Skip to comments.We bombed the wrong side?
Posted on 04/06/2004 4:54:40 PM PDT by DTA
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That's why I got so surprised and confused when some people I knew suddenly became anti-Serb in 1998 and 1999. Where exactly did everyone get their strange ideas about Serbs, I wondered?
I still don't know the answer.
Yes, and they knew what they were doing.
Probably because they are afraid if we pull out, it will further destabilize the entire region. And we have this thing that we learned in the history books that the assasination in Sarajevo was the spark that ignited WWI.
I don't know where we go from here. Once we get in a place, we don't seem to like to leave. What a mell of a hess we have made of this.
Notice this is the Canadian press. I don't expect to read anything about this in the American press.
I guess what really bothers me is that the planners and shakers want people to learn to live with other ethnic groups. That is simply asking too much for some people. Sad, but true. If people don't play by civilized rules, you cannot force them to live together in peace. It doesn't really even work all that well in America, but the law keeps things in check for now.
"It is a relief when American foreign policy rises from imperialism, if only to arrive at fatuity"-----but our assault on Kosovo, Belgrade, and Serbia is beyond any excuse.
Hey I don't like Serbs when they interfere with some issues in Macedonia.
I don't like Serb criminals that have turned patriots but in fact are still criminals like Arkan and few others.
I like Arkans wife. She is very pretty and has a great voice. :))
I like the Serbs as when they tend to do something they go all the way i.e. they are persistant.
I didn't like them when Dubrovnik was bombed in 1991 for no military aim or gain.
You have seen lots of Yugoslavs (Serbs and Croatians) you just don't know it.
Vlado Divac basketball player (Serb) and Mira Furlan (Croatian) actress in Babylon 5 here is the website:
We've GOT TO get out of Kosovo and give it back to Serbia. If this precedent is allowed to stand, the UN is going to be here demanding that we hand Texas and California over to Mexico on the same stupid basis inside of five years.
I honestly think this is not beyond the pale for about ten years from now. Freepers should run this country. I think this may be the only sane place left on earth.
Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow) MP
Sometimes - not very often - a colleague makes a speech in this Chamber that states a problem more eloquently than one could have done oneself. As one who raised the issue of Kosovo and was granted a private notice question on the subject on Monday, I can only say that the speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, South (Mike Gapes) should be read by all who have to make decisions on that desperately difficult problem in the Balkans. I am glad that he referred to the nickel factory.
I shall simply relate a personal experience, and I hope to be forgiven for crudity. I went to stay for four days in Kosovo with my national service regiment, the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, which was on duty there. In the presence of the then colonel, David Allfrey, and the then second in command, now colonel of the regiment, Ben Edwards, I was able to talk at length with some of the local Albanian leaders. I would not have had that conversation had not the guns of the British Army been behind me, because they were pretty rough customers. They were truculent, saying, to put it crudely, "Of course we're going to winwe have the power of the penis." By that, they meant that they were going to use population to achieve their objectivegreater Albania. Some of us who opposed involvement in Kosovo from the beginning thought that we were being taken for a ridetwisted around the little finger of people whose agenda was very different from what Britain and the United States thought they wanted. The way in which we were manipulated by the Albanians must teach us a lesson.
Last week, with the Inter-Parliamentary Union, some hon. Members had long and serious discussions with the incoming Serbian delegation. My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, South was present and my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Mrs. Mahon) chaired the meeting, and they will bear out my account. The Serbs said, among other things, that it was all very well to talk about rebuilding Belgrade, but the old buildings were constructed under the Austro-Hungarian empire, so the centre of their capital city could not be rebuilt unless every stone was taken down and construction started again. Bitterness is mounting, and my impression, which my colleagues might share, was of a highly dangerous and explosive situation. People say that it will take between $30 billion and $100 billion to improve the position.
Alice Mahon (Halifax) MP
Mrs. Alice Mahon (Halifax) (Lab): I, too, will try to cut my speech down and keep it brief.
We had to deploy an extra 750 troops to Kosovo last week. The entire violent episode exposed the character of the Albanian separatists, some with terrorist and criminal links, who are now in leading positions of power in that province. The Kosovo Liberation Army never disbanded. It simply became the Kosovo Protection Corps. Agim CekuI name him againthe man who ethnically cleansed the Krajina, is in charge of the Kosovo Protection Corps.
I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, South (Mike Gapes) that what we saw last week was a flagrant example of ethnic cleansing: 3,500 Serbs were burned out of their homes by well organised gangs and joined the 200,000 who have been expelled from the province during the past five years. Those people are scattered all around Serbia and Montenegro in camps. The hon. Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall) and I, as officers of the joint group on Yugoslavia, visited some of those camps. I wish other hon. Members would take the trouble to do so. I am pleased that the spotlight is again on those forgotten ethnically cleansed people. Maybe now note will be taken of them.
The violent attacks against the Serbs and other minorities have gone on under the UN, KFOR and so-called protection force administration since the military campaign ended. It is inconceivable to me and many others in the House that thousands of troops from 30 countries are unable to protect the Serbs and other minorities living in the province. Between June 1999 and last week there were 6,923 attacks on the minorities by the Albanian separatists. I make a distinction between them, and people like Dr. Rugova and the men and women of peace in the Albanian community, but the separatists are in charge and they want an ethnically pure state and a greater Albania. Why else would they destroy 154 churches and monasteries? Why else would they want to wipe out a whole culture and eliminate diversity? Their aim is a greater Albania. I am old enough to remember another regime in Europe that sought to eliminate other races and cultures. The consequences for Europe and the world were disastrous.
The latest outbreak of ethnic cleansing was well organised. The Secretary General of NATO, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, accused the Kosovo Albanians and said:
"What happened last week, orchestrated and organised by the extremist factions in the Albanian community, is unacceptableit should be condemned and it's a shame."
25 Mar 2004 : Column 1129
The UN spokesman said that more than 50,000 people took part in the violence. Only 163 have been arrested. The mob also turned against KFOR and the UN. We know, too, of the tragic killing of two UN policemen.
KFOR must take immediate steps to provide effective protection for the minority communities living under siege. The war criminals such as Agim Ceku and Hashim Thaci who give the Albanian community such a bad name should be arrested and taken to The Hague. UNMIK, which on several occasions has tried to overturn warrants and criminal proceedings against Ceku, should stop doing that.
Let me say something about the links between the separatists and other extremist Islamic groups. On 15 October 2003, a GIS/Defence and Foreign Affairs reportthere have been regular reports since the 1970sindicated that Ceku was directly engaged in support of Albanian-trained Islamic terrorists, and noted:
"During the first half of August 2003 300 Albanian-trained guerrillas including approximately 10 mujahedin (non-Balkan Muslims) were infiltrated across the Albanian border into Kosovo, where many have subsequently been seen in the company (and homes) of members of the so-called Kosovo Protection Corps. The guerrillas were trained in three camps inside the Albanian border at the towns Bajram Curi, Tropoja and Kuks where camps have been in operation since 1997".
From visits to Interpol as a representative on the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, I know that some extremists in Albania and the Kosovo Liberation Army have links with al-Qaeda. Kosovo is in the hands of mafia extremists, organised crime is the main economic activity, and the sinister link to terrorism is definite. I agree with my hon. Friends, and, in particular, with my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Clare Short), that we must have a serious discussion about the final settlement in Kosovo, because the issue will not go away.
Albania? US? EU?
we all know what happened, we all know about the Serbian churches, but 99.9% of Canadians and Americans don't have a clue about this stuff...
just like, unless you read FR, you wouldn't have known about the atrocities in Haiti during the "peaceful" rule of Aristide.....
honestly, there is such a dirth of infomation about true world affairs...other than clintoons.....
how can the younger generations have any perspective if they have no world views at all.....
What was he a professor of? Was he a liberal? What religion was he?
100% correct. Our childrens' children will most likely be still paying for it.....
Only us here at FR I guess.
Was Dubrovnik bombed? Yes.
The old city was hit by medium caliber shells and the harbour was hit with small anti-tank missiles.
I didn't read I was simply watching the news in 1991. Small Anti-tank AT-3 Sagger missiles hit the walls doing little damage and hit several boats. Some hit roof tops. It was a waste of wire guided missiles with no military gain.
Were the Croatians drawing fire? Most probably.
In all it was waste of time on the Serb side and the only result was bad publicity for them.
A Macedonian admiral Bocinov in the Yugoslav navy was on a ship near the city of Split in Croatia when he was ordered to bomb it. The order was so stupid that he refused it and got sacked on the spot.
This out of top of my head so I could be wrong.
With understanding of how the KLA can organized a Kosovo wide riot i.e. ethnic cleansing, one must ponder on the strong possibility the the mass exodus of Albanians during the time of the NATO bombing was in fact organized as well. An AK47 is a great motivator to move on down the road.
I do believe like the so called Racak massacre that every large scale event in kosovo was orchestrated by the KLA and the latest riots and the dead Serbs prove this. This article is well written and provides the world of how the KLA operates which I had the opertunity to see for myself back in 1999/2000. The Serbian VJ and MUP will be back into Kosovo in soon because I do believe NATO will be very busy in other parts of the world in the very near future. Nothing happens in Kosovo unless the KLA decide it is going to happen, Racak was an example like the recent riots. Its time to give up the idea that there can be peace in Kosovo. The only result of that wet dream will be the genocide of the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. I do believe the KLA and those that support them deserve what is coming to them and its a big ugly storm on the horizon. Once again the Serbs are on the front line of the Muslim invaders but I do hope that they are fair with those Albanians that wish to remain in Kosovo peacefully.
Clinton and the democrats have made the muslims mascots to be supported when they can. Like the gays, blacks, hispanics, etc. So we bombed the non-muslims but they were not to be appeased.
``I had no idea that it was a Serb pressure group who were paying for my speaking tour. When I found out I gave the money to Aids research in Canada.''
That was 1994 - one wonders who he would donate his blood money to this time.
The need to rationalize the failure of one's mission by delegitimizing it is a fascinating phenomenon. It's interesting to see the different approaches to the problem taken by the likes of Rose and Mackenzie vs. Dalliare or Smith.
Hey, Mackenzie - did you say that?
Kinda living in the proverbial glass house when you're talking about 'gibberish', Zoran. You asked for a source, I gave it to you. If you don't like that I can actually back up my posts whereas you're talking out your fourth point of contact most of the time, it's up to you to change your behavior, not cast aspersions on mine.
Problem is, you have never been to any of the regions you feverishly defend. Yet, you blast others as liars that have been there or have done investigation/s (first-hand).
Don't you get it? Getting serially banned and then coming back asking another poster how you're doing just isn't conducive towards being viewed as a reputable source for anything other than unintended humor.
You've got the Serbian strain of the Nationalist bug, Zoran, and it's taken you down hard. You can't be part of any solution because you're part of the problem.
Sorry pal, the truth supplants all lies you foment on here, hoplite. If I have been banned, then sue me. This is the internet hoplite. You can text what ever you desire without proving a darn thing.
Pictures of my being there, doing a CI of the area proves the lies you have posted and what the media has posted (ex of the UNMIK Police Officer being ambushed in Northern Kosovo by "Albanian" gunmen. Whom you claim were Serbs posing as Albanians).
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