There is NO DEAL says, Arnold Schwarzenegger!

www.ktkz.com | March 23, 2004 | Eric Hogue

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

News from the "Belly of the Beast", the Governor's office is reporting that there is "NO DEAL" with Gil Cedillo on SB1160. I have confirmed reports that Arnold has NOT agreed to anything...and what he has mentioned as a possibility is too strict for the taste and liking of Cedillo and the Democrats.

Plus...there was a report that 12 Republicans were ready to sign this 'piece of legislation' (that never was/is)...well I discivered today that the truth is...the Democrats don't have enough votes to bring this (if it was an authentic committee draft, it's not!) to a count in the Assembly. They have a majority and they can't bring themselves to face another defeat on an issue like this!

I hate to say I told you so...but...

Now, stop supporting the Democrats 'attack Arnold' campaign, as well as their effort to eat at the conservative vote in the GOP for California. They have a problem with passion surrounding John Kerry - Don't let them create appathy for the GOP vote.

Stop carrying the water for Gil Cedillo, Art Torres, Fabian Nunez and John Burton! Support the new administration and its goal, while supporting Bush for '04 in California!

I'm a believer, are you?

[68 grunt]

...there are a few simpleminded cowards who continue to harass others for voting for the only man who stood a chance of defeating cruz bustamante.

You shouldn't refer to them as cowards ;^)

[BibChr]

Me: "As many of you know, Eric's got excellent creds. Eric's show birthed the recall."

n and v: "Ummm, no. Lee Rogers/Melanie Morgan's 5-9 AM show on 560 KSFO."

Nope; first signatures gathered as a consequence of Eric's show.

Eric?

Dan

[CheneyChick]

No - not back - FAR from it. Just trying to keep up with the news in CA! This topic is always good for a laugh and a reminder of the fun days during the campaign.

Cheers, CC :)

[null and void]

Re post #48, Sorry Eric, would have pinged you had I known you were a FReeper.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: No one has attacked you personally or otherwise.

I was remiss in not making it clear that I was not responding to personal attacks on me. You've read the comments defending the governor. So have I. I have also heard local (California) talk radio virtually 24/7, I'm retired.

I am referring to the mainstream California Republican "spin" accusing us for being "dupes" of dem Rats, among other things, and that we are endangering the President's re-election and the governor's status.

Did you read any of the sources I provided and do you believe that we wear "tin foil" hats and if so could you give me a hint why? Thanks.

[Tempest]

If we stick toghether we can.

[vikingchick]

Call me or email me within 72 hours of your return. :) We miss you around here!

[muleskinner]

Speaking of Rogers and Morgan, she wouldn't be one of the Arnold bashers you mentioned, would she? I don't want to start a food fight or nuthin', but...:)

[Sabertooth]

Because he has to negotiate with the majority of Democrats in Sacramento! Because he cannot offer a flat NO due to 14 other states having them legally and Bush offering a guest workers program...he needs to maintain the popular status in this liberal state, because he is turning this state around when it comes to financial, attitudes, bi-partison votes and party growth/direction...emough?

No. Let's take them one at a time...

Because he has to negotiate with the majority of Democrats in Sacramento!

So, he's lying?

Or was he giving his honest position when he explained that his concerns were insurance and background checks?

Because he cannot offer a flat NO due to 14 other states having them legally and Bush offering a guest workers program...

If 14 other states give DLs to Illegals, that means 35 don't. On top of that, Californians oppose them.

Sure he can say no.

Because he cannot offer a flat NO due to 14 other states having them legally and Bush offering a guest workers program...

Schwarzenegger was on record during the campaign as supporting McCain's S. 1461, another so-called "guest-worker program" that was cited by "Republican officials" in this Washington Post story leaking President Bush's imminent proposal for an Illegal Alien Amnesty by another name, which he announced on January 7th.

In addition, Schwarzenegger's support for some form of CDL for Illegals predates President Bush's proposal (see the quotes posted to you at #31), therefore the latter can't be a cause of the former.

he needs to maintain the popular status in this liberal state,

This liberal state passed Proposition #187, Three Strikes, ended bilingual ed and racial preferences, and defined marriage as one man and one woman.

This liberal state qualified the Save Our License referendum, which Schwarzenegger wouldn't support, yet which remained the only leverage by which he was able to effect the repeal of SB60.

You think Schwarzenegger needs pretend to be open to CDLs for Illegals to maintain popularity?

Why, when CDLs for Illegals are so unpopular?

because he is turning this state around when it comes to financial, attitudes, bi-partison votes and party growth/direction...emough?

Just about enough. You seem to be buying the line that Republican politicians need to pander to the pro-Illegal lobby, or need to appear willing to do so, in order appeal to constituencies that are not traditionally Republican.

The numbers indicate otherwise.

Check out the Vote analysis of Prop. 187, the illegal alien initiative.

Note the huge majorities voting Yes on #187 among Independents (61%), Men (62%), non-Hispanic Whites (64%), Seniors (66%), Conservatives (76%), and Republicans (76%).

Note the majorities in favor of #187 Among Blacks (52%), Asians (52%), Moderates (56%), and College graduates ( 54%), Women (56%).

While these figures are ten years old, and limited to California, it’s remarkable how close they are to current polls of Americans on issues such as welfare or Amnesty for Illegal Aliens.

See post #2 for some of those polls.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Thanks. I no longer live in Carmichael. I live in a tiny farming community north of Sac in Wally Herger's district.

Boy! what a refreshing difference between him and Doug Ose. I'd call Ose's local office and I was the bad guy for being concerned about "undocumented" workers! I don't know if he ever changed his support for ILLEGAL aliens or not.

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

Mark Williams KFBK is the daily attacker of AS!

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

Get ready for the Gil Cedillo campaign of "Arnold lied to me". Cedillo, Torres and others on the left will enjoy spreading this rumor to the minority members of California.

Congratulations to the 'gullible for carrying the water for this "hammer". The Dems will play this into Prop 187 all over again...and the conservative talkers helped with this cause.

Yes, Arnold was talking; but the goal was to 'make the hurdles so high' that the Dems would be the ones who would say no to SB1160.

Not now...now it is Arnold and the Republicans saying no to the DL bill. This will be used by the Dems in the campaign!

Silence would have been golden on this one. The Governor would have never signed this highly controversial bill, but we could have allowed the Dems to think so.

Welcome to political strategy...setting yourself up for the future. The Republicans bashed Arnold and the Democrats have captured a third rail, wedge issue for their services later this year!

[CheneyChick]

You got it!

[muleskinner]

Oh, can't get you or KFBK in the Bay Area. Just listen to KSFO or KGO ,(when Ronn's got his mind right).

[Sabertooth]

Get ready for the Gil Cedillo campaign of "Arnold lied to me". Cedillo, Torres and others on the left will enjoy spreading this rumor to the minority members of California.

Earlier you appeared to advocate that it was shrewd for Schwarzengger not to reject CDLs for Illegal outright.

If he had done so, how would Cedillo be able to say he lied?

Only by leaving the door open to CDLs for Illegals has the door been left open for Cedillo to say that AS lied.

Congratulations to the 'gullible for carrying the water for this "hammer". The Dems will play this into Prop 187 all over again...and the conservative talkers helped with this cause.

Actually, it was conservatives who went soft on #187 that aided and abetted the Dems. The #187 backlash is a media myth. Tough stances against Illegals cut as strongly for the GOP as do pro Second Amendment and pro death penatly positions.

Democrat strength on those issues was always a bluff.

Not now...now it is Arnold and the Republicans saying no to the DL bill. This will be used by the Dems in the campaign!

Good. It will save us money on advertising.

Silence would have been golden on this one. The Governor would have never signed this highly controversial bill, but we could have allowed the Dems to think so.

Now you're back to setting them up to say "Arnold lied."

Welcome to political strategy...setting yourself up for the future. The Republicans bashed Arnold and the Democrats have captured a third rail, wedge issue for their services later this year!

Running scared in front of the Democrats on issues that cut for Republicans isn't "strategy."

That third rail belings to us. Let the Dems wail about it all they want.

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

Tooth...you are forgetting one thing. AS negotiated with Cedillo to repeal SB60 when he was elected. Gil dance then, so AS needed to offer a return conversation now. THis is called political dialogue. I'm assuming you prefer the McClintock way of negotiations.

Yes, the state supported Prop 187, but the "Beast" is NOT the state! The "Beast" is majority LIBERAL Democrat. Arnold lives in the beast, not with the vote...yet! He needs to be bi-partison as much as he can. We cannot have a stalemate during the budget or the financial discussions/decisions.

Leasership is in influence...not manipulation or 'dictatorship' (My way or the highway). Arnold is influencing hundreds of people everyday. They will vote and they may (will) help with the flood to the polls to support GOP, Jones and Bush!

On your poll...what year was Prop 187? What has happened to the GOP since the 'hishandling' of Prop 187...not the content of 187, but the mishandling of the messaging and the rhetoric - welcome to the "son of 187" with this issue. The Dems are wringing their hands tonight with this gift, as well as the media!

Thanksd for the dialogue!

[Tempest]

Rather insightful commentary. I was starting to suspect something of that nature as well.

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

You can get me at www.ktkz.com with a great audio stream!

[Sabertooth]

Tooth...you are forgetting one thing. AS negotiated with Cedillo to repeal SB60 when he was elected. Gil dance then, so AS needed to offer a return conversation now. THis is called political dialogue. I'm assuming you prefer the McClintock way of negotiations.

I'm forgetting nothing. AS had no negotiating position save that afforded him by the Save Our License referendum petitions.

I would have vastly preferred the ballot box. We'd have destroyed the Dems in the fight over SB60, with a lot of crossover votes.

Arnold lives in the beast, not with the vote...yet! He needs to be bi-partison as much as he can. We cannot have a stalemate during the budget or the financial discussions/decisions.

Then he should have let the referendum go to the March ballot, and let the electorate sock it to the Democrats a second time.

Leasership is in influence...not manipulation or 'dictatorship' (My way or the highway). Arnold is influencing hundreds of people everyday. They will vote and they may (will) help with the flood to the polls to support GOP, Jones and Bush!

You believe Jones and Bush will get more votes in November because AS won't reject CDLs for Illegals outright?

On your poll...what year was Prop 187? What has happened to the GOP since the 'hishandling' of Prop 187...not the content of 187, but the mishandling of the messaging and the rhetoric - welcome to the "son of 187" with this issue. The Dems are wringing their hands tonight with this gift, as well as the media!

#187 was in 1994. If you'd clicked the link, you'd have seen the poll I referenced at post #2 was from March 2003. The point was to show how Illegals are no more popular now, across many demographic groups, than they were in 1994.

The Dems should be wringing their hands, and we should be rubbing ours.

Thanksd for the dialogue!

You're welcome. Thanks to you as well.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Back when you were a prime mover and leader of the recall the afternoon and evening hosts on that "other" station ridiculed the idea of a recall -- though the evening guy claimed his show started the whole thing! Go figure.

I wrote a scathing email to the evening guy while he was on the air. I pointed out that I have been a fan of radio talk since the 1950s -- 1940s if you count Baby Snooks, Fibber McGee, et al.

I told him he was insulting the hundreds of citizens out gathering signatures. That was before Issa. IMO I told him that his comments were the most disgusting things I have ever heard on radio besides the worst of leftist babble. Was it his employer's wishes that he and the other guy trash a local competitor, I asked. I swear I heard his demeanor change. I am sure he read it.

I have heard some of your show. I can darn near say the same things about you. Rail all you want but we will still oppose drivers' licenses for ILLEGALS and any Republican who disagrees. We are citizens not Party hacks. We will not vote for dem Rats but we will not kowtow to the Party.

Yes, I heard you say you oppose DLs for ILLEGALS too.

The son of Prop 187 would be a good way to stop all this crap. But, 187 is the other guy's game, huh?

Yes, I read your reasoning for opposing 187, I had the courtesy to read them. I wish someone cuold explain how 187 "unpopularity" can be anything other than leftist spin. In an earlier post I provided figures from the 1994 election and asked the same question. 187 caused Republican defeats? How? Why did mainstream Republican candidates avoid conservative talk radio prior to 2000? (At least in N. California) Avoiding conservatives hurt them, not 187. IMO.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Some say that most Legislature Republicans have pledged "no" votes. No super majority is possible in that case. That's critical because I believe that a super majority would make the bill "referendum proof." In other words citizens could not overturn it. A bill could still pass with a simple majority, however.

The new Prop 187 is all the more important. Thanks to the mainstream Republicans' hysterical reaction to Americans expressing their conserns about DLs and the governor's own statements we just might get enough signatures but it's going to be close.

I am hearing from Americans who hold the right to express their opinions dear that the governor is likely to state unequivocally that he does not share Cedillo's optimism. For anyone who's been following this rationally that is not surprising.

The governor and California legislature Republicans have been swamped by public reaction. It's called citizens' right to demand our elected representatives' position on critical matters be stated clearly.

[FairOpinion]

Did you miss this?

[FairOpinion]

I am so glad you are posting these facts!

[Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ]

I'm not in opposition to 187...nor am I in opposition to SB1160...my point IS strategy!

Why are we allowing Gil Cedillo and the Left to establish the debate, the negotiation issues and the propaganda.

I'm NOT anti-187, nor anti-SB1160...I'm anti-bash Arnold before we have reason to do so!

That other talker is still mad at Arnold and the recall so he is trying to get ratings while carrying water for the Dems!

Read closer and stay focused! Thanks!

[FairOpinion]

It is sad -- some people claim to be conservatives, yet, they are knowingly helping the Democrats.

[FairOpinion]

Some people just can't see the big picture, they get so stuck in their single issue.

"Duf Sundheim, chairman of the state Republican Party, said it is "unclear" whether Prince will qualify his measure. But Sundheim said the GOP has more important political concerns.

"Right now what the party is focusing on is the re-election of President Bush," he said. "We have a real opportunity to pick up legislative seats - especially in the Assembly. And we're working to make sure Bill Jones has the support he needs in his challenging race for the U.S. Senate."


http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/ca/story/8599050p-9527319c.html

Republicans should keep their eye on the ball and focus on re-electing President Bush and electing as many Republicans as possible.

[calcowgirl]

Did you miss this?

No, I didn't. But I don't know, nor have I ever heard of Mr. Hogue, nor have I seen any reputable news source print anything of the kind.

Did you miss this?

Schwarzenegger January Interview with Univision:

Schwarzenegger: We are right now in the middle of working very hard with Senator Cedillo. My staff and his staff. Everyone is working together. And we are absolutely positive that we will come up with a great bill. With his help and with my team's help, I think we will work it out. So there's, uh, really a good move forward.

Interviewer: How would you deal with more conservative members of the legislature...?

Schwarzenegger: Again, it's one of those things where we all have to get together and see that this is a good idea and this is the way to move forward. So, I am talking to my Republican friends all the time about it, and also to my Democratic friends. We will do it.

Click HERE to Listen to the AudioTape

---------------------------

Washington Times, 3/02/04

"Our staffs have met, and they're working on this together,"

said Vincent Salido, spokesman for the Republican governor

Arnold seeks to revamp license bill

[calcowgirl]

"Duf Sundheim, chairman of the state Republican Party, said it is "unclear" whether Prince will qualify his measure. But Sundheim said the GOP has more important political concerns.

When will Sundheim learn to walk and chew gum at the same time?

A couple of weeks to support Prince would help his reputation.
He has until November to help Jones.

[Columbine]

The final proof of the accuracy of the claims that the governor and Republican senators will be in the actual votes and signature on the bill.

I think I've explained what I've read here in numerous threads quite well in my last post.

The message is that it's sad if conservatives are allowing themselves to be worked up by rumors spread by Democrats. We don't know that is the case just yet but it seems very likely.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Thank you for your response.

RE: I'm anti-bash Arnold before we have reason to do so!

I am not a professional writer as all can see. I have explained as best I can that the act of exercising citizens' rights and duties is NOT "bashing" someone.

It's boring as hell but reading my posts -- or better, another poster. Post #4 put it best, "If we just sat quietly, hoping for them to do the right thing...."

Wait until it's time, you say? Don't you read any posts?! Several have quoted the governor including the blog of your buddy, Mr. Weintraub. I am talking about DLs in general not a specific bill.

It don't get no simpler. Why is it so hard to understand?

Maybe you believe that you are talking to Republican Party foot soldiers? I am not one but I will never vote for one of dem Rats.

[My2Cents]

Nice graphic. Isn't "onyx" Latin for "look at me"!?

[My2Cents]

Melanie reminds us daily that she's the "Mother of the Recall." How petty. Who cares?

[My2Cents]

Welcome to the FR flame wars, Eric!

[CurlyDave]

Nope; first signatures gathered as a consequence of Eric's show.

Sorry, but the recall was "birthed" long before the first signatures were gathered.

1. Popular support was raised by Melanie & Lee.

2. The petition was written and then we forced the Secretary of State to approve it in time to get it on a special election. He wanted to either never approve the wording, or delay it until the March primary where all the RATs would come out to vote, but the conservatives would know who their presidential candidate was & would be less motivated. Credit for this one also goes to Melanie and Lee. (BTW this was no small feat. Wording had to be just right and legal, had to be in exactly the right format or Shelley would have rejected it, etc.)

3. Forcing the Secretary of State to approve it in time for the special election was key, and this was definitely Melanie & Lee.

4. Only after steps 1-3 had been completed could the petitions even be circulated.

Eric may have been responsible for the first petitions turned in, but this was not the birth of the recall. I don't doubt that he is a very solid conservative, but give credit where it is due.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "The final proof of the accuracy of the claims that the governor and Republican senators will be in the actual votes and signature on the bill. "

We citizens get no acknowledgment for participating in influencing our representatives -- for steering them away from their first thoughts -- first thoughts that are well documented above as far as the governor is concerned?

No, your other threads (posts) may explain lots, but saying the "actual votes and signature on the bill" will be the final proof is wrong.

Better proof will be the governor's statements over the next few days and compare those statements to his well documented, recorded, taped, whatever statements shown above.

I live in Sacramento. Here's what has just happened. The governor and California legislature Republicans have been swamped by public reaction. It's called citizens' right to demand our elected representatives' position on critical matters be stated clearly.

BTW, Schwarzenegger is scheduled to go to Israel soon. Cruz "I call 'em like I see 'em. Oops!" Bustamante will be governor with full power, is how it used to work here.

RE: The message is that it's sad if conservatives are allowing themselves to be worked up by rumors spread by Democrats. We don't know that is the case just yet but it seems very likely.

Why bother but.. I live here. I go back to Prop 13 and everything in between IT AIN'T THE DEMOCRATS!!

On a germane subject, if you lived in Sacramaento you'd understand about Mr. Houge and that other talk show host and watch this all fit together.

The amusing thing is each has the other's role vis-a-vis the recall. It's fun watching "grown ups." But both are doing a public service while managing their egos and commercial interests.

[onyx]

If not Latin, maybe Greek? :)

[BibChr]

<< Sorry Eric, would have pinged you had I known you were a FReeper. >>

Sometimes starting a thread by reading from the beginning is a GOOD thing.

Dan
(c;

[BibChr]

To "Sabertooth": I'm assuming you prefer the McClintock way of negotiations

Is Eric a quick study, or what?

The other thing is that Sabertooth will always respond, and never (that I've seen) to admit his error. So, at some point, you just have to start throwing your seed onto more fertile soil.

Dan

[BibChr]

I'm sorry right back at you, because I beileve you're mistaken about Morgan being THE Recall Birther.

Eric, got a sec for this?

Dan

[CurlyDave]

Dan:

See this post: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1000097/posts

[BibChr]

Thanks; there have been a lot of mistaken media reports on this. The Sacramento Bee was particularly bad on it. Is Eric's response in that thread?

Dan

[null and void]

LOL! I did! Really! I'm the innocent victim of brain fade, I tell ya!

[CurlyDave]

Dan:

I have not seen a post from Eric.

This is now more a matter of personal curiosity to me than one of burning importance. Eric & Melanie both contributed to the success of the recall.

I would like to hear Eric's take on the issue. I listen to Melanie's show most mornings and whoever claimed she is "constantly" reminding us of her role in the recall is just plain not correct. In the past few months, I have heard her make this claim one time. Admittedly, I do not listen to the whole show every day, but I hear enough of it to know that "constantly" is the wrong word.

Dave

[WilliamofCarmichael]

It is Mr. Hogue who makes SB1160 the issue. He wins on that! I guess so, he’s got no opponent – here. Nevertheless, he opened his show at 0500 crowing about how he put some Freepers in their place.

SB1160 is NOT the issue as far as I can see from reading the replies from Americans opposed to giving driver licenses to ILLEGAL aliens.

The governor's support of giving driver licenses to ILLEGAL aliens IS THE ISSUE, however. SB1160 is just one small wannabe bill.

Mr. Hogue is actually debating the host on that other local station here in Sacramento. He is the one talking about SB1160 and its alleged support. He is saying the things that Mr. Hogue is debating here.

Governor Schwarzenegger unequivocal support of drivers' licenses for "undocumented" workers is sourced throughout this thread. The governor's support of giving driver licenses to ILLEGAL aliens IS THE ISSUE not SB1160. One poster located the audio of his declarations. Others of us posted the usual mundane quotes. Now, if the governor reverses then we citizens have done our duty!

Eric, when you are ready to discuss "political strategy" lets talk about the Republicans’ plan to attract Hispanic voters. Notice I said Hispanic voters. Americans of Hispanic origin are Americans, something that the mainstream Republicans cannot understand. They are just as likely to be turned off by the "Hispanic plan" as we Irish would be outraged by millions of ILLEGAL immigrants from Ireland who will not let go of their Irishness.

That discussion will be very interesting. Who will you mainstream Republicans cast aside? Us "ultra" conservatives or millions of "regularized" aliens?

And Sabertooh, your "The #187 backlash is a media myth" is exactly right. That too would be a nice thread but be advised that Mr. Hogue's good buddy, one of the best and brightest Sacramento Bee brains, Daniel Weintraub has told Mr. Hogue that 187 is bad and Republicans had better be careful.

I would like to know what Mr. Hogue meant by asking "What has happened to the GOP since the 'hishandling' of Prop 187...not the content of 187, but the mishandling of the messaging and the rhetoric" Mr. Weintraub apparently told Mr. Hogue how racist was the manner that Former Gov. Pete Wilson showed his support for Prop 187. BS.

[null and void]

FWIW, There is plenty of credit for the recall to go around.

The original mention of a recall did happen on KSFO, I was listening at the time when the lightbulb went on.

It was a wonderful moment!

BUT,

Without millions of votes we would still be cursing Governor Gray-out.

Without hundreds of thousands of signatures it would have never made it to the ballot.

Without thousands of common citizens circulating petitions we would never have gotten the signatures.

Without the help of scores of talk radio hosts across the state it would have died.

Without Eric, many other talk show hosts wouldn't have gotten on board, and the momentum would never have built to the point where people thought "We can do this!"

Conceived by Melanie and crew, brought to full term at the hands of many.

Fair enough?

[null and void]

Nevertheless, he opened his show at 0500 crowing about how he put some Freepers in their place.

Oh dear! I'm still out of place...

[BibChr]

Mostly true. (c;

I'll say this: around this Godforsaken, brain-dead town, Eric was basically IT. And got precious little credit for it.

Dan

[lewislynn]

Can he help Bring about a California REVOLUTION for GWB in 04....?

The fact you have to ask that Arnold bring a revolution for Bush speaks volumes.

[Sabertooth]

Is Eric a quick study, or what?

Eric addressed a single point I made, and didn't study it well. He misunderstood the purpose of linking the 1994 Proposition #187 results and the 2003 poll results. In every other instance, he begged the question, preferring to answer quickly rather than thoughtfully.

I won't, however, assume he did so by studying your style, BC.

On the other hand, I addressed every one of his to me, catching numerous errors and internal contradicitions, couched in the guise of "strategy."

The other thing is that Sabertooth will always respond, and never (that I've seen) to admit his error.

To admit error, one first to be shown it.

To be shown error, one would first have to see one's points addressed.

Mr. Hogue neglected to address my points.

You, by the way, neglected to address your post about me, to me.

So, at some point, you just have to start throwing your seed onto more fertile soil

Yes, and the fertility of your posts is routinely pungent. Have a seed.

[BibChr]

Q.E.D. So predictable.