Kerry can't recall being at '71 parley (Boston Globe tackles assassin plot - new info)

Boston Globe ^ | April 1st, 2004 | Michael Kranish

[Sabertooth]

Senator John F. Kerry said through a spokesman this week that he has no recollection of attending a November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which some activists discussed a plot to kill some US senators who backed the war.

[Sabertooth]

[TBP]

Kerry can't recall being at '71 parley

Probably too stoned.

[Mo1]

Btt for a morning read

[js1138]

Pandora is missing some of her files also.

[GrandMoM]

BUMP FOR MORN!!

[Sabertooth]

But another FBI report from the same period adds that an informant at the Kansas City meeting heard a "vastly more militant posture," prompting an FBI official to add this cautionary note: "Some information reports by various informants is at variance and considering extreme importance of developments in this matter and intense interest of other government agencies, it is essential that full details of meeting be ascertained accurately and immediately." The reports indicate that the FBI information about Kerry came not from FBI agents but from informants who fed information to the government. Thus, the reliability of the reports is difficult to verify.

[Cindy]

Well, God bless Mr. Kerry's poor old, tired brain.
He can't recall....

Hillary has a hard time recalling things, too.

Democrat disease?

Well, I guess this "can't recall" business is one
more item Hillary and JFKerry have in common.

Yep. Great leaders in the making in these troublesome times.

[Sabertooth]

FYI

(Let me know if you want on or off my VVAW ping list.)

[MamaLucci]

Nicosia says some of the (stolen) files were "explosive". Interesting choice of words....

[squidly]

Many members of the organization agreed with Barnes that Kerry sought to moderate the group and that he quit the organization in 1971 when he could not come to terms with some of the more radical members the group.

This is the key paragraph, IMO. From what I've gathered, it is also probably true. Even the people who have stated that JK was at the KC meeting have said that he argued (apparently successfully) against the assassination plan. That's why I think this issue is a non-starter.

Even if my above paragraph is true, I suppose that if enough noise is made about it, it could be damaging to him. And why not play it that way? It's the way he plays it.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

I find it hard to believe that Kerry "can't recall" a meeting of a group in which he had been active and at which someone proposed assassinating senior government leaders.

That is not the kind of experience that someone forgets.

Therefore, since he has not adamantly denied it, I tend to believe that he was there.

[archy]

The reports indicate that the FBI information about Kerry came not from FBI agents but from informants who fed information to the government. Thus, the reliability of the reports is difficult to verify.

How about the photographs of the participants taken by the 113th Military Intelligence Group?

[BenLurkin]

bttt

[Yaelle]

It sounds like the reason the conservo-media is not going with this story is that no one other than some eyewitnesses put him at the meeting and say that he was present for the voting. No one can get a good corroboration and they must all be afraid of being sued for libel or something.

And now some of the witnesses have changed their addled minds about Kerry being there, and Kerry supporter Nicosia had some explosive files "stolen" days after this story started to go national.

Well, gee.

How conveeeenient.

[skr]

Personally, I think I'd remember voting on assassination as a policy.

[Yaelle]

"If there are valid FBI surveillance reports from credible sources that place some of those disagreements in Kansas City, we accept that historical footnote in the account of his work to end the difficult and divisive war."

Now, what exact day did Kerry's campaign say the above, and what exact day thereafter did the Nicosia FBI files go "stolen"? I don't think there were more than 4 days between the two events.

Must just be a coincidence. Nothing to see here.

[beckett]

Quite honestly, I am not absolutely certain that John Kerry was at that meeting," Barnes said about the Kansas City session.

Randy Barnes stands at the gates of Canossa in sackcloth and ashes.

[MamaLucci]

John Kerry, a national VVAW leader, appeared at the meeting and announced to those present he was resigning from the executive committee for personal reasons; however, he would be available to speak for VVAW.

Something doesn't jibe with this whole story. Kerry has claimed he quit because the group was getting too radical, not "for personal reasons".
One thing's for sure SOMEBODY thinks the info in the Kerry files is interesting enough to have stolen them.

[Sabertooth]

A third key player, Randy Barnes, who headed the Kansas City chapter that hosted the meeting, has been quoted in the media as saying Kerry was there. But in a telephone interview, Barnes said he may have confused that session with an earlier one in St. Louis and now is unsure whether Kerry attended the Kansas City function.

"Quite honestly, I am not absolutely certain that John Kerry was at that meeting," Barnes said about the Kansas City session. "A meeting occurred in St. Louis and one occurred in Kansas City. I thought the Kansas City meeting was first."

But Barnes said he now realizes that "the St. Louis meeting was first. What I had thought was a certain thing, I am absolutely not sure now."

In any case, Barnes said, the plot suggested by Camil was never taken seriously and was quickly shouted down. As for Kerry, Barnes said, "John constantly gave an impassioned plea to be nonviolent, work within the system."

John Kerry's Political Friends
			Posted by kattracks On 03/15/2004 1:42:17 AM PST with 18 comments NY Sun via FrontPagemagazine.com ^ | 3/15/04 | Thomas H. Lipscomb The anti-war group that John Kerry was the principal spokesman for debated and voted on a plot to assassinate politicians who supported the Vietnam War. Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry, who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization. Mr. Barnes was present as part of the Kansas City host chapter for the...
Kerry's Campaign Asked A [Disabled] Veteran To Change Story - KC Meeting At Issue
			Posted by Hon On 03/22/2004 8:28:31 AM PST with 133 comments New York Sun | March 22, 2004 | Thomas H. Lipscomb KERRY’S CAMPAIGN ASKED A VETERAN TO CHANGE STORY KANSAS MEETING AT ISSUE By THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB Special to the Sun     A Vietnam veteran who said he remembers John Kerry participating in a 1971 Kansas City meeting at which an assassination plot was discussed says an official with the Kerry presidential campaign called him this month and pressured him to change his story.     The veteran, John Musgrave, says he was called twice by the head of Veterans for Kerry, John Hurley, while a reporter for the Kansas City Star worked on a follow-up piece to a New York Sun article about...
Kerry hedges on 1971 KC meeting [for assassination plot]
			Posted by nwrep On 03/19/2004 8:38:34 PM PST with 72 comments Knight Ridder ^ | March 19, 2004 | SCOTT CANON KANSAS CITY - (KRT) - Confronted with 32-year-old FBI records, Sen. John Kerry's campaign all but conceded he attended a 1971 Kansas City meeting where a fellow anti-war veteran called for political assassinations. < -snip- > Last week, John Hurley, an organizer of veteran volunteers for Kerry's presidential run, called two men who were quoted in The Star as recalling Kerry attending the Kansas City meeting. John Musgrave of Baldwin City, Kan., said Hurley called him twice and in the second conversation asked the disabled veteran to contact the newspaper reporter to say he had doubts about the memory. "He said, `I'd like you to consider that before that article comes out call him and tell him you were wrong,' " said Musgrave, who has expressed disappointment with Kerry's position on issues regarding prisoners of war. Hurley said Friday he believed last week Musgrave was simply mistaken. "I asked him to be very sure of his recollection, not to change his recollection," Hurley said. "I would apologize to John Musgrave if he thought in any way I was pressuring him." Another veteran, Randy Barnes of Kansas City, said Hurley had contacted him but did not prompt him to question his memory, although his certainty about the fact wavered after their conversation.
FBI verifies Kerry at 'assassination summit'
			Posted by doug from upland On 03/23/2004 4:11:42 PM PST with 68 comments World Net Daily ^ | 3-23-04 | Scott Stanley, Jr. ELECTION 2004 FBI verifies Kerry at 'assassination summit' Records back claim he was at meeting that discussed killing senators Posted: March 23, 2004 5:00 p.m. Eastern Editor's note: WorldNetDaily is pleased to have a content-sharing agreement with Insight magazine, the bold Washington publication not afraid to ruffle establishment feathers. Subscribe to Insight at WorldNetDaily's online store and save 71 percent off the cover price. By Scott Stanley Jr. © 2004 Insight/News World Communications Inc. News management may have reached an embarrassing low in the Los Angeles Times for March 23 where an article by staff writer John M. Glionna purports to offer...
KERRY RETREATS FROM HIS DENIAL ON VIETNAM MEET - Evidence Puts Him At Kansas Parley
			Posted by kennedy On 03/19/2004 9:07:07 AM PST with 422 comments New York Sun ^ | Mar 19, 2004 | JOSH GERSTEIN MILL VALLEY, Calif. — Senator Kerry of Massachusetts yesterday retreated from his earlier steadfast denials that he attended a meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which a plan to assassinate U.S. Senators was debated. The reversal came as new evidence, including reports from FBI informants, emerged that contradicted Mr. Kerry’s previous statements about the gathering, which was held in Kansas City, Mo. in November 1971. “John Kerry had no personal recollection of this meeting 33 years ago,” a Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, said in a statement e-mailed last night from Idaho, where Mr. Kerry is on vacation....

[Texasforever]

So the memory of a meeting discussing the assassination of US Senators is not something that one would carry to the grave? Now, either Kerry is in advanced Alzheimer’s or he is lying through he teeth. I don't think he is in advanced Alzheimer’s.

[teletech]

I guess since the documents were stolen, he feels safe to deny ever attending that 1971 meeting. This man sits at the pinnacle of EVIL right next to the Clintons.

[Sabertooth]

So the memory of a meeting discussing the assassination of US Senators is not something that one would carry to the grave? Now, either Kerry is in advanced Alzheimer’s or he is lying through he teeth. I don't think he is in advanced Alzheimer’s.

Botox to the forehead. Smoothed his whole brain over.

[samtheman]

Let's find out if he was there or not and make an issue of it. In the meantime, let's see that Dick Cavett debate between Kerry and O'Neill played over and over again. That debate shows what a commie Kerry really is.

[Texasforever]

He isn't that sure of himself yet. He just "can't recall". If he had it covered he would just deny it. This guy is dangerous.

[dpwiener]

Even the people who have stated that JK was at the KC meeting have said that he argued (apparently successfully) against the assassination plan. That's why I think this issue is a non-starter.

This is about as lame an issue as I can imagine. Even if Kerry attended this meeting, he opposed any assassination plan and he then resigned from the organization. Which was the correct thing to do.

It's really, really reaching to argue that Kerry should have contacted authorities. As long as he thought the assassination plan was dead, there was nothing to report.

Anyone trying to make this into an attack on Kerry should be thoroughly embarrassed. It's so pathetic that it makes Kerry look good, since it implies that there are no better issues to go after him on. It's exactly the kind of reflexive and sophomoric attack which Bush-haters like to unleash on the President.

[teletech]

He isn't that sure of himself yet. He just "can't recall". If he had it covered he would just deny it. This guy is dangerous.

ALL DemocRATS are dangerous. Some much more than others.

[Fedora]

Thanks.

[jennyp]

Botox to the forehead. Smoothed his whole brain over.

LOL!

Anyway, back to the article...

Moreover, Nicosia has made public only about 50 of the 20,000 pages of FBI files as a result of an 11-year effort under the Freedom of Information Act. The FBI has not authorized a separate release of the files, although it is studying pending requests.

I wonder how soon the FBI will release more copies of what it already released to Nicosia? If some of the pages were stolen, then the FBI should just release all 20,000 pages again, just to be sure.

[Texasforever]

It's really, really reaching to argue that Kerry should have contacted authorities. As long as he thought the assassination plan was dead, there was nothing to report

Not true. Just because it was "voted" down the entire meeting was a criminal conspiracy. You do not get together and vote on whether US Senators are to be killed. Everyone at that meeting should be coming up for their first parole hearings about now.

[chuckles]

Who ya gonna believe, the FBI or Kerry? Same thing with the Photoshop pic of Kerry and Jane Fondue. They deny that pic, but he was at several demonstrations with her, probably provided the matches for burning the flag.

It make me sick to think that even 48% of America could vote for the scumbag. I just can't believe it won't be a blowout like Dukakis or Mondale was. Even the union goons need to re-think their loyalties. Some of them wore the uniform too.

If Kerry is over 30% by the convention, I give up on this place. The dumbing down of America is complete.

[dpwiener]

Just because it was "voted" down the entire meeting was a criminal conspiracy. You do not get together and vote on whether US Senators are to be killed.

That's ridiculous. If you go to an Elks Club meeting, and someone stands up and proposes that the club members go out and kill their US Senator, and you and the other club members say that it's a stupid idea and it shouldn't be done, how does that make you part of a criminal conspiracy? You said "NO". If you had supported the plan, then you would be part of a criminal conspiracy.

It is so pathetic to attempt to claim Kerry was involved in a criminal conspiracy after he opposed a plan which was then voted down by the group and never carried out.

Attack Kerry on the issues. Attack Kerry on his voting record. Attack Kerry on his flip-flops.

But if you persist in inventing non-existent criminal conspiracies and attacking Kerry over his involvement in those imaginary conspiracies, then don't be surprised when Kerry is inaugurated next January as the next President of the United States.

[Texasforever]

That's ridiculous. If you go to an Elks Club meeting, and someone stands up and proposes that the club members go out and kill their US Senator, and you and the other club members say that it's a stupid idea and it shouldn't be done, how does that make you part of a criminal conspiracy?

Simple. It is against federal law NOT to report a threat against a Federal official. This is not rocket science.

[isthisnickcool]

But if you persist in inventing non-existent criminal conspiracies and attacking Kerry over his involvement in those imaginary conspiracies, then don't be surprised when Kerry is inaugurated next January as the next President of the United States.

If they had a meeting and in that meeting they discussed MURDER and actually voted "yes/no" on it as if it was a viable option that's shocking to me. I'd like to know if that actually happened. If it did and Kerry was there and he participated in such a vote that's stunning. It's something a terror group would do.

[dpwiener]

It is against federal law NOT to report a threat against a Federal official.

I strongly doubt that there is any legal obligation to report a threat if the attack is not expected to take place. If someone says "I'm so angry at my Congressman that I'd like to kill him" do you have to report that "threat"? Perhaps you do if you think the person will actually carry out the threat, but not if you believe he won't. In the latter case both his and your First Amendment rights would be violated by such a legal requirement.

If you can point me to this mythical federal law which really requires all "threats" to be reported, I'll concede I'm wrong. I don't believe that such a law exists. Any federal law you can find regarding threats to federal officials is certain to be limited and circumscribed. Because if it did exist in the form you describe, it would long ago have been ruled unconstitutional.

[wingman1]

You may be right, but I keep coming back to Kerry's claim that he quit VVAW at the STL meeting. There has to be a reason why and that is, he is aware of the dangers posed by being placed at the KC meeting where conspiracy to commit murder was discussed.

Also Kerry quitting the group did not remove the threat of a plan still being carried out. If anything, one less moderating voice would increase the likelihood of the group going off the deep end.

It is also important to recall the times we lived in back then - when several assassinations took place, as well as violent protests and bombings.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

This is as much as saying he was there and got caught lying.

[NYCVirago]

Nicosia says some of the (stolen) files were "explosive". Interesting choice of words....

But Nicosia had said earlier he didn't know what was in those files, as he hadn't gone through all of them yet. Something's very fishy here.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Actually, Kerry's pretty hardboiled. He made an assassination joke about Dan Quail. It could be that talk of killing people is common with Kerry & Friends, which doesn't surprise me after seeing so many possible victims of the Arkansas Flu.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

You are likely correct about the legal points. Then there is the ethical side. Someone in that group did later commit a political assassination. It was low level, a superintendent of schools I think it was. Kerry might have been able to prevent that. And, as I said before, Kerry also made a public joke about assassinating Dan Quail. That was back in the late 80s or early 90s. There you have it. Kerry is clearly an immoral person with a jaded sense of humor and pent up frustrations that would make him a danger to anyone who crossed him if he had executive power. This is also backed up by his temper tantrums. Hitler had a comparable temper. Anger is ok if one knows how to vent it properly. Making public assassination jokes about a vice president is not a good way to vent anger.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

A member of that group later did commit a political assassination. And, Kerry later made a public assassination joke about a vice president. You might want to factor those points in. How does all of that added in make this issue turn out?

[muawiyah]

An open debate about specific assassination possibilities is always a serious issue for any organization.

Who other than Kerry's staff people are saying Kerry voted "no"?

[jellybean]

Senator John F. Kerry said through a spokesman this week that he has no recollection of attending a November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which some activists discussed a plot to kill some US senators who backed the war.

"Senator Kerry does not remember attending the Kansas City meeting," Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan said in a statement to the Globe in response to written questions about the matter. "Kerry does not remember any discussions that you referred to," the statement added, referring to the assassination plot.

snip...

But last week, the Kerry campaign seemed to leave open the possibility that he had attended the November session, after historian Gerald Nicosia said he had found an FBI document that he said indicated that Kerry was there. As a result of Nicosia's assertion, Kerry's campaign said in a statement that while Kerry did not remember being at the meeting, "If there are valid FBI surveillance reports from credible sources that place some of those disagreements in Kansas City, we accept that historical footnote in the account of his work to end the difficult and divisive war."

Interesting how the story changed once those valid FBI surveillnace reports came up missing.

[Happy2BMe]

Thank you for the ping on Kerry.

You are doing a great job keeping us informed and it is much appreciated.

[kabar]

The FBI has not authorized a separate release of the files, although it is studying pending requests.

I hope one of those pending requests is from the RNC.

[mware]

It is not a lame issue if he knew about the vote to assassinate senators and did not report it.

[OrioleFan]

Maybe Kerry dank too much iced tea and had to "step out" when the assasination plot was discussed...

[OrioleFan]

Maybe Kerry drank too much iced tea and had to "step out" when the assasination plot was discussed...

[StriperSniper]

Ping!

[mo]

Great...so now we're down to playing the Washington Amnesia game...there must REALLY be some liability concerning his civic reponsibility over this issue.

[Dante3]

Exactly. Makes one also wonder how many meetings he has attended where assassiantion of government officials is discussed. As you stated, this is not something one is likely to forget unless he has serious memory problems or onset of Alzheimers.