H.J. Heinz Company Seeks to Keep Name Out of Presidential Race

miami.com ^ | Mon, Mar. 29, 2004 | James O'Toole

[Destro]

Heinz Company Does Not Outsource - Those who say so don't know what outsourcing means

Posted on Mon, Mar. 29, 2004

H.J. Heinz Company Seeks to Keep Name Out of Presidential Race

By James O'Toole, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News

Kerry has repeatedly denounced "Benedict Arnold CEOs" who move American jobs overseas. In a major speech in Detroit yesterday, Kerry proposed changes in corporate tax laws designed to reduce incentives for American firms to transfer jobs and operations abroad.

The Heinz company's statement defended its foreign manufacturing operations, noting that they serve local markets around the world rather than producing goods for the domestic market. Sixty percent of the company's sales are outside the United States.

[Destro]

I posted this because many conservatives like Sean Hannity look stupid harping on the fact that Heinz has foreign manufacturing operations as a way to blast Kerry.

The fact is outsourcing is when something that used to be manufactured-serviced in America is exported and then re-introduced into America's domestic market.

Manufacturing something outside the USA for sale in a local foreign market is not outsourcing. In fact the food business can't manufacture food in the USA for export or import manufactured food products easily because they might spoil. Coca-Cola and Macdonalds all create local manucaturing for their products. Macdonald's went so far as to show the Russians how to plant and grow Macdonald sized potatoes.

Republicans need to smarten up or we will lose this election. We sound like idiots to people in swing states that know what outsourcing is and isn't.

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[anniegetyourgun]

Not half as funny as Kerry's "Benedict Arnold corporations" statement sounds to most of America!

[lt.america]

What is the life expectancy on a bottle of unopened, sealed, bottle of ketchup?

[thoughtomator]

Republicans need to smarten up...

True.

...or we will lose this election

Not a Jew's chance in Mecca for that to happen.

[Destro]

"Benedict Arnold corporations" according to Kerry are those that outsource. Deal with that issue. Are they or are they not? Explain why outsourcing is good for business. That is how to argue the charge. Rather the moron conervatives shoot themselves in the foot because they accept this argument by implying Heinz is also such an outsourcing company. In doing so - they accept the argument that outsourcing is bad and that is a plus for Democrats.

[Sybeck1]

Still not buying Heinz. Let Teresa announce this publicly and I might reconsider.

[VOA]

Republicans need to smarten up or we will lose this election. We sound like idiots
to people in swing states that know what outsourcing is and isn't.

Agreed.
Folks like Hannity and others should have instead said
"Hey Teresa and John, if you care so much, how about importing a few
hundred thousand jobs from your foreign subsidiaries! Oh, I guess you won't because...
that wouldn't make ECONOMIC SENSE in the running of your business."

Or, Teresa and John could be given a laudatory (Forbes Magazine-style) for having the
shrewdness to just create lots of jobs overseas in the first place...
no need for the ugly mess of kicking Americans off their payrolls;
Evil Republicans could learn a lot from you guys!

[Destro]

I am in the business in a way. It would cost more to import export condiments (packaging - transportation - customs costs) then to produce it locally for sale locally.

Even in the USA Coca-Cola and other such products are produced locally for regions because to manufacture such food items in one location would make them more expensive as you move farther from the source of manufacturing. That is why you have local soda bottling companies in America, etc.

[templar]

The fact is outsourcing is when something that used to be manufactured-serviced in America is exported and then re-introduced into America's domestic market.

Correct. A concept that that seems to elude so many, even FReepers.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Shipping costs are also a factor. If I were producing bulk commodities for consumption in overseas markets, I would produce as close to raw materials sources and distribution centers as possible.

[Destro]

This has nothing to do with his poltics - but facts wise Sean Hannity unlike Rush is so devoid of knowledge it is painful to hear him sometimes. What is his educational background? Did he even go to college? All he does is argue talking points that someone else wrote up for him it seems.

[joesbucks]

You trying to get zotted? Remember, this site is for the election or Bush, Republicans and the defeat of democrats. Making sense doesn't count if you're on the "wrong" side of making sense.

[Destro]

So I should stop thinking rationally and independently and get with the program-ignore facts and stop slamming radio personalities who are inaccurate?

[Jackson Brown]

Great post. Hannity -- and other "shoot from the hip" pundits -- can be a real dunderheads.

WE benefit from foreign companies manufacturing here for US consumptrion, just like Heinz does for foreign consumption...some 6-7 million US jobs exist here because of the foreign corporations setting up facilities here. One example is Japanese car makers who make larger cars and SUVs here that are NOT sold overseas...just to US citizens

The BEST "Heinz" target they should aim at is the Heinz Foundation -- run by Theresa and their activities, especially their ties to the Tides Foundation. This is where there is some really far left wing activities going on. The problem is they woudl have to do some real research -- not just a quick Google/Lexis Nexis search -- and that takes lot of time and skill.

[Prime Choice]

'Scuse me, but have you noticed that Heinz products for sale in the United States have an annoying habit of being manufactured and bottled in Mexico?

Tell me how that's not outsourcing.

[joesbucks]

Absolutely, if it hurts our side by pointing out our errors in a public way.

[Destro]

The BEST "Heinz" target they should aim at is the Heinz Foundation -- run by Theresa and their activities

Awesome point. High-five.

[cookcounty]

So if 60% of Boeing's sales are outside the US, if 60% of their aircraft assembly is outside the country, is that outsourcing or not? Senator Kerry would say it is. To be consistent, Heinz should be classified the same way.

[Destro]

If it is all produced in Mexico - that is not outsourcing. To be honest I have not seen any made in mexico ketchup or salsas etc. I also live far from Mexico. Thus it would make no sense to truck such products to the North. They are produced locally.

Now if you live near Mexico it would maek sense because depsite the border its only a drive away from manufacture to market.

[Destro]

No it is not. Sales that stay outside of the USA is not outsourcing.

[OpusatFR]

I think most people know that Heinz manufactures and sells to the local market.

But,

I want to know about Kerry's tax plan on corporations doing business that is actual outsourcing. He plans to change the tax codes on those corporations but leave in place the tax as it stands for those American corporations doing business overseas in their local markets.

That would benefit Heinz from how I read it. Of course, I may not understand what he proposes.

Care to clarify?

[anniegetyourgun]

Believe me, I understand your underlying premise, and have no problem with your nuance. However, I still find the Ben Arnold analogy made by Kerry to be amusing. Almost "histrionic"....so to speak. This from the most bought and paid for guy in the Senate!

[VOA]

What is his educational background? Did he even go to college? All he does is argue
talking points that someone else wrote up for him it seems.

IIRC he was in college in California (UCSB?) on the campus station...and some
mis-treatment from the usual liberal contingent sent him off on his career.
I don't know if he degreed or not.

I don't listen to Hannity much (Michael Medved is on a competing station at that time slot).
But, my quick impression is that Hannity is well-intentioned, impassioned,
but not operating at the same level of discourse as Medved, Dennis Prager
or Hugh Hewitt.
And I'm NOT saying that to disparage Hannity; it's a bit talk-radio world with
room for lots of flavors.

Actually, I was favorably impressed with Hannity's two-episode appearance on
Dr. James Dobson's "Focus On The Family", which was restricted (due to tax-code
restrictions) to moral/religional topics from Hannity's book "Deliver Us From Evil".
Hannity showed himself to have a good grasp on his topic and relevant history.

[TaxRelief]

Actually, "outsourcing" is the practice of hiring an independent company to produce a portion of the overall marketable product or to perform support services.

For instance, Company A may have a human resources department. Company B may outsource their payroll, their temporary workers program and their benefits administration to Administaff and ADP.

"Offshoring" is the practice of moving a portion of a company's production to a plant outside of US boundaries.

"Offshore outsourcing" is the practice of buying a portion of a company's production from a producer outside of US boundaries.

---

[Destro]

Smart line of questioning. We need more people like you.

[joesbucks]

Unfortunately it seems that Hannity is repeating the words from cue cards rather than engage in debate and deep thinking. I call it surface conservatism. It's the flavor of the day, from the fax of the moment.

It's so curious to listen to talk radio or Fox news and listen to both conservative and liberal commentators/guests use the same talking point words show after show. Sad.

[speekinout]

facts wise Sean Hannity unlike Rush is so devoid of knowledge

Hmm, I would say it's just the opposite. I sometimes have to turn Rush off, because I get so frustrated at his lack of knowledge. I listen to Sean because he gets the facts - and I am mostly talking about tapes that he replays and quotes he cites, so there is no question that he is giving accurate information.

[NHResident]

"Kerry has repeatedly denounced "Benedict Arnold CEOs" who move American jobs overseas. In a major speech in Detroit yesterday, Kerry proposed changes in corporate tax laws designed to reduce incentives for American firms to transfer jobs and operations abroad.

The Heinz company's statement defended its foreign manufacturing operations, noting that they serve local markets around the world rather than producing goods for the domestic market. Sixty percent of the company's sales are outside the United States."

For the economic 'whiz-kids' who are parsing comments by conservative pundits and appearing on this site and calling everyone names because Heinz is not strictly 'outsourcing' merely building plants overseas - Kerry's attack is economically stupid, corporately irresponsible but 'red meat' to his economically ignorant base - Kerry's attack is 'cleverly' ambiguous but fundamentally he slanders ands wants to prohibit CEO's from creating jobs 'off-shore' not simply for 'outsourcing' them. Heinz, in the best interest of its customers, doing exactly that. You have to READ what he says and UNDERSTAND what he is doing.

By Kerry's reasoning, it doesn't make any difference WHY Heinz builds plants overseas - by the fact they create jobs outside the US they are guilty.

Also, note that Teresa et al have 'diversified' their investments - they haven't 'divested' themselves of all Heinz stock - they still benefit to the tune (I suspect based on other public information about their ownership) of multiple millions of dollars per year.
-----

[lt.america]

You are exactly right, much the same for foreign countries who chose to outsource there manufacturing facilities to the US. The definition of outsourcing is probably what is being abused in these arguments. Bottom line, can Heinz produce their products in the US and export abroad? I say yes. Is it economically sensible. I say no. Welcome to the world economy. But Rush and many of the others and just using the word the way the opposition is.

[fuquadukie]

The fact is outsourcing is when something that used to be manufactured-serviced in America is exported and then re-introduced into America's domestic market.

You are partially correct. In the case of services, such as call centers, outsourcing is when the service is moved overseas and the Company still services its domestic customers.

Unfortunately, it seems as though your correct position is falling on deaf errors with many around here.

You are absoutely correct in that the uniformed and misguided attacks on a Company such as H.J. Heinz are made by those who should know better, including Sean Hannity and any of the local yokel talk radio personalities.

I tend to think some outsourcing is good for business. Listen, my Company does it every day... We used to produce things in Pennsylvania. Got too expensive relative to someone producing the same goods down South... ergo, the jobs "disappear" in Pennsylvania. My Company makes money, we survive and, hopefully, grow. We stay competitive.

I made an offer on another Company yesterday. You bet your sweet bippy I'll source some products from Southeast Asia, in addition to certain domestic products... both same products and new products. Smart business sense. I'm a businessperson, not a charity.

[stylin19a]

Ding Ding Ding ! We have a winner.

[Big Horn]

They have been the source of a radical leftist.

[templar]

Outsourcing, off shoring, etc. have to do with taking production of (formerly) domestically produced goods and services, sold on the domestic market, and moving their production overseas while the consumption remains here. Opening subsidiaries, or plants, overseas to produce goods and services for sale on the overseas market is not the same thing and many people do not understand this. One removes jobs producing things for domestic consumption from the domestic labor market while still selling those things on that market, the other does not.

An example of off shoring is the announced move of the American Flyer wagon plant from the United States to China this week. American Flyer wagons are currently being made in the United States with American labor and sold on the American market. With this move American Flyer wagons will be made in China, by an American company, and sold on the American market: the product will still be here, the jobs making it will now be in China.

[anniegetyourgun]

You make my points so much better than I can. But, alas, I fear they will fall on deaf ears of those who have an agenda for what they would call "kneepad Freepers." Sigh....they will never be satisfied with my vote to retain this president.

[EternalHope]

Ok, I believe 'em. And it makes no difference.

I refuse to buy anything made by Heinz because part of the company is owned by Teresa Heinz Kerry. That's a good enough reason all by itself.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Not to split hairs, but don't you mean Radio Flyer wagons?

[Loyal Buckeye]

I agree with your point; however, under John Flip-flop's rules of politics, Heinz should be producing all output in the states and exporting to other countries.

Also, I'll bet you a giant size of Heinz ketchup that not all the tomato pickers in these other countries have health care and are paid a "living wage", but are slaves picking for about 2 cents per bushel.

[Maria S]

"I don't listen to Hannity much (Michael Medved is on a competing station at that time slot)."

Same here; I really enjoy Medved! He is incredibly informed on almost everything, it seems to me. I reckon Sean H. does have a place on the radio, but his continual sparring and bickering with callers gets on my nerves at times. His hour of "April Fooling" on Thursday was pretty silly, IMHO.

[M-cubed]

It would cost more to import export condiments (packaging - transportation - customs costs) then to produce it locally for sale locally. << Not necessarily so now with produce...check your local grocery store....

[cricket]

"Republicans need to smarten up or we will lose this election. We sound like idiots to people in swing states that know what outsourcing is and isn't."

Hannity did not say specifically that Heinz 'outsources' in the finer definition. . .

Hannity did challenge the Heinz/Kerry couple re just how much money they take in from foreign; rather than domestic operations and while Heinz does not outsource per se; the broader picture behind it is not too different.

Heinz/Kerry benefit; not from the labors of American workers; but workers from around the world, whom Heinz employ;while enhancing the economy of these foreign locales; while making ketchup/catsup a local condiment.

Perhaps they should have just bottled the ketchup here. . .and sent it to those markets. Imagine. . .the jobs that would mean, beginning with the tomatoes coming in. . .and those bottles being capped right here and sent to those markets.

That would make this slow-moving sauce from a bottle a luxury item of course, but hey, who cares. . .surely NOT, John Kerry; he certainly cannot appreciate - and why should he - how outsourcing increases the buying power by lowering prices for the American consumer.

Of course, Heinz and their history of making Ketchup. . .is a facetious argument; but then so is Kerry being more than facetious when he speaks of the ill-gotten spoils; and the losses of 'outsourcing' - which in reality. . .bring money and jobs; right back home. Kerry is not stupid; just truth-challenged.

Kerry's issues rest in the 'fraudulent'; he cannot tell the truth; because he has to lie in order to convince people to vote for him and so do agree with you actually, in the end. . .Repubs would be better served, if they would challenge the Kerry cadre with a truth more specific, so that they must come up with better lies, for their defense.

[M-cubed]

So I should stop thinking rationally and independently and get with the program-ignore facts and stop slamming radio personalities who are inaccurate?" << Hell No!..then you'd be a democrat!...

[M-cubed]

Strange isnt it....Foreign cars manufactured in the USA...Fords Chevys and Chrysler products manufactured in Canada and Mexico..

[TaxRelief]

Heinz manufactures and sells Heinz products inside and outside of the US. The fact is, though, that Heinz has only 22 of its 79 factories in the US even though 60% of its profits come from US sales.

[A. Morgan]

It's too late ... I'm on a ZERO Heinz diet and I'm enjoying it so much .. I'll probably never go back!

[rocky88]

Did Hannity mention that the Kerry/Heinz's own 4% of the company? I don't hear this mentioned too often, and as we know - 4% of Heinz is equal to hundreds of millions of dollars in stock.

[hope]

Hannity appeals to a wide audience of people who believe he is honest, sincere and share in his moral philosophy. I think what' appealing is he's a family man...Not at all arrogant or grandstanding. Just an ordinary American who has a strong passion for what he believes in. If Hannity has made a mistake on the topic, I'm sure he'd be the first to correct the error if confronted with the facts.

[TaxRelief]

Outsourcing is not synonymous to offshoring. Please see post #25

[TaxRelief]

Weight Watchers is owned by Heinz.

[A. Morgan]

I'm on the South Beach diet.