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There is NO DEAL says, Arnold Schwarzenegger!
www.ktkz.com | March 23, 2004 | Eric Hogue

Posted on 03/23/2004 4:50:02 PM PST by Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ

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To: BibChr; Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ
So predictable.

Posts without substance from you are precisely that. At least you had the stones to address it to me this time.

Let's see if you can answer a question that Eric Hogue begged:

How do you square the postulated strategery of AS leading the Dems to believe that he was open to signing some form of bill granting CDLs to Illegals -- as demonstrated by numerous public statments by AS cited on this thread, though supposedly Schwarzenegger would never sign any such bill -- with a fear of the Democrats demagoguing the issue by claiming that AS lied to them?

Get ready for the Gil Cedillo campaign of "Arnold lied to me". Cedillo, Torres and others on the left will enjoy spreading this rumor to the minority members of California.

Congratulations to the 'gullible for carrying the water for this "hammer". The Dems will play this into Prop 187 all over again...and the conservative talkers helped with this cause.

Yes, Arnold was talking; but the goal was to 'make the hurdles so high' that the Dems would be the ones who would say no to SB1160.
Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ
03/23/2004 7:59:21 PM PST

Essentially, Hogue is claiming that the Governor is sandbagging the Dems, but that it's vocal opponents to SB 1160 on the right who will be to blame when the Dems blame AS for being deceptive.

This is the state of political strategy in Sacramento?

If this was actually the strategy, whose fault is it that a number of us who've been more vocal opponents of Illegal Alien CDLs have taken Schwarzenegger at his word when he says he wants a bill with background checks?

Schwarzenegger has publicly supported CDLs for Illegals with background checks, and the federal legalization of millions Illegals by way of John McCain's S 1461. We're not supposed to believe him?

And when we do believe him, and respond accordingly, it's our fault if the Democrats accuse of him of lying?

How smart is a strategy that expects one's party to know one is lying so that the other party won't?


101 posted on 03/24/2004 8:16:23 AM PST by Sabertooth (< /Kerry>)
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To: null and void
I listened to just the first few minutes. For the record, no names were mentioned. Mr. Hogue expressed frustration at some of the comments and the Freepers (not a word used on the air) had to be educated by explaining "the strategy."

If "put in their place" is too strong of a connotation for some then I am happy with the above. To me they are equal.

More important Mr. Hogue's argument with that other station continues. I tuned in during the seven o'clock hour for a few minutes and heard Mr. Hogue again ridicule efforts made by hundreds of Californians to contact the governor's office. Something that other talk host urged listeners to do.

The whole scene is cool. During the recall it was that other talk show host ridiculing Mr. Hogue's recall efforts. Egos and economic interests at play. What about what's right, not who's right?

102 posted on 03/24/2004 8:24:47 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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To: Sabertooth
Me: The other thing is that Sabertooth will always respond, and never (that I've seen) to admit his error. So, at some point, you just have to start throwing your seed onto more fertile soil

Sabertooth: [see above]

Me: taking my own advice. Putting Mr. Look-at-me-Look-at-me back on "Ignore."

Dan

103 posted on 03/24/2004 8:29:03 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Yeah.

BTW KSFO just played the audio of Ahhhhhnold responding to questions re 1160 from a Univision reporter.

*sigh* WASS-We Are Soooo Screwed...
104 posted on 03/24/2004 8:50:51 AM PST by null and void (Don't stand idly by and watch your country commit Hairy Kerry!)
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To: BibChr
Me: The other thing is that Sabertooth will always respond, and never (that I've seen) to admit his error. So, at some point, you just have to start throwing your seed onto more fertile soil

Sabertooth: [see above]

Me: taking my own advice. Putting Mr. Look-at-me-Look-at-me back on "Ignore."

You: running from substance back to ad hominems and other fallacies.


105 posted on 03/24/2004 8:52:06 AM PST by Sabertooth (< /Kerry>)
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To: null and void




BTW KSFO just played the audio of Ahhhhhnold responding to questions re 1160 from a Univision

Details?


106 posted on 03/24/2004 8:53:15 AM PST by Sabertooth (< /Kerry>)
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To: Sabertooth
See post #29 on this thread.

He went on and was quite adamant that it was a good bill and would be signed.

damm.
107 posted on 03/24/2004 9:00:48 AM PST by null and void (Don't stand idly by and watch your country commit Hairy Kerry!)
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To: Southack
In January of this year Arnold said he was working on a "great bill" with Cedillo. After a concerted effort by Mark Williams KFBK (Sacramento), two guys at KFI (Los Angeles) and Roger Hedgecock in San Diego, the governor has backpedaled. After Williams broadcast the governor's phone number on the air, his office was inundated with calls. Last week I called the governor's office, along with thousands of other folks, and was told by the staffer the governor didn't know anything about a "deal". Funny, since he talked about one two months ago during a press conference. In fact the question was asked by a reporter for a Latino newspaper. Other callers were told the deal was already done. Still others were told the deal was still in the works. In seems even Arnold's own people were not on the same page.

BTW, I used to listen to Hogue...he's like you. Willing to accept any "R" in the governor's mansion. Yet he claims to be a staunch conservative. You can count on one hand how many people listen to his program in the morning although he, as program manager of his station, has Hugh Hewitt on in the afternoons. Hewitt also likes any "R" in the office but he's a brilliant guy nonetheless. Not so with Hogue. He's annoying, redundant and tends to take credit where none is due. But that's just my own opinion.

108 posted on 03/24/2004 9:56:30 AM PST by blake6900
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To: WilliamofCarmichael; Sabertooth; Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ
Thank you WilliamofCarmichael and Sabertooth for your thorough and thoughtful posts, supported by facts, throughout this thread. This was the second thread initiated by Mr. Hogue within days that attempted to deny any real effort by the Governor in supporting SB 1160. The facts prove otherwise.

Arnold campaigned as an 'outsider', saying that he would not be the 'ordinary' politician. If what Mr. Hogue implies is true, Arnold is even more of a politician than we have seen before (meaning he spins and lies more than the 'ordinary' politician). I guess that makes him an extraordinary politician.

If SB 1160 is ultimately killed, and this is all interim game-playing to demonstrate Arnold's support of immigrants (illegal and legal) and to secure their vote for himself and/or GWB, then perhaps he achieves that myopic objective. But at the same time, he loses trust and support from those who still believe that he supports any Republican values. A Field Poll released September 10, 2003 showed that 83% of Republicans opposed giving licenses to illegal aliens. 84% of those voters supporting Schwarzenegger (from all parties) were also opposed. (Link to Field Poll - PDF File). As Schwarzenegger may gain support from the hispanic community, he will alienate a large proportion of his base.

The Save187 campaign is in its last ditch efforts to gather signatures for its initiative (deadline April 15). In part, their success depends on voters understanding that bills such as SB 1160 are a threat. It appears to me that arguments like Mr. Hogue's are intended to dispel that threat temporarily and to undermine the success of Save187.

Someone on this thread (or the prior Hogue thread) directly asked Mr. Hogue if he had supported the initiative or had signed the petition. There was no response. He also failed to respond to any of my posts to him, which presented facts negating his statements.

Between now and April 15, every time SB 1160 is downplayed by media touts such as Mr. Hogue, people should go gather more signatures for Save187. Petitions for Save187 can be downloaded HERE.

109 posted on 03/24/2004 12:25:12 PM PST by calcowgirl
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To: Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ
What now?
110 posted on 03/24/2004 7:10:26 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: calcowgirl
For the record, for the final time: (1) I signed and supported the repealing of SB60. As a matter of fact, State Senator Rico Oller, the author of the bill to repeal (which was given to him by Arnold), was a weekly guest on my show to push the issue. Nice try!

(2) I was in Ohio for the 1994 Prop 187 event, sorry. But if I were in California then, I would have voted for it as well. Another nice try!

(3) What I'm talking about is "strategy", something knuckledraggers don't understand. You have to understand that there are hired guns, political guns...to attack Arnold 24/7. Gil Cedillo's announcing to Spanish radio that there was a deal was one of those tricks.

Yes, Arnold was talking with Gil - about Gil's bill and ideas - but Arnld NEVER came down from his high hurdle demands...too high for the Dems and too high for Cedillo.

So we have undercot Arnold on this one. He now looks like the guy that walked out on Cedillo and 'lied' (Gil lie in the first place) to the Senator about his negotiations. We had a chance to force the Dems into another corner, but nope - we gave this one up and offered them a 'wedge issue' on a silver platter.

The smiles at the Capitol today on the faces of Art Torres, Fabian Nunez and Gil Cedillo were brighter than the Sacramento sunshine...all becasue they pulled the chain of the conservative core of the GOP and had us attack the newly elected and highly popular Governor.

Let's see though...I guess we have our "principals", but we lost the strategy war on this one! Congrats again!
111 posted on 03/24/2004 8:11:02 PM PST by Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ (1380 KTKZ / 5-9AM Weekdays in Sacramento)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
The Republican Party has mishandled the message surrounding Prop 187, as well as immigration. We talk about issue of threat and fear (correct), but what about taking up the side of those who ARE immigrants and they came legally...187 and other like it, would defend their legal effort as well as their hard work in the labor ladder as Americans. We need to message better. We come across too harsh and we do sound anti-immigrant at times,especially these days! Time to listen to the voice of Tony Quinn who has exposed our heavy handed talk...

...we have a chance to gain thousands of Hispanic and latino voters, but communicating in a way that represents them - not attacks them! Arnold is a major player in this battle, he is an immigrant. Maybe we need to set him up and support him more - rather then tear him apart over a rumor started by Gil Cedillo!
112 posted on 03/24/2004 8:17:57 PM PST by Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ (1380 KTKZ / 5-9AM Weekdays in Sacramento)
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To: Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ; hchutch
I remember some of the Prop. 187-related ads by the Wilson campaign in 1994.

My first thought was that David Duke and Tom Metzger had put the things together.

It was ineptly handled.

113 posted on 03/24/2004 8:24:37 PM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Maj. Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: Eric Hogue 1380 KTKZ
For the record, for the final time: (1) I signed and supported the repealing of SB60. As a matter of fact, State Senator Rico Oller, the author of the bill to repeal (which was given to him by Arnold), was a weekly guest on my show to push the issue. Nice try!

Nice Duck! You answered a question that was not asked. If you read my post... and the one previously addressed to you, I was talking about the CURRENT petition commonly referred to as Save187, or the Save our State Initiative. Have you signed it? Do you support the Initiative? Will you help promote the Initiative on your program?

My other comments and posts to you did not refer to Cedillo's comments. They quoted, and linked (audio included) comments by Arnold and Arnold's staff. If anyone's strategy failed, it was Arnold's. It was Arnold's comments and Arnold's actions that caused the outrage. Note... 84% of those supporting Arnold (according to the field poll - all parties) opposed drivers licenses for illegals. They did not oppose them "for security reasons". Arnold should have simply told Cedillo NO from the beginning. His game-playing got himself in the mess! Try putting any blame where it belongs.

Regarding political guns attacking Arnold 24/7, spare me the 'Victim' whine. Arnold has gotten the Teflon treatment for some time. When someone tries to hold him accountable for his statements, supporters cry fowl. Because someone does not agree with you, or your perception of Arnold's "strategy", does not make them a "knuckledragger". You are sounding like Hillary and her "vast right wing conspiracy". Name-calling is quite unbecoming.

114 posted on 03/24/2004 11:02:41 PM PST by calcowgirl
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To: Poohbah
If you remember the "revolving door" ad surely you remember the opposition ads. The opposition ads had no affect? That one advocates' ad may have been awkward but it sure as heck was not racist. All the racist BS came from opposition.

RE: "My first thought was that David Duke and Tom Metzger had put the things together."

Maybe they did. Did you know that the opposition offered David Duke a large amount of money to come to California to speak for Prop 187? Virtually their entire campaign was race, race, race.

That's a pretty serious charge. Bet you cannot back it up -- with valid sources.

"Why Latinos Supported Proposition 187," Lina Yvette Newton University of California, Irvine. 1998

http://hypatia.ss.uci.edu/democ//papers/lina.htm

This study suggests that the proponents did too little to counter the opposition lies. Americans of Hispanic origin support dropped to about 30 percent by election day -- which is about their average support for Republicans, I believe.

I have omitted Mr. Hogue's name. Why bother. He's too obsessed with that other talk show host's campaign and continues with the silly -- and VERY insulting -- chant, "don't be fooled by a rumor started by Gil Cedillo!"

He does not have the courtesy to read anything we write.

A whole of lot o projectin' going one our ther'. Mr Hogue, et al. say we blindly follow dem Rats' lies -- look how they do the Rats' work vis-a-vis Prop 187.

115 posted on 03/25/2004 6:20:20 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Hmmm. I lost my ability to speak fluent hillbilly years ago. That should be A whole lot o projectin' going on out ther'.
116 posted on 03/25/2004 6:25:10 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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