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The Founders did not Grant the Federal Judiciary the Power to Interpret the Constitution
The Price of Liberty ^ | 03/29/2004 | Robert Greenslade

Posted on 04/02/2004 6:52:40 AM PST by Free Fire Zone

The Founders did not Grant the Federal Judiciary the Power to Interpret the Constitution By Robert Greenslade © Nitwit Press

March 29, 2004

Several prominent conservative commentators have stated that it is critical to re-elect George W. Bush because presidents have a direct voice in the appointment of federal judges and these judges “have the power to interpret the Constitution.” Since most Americans have been carefully indoctrinated in a federally funded education camp masquerading as an institution of higher learning, most people, including conservative media pundits, only have a vague understanding of the system of government established by the Constitution. This has made it relatively easy for proponents of big government to advance numerous constitutional fairy tales. The purpose of this article is to dispel the myth that the Founders granted the federal judiciary the power to interpret the Constitution.

In order to understand this issue, it is necessary to begin with the basics. Contrary to popular belief, the Constitution did not consolidate the several States or their people into a single nation. The Constitution simply modified the federal system of government that had been established by the Articles of Confederation. The word federal has a very important meaning. Shortly after his death in 1850, John C. Calhoun’s essay entitled A Discourse on the Constitution and Government of the United States was published in book form. The following excerpt is a concise definition of the word federal as it relates to the federal system of government established by the Constitution:

It is federal, because it is the government of States united in a political union, in contradistinction to a government of individuals, that is, by what is usually called, a social compact. To express it more concisely, it is federal and not national because it is the government of a community of States, and not the government of a single State or Nation.

As stated by Mr. Calhoun, the federal government is the States’ government. When the States adopted the Constitution, they created a common agent called the federal government. They empowered their agent, via the Constitution, with the authority to perform limited functions that would be difficult or impossible for the States to perform individually. If the federal judiciary had the power to interpret the Constitution, then the agent would be superior to the principals because it could circumvent its grant of power and nullify the Constitution through its rulings.

Thomas Jefferson discussed this principle in his draft of the Kentucky Resolutions of 1798. These Resolutions were written in response to an attempt by Congress to expand the criminal jurisdiction of the federal government through a set of laws entitled the “Alien and Sedition Laws.” Jefferson wrote:

The several states composing the United States of America are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but…by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes [and] delegated to that government certain definite powers…and…whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force…To this compact each state acceded as a state, and is an integral party, its co-states forming, as to itself, the other party…The government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself, since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution the measure of its powers…[Bold added]

The State of Virginia also adopted a set of resolutions in response to the “Alien and Sedition Laws.” These resolutions defined the nature of the Constitution and the character of the federal government. The Virginia Legislature also defined the Constitution as a compact between the several States. These resolutions paralleled Jefferson’s overview of the Constitution and re-affirmed the principle that the States, not the federal judiciary, had the power, in the last resort, to define the extent of the powers delegated to their federal government. The Virginia Resolutions stated in part:

[T]his Assembly doth explicitly and peremptorily declare, that it views the powers of the Federal Government, as resulting from the compact, to which the States are parties, as limited by the plain sense and intention of the instrument constituting the compact as no further valid than they are authorized by the grants enumerated in that compact; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable and dangerous exercise of other powers, not granted by the said compact, the States who are parties thereto, have the right, and are duty bound, to interpose, for arresting the progress of the evil, and for maintaining within their respective limits, the authorities, rights and liberties appertaining to them.

As stated above, federal courts are not the final arbitrator of the Constitution or the extent of the powers delegated to the federal government. Since the Constitution is a compact between the several States, and the federal government is not a party, but the result of that compact, it lacks the authority to define the extent of the powers delegated to it by the States. Only the individual States, as the exclusive parties to the compact between themselves, possess that power. If the federal judiciary had the power to interpret the Constitution, then it would be meaningless as a written document, because, as stated by Jefferson, judicial discretion, not the Constitution, would determine the measure of the federal power.

In his book, The Federal Government, Its True Nature and Character, Able Upshur, who had been Secretary of State and Secretary of the Navy, devoted a large portion of his commentary to this subject. Published in 1868, this might be the finest book ever written on the Constitution and system of government created by that document.

The, Federal Government is the creature of the States. It is not a party to the Constitution, but the result of it the creation of that agreement which was made by the States as parties. It is a mere agent, entrusted with limited powers for certain specific objects; which powers and objects are enumerated in the Constitution. Shall the agent be permitted to judge the extent of its own powers, without reference to his constituent? To a certain extent, he is compelled to do this, in the very act of exercising them, but always in subordination to the authority by whom his powers were conferred. If this were not so, the result would be, that the agent would possess every power which the agent could confer, notwithstanding the plainest and most express terms of the grant. This would be against all principle and all reason. If such a rule would prevail in regard to government, a written constitution would be the idlest thing imaginable. It would afford no barrier against the usurpations of the government, and no security for the rights and liberties of the people. If then the Federal Government has no authority to judge, in the last resort, of the extent of its own powers, with what propriety can it be said that a single department of that government may do so? Nay. It is said that this department may not only judge for itself, but for the other departments also. This is an absurdity as pernicious as it is gross and palpable. If the judiciary may determine the powers of the Federal Government, it may pronounce them either less or more than they really are. [Emphasis not added]

If the States did not grant the federal judiciary the power to interpret the Constitution, then what is the proper role of the federal courts in questions involving federal legislation and the Constitution? When an act of Congress is appropriately challenged as not conforming to the Constitution, the federal judiciary has only one duty—to lay the article of the Constitution that is invoked beside the statute that is challenged and decide whether the latter squares with the former. The judiciary does not have the power to interpret the Constitution¯it has the power to scrutinize the statute being challenged to make sure it falls within the scope of the powers delegated to the federal government by the States via the Constitution.

In any contractual agreement involving the creation of an agent, the final word on the extent of the powers granted to the agent rests with the principals not the agent. If 13 home owners got together, and by contract, created an agent and limited its duties to mowing their yards, trimming their trees, and maintaining the outside landscaping, would the agent have the power to interpret the contract to include duties not enumerated in the contract? Absolutely not. This would be an absurdity because the contract would not be worth the paper it was written on. In such a case, the principals would sit their agent down and tell it to either stay within the scope of the powers granted by the contract or we will amend or terminate the contract. The Constitution was designed to operate on this same principle. Unfortunately, the States are failing to exercise this power.

The underlying reason why the federal judiciary was not granted the authority to interpret the Constitution was stated very succinctly by John Marshall who would later become Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court¯“the judicial power cannot extend to political compacts.” Since the Constitution is a political compact between the several States, and the federal government is not a party to that compact, it lacks the constitutional authority to interpret the compact, or decide, in the last resort, the extent of the powers granted to it by the several States.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: dixielist; founders; johnmarshall; judicialactivism; peterpufferpaulsen; repeal17thamendment; scotus; statesrights
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1 posted on 04/02/2004 6:52:41 AM PST by Free Fire Zone
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To: Free Fire Zone
The underlying reason why the federal judiciary was not granted the authority to interpret the Constitution was stated very succinctly by John Marshall who would later become Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court¯“the judicial power cannot extend to political compacts.”

"It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases, must of necessity expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each.

So if a law be in opposition to the constitution; if both the law and the constitution apply to a particular case, so that the court must either decide that case conformably to the law, disregarding the constitution; or conformably to the constitution, disregarding the law; the court must determine which of these conflicting rules governs the case. This is of the very essence of judicial duty." -- Chief Justice John Marshall

2 posted on 04/02/2004 6:58:19 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: All

Donate Here By Secure Server
3 posted on 04/02/2004 6:58:35 AM PST by Support Free Republic (If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened!)
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To: Free Fire Zone
"If 13 home owners got together, and by contract, created an agent and limited its duties to mowing their yards, trimming their trees, and maintaining the outside landscaping, would the agent have the power to interpret the contract to include duties not enumerated in the contract?"

Bad analogy. The agent (ie, congress) is not the one doing the "interpreting" -- I thought the author was complaining about the judiciary interpreting the constitution.

Using the above example, does the agent has the authority to cut down a dead (or diseased) tree? Must it then replace that tree? It has the authority to "trim trees" (not cut them down). It has the authority to "maintain the outside landscaping" (not modify the outside landscaping).

A third party (judiciary) is required to "interpret" the intent of the 13 homeowners. That is not up to the agent to decide.

If the third party consistently "interprets" the contract in a manner that looks more like activism, the 13 home owners may impeach and remove that agent. What's the problem with that arrangement?

4 posted on 04/02/2004 7:15:23 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: Free Fire Zone
Print out later
5 posted on 04/02/2004 7:15:40 AM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: robertpaulsen
"Bad analogy. The agent (ie, congress) is not the one doing the "interpreting" -- I thought the author was complaining about the judiciary interpreting the constitution."

I don't see it that way, the agent is the federal govt which includes all three of it's branches.

6 posted on 04/02/2004 7:27:15 AM PST by Shadow Deamon
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To: Free Fire Zone
three words...Marbury versus Madison. And it's not getting reversed.

End of story. this is crapola.
7 posted on 04/02/2004 7:35:04 AM PST by Keith (IT'S ABOUT THE JUDGES)
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To: robertpaulsen
...Bad analogy. The agent (ie, congress) is not the one doing the "interpreting" -- I thought the author was complaining about the judiciary interpreting the constitution...

I agree. It is a bad analogy.

"If 13 home owners got together, and by contract, created an agent and limited its duties to..."

First of all an "agent" is an individual that speaks for and carries out the business affairs of his employer; think of agents to writers, rock stars, etc.
The agent in turn would see to the hiring, firing, payments to, specifying duties expected, handling of taxes, workman's comp, etc. etc. of someone to carry out the agreed upon lawn care. Among his other duties the agent would act as a conduit between the homeowners and the lawn maintenance company re: any questions or "intrepretion" of contracted duties.

The Supreme Court, ITOH, is a separate and distinct branch of the Federal government as stated by the Constitution, and agreed to as such by all the States. It was never created by the states, for the states. In short, it is not and never was the States' "agent". The Judicial arm, like the Executive and Legislative, was established for the people of the United State of America, not for the States that compromise it.

8 posted on 04/02/2004 7:39:05 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Free Fire Zone
Great Article!
9 posted on 04/02/2004 7:40:50 AM PST by jcb8199
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To: Free Fire Zone
B U M P ! ! !
10 posted on 04/02/2004 7:41:47 AM PST by Bigun (IRSsucks@getridof it.com)
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To: Free Fire Zone
"It is not otherwise to be supposed, that the Constitution could intend to enable the representatives of the people to substitute their WILL to that of their constituents. It is far more rational to suppose, that the courts were designed to be an intermediate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latter within the limits assigned to their authority. The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.

Federalist, No. 78

11 posted on 04/02/2004 7:43:30 AM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: Free Fire Zone
Bump for later.
12 posted on 04/02/2004 7:49:16 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Write in Tancredo in 04'!)
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To: Shadow Deamon
"the agent is the federal govt which includes all three of it's branches"

Fine. But it still comes down to the 13 home owners saying, "Here's a general idea of what I want done. You three 'branches' get together and make it happen."

If one branch makes all the decisions, then what's the function of the other two? Checks and balances require that all three get involved in the decision making.

If any one of the three get out of line, they may be replaced.

13 posted on 04/02/2004 7:55:44 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: yankeedame
"Among his other duties the agent would act as a conduit between the homeowners and the lawn maintenance company re: any questions or "intrepretion" of contracted duties."

You're describing a pure democracy, not a representative republic.

The agent, in your example, would hire a lawyer (the judiciary) to interpret the contracted duties assigned to him by the 13 home owners.

If they consistently get the will of the 13 home owners wrong, someone gets fired.

14 posted on 04/02/2004 8:02:11 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Free Fire Zone
This entire article is flawed....the analogy of creating an agent is inherently false, as nowhere in the Founders' thoughts is that even implied. The FOunders were explicit in their directive that the Federal government, via the Constitution, had the power to trump the States (albiet a limited power, which was to be limited through the Judiciary....which is why the Founders made the Judiciary separate from the Legislative branch).
16 posted on 04/02/2004 8:08:59 AM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: everyone
Since the Constitution is a compact between the several States, and the federal government is not a party, but the result of that compact, it lacks the authority to define the extent of the powers delegated to it by the States.

Wrong. -- The powers delegated to both Federal & State governments come from the individual people of America. We the people defined the extent of powers delegated in our Constitution & Amendments.

Only the individual States, as the exclusive parties to the compact between themselves, possess that power.

Wrong. The states must obey our constitution & amendments, just as they ratified them.

If the federal judiciary had the power to interpret the Constitution, then it would be meaningless as a written document, because, as stated by Jefferson, judicial discretion, not the Constitution, would determine the measure of the federal power.

As Jefferson said, the Constitution & Amendments determine the measure of both federal & state power. [see the 10th]
The federal & state judiciaries are themselves bound to honor our constitution, and to find that laws repugnant to the principles of our liberties are void.

This article is a typical 'states rights' piece of agit-prop, intended to justify state government infringements upon individual rights.
Unable to change the US Constitutions guarantees of personal liberties, the statists attempt an 'end around' by claiming States can ignore them.
-- It's a pitifully obvious ploy.

17 posted on 04/02/2004 8:22:11 AM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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To: Free Fire Zone
The Constitution says what The Supreme Court says it says.
That is the reality.
18 posted on 04/02/2004 8:28:41 AM PST by Hanging Chad
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To: Hanging Chad
Only for as long as you accept it.
19 posted on 04/02/2004 8:32:19 AM PST by inquest (The only problem with partisanship is that it leads to bipartisanship)
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To: inquest
"...Only for as long as you accept it..."
- - -
Which will be until 2/3 rds of the Senate CARE enough to change it.
Which just "ain't gonna happen".
20 posted on 04/02/2004 8:39:28 AM PST by Hanging Chad
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Hanging Chad
Or until a significant proportion of the citizenry recognize that they don't have to accept the courts' interpretations.
22 posted on 04/02/2004 8:52:51 AM PST by inquest (The only problem with partisanship is that it leads to bipartisanship)
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To: HistorianDorisKearnsGoodwad
That is the popular story of one John Marshall. But there was more.
-Doris-


______________________________________


Tell us the one about 'Barron', where Marshall made up the fiction that States were not bound by our BOR's.

Was he just senile at that point, --- or was Barron a futile effort to keep things from "falling to pieces" ?
23 posted on 04/02/2004 8:53:53 AM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: HistorianDorisKearnsGoodwad
Tell us the one about 'Barron', where Marshall made up the fiction that States were not bound by our BOR's.
Was he just senile at that point, --- or was Barron a futile effort to keep things from "falling to pieces" ?
23 tpaine

_____________________________________


Marshall was from the Federalist 'school of the expediencey' which produced other such shining graduates as Seward, Lincoln, and Sherman.
24 -doris-


______________________________________


You agree that the Barron decision was mere expediency? -- Good gal.
27 posted on 04/02/2004 9:21:16 AM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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To: robertpaulsen
The problem is that the congress refuses to impeach. Along with every other branch of the Fed, and all the agencies they have created that act in opposition to the function they were intended to perform.
28 posted on 04/02/2004 9:27:14 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: HistorianDorisKearnsGoodwad
"In 1803, in the case of Marbury v. Madison, the Supreme Court ruled that Article III of the Constitution did not permit the existence of any statute that was in conflict with the Constitution itself.
With the cases of Martin v. Hunter's Lessee and Cohens v. Virginia, Chief Justice Marshall led the Supreme Court in rulings that established the Supreme Court's right to review and overrule a state court decision."
15 -doris-

______________________________________


"In his decision Marshall echoed the long-prevailing Federalist view that the Bill of Rights was adopted solely to guard against abuse of power by the Federal government; and that states had no obligation whatsoever to abide by its provisions when they made their own law."
-doris-


______________________________________


You can't have it both ways..

In Marbury, Marshall says State statutes must not conflict with the constitution, and that the USSC can overrule State courts.

-- In Barron you claim he says that States need not abide by our Constitutions provisions.

Very expedient to the 'states rights' cause, but made a moot point by the 14th.
29 posted on 04/02/2004 9:49:52 AM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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To: Hanging Chad
The Constitution says what The Supreme Court says it says. That is the reality.

True.

"The Constitution has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it". Lysander Spooner, No Treason (1870)

30 posted on 04/02/2004 9:52:46 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: tpaine
Very expedient to the 'states rights' cause, but made a moot point by the 14th.

That is only because the SCOTUS was allowed to interpret the 14th Amendment that way. It was never the intent of the 14th to make the Bill of Rights binding on the states. That thinking came about in mid '40s.

As a libertarian, you of all people should appreciate the concept of a nation of independent states free from federal tyranny.

31 posted on 04/02/2004 10:43:21 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: sheltonmac
You can't have it both ways..
In Marbury, Marshall says State statutes must not conflict with the constitution, and that the USSC can overrule State courts.
-- In Barron you claim he says that States need not abide by our Constitutions provisions.
Very expedient to the 'states rights' cause, but made a moot point by the 14th.

That is only because the SCOTUS was allowed to interpret the 14th Amendment that way.

The 14th is in clear language. It needs no 'interpretations'. -- States shall not deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of [constitutional] law.

It was never the intent of the 14th to make the Bill of Rights binding on the states. That thinking came about in mid '40s.

That type of 'thinking' has been around since 1791. It caused our civil war.
The intent of the framers of the 14th is well documented at the Congressional library. Much of the debates centered on our RKBA's, which was being violated by the States. -- It still is, and those States use the same tired argument you do.. Our RKBA's is binding on the States.

As a libertarian, you of all people should appreciate the concept of a nation of independent states free from federal tyranny.

Indeed I do. Federal tyranny is worse than State tyranny.
But that is little comfort to a resident of CA, who wants to give his son a war trophy 'assault weapon'. - CA 'law' says it must be confiscated & destroyed.

Do you agree?

32 posted on 04/02/2004 11:09:16 AM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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To: Free Fire Zone
Good article, bookmark for later.
33 posted on 04/02/2004 11:15:00 AM PST by american spirit
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To: HistorianDorisKearnsGoodwad
Sadly, the Barron case is generally overlooked today. Those who criticize it also fail to see the legal reasoning behind it. Just as the federal constitution had a federal bill of rights so to did practically every state's constitution. In virtually all cases these rights were similar - i.e. the right to bear arms, the right to a jury trial etc. By stating the federal bill applies over the state governments one necessarily renders the various state bills redundant and therefore of little or no meaning. If they were mere redundancies of little or no meaning they never would have been drafted in the first place...which demonstrates that Barron was the correct ruling to make, whatever the flaws of its author may have been.
34 posted on 04/02/2004 11:27:43 AM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: HistorianDorisKearnsGoodwad
As Forrest McDonald noted in States' Rights and the Union (p. 224), after Lincoln’s war the Supreme Court "became the sole and final arbiter of constitutional controversies. No longer could a Jefferson arise to insist that the other branches of the federal government had coequal authority to determine constitutionality. No more could a Calhoun arise to defend a doctrine of interposition or nullification."

That's a great irony of history considering that Lincoln himself took the position of disobeying the court system further than any other president in history. His extended not to simply disagreement but rather to flagrant shunning of explicit rulings against his actions.

35 posted on 04/02/2004 11:33:16 AM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Free Fire Zone
The, Federal Government is the creature of the States.It is not a party to the Constitution, but the result of the creation of that agreement which was made by the States as parties. It is a mere agent...always in subordination to the authority by whom his powers were conferred.

When our elected officials started taking their own piece of the pie out of the countries 'largesse' (with the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913 and the rise of FDR and the New Deal), THAT is when the Federal Gov't became a creature. Unfortunately and to many people's dismay, that genie has been let out of the bottle and is never going back in. Authority ,eh? With the highest population in American history and the lowest voter turnout in our last several national elections, most elected officials (think Ted Kennedy and Robert Bird) have not a care in the world about being removed from office, much less pondering their "subordination to the authority by whom his powers were conferred", especially when they know they can throw a little pork to their constituents.
For your perusal: from "Our Unconstitutional Congress" by Stephen Moore

"...In a landmark 1936 decision, the Supreme Court inflicted a mortal blow to the Constitution by ruling that the Agricultural Adjustment Act was constitutional. The court's interpretation of the spending authority of Congress was frightful and fateful. In its ruling, the court wrote: "The power of Congress to authorize appropriations of public money for public purposes is not limited by the grants of legislative power found in the Constitution."

James M. Beck, the great American legal scholar and former solicitor general, likened this astounding assault on the constitution to the Titanic's tragic collision with the iceberg. "After the collision," wrote Beck, "which was hardly felt by the steamer at the time, the great liner seemed to be intact and unhurt, and continued to move. But a death wound had been inflicted under the surface of the water, which poured into the hold of the steamer so swiftly that in a few hours the great ship was sunk."

Food for thought.

36 posted on 04/02/2004 11:50:31 AM PST by Pagey (Hillary Rotten is (still ) a Smug and Holier- than- Thou Socialist)
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To: GOPcapitalist
By stating the federal bill applies over the state governments one necessarily renders the various state bills redundant and therefore of little or no meaning.

Not at all. The 14th simply made clear that states cannot infringe upon our basic individual rights. Much of the debates centered on our RKBA's, which was being violated by the States.
-- Many continue to do so, and those States still use that same old tired argument..
Our RKBA's is binding on the States.

Federal tyranny is worse than State tyranny.
But that is little comfort to a resident of CA, who wants to give his son a war trophy 'assault weapon'. - CA 'law' says it must be confiscated & destroyed.
Do you agree with that CA 'law' ?

37 posted on 04/02/2004 12:04:35 PM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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To: tpaine
Begone, fly. I was not speaking to you.
38 posted on 04/02/2004 1:16:30 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Free Fire Zone
How many times I asked myself after one of the far reaching judicial decisions "I thought I lived in a representational government." We don't elect these judges to represent us.
39 posted on 04/02/2004 1:19:21 PM PST by Alissa
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To: GOPcapitalist
Our RKBA's is binding on the States.
Federal tyranny is worse than State tyranny. But that is little comfort to a resident of CA, who wants to give his son a war trophy 'assault weapon'.
- CA 'law' says it must be confiscated & destroyed.
Do you agree with that CA 'law' ?

Begone, fly. I was not speaking to you.

It's obvious you agree with CA's prohibition on assault weapons..
Thanks.

40 posted on 04/02/2004 1:27:28 PM PST by tpaine (In arrogance a few powermad infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us)
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To: Free Fire Zone
April Fools was yesterday.
41 posted on 04/02/2004 1:31:49 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: Shadow Deamon
The federal government as created by the Constitution is NOT an agent of the States. It is a creation of the American People through the Congress through the Constitution as ratified by the American People GATHERED in states. States had no role in the creation or ratification of the Constitution outside of establishing the manner its ratification would be voted on. States were DELIBERATELY removed from the approval process AS STATES by not allowing legislatures to vote on ratification.

This was to foreclose any future claims of state primacy whereby it could withdraw from the Union unilaterally. Otherwise allowing state legislatures to ratify would have been allowed. However, Madison and Hamilton knew that this would place the fedgov in a subordinate role and allow the constitution to be violated by a mere state legislative act.

This article is a tissue of absurdities with too many errors to even get into. It is like an eight yr old babbling about nuclear physics no serious or knowledgeable person takes it seriously.
42 posted on 04/02/2004 1:40:21 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: ContemptofCourt
You have a lot of nerve actually using the writings of one of the Constitution's principal exponents and authors rather than rely on some babbling fool's rantings. Next thing I'll hear is you rely upon Einstein for physics theory rather than Dr. DeMento.

I find it singularly interesting that those most often to screech about "unconstitutionaliy" do not know a damn thing about the document and quite frequently also believe that it could legally be torn to shreds by the treasonous democRATs opposed to Abe Lincoln.
43 posted on 04/02/2004 1:45:58 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: jcb8199
Great example of babbling idiocy and rampant falsehoods you mean?
44 posted on 04/02/2004 1:46:49 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: Free Fire Zone
Scalia said this week that a citizen has to show ID to a cop if asked, even though he has done nothing. So much for "conservative" judges.
45 posted on 04/02/2004 1:49:15 PM PST by cynicom
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To: HistorianDorisKearnsGoodwad
When the Liberty Bell was tolling this remarkable man's death it cracked and has never been rung again.
46 posted on 04/02/2004 1:49:15 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: tpaine
That is a false characterization of Barron. It says that provisions of the Constitution which apply strictly to the fedgov ( as did the Bill of Rights) are not binding on the states. It says nothing about states laws which conflict with the parts of the constitution applicable to the states.
47 posted on 04/02/2004 1:52:48 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
And you are claiming that the USSC has power over the executive as commander in chief? Not hardly.
48 posted on 04/02/2004 1:55:27 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: tpaine
So you believe that the Bill of Rights covered slaves? Lol.
49 posted on 04/02/2004 1:57:31 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
And you are claiming that the USSC has power over the executive as commander in chief?

Show me where I did if you can.

50 posted on 04/02/2004 2:06:51 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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