Gun toters halt robbery attempts

Detroit Free Press ^ | Mar 23 | Frank Witsil and Amber Hunt Martin

[Dan from Michigan]

Applying the school-yard axiom that turnabout is fair play, would-be robbery victims thwarted their attackers in two recent separate incidents -- one by facing down the alleged bandit in a standoff, the other by shooting a man in the butt.

[Dan from Michigan]

We shoot back now!!!!!!!

And this is a big step for Gilda Jacobs, our state's Sarah Brady. She is actually admitting there's a use for guns.

[Dan from Michigan]

BOOM!

[mvpel]

She's still confusing self-defense with vigilantism, though. Some mental illnesses are really hard to escape, I guess.

[Lost Highway]

$40,000 dollar ring!! She probably used it to hide behind.

[AFreeBird]

$40,000 dollar ring!! She probably used it to hide behind.

She probably used the glare coming off it to temorarily blind her attacker thus giving her the chance to draw her own weapon.

[Dan from Michigan]

Novi is known for money.

[RetiredArmy]

Yes, yes, yes, don't defend yourself. Show restraint when crooks hold you up. Don't be quick to respond. You could get shot. Well, I could get shot anyway, so I might as well make them pay on my way out!

[glock rocks]

[AdamSelene235]

The self-defense actions drew praise but also caution about returning to Dodge City-style six-gun justice.

The murder rate was lower in the "Wild West" than in the modern welfare state.

[spunkets]

" State Sen. Gilda Jacobs, D-Huntington Woods"

_itch!

[Dan from Michigan]

She's our state's Sarah Brady and represents SE Oakland County which is uberleftist. FERNDALE is in that district. Think Gay capital of Michigan....not that anything is wrong with that.

[Lost Highway]

What do they print it?

[GrandEagle]

We shoot back now!!!!!!!
Congrads! The bad guys down here forget from time to time and a few of them wake up dead. The rest suddenly remember why the should be in New York City, or Washington DC.

[nightdriver]

Bloomfield said. "I mean, a guy breaks into a man's house armed, prepared to do harm, and the man defends himself. That's great."

That's easy for him to say, but it will still get the homeowner a jail sentence out here in Oregon.

Too many liberals!

[Larry Lucido]

Two other men -- a father-son team accused of trying to rob a 65-year-old retiree

Take Your Kids To Work Day?

[AK2KX]

Bloomfield said he didn't know whether the home owner had a permit for his weapon.

Obviously the reporter asked Bloomfield this question. No carry permit is required on your own property...

[nightdriver]

"But do we want a bunch of vigilantes running around with guns to do the police's work?"

BUT! Police work does NOT, I say again NOT include defending me or my property. The humped-up liberal Supreme Court says so!

[GrandEagle]

No carry permit is required on your own property...
Didn't say carry permit. Some states require you to have a permit simply to have a handgun. I don't know about this state.

[GrandEagle]

The self-defense actions drew praise but also caution about returning to Dodge City-style six-gun justice.
This is a dead argument. Proven wrong by 20 or so years of statistics. It has been shown that the violent crime rate goes up when a state enacts carry permits.. OTHER states that don't trust their citizens that is.

[AK2KX]

I live in Michigan, in fact I frequently am in the area where the woman had her run in. Michigan requires a "purchase permit" before buying a handgun, and registration afterward.

You can carry either open or concealed on your own property and at your own business premises with no permit required.

[GrandEagle]

I stand (or sit as it is) corrected. Thanks.
Do you have to have a "purchase permit" for each handgun?
Say you were going to buy two handguns in one trip, would you need two permits or just one for the purchase?
What about if you bought one then a month later another?
Just curious...

[glock rocks]

a bit more mention of Cheif Dwyer...

[glock rocks]

Cheif s/b Chief.

why, oh why did you make me dyslexic, Dog?

[Larry Lucido]

Cheif s/b Chief.

why, oh why did you make me dyslexic, Dog?

Hey, we're all a little dyslexic. BTW, just this afternoon I was at the range qualifying with my newly-issued Cklog!

[GrandEagle]

AK2KX told me about your required "Purchase Permits".
I'm a bit curious how that works.
Do you have to have a "purchase permit" for each handgun?
Say you were going to buy two handguns in one trip, would you need two permits or just one for the purchase?
What about if you bought one then a month later another?
Is it easy to get a permit to purchase a handgun?

[glock rocks]

BTW, just this afternoon I was at the range qualifying with my newly-issued Cklog!

Cool!

Hmmmm. I've gotta go practice... maybe if I take the wife with me on Friday, she'll forget the yard work that, uh,

... it could happen

[Henrietta]

"That's easy for him to say, but it will still get the homeowner a jail sentence out here in Oregon."

I don't think so. Even in Oregon, one is not required to retreat before defending oneself in one's own home.


But give the Leftists a little time...

[Dan from Michigan]

I wonder if Bloomfield is referring to the "Green Card" ie Registration.

[Dan from Michigan]

I think it depends in the county. Some I've heard charge $5 for permits, usually referred to as "Green Cards".

Luckily, the Livingston County Sheriff Dept is fairly nice on that. When I got mine, I went through a background check, and then got my permit to purchase(10 days valid). I then bought the gun with it, and went back to the sheriff's dept to get it registered, I mean "safety inspection". The clerk passes the gun around to the undersheriff and others at the station who then marvel at how cool the gun is, and then give it back to me, no charge.

There is no 'one gun a month' law here, but I think you need a permit for each pistol since the gun is what is registered.

It was easy HERE, but I heard it was harder in some places, notably Wayne County.

[GrandEagle]

It was easy HERE, but I heard it was harder in some places, notably Wayne County.
Thanks for the reply.
Nothing like that down here. You just walk in, pick it out, fill out the federal forms, wait a couple of minutes while they call in the "Brady Check", and out the door you go; weapon in hand.
They do have to fill out a "snitch sheet" and send it to the Feds if you buy more than one weapon in a week.

[El Gato]

"The round ended up coming out of his buttocks,

Which brings up the interesting question of "where did it go in?". You don't suppose Sonny Boy has been turned into a faux-Daughter? Probably not, but it would be a well deserved fate if it happened.

[El Gato]

Do you have to have a "purchase permit" for each handgun? Say you were going to buy two handguns in one trip, would you need two permits or just one for the purchase?

From the NRA-ILA Michigan law site:

"To purchase a handgun from either a dealer or private individual, the buyer must obtain a license to purchase from the chief of police if the buyer lives in a city, or the county sheriff if he lives in an area without an organized police department. The buyer must be 18 years of age, a U.S. citizen, a resident of Michigan, have no felony conviction, have never been adjudged insane (unless later restored by court order), and score 70% on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire.1

The license to purchase must be filled out in triplicate at the time of purchase. The license shall include a description of the handgun sold and the signatures of both the buyer and seller. The seller may retain one copy and the buyer retains the other two. After purchase and delivery of the handgun is completed, the buyer must return the license to purchase along with the purchased handgun, unloaded and encased or trigger locked, to the local licensing (law enforcement) authority within 10 days.

The buyer (licensee) will then be issued a safety inspection certificate (registration) for the handgun. One copy of the license will be held by the local authority for six years and the remaining copy shall be forwarded to the Commissioner of State Police. The license, once issued, becomes void if not used within 10 days."

---

Sounds pretty infringing to me. FWIW, I've purchased three handguns in Texas. The first two before the Brady Instant Registration went into effect. In all three cases I walked in with no paperwork, and walked out in no more than 15-20 minutes, required to fill out the federal forms, and in the later case, wait for the Instant check, which pretty much was.

[Criminal Number 18F]

"This is one of those ones that you hear as a policeman and you go, 'All right!' " Bloomfield said. "I mean, a guy breaks into a man's house armed, prepared to do harm, and the man defends himself. That's great."

Sounds like there's at least one rational cop left in Michigan. Musta been your lobbying, Dan!

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[B4Ranch]

"Even in Oregon, one is not required to retreat before defending oneself in one's own home. "

If that day of retreat ever happens that will be when Shoot, Shovel and ShutUp begins in serious form by previously law abiding gunowners. Oregons black bears will have to dig up the remains. One bag of hot lime will disolve a cow carcass in 24 hours.

[in the Arena]

"We have to be careful we don't end up having the wild, wild west," she said.

huh ? I would say two attempted armed robberies are an example of the 'wild, wild west' scenario...The victims that prevented them...well, that would be Frontier Justice...

[canis major]

"But do we want a bunch of vigilantes running around with guns to do the police's work?"

Hmm, I certainly don't expect the police to protect me 24 hours a day. I do expect them to investigate crime (note that the crime has already been commited) and put criminals behind bars.

This politician is one of those morons that thinks the public has no right to protect itself because the police will. Doh!

[Indie]

The self-defense actions drew praise but also caution about returning to Dodge City-style six-gun justice.

Give me a F****** break.

[stevie_d_64]

You know as for the good this story does for our argument (and really its not an argument, its fact)...

I am absolutely getting friggin tired of those stupid, ignorant statements made by "officials" about these "Dodge City, and wild west shooting fears these numbnuts always come up with when something unfortunately has to end up like this for those "officials"...

Ohhhhhh!!! Gasp!!!! Somebody actually fought back against the criminals!!!

"We want the public to know its best to just not resist..."

At least the L.E. in that gun-control friendly part of this country is seeing this for what it is...

Victory will be when every single State in our Union accepst the fact that we law abiding citizens have had this right all along!!! And when Chicago, and D.C. both get their collective heads out of their posteriors and see that as well...Then things might just get a little better...

Kinda sad to think that if I am almost 40, I'll probably never see that day...

But for all intensive purposes, good for those folks who were able to defend themselves...I bet they never forget what did it for them again...

Anyway...Off the proverbial soapbox again...

Later,
Steve

[GeronL]

That's easy for him to say, but it will still get the homeowner a jail sentence out here in Oregon.

Nanny Oregon won't even let you guys pump your own gas. Or have they changed that law?

[nightdriver]

"Nanny Oregon won't even let you guys pump your own gas. Or have they changed that law?"

Nope!

They're still protecting us from ourselves and those mean old bad-nasty capitalistic exploiter of the masses gas station owners!

[Guillermo]

No, you see, the Pig fascist cops want to take your guns away. That's why they "warn" of "dodge city justice".

The most anti-2nd amendment crowd in this country are the police. Job security, you know.

[InABunkerUnderSF]

They're still protecting us from ourselves and those mean old bad-nasty capitalistic exploiter of the masses gas station owners!

Look at it this way, at least your gas burns. I built a cabin (2500 square foot log home) in Siskiyou Co. CA last year and spent a lot of time up and down I5 between Yreka and Lowes in Medford. Oregon gas was about 30 cents a gallon cheaper than CA self serve and I got about 10% better mileage than I do on the MTBE contaminated sludge we have to use.

[nightdriver]

".....I got about 10% better mileage than I do on the MTBE contaminated sludge we have to use."

I believe it. The environazis have the refineries in America having to make some 97 different blends of gasoline just to "satisfy" the arbitrary pollution standards they have nefariously had codified.

That's the biggest reason for the huge increase in gas prices as well.

Calipooia has to be the worst among them all, too.

[epow]

You just walk in, pick it out, fill out the federal forms, wait a couple of minutes while they call in the "Brady Check", and out the door you go; weapon in hand.

Here in GA if you have a CCL you don't have to have the Brady check. It saves a few bucks and a few minutes when you buy a gun. After all, if I passed the 2-month long FBI background check to get the CCL, why should I have to be checked out again every time I buy a gun?

GA is pretty good on the gun issue overall, and if the GA lawmakers would remove a couple of unreasonable restrictions on the CCL it would be even better.

[Squantos]

Gilda clearly has no cents and it's well known among the criminal element thus she has no fear of being robbed !

Stay Safe Dan !

[mrustow]

All I could think about while reading this story, was: if the cases were in New York, the media wouldn't report on the first story at all, unless the woman were black (and it looks like this case may have racial overtones the New York media would definitely not report on). And in the second case, the homeowner who fired in self-defense would have been arrested, and vigorously prosecuted, the media would report on the story as a cautionary tale ("If you keep and use an illegal hand gun, you too will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law"), and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly would be talking about how dangerous it is, for people to own unlicensed firearms, and how the circumstances of the case did not justify the old man's actions.

Things are so bad in New York, that Nanny Bloomberg has instituted "gun courts" just to prosecute people caught carrying unlicensed firearms. None of the cases I read about, involved using firearms to commit crimes, and yet, whereas in the past, many illegal possession cases resulted in probation, virtually no cases do in gun court. The average sentence is one year in the slammer. Nanny B. considers possession of a weapon by civilians one of the most heinous crimes imaginable.

[Dan from Michigan]

I remember one Gilda story real well. She was having an anti-gun press conference somewhere. She was showing off scary looking guns.....well, her finger was on the trigger and it swung muzzle end toward the crowd....some of them as you can expect ducked.

"Oh, it wasn't loaded, the Michigan State Police showed it to me".

[GrandEagle]

FBI background check to get the CCL
We have two counties that don't do the FBI background check for our CCP. Since it is not a state law to do them, several states don't honor them: and we have to do the "Brady Check".
Good to know there is such a weapom friendly state next door!

[WhiteyAppleseed]

Do you have to have a "purchase permit" for each handgun? Say you were going to buy two handguns in one trip, would you need two permits or just one for the purchase? What about if you bought one then a month later another?

Yes, a "permit" for each one, two permits for two guns, etc. With a concealed pistol license, I think some of the legwork may be eliminated, but I believe you still have to bring the pistol in for a "safety check" at the local sheriff's office, or village police. If you bought one, then a month later, another, you have a pretty good collection going--I don't believe there is a limit on numbers.