Powell Not Sure Iraq Trailers Were Labs

guardian ^ | 4/2/04

[kcvl]

ALISON CALDWELL: What about these two trailers? The CIA report into these trailers found in Iraq says that there were probably designed to produce biological weapons agents. What do you make of those trailers?

RICHARD BUTLER: I think those trailers were mobile laboratories. Look, everyone knew that Iraq had a major biological weapons program and a chemical weapons program, a missile program that was illegal, and has striven to get an atomic bomb.

That's quantity number one. They remain unaccounted for to this day. They've either been destroyed by the Iraqis or buried.

[BurbankKarl]

airstream ping

[BlackVeil]

Then what were the WMDs Clinton was trying to hit with missiles in the 90's and the UN weapon inspectors looking for?

Different ones, not the same weapons used in the Kurdish attacks in the 1980s.

You actually don't believe there were any WMDs?

Ask General Powell ... He confidently predicted that there was hundreds of tones of the stuff. Scott Ritter said that there had been stocks of chemical weapons, but that they were destroyed by 1997. Tony Blair said that Iraq could launch an attack on the UK within 45 minutes. Everyone has their own story.

[kcvl]

In reference to two trailers full of material that Saddam's men left behind, Kay said, "These documents have extreme value. They relate to the program that the Iraqis used to hide their weapons program from international inspectors over twelve years."

Brokaw described Kay's evidence to his viewers by saying, "This is a mother lode, an estimated seven and a half miles of documents, many of them collected by the U.S. military from official buildings, but many others handed over by Iraqi civilians."

[Jorge]

"Then what were the WMDs Clinton was trying to hit with missiles in the 90's and the UN weapon inspectors looking for?"

Different ones, not the same weapons used in the Kurdish attacks in the 1980s.

No kidding. You mean he wasn't trying to destroy weapons ALREADY used up on the Kurds?

"You actually don't believe there were any WMDs?"

Ask General Powell ... He confidently predicted that there was hundreds of tones of the stuff.

Actually the UN documented the supposed stockpiles of WMDs Iraq had, as did the intelligence agencies of several nations. Powell wasn't alone.

[kcvl]

To date there has been no discovery that does not look like a residual or low-level effort growing out of what went on during the time before the Gulf War or when (pre-1998 U.N. inspectors) were still inspecting Iraq," Cordesman said.

He offered several possibilities:

—Without U.S. intelligence spotting them, the Iraqis destroyed their weapons programs, either in a deliberate manner in the 1990s because of the inspections, or perhaps in a panic before the recent war.

—The Iraqis hid the weapons so well that U.S. weapons hunters still cannot find them, a prospect Cordesman regarded as unlikely given the months of searching by U.N. and U.S. representatives.

—The Iraqis reduced their efforts to small-scale research programs, with plans to ramp up activities once U.N. penalties were lifted. Any production lines were never activated before the war.

—The administration has found some evidence of more widespread programs but is keeping it secret despite international pressure to justify its invasion of Iraq.

[BlackVeil]

Actually the UN documented the supposed stockpiles of WMDs Iraq had, as did the intelligence agencies of several nations.

Yes, the UN was full on with those claims, and used it as the rationale for the sanctions.

One detail was interesting. You know Richard Butler, the Australian guy who was chief weapons inspector - always raving in the media about the WMD Iraq threat?

When the invasion was brewing, it turned out that he opposed it. He said that what was needed was more sanctions, more inspections (and more jobs for him and his ilk, but that wasn't stated.) He was interviewed, on Australian tv, on the eve of the Iraq war, in a street in Sydney. The journalist said to him - but the US will soon be going in to Iraq - now will be the time when all your claims will be proved true, and Scott Ritter will be discredited and ...

Butler looked horrified. At that moment, you could see it in his face. He didn't want the WMD claims put to any such test. He earnestly said that the situation was "complex", and regardless of what "might or might not be found in Iraq" his work was always justified, etc. etc.

This was such a sudden change of front. It was at then that doubt entered my mind about the whole WMD story.

[kcvl]

Chasing Saddam's Weapons

Interview with David Kay...


You've talked about the necessity to speak to Iraqis. Have you had problems there? What has happened to some of the individuals who have come forward and spoken to you?

A number of Iraqis report that they're under threat. The two cases that disturb us the most are two Iraqis who-- One of whom was killed right after being talked to by us. He was shot in the back of his head. Now it's possible it's a robbery, but my familiarity with robberies is usually they steal something, and they just don't shoot you. In his case, nothing was stolen. Another very important source to us on the biological program, took six bullets to his body, and it's only by the grace of God that he's still alive. Others report routinely that they're under threats, and we're trying to deal with that.


David Kay...

No one doubts that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction pre-1991. But 13 years of U.N. activity, including Dr. Blix, was unable to confirm that the Iraqis had actually gotten rid of all those weapons as they claim. So even if there is just the remotest possibility that some of those weapons still remain, don't we owe an obligation to the Iraqi citizenry, now that we're controlling the country, to ensure that those weapons are not used by one political faction or the other against them? Don't we have an obligation to surrounding countries in this region to see that those weapons don't leak and move to other countries and be used by one group or the other there?

So that's the pressure that drives us. The pressure to find out the truth has absolutely nothing to do with whether one or the other dossier or briefing was right or wrong in trying to prove or disprove that. We need to know what the situation was here.

I genuinely believe that 60, 70, maybe 100 years from now, people will still be finding things in this country that we didn't know related to the Saddam empire. He buried a tremendous amount of stuff. He hid stuff. It's a huge country with a relatively small population in a central area. So I think people will be digging things up.

So we won't have the 100 percent solution. We will have an understanding. I think we'll have the evidence, so independent people, including journalists, can examine it and say, "Yes, that evidence supports that conclusion," or "Does it?" That's our objective -- to get in the public domain, at the end of the day, the full record of Saddam's WMD program.

[Jorge]

First of all EVERYBODY knows there were WMDs. We just don't know what happened to them.

Secondly, EVERBODY agrees that that world is better off without Saddam..so it is all academic.
If you are on the right side of this debate, why are you nit-picking over the WMDs? Are you a Saddam supporter?

[DentsRun]

But why did he go through with it if it he knew it was bullshit (and it was)? Why did he not resign in protest?

I think it's because Powell didn't have as much character as many of us thought he did.

[Enduring Freedom]

Who cares?

This is not about WMD. It is about meeting the challenge of War by the Islamoterrorists.

Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife. All his friends. Burn his damn house down.

America is too metrosexual right now to get the reality of what we are facing. Thanks to Bill Clinton and Socialism, we think we are going to bullshit our way out of war.

The Russians have just forced the surrender of key Chechnyan terrorists by kidnapping their relatives.

Releasing the Bin Laden family was inept, naive and incompetent.

We can thank terrorism czar Richard Ashol Clarke for that.

[Archangelsk]

Releasing the Bin Laden family was inept, naive and incompetent.

We can thank terrorism czar Richard Ashol Clarke for that.

How you make the connection between these two non-sequitors is beyond me, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.

[ex-snook]

After the aspirin factory bombing and the yellow cake forgery from Africa, it was obvious that the 'intelligence' community was passing along false information. Since no one has been ousted it follows that the 'intelligence' was made to order. Powell drank the hemlock as a truth-telling spokesman for the US. He might as well resign and write a book.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Blix believed in February 2003 that Iraq was qualitatively disarmed on WMD. It's all about what we knew to be factual on the eve of war. On the eve of war, Ritter, Blix, and others were right, apparently.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Kay and Tenet have both spoken of an unnamed liar who is living just fine now despite lying to us.

[Headfulofghosts]

we know where the guy is living in luxary somewhere, so that's why we send a covert operation and eliminate him.

[Merdoug]

"They difinitely DID have weapons of mass destruction! I mean, I'm PRETTY SURE they had WMD,.......uh,...I think they had WMD,.......ummmmmm,.....maybe the DIDN'T have WMD,.....but THAT DOESN'T MATTER! That's NOT why we went into Iraq! We went into Iraq to,.....ummm,....free the people from a dictator! YEAH! That's it! Free them from a dictator! That's the ticket!"
I believe this is called "rationalization".
I was not for the war. I did not see a reason for it. We invaded a soverign nation. Saddam was scum, but not any more than half a dozen OTHER dictators around the world. WHY DID WE INVADE IRAQ? Come on, Folks. Face the truth. Bush WANTED to invade Iraq. I bet he planned to invade Iraq before 9/11 even HAPPENED. I don't know why. I DON'T believe it was for "the oil", but it certainely wasn't for the reason they have given us.
One more thing: it really GALLS me when, just because a person is against a war, they are AUTOMATICALLY labeled as being against the men and women fighting in that war. NO ONE supports the troops more than me, even if I don't think this war is just. I am proud of every one of them.

[txrangerette]

Get a clue. Iraq wasn't Haiti &
Saddam wasn't Aristide. It's the
Middle East, a Terror source for
the whole world. Saddam shot at
our pilots every day, refusing to
abide by the conditional ceasefire
from '91 when he had invaded
Kuwait. He harbored Terrorists &
paid for suicide bombings. His
scientists were capable of quickly
bringing WMD into production, use.
He thumbed his nose at the world
for 12 years about WMD. Just about
everyone believed he had them &
would use them. You're isolating
on GWB. You are a fraud, or dumb.

Can't decide...

[Milligan]

I think we will still find WMD. Maybe I'm a optimist. I feel all the stuff the coalition is finding is classified at this moment until the investigation/inspection is finished. Going into Iraq was the right thing. Saddam was like that drunk driver on the road and everyone in town is too afraid to take his license away because he has a bad temper. We can't wait around for the UN to make up their mind for another twelve years of inspections saying "maybe, might have, we assess he has them." If you have a man like Saddam who thinks his another Hammurapi who is dabbling with WMD, committed genocide with his own people and used these awful weapons against his neighbors. How many dictators do that? Bush and Blair were just taking his power away. For those who are concerned about the environment he was setting oil field ablaze and draining the marshes. He damaging the eco-system. How many dictators do that? Bush made a decision based on Saddam's history and we can't wait around for small amounts of wmd to go to terrorist hands with his erratic behavior. That's justification enough. Dr. Kay in his Jan 2004 said the Iraqi's were thinking about restarting the nuke program but could not acquire the uranium. They were researching and developing CBW. They experimented the stuff on their own prisoner's. They had long range missles to carry conventional and unconventional weapons which were not permitted by the UN. Also unmanned drones to dispense CBW which was not permitted by the UN. In the military we had to take a course in NBC weapons and their effects. I came out of that class feeling really down. How could people treat each other so crueling and create such terrible weapons. With a nuke, if your lucky to be at ground zero...you will be vaporized. But chemical and biological weapons are really insidious. They maim, disfigure or kill scores of people. It's a slow terrible death. Did you know the VX nerve gas is activated by dual purpose ingredients; water and bleach! Do we really need another small pox outbreak? I don't care if they find a lunch box filled with weapons of mass of destruction it worth going in and doing our own inspection. Now the UN is all upset because we just upstaged them because they are incompetent.. and taking bribes from Saddam with the food for oil progam. This is not rationalization but using reasoning.

[archy]

Trailers *here*.

Labs *here*.