aired at 9pm in the east.

Kerry's whereabouts during the Vietnam Veterans Against The War's Novemeber 1971 Kansas City meeting should be the topic of conversation.

(This is the meeting where the proposal to kill pro-war Congressional leaders was discussed and voted upon by the VVAW.)

[Hon]

I hope it is all right to post this in extended news.

[Mo1]

FYI Ping

[onyx]

FYI ping answered and forwarded.
Thanks Mo!

[grellis]

The show is on at ten so nobody has to miss Hannity and Colmes.

[Hon]

"The show is on at ten so nobody has to miss Hannity and Colmes."

Oops. Thanks. (I was actually told by somebody who should have known.)

I haven't watched the show for a while I guess.

[doug from upland]

No cable here, so lets's see some good reports.

[Hon]

The show is on in the east. Looks like Lipscomb will be up in the second slot.

The tease was: "Did Kerry lie?"

[Hon]

Up next. Scarborough said: after the break, did Kerry participate in a meeting about assassinating United States Senators?

[Hon]

I guess nobody watches MSNBC.

[Hon]

Lipscomb went through the story and brought it up to date. Scar is now asking Buchanan whether the cover-up will be worse than the crime.

[Hon]

PJB points out that Kerry has lied about this, even to his biographer. (Should be plural.)

Why doesn't Kerry want us to think he was at Kansas City?

[OKSooner]

BTTT

[kristinn]

Thanks for posting the notice about this. Just turned it on. Lawrence O'Donnell is one unhappy propagandist.

[Hon]

Dem uber shill Larry O'Donnell is busy trying to eat up time and talk over people so that the matter can't be discussed.

He called Lipscomb a liar for saying there was a plot. Says it was one nut who was shouted down--meaning Camil.

Lipscomb pointed out that the head of Veterans For Kerry has leaned on (and lied to) witnesses to get them to back-track on their stories.

[Hon]

"Lawrence O'Donnell is one unhappy propagandist."

He's not very good is he? You'd think with all of his practice he'd have the routine down.

Shouting until you're red in the face doesn't do much to convince people you know the truth.

He of course doesn't have a clue. But he's shouting just the same. It's what he's paid to do.

[jwalsh07]

Going public.

[alnick]

Lawrence O'Donnell is one unhappy propagandist.

He was having conniption fits. Is O'Donnell supposed to be an objective reporter or is he an opinion guy like Hannity or Colmes?

[woodyinscc]

Lawrence O'Donnell, Clinton apologist, leftist partisan, and now an opportunist of the highest order. He now proudly calls himself part of the Hollywood elite, because of his advisory and writing roll on West Wing.

[Hon]

This crazy guy O'Donnell talks about was one of closest pals in the VVAW, Scott Camil.

As I've often mentioned, Kerry parroted his testimony before the Winter Soldier Investigation to the Senate. Camil also was slated to appear alongside Kerry (instead of Hubbard) when he debated the war on Dick Cavett. But the other pro-war vet didn't show so it was just Kerry versus O'Neill.

And of course they took Camil's plan very seriously. Moreover Camil became an even more major force in the VVAW from then on--leading the way for the VVAW pretty much from then on.

[Torie]

I am listening to the show now. Right now it is about Oprah and Howard Stern, and who is the most risque. Yuck. Drivel.

[kristinn]

O' Donnell's a Rat hack of the worst sort. Think Lanny Davis without the 'charm.'

[Hon]

"When Camil returned to Florida from Kansas City, despite his failure to get anv of his programs adopted, he took with him a goodly measure of respect from many coordinators and much of the membership." --Gerald Nicosia

O'Donnell needs to try shutting his mouth and maybe studying up on the subject. Camil was a major force in the VVAW before his assassination proposal--and even more of a force after it.

[kristinn]

He's warning the rest of the media off this story with this routine. That was his job tonight, IMO.

[jwalsh07]

Did you catch any of the hearings today?

I heard a bit and the bit I heard had Bob Kerrey rising to the top. Thank the Lord the wrong Kerry is running against President Bush.

Clarke is skewered, he is caught in more lies than Clinton and Gore combined. He's finished. Not even the New York Times will be able to rehabilitate this clown.

Positively scary that men like this are charged with protecting my grandchildren. I think I'll buy more guns.

[Torie]

Unfortunately no. I had to work. But I might catch some on CSPAN if the wacko congreesmen stop droning on in some late night session. Delahunt (a congressman near you that represents the most GOP district in Massachussets, LOL) was ranting about something. I did not wait to find out what before switching the channel.

[Hon]

"He's warning the rest of the media off this story with this routine. That was his job tonight, IMO."

You're probably right. At the very least it was a try-out for the "let's just laugh it off defense."

Can you imagine if a Republican Presidential candidate had been present at such a meeting and then his flaks tried to laugh it off?

What was Trent Lott's crime against humanity again?

[jwalsh07]

Good move.

I'm feeling better about the elcetion, Dubyas machine is cranking on all cylinders. Clarke has gone from bombshell to dud in the blink of an eye.

Check out Bob Kerrey questioning Madeline Albright if you can. A thing of beauty. Kerrey was tough on everybody but he was tough with a goal in mind.

Can't help liking the guy.

[tirednvirginia]

Does anyone know where LO'D got his info that it was just one nut in the group who proposed the assassinations? He sounded like he had been there. I never heard him say how he was so sure of this.

It did sound as if he was putting out the talking points for the media so they will not jump on it.

[Hon]

"Clarke is skewered, he is caught in more lies than Clinton and Gore combined. He's finished. Not even the New York Times will be able to rehabilitate this clown."

The trouble is Clarke's lies (for money) got imprinted on the majority of the audience. It's a fact now. It doesn't matter if it is untrue.

As one of the variations on the saying goes: a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has a chance to put on its pants.

The Dems feast off of that phenomenon.

[Pharmboy]

Welcome, Hon. It is fine to post this in extended news.

[Hon]

"Does anyone know where LO'D got his info that it was just one nut in the group who proposed the assassinations? He sounded like he had been there. I never heard him say how he was so sure of this."

I'm sure it was from a quick phone call to Kerry's staff when he found out what the subject of tonight's show was going to be.

Before that call, O'Donnell probably didn't even know that Kerry was involved in anti-Vietnam war activities.

O'Donnell is just a Monica Lewinsky, without Lewinsky's quiet dignity.

[kristinn]

I posed a question to Howard Kurtz in an online Washington Post chat Monday about the establishment press ignoring this story. The Post or Kurtz declined to accept the question for the discussion.

[gswilder]

Yea, Kerry was trying to look impartial. However, when the final report comes out, Bush will get 80% of the blame and 99% of the media coverage. Mark my word. I know we are all sitting here saying Clark is crashing and burning. And he is. But for 75% of the public, I am afraid they are buying a good bit about this. I think Bush's poll numbers will drop by next week.

[altura]

Lipscomb was very convincing. Buchanan also.

The West Wing boy Larry tried valiantly to laugh everything off and make it seem overblown and ridiculous, but it wasn't flying.

A couple of very damaging points. Kerry denies it.

One witness comes forward originally to say he remembered Kerry being there. An attempt is made to intimidate that witness (He receives a call from a Kerry guy suggesting that he rethink his memory).

Then when 6 or 7 witnesses come forth, it's oh, yeah, maybe I was there.

Very Clintonesque.

And WHY does Kerry have the guy who planned the assassination of the Senators on his payroll??

That, I just don't understand.

[altura]

Plus now the dems in congress are furious that Bush dares to defend himself. (on the Clarke matter)

No, I am not kidding.

[Hon]

"One witness comes forward originally to say he remembered Kerry being there. An attempt is made to intimidate that witness (He receives a call from a Kerry guy suggesting that he rethink his memory)."

Musgrave wasn't the only witness who Hurley pressured. He also leaned on Randy Barnes. After a couple of phone calls, suddenly Randy Barnes couldn't remember whether Kerry was there or not any more. But even since then he has said that he was there.

You're right, it is very Clinton-esque. Too bad they didn't get these wintesses to sign sworn affidavits (like they did with Lewinsky) to then be embarrassed when the FBI files prove them all to be liars.

Maybe they'll be able to laugh it off, too, like with Monica. It's just about sex. It's just about killing Senators.

[ironman]

I saw the entire segment. There is no indication that O'Donnell has done one bit of orginal reporting on the matter yet he is so sure there was no plot, vs. Lipscomb's who really dug into the details. This story has leggs.

[jwalsh07]

I don't agree. The only people who haven't decided yet are the suburban fence sitters, for the most part a highly educated group who are capable of nuanced thought.

We'll see.

[kabar]

The emphasis should be placed on the radicalism of the VVAW rather than trying to nail down Kerry's knowledge of or participation in an assassination plot. Kerry belonged to this organization for about 2 years. He has a lot to answer for in terms of what the VVAW said and did during this period--not to mention the malcontents and misfits who were members.

[Hon]

"The emphasis should be placed on the radicalism of the VVAW rather than trying to nail down Kerry's knowledge of or participation in an assassination plot."

Why not both?

"Kerry belonged to this organization for about 2 years."

Probably longer than that. He certainly let the media think he was still the head of the VVAW up until at least January 1973.

"He has a lot to answer for in terms of what the VVAW said and did during this period"

Such as negotiating with the enemy during a war. (Kerry and other VVAW members met and negotiated with the VC and NVN in Paris in 1971.)

Kerry Met With Viet Cong And North Vietnamese In Paris In 1971
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1091943/posts

"not to mention the malcontents and misfits who were members."

You mean his "band of brothers"? LOL

One Of John Kerry's "Band Of Brothers"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092936/posts

[Torie]

Well I watched Kerrey drill Albright, and point out the emperor had no clothes. What Albright was saying, between the lines, is that the political climate at the time did not afford a hunting license to tell the Taliban that they had a choice between their own continued existence or that of Bin Laden. It was going to be one of the other, and sooner rather than later. Albright admitted Kerrey in hindsight was right in advocating declaring war, even while observing earlier that getting tough would have "aggravated" America's relationship with the Muslim world.

Why did the political climate not afford a hunting license? The fish rots from the top. Clinton did not exercise leadership to change the political climate. Clinton enjoyed too much the laissez les bon temps roulez regime. He had no appetite to be a war president. It simply was not within him. One can't be loved by everyone and a warrior at the same time. He wanted to do the minimum to get by, not what was required. Clinton disliked wallowing in unpleasantness. It was hard wiring with him. Maybe it was his dysfunctional family history, maybe it was something else. I don't know.

That is my sense of it, psychobabble though it may be.

[rwfromkansas]

I think both angles are important. I left a message on Nicosia's machine for an interview request. I doubt I will get one, but thought I would give it a shot. If anybody bothers to accept an interview, I will be trying to go for both angles because it seems to me that both are pretty important.

[prairiebreeze]

And WHY does Kerry have the guy who planned the assassination of the Senators on his payroll??

I can only think of two possibilities and the first is a stretch. Could Kerry have guessed this story might surface and by putting Scott Camil on his team hope to create the impression he isn't worried about the story, knows it's false....IOW he hires the guy that could do him real damage as a reverse psychology.

Or else Kerry is an arrogant liberal damfool who doesn't think that there are many consequences to anything he does, which is entirely believable.

Hon, I don't know if you heard that John Gibson had Randy Barnes, the MO Kerry coordinator and ex-VVAW member on yesterday too. Barnes basically used the talking points that Larry O. used....no truth to the story, only one guy came up with idea which was immediately hooted down etc.

A comment on this blog points out their lie though and I'll post it here:

John Gibson, interviewing a VVAW member who was at the 1971 KC meeting on Fox just moments ago, asked if Kerry was there. The gentleman said he did not remember Kerry being at the meeting at all.

But Gibson's redirect won the day. Gibson outlined the Phoenix Program (a military operation aimed at knocking off North Vietnamese leaders) and talked about Scott Camil's suggestion that VVAW pursue a domestic Phoenix operation to kill US Senators supporting the war. Gibson asked the vet (I didn't catch his name) how Kerry reacted to the plan. The vet said Kerry didn't like the plan and loudly argued against it. He thereby accidentally proved that Kerry was there at the meeting, and that he (the vet Gibson was interviewing) was not telling the truth when he said he did not recall Kerry being at the meeting at all. He did recall Kerry's presence enough to remember details about the argument, he just lied about it when asked directly earlier in the inverview.

Prairie

[kabar]

I think we can do both, i.e., make known Kerry's specific involvement with the assassination plot and expose the activities, statmeents, and membership of the VVAW. What I fear is that Kerry will try to focus on the validity of one specific charge concerning his involvement in a plot while the much larger issue of the VVAW is lost. Kerry doesn't want the media to scrutinize the VVAW, an organization Kerry played a major role in, because the public will learn how radical the VVAW really was and its links to other extremists.

Thanks for the links. I have been following all of the research work you have done unearthing Kerry's antiwar activities. Great job.

[backhoe]

Cross-linked:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1104239/posts

Kansas City Kerry- "The Phoenix Project"
various FR links | 03-24-04 | The Heavy Equipment Guy

[OKSooner]

BTTT

[BushisTheMan]

I guess nobody watches MSNBC.

I do (Joe Scarborough only) because it's at the same time as Greta. I can't stand Greta and all the trial crap.

Lots of good information last night. Laurence O'Donnell (the outspoken and token RAT) tried to shut down free speech by saying it was only one nut spouting a nutty opinion.

But Tom Lipscomb did a great job defending his story. So well in fact that Laurence called him some name (I missed exactly what) but Laurence got quite nasty at this point. Laurence looked like the idiot he is.

My question: Why does Joe have Laurence O'Donnell on regularly anyway, along with the nut Jewish guy who hates the Passion? Oh, I guess because they both look and sound so stupid when they talk. Good thinking there Joe!

[Hon]

"So well in fact that Laurence called him some name (I missed exactly what) but Laurence got quite nasty at this point."

He called Lipscomb a liar, which is pretty preposterous since Lipscomb was only reporting material that was in two books about the VVAW and what he has been told by witnessses at the KC meeting--not to mention the FBI files, which placed Kerry there.

"My question: Why does Joe have Laurence O'Donnell on regularly anyway, along with the nut Jewish guy who hates the Passion? Oh, I guess because they both look and sound so stupid when they talk."

Yeah, I suspect it is to give conservatives an easy target. O'Donnell is shallow and seemingly quite stupid. He's also clearly lazy. (He didn't bother to study up on this issue, for instance.)

These shows thrive on conflict and they have to find a liberal who is so full of himself he doesn't realize he is just there to be a punching bag.