Posted on 04/08/2004 11:24:40 AM PDT by Willie Green
Next weekend should prove to be one of much hilarity and light-hearted shenanigans for the 50,000 firearms enthusiasts who will pour into the David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Downtown, for the National Rifle Association's 133rd annual convention.
There probably won't be this many white men packing heat in our city since the 1918 Armistice Day parade.
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
White men? As opposed to. . .?
Funny, but unless you have your PA. permit you ain't pack'n anything but a lunch.
I mean, WTF is this cr@p;
"Find a table specializing in the sort of teflon-coated bullets that are capable of piercing bulletproof vests. Tell the seller you were considering becoming a police officer until you saw them."
1) Black Talons have been illegal for how many years now?
2) If this ijit wasn't such a frickin moron he'd know that almost any 'hunting' rifle bullet will penetrate the type of 'bullet proof' vest police wear. Now I didn't check ballistic stats but maybe even a .22 Swift would too - or any such 'varmint caliber' of high velocity.
Some people need a slappin' and this guy is one of them!
This is Richard Scaife's "center-of-the-vast-right-wing-conspiracy" Tribune-Review. Ya know Dick Scaife? The guy who gave the money to the American Spectator, which dug up dirt on Clinton and the troopers, which led to the Paula Jones lawsuit, which led to Clinton's perjury which led to his impeachment.
The Trib publishes a few liberals, just for laughs. They carry Buchanan, Coulter, Sam Francis and are rock-ribbed conservative on just abotu everything.
SD
STFU, racist b@stard.
(Not you, Willie)
However, the Liberal Media from the Statesman to the NYT and all the TV Networks focused their coverage on a few Leftist Punks that held signs saying things like:
"Arms for Women: Smash the Patriarchy"
"Weapons for the Workers Revolution"
"Guns for Gays! Kill the Bashers!"
It was really sad, thousands of Proud NRA Members from around the State came to Austin only to have the media attention stolen by some college punks.
This ignoramus needs to know that the KLAN is the big reason for a lot of anti-gun and anti-CCW laws in the Midwest.
Michigan's bad laws are all from the 1920's (1927 I think) and it was the KKK that gave us a system where the elite could carry, but "they" sure couldn't. Registration is part of that law too.
I wonder if he is even conscious of the fact that anyone engaging in the behavior he recommmends as "funny" would be ejected forthwith from any gun show or gun shop in the country.
I have long suspected that it is not the guns per se that people like this hate and fear, but those Americans who own and use them. Such Americans, after all, are capable of defending their Liberty with most any implements at hand, even if they are not firearms. They also are 100% willing to do so.
But the ever-stereotyping Left regards such Americans as hopeless, trailer-dwelling rednecks who cannot wait to hang a black person from the nearest tree or empty an AK into an abortion clinic. They, the Left, are "sophisticated", you see, far more than those hillbillys with their pickups, Camaros, and guns.
History has shown that many people just LIKE to have someone to look down their noses at. For the Left is is gunowners. They apply all the "redneck" stereotypes to us, which to their minds makes us incapable of exercising this most important Right.
From his article, one can get a picture of how he sees gunowners and how he sees himself in relation to them.
He sees us as moronic hicks at best and white racist militia members at worst. His stereotype does not allow for the presence among lawful gunowners of Blacks. Even if he were to go to a gunshow, he would ignore or dismiss the presence there of any Black men he saw.
He sees HIMSELF as more "sophisticated" and "hip" than anyone who would choose to own a gun or join the NRA. He apparently feels that someone would be able to get away with the buffoonery he recommends because of how "dumb" we are supposed to be.
However, I wouldn't give ten cents for Glasers or Hydra-Shoks. IMHO, they are expensive gimmicks only. Their actual, tested-by -ballistic scientists is quite underwhelming, commensurate with their (outrageous) cost.
Change the word 'white' to 'black' and the author to someone like say, David Duke, and the howls of outrage would be deafening.
L
Pretty much the same thing heard in the late 1960s and early 1970s when Indiana ballistician and ammunition manufacturer began producing the then-innovative line of Super-Vel jacketed hollowpoint ammunition for handgun use.
After all, plain old round-nose lead bullets had been getting the job done-sometimes- since the invention of repeating handguns. Those JHP bullets were surely just a passing fad.
The Glaser, while hitting hard on the surface, tends to under-penetrate, its tiny bb shot producing commensurate tiny wound tracks close to the surface. Its capacity to create a fatal wound is thus decreased. If the "shootee" is wearing heavy clothing or holding his own weapon out in front of him, the problem is compounded.
If he is knocked down, but is still quite able to continue firing, the round has failed.
I remain convinced that a pistol round must do two things well...penetrate deeply enough to reach a vital cardiopulmonary system or nervous system, even when clothing, bone, or such things as car doors are a factor; and expand enough to crush or destroy tissue and organs along the way.
The scientific, verifiable, repeatable tests I've seen published by Dr. Fackler and others do not indicate that such exotic rounds as the Glaser can do this as well as a properly-designed JHP.
Just what they're meant to do; not overpenetrate and exit a human or animal target, but dump all their energy without presenting a hazard to bystanders- the reason they're called *safety* slugs. Special purpose [especially in the overlooked rifle versions] not general purpose.
The wound mechanism from the Glasers is through blood loss and shock rather than penetration. Concur on the problems presented by body armor or heavy clothing. I'm not too woried about *holding his weapon in front* having seen the result of a .380 glaser on a human wrist/arm; the bones were visible for ablut 6 inches between the wwrist and elbow. I expect a round ricocheting off a weapon into the user's hand face and eyes would be similarly inconvent. The Mag-safe rounds or *Glaser Silvers including a mix of heavier shot can be used when cold-weather clothing may be faced, but that's not the purpose I use the things for.
If he is knocked down, but is still quite able to continue firing, the round has failed.
Concur. I do not care if he/she dies, immediately or eventually. I want a cessation of action, immediately. Having been hit twice by an opponent who took multiple hits to his head [two to four] from my 9mm Browning GP, turned to face me and fired, I'm much less concerned with expense than previously, and want effectiveness. Though I'm willing to consider alterneate means of reaching the desired destination.
I remain convinced that a pistol round must do two things well...penetrate deeply enough to reach a vital cardiopulmonary system or nervous system, even when clothing, bone, or such things as car doors are a factor; and expand enough to crush or destroy tissue and organs along the way.
If it strikes the right organs [heart, medulla, Plexus Cœliacus, eyes] expansion need not be a factor; the full-jacket 7,62x25mm rounds I use in my C96 Mauser are meant to deal with vehicle sheet metal and glass and are risky in an urban setting, but are my alternate choice should my usual handgun not be up to the task....or if I want to get the meat out of the shell where it can be diced or cooked. I would also *like* expansion, but if I start with a large diameter projectile in the first place, I'm less concerned about it.
The scientific, verifiable, repeatable tests I've seen published by Dr. Fackler and others do not indicate that such exotic rounds as the Glaser can do this as well as a properly-designed JHP.
Doctor Fackler and others have never been present when I was being shot at or otherwise attacked; four times since I've come to Memphis in 1997. When he has more experience *during* such events and less *after* them, I'll take his scientific observations with less a grain of salt than previously. Since the study of exterior and terminal ballistics is more a matter of probabilities and percentages than certitude, and the empirical results outside the laboratory are subject to even more variance, I'm more inclined to continue with that I've used that has worked as advertised, deviating from the proven formulae only after great deliberation and coinsideration. It is my success and life on the line, not a letter grade on a physics lab experiment, nor an interesting article for a professional journal.
I don't use Glasers, or anything else, in everything I've been known to carry, nor for all circumstances in a couple of the pieces in which I've generally found them very suitable. And you've missed mention of one of their greatest shortfalls, and another inmportant consideration of their use. But I expect to have another new carry handgun soon, which should be serving as a backup to my usual M27 or Commander .45 or my Browning GP, and I expect Mag-Safes rather than Glasers will fill its magazine, at least initially. After I've put a thousand rounds or so through it, I might be sufficiently impressed to carry it solo; but more likely it'll serve as a backup piece.
IMHO, one solution is simply to carry one or two mags loaded with "special-purpose" ammo, to be used if the need for such specialization arises. When my camping gun was a Ruger Redhawk, I carried it with a cylinder stuffed with .44 special JHP's alternated with shotshells for dealing with Florida's more unpleasant denizens (snakes, gators) along with possible two-legged threats. along with that initial loadout, I had two speedloaders, one with full-house .44 Magnum JHP's in case of a bear or some other large predator. I kept a 50-round box with a mix of JHP's, shotshells, and .44 Specials in my backpack.
When carrying my Springfield 1911A1, it contains a mag loaded with 230-grain SXT's, another on my belt, and one mag in my pocket loaded with hardball.
.45 or .357 Sig and you'd almost certainly not have a failure like you said. However, it's quite scary that a few 9mm hits don't stop with good placement.
What ammo was it?
90-grain Super-Vel JHP, chronographed at 1150-1200 FPS in my GP, from that particular lot. I do not think .357 SIG would have been a major improvement, not available in the mid-1970s in any event. But similar results from hot .38 Super were around, and I tried a few variations thereof for use in locales where 9mm and .45 were prohibitado. I could get repeat shots off much faster with the GP, which at that time I had put around 40,000 rounds through, about 15,000 of which was SuperVel, Shelbyville's finest. The usual alternative to .45 GI hardball then was the 185-grain JHP or target wadcutter [ever seen a 185 Remington jacketed wadcutter pushed to 1500 FPS? they turn inside out as the forward reduced diameter portion drives into the full-bore core. Impressive] and I pretty well stuck with hardball .45 in those days.
I saw scalp fly when my first shot hit, so I'm certain it was a hit. My second was placed very carefully but could conceivably have been a miss. The third was another certain hit, and I missed seeing the results of the fourth as his return fire had commenced, from about 35-40 feet, with a cutdown M1 carbine, and his second shot had hit me, as did his fourth and final one, at which point he dropped the bloody carbine and returned back into the woodline from whence he'd made his appearance.
About half an hour later the county sheriff arrived, told me he saw no purpose in excessive paperwork unless it was found that the other fella expired [he didn't] and told me I might as well keep the carbine, that I'd earned it the hard way, but that I needed to get a new barrel on it. I did.
About two years later I ran across the sheriff again, after he'd been voted out of office and had again become a State Trooper. He informed me that they'd received word that my little playmate had been killed in a knife fight up north, where they presumably didn't try to stick him in the head. I was not inclined to send flowers.
Just like the snobbish Brits did in 1775 when they looked down at all the "backwoodsmen" with rifles, who wore shirt type frocks with no coat, and derisively called them "Shirtmen" which is the 1770s version of "redneck".
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