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More copyright complaints
Free Republic | April 8, 2004 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/08/2004 9:19:34 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

As most of you are aware, we've recently received several copyright complaints. In the last few weeks, we've received complaints from the SJ Mercury News, Independent (UK), SF Chronicle and The Boston Globe. Just a couple days ago the Post-Gazette send a cease and desist notice and yesterday I heard from the Tribune-Review.

Tonight, I got a call from Amy and there were two more registered letters at our PO Box. The McClatchy News (Sacramento Bee) and USAToday are now added to the list of publications that have complained about copyright violations.

Well, folks, the handwriting is on the wall. The complaints are now coming in faster than I can respond to them. John is currently in the process of writing programs to search out and automatically excerpt all existing threads from these sources.

I think we're gonna have to go to excerpt and link for all news sources very soon unless we have written permission on file.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stammendment; 2004electionbias; adminlectureseries; bigmedia; bozos; ccrm; complaints; constitution; copyright; copyrightlaw; donotpostlist; excerpt; excerptingarticles; excerpts; fairuse; fr; freerepublic; freerepubliczotted; freespeech; frinthenews; lexicon; mediabias; silencingcritics; zot; zotfreerepublic
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Or, alternativly, as FReepers respond to the posted, excerpted article, they could "quote" the next paragraph in the article, and eventually the whole article is posted anyway, just in bits and pieces ;0)

That's an interesting idea

101 posted on 04/08/2004 10:11:22 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: Lokibob
The traditional "Happy Birthday" song is copyrighted.

The melody, with the possible exception of the dotted-eighth/sixteenth rhythm at the start of each line, is in the public domain as it was published prior to 1922 with the lyrics

Good morning to you
Good morning to you
Good morning dear ____ [or dead Children]
Good morning to all
I am unaware of any copy of the Happy Birthday lyrics having been published prior to 1922, though I've read that at least one pre-1922 publication of the work noted that the song was also titled "Happy Birthday to You" but did not explicitly write out the lyrics. It would seem likely that might be sufficient evidence to disqualify the claimed copyright on the lyrics, but a cartoon in 1935 (Ub Iwerks' Mary's Little Lamb) uses the tune (without lyrics) in such a way as to suggest it was primarily known with the "Good Morning to All" lyrics.

That having been said, I'd like to see a restaurant use something like:

Your birthday's today.
What more can we say?
The tune's out of copyright
ASCAP go away.
BTW, that latter point reminds me--I have on occasion heard restaurant staff singing made-up birthday-song replacements to tunes which, while their origins may not be well known, are more recent than "Good Morning to All" and are, in fact, still under copyright.
102 posted on 04/08/2004 10:11:33 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Make that wondering. Ahem. ; )
103 posted on 04/08/2004 10:11:43 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Lashing out" at Democrats since 1990.)
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To: Indy Pendance
Certainly.
104 posted on 04/08/2004 10:12:28 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
They were one of the early bands (the 60s, I believe) featuring Ronnie James Dio - who then went on to the band Elf, and eventually Rainbow, Black Sabbath, and then solo...
105 posted on 04/08/2004 10:13:05 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Zeppo
Yes, that can happen.
106 posted on 04/08/2004 10:13:05 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Could be lefties, could be major media, could be banned trolls, or it could just be one very upset anti-FReeper

This is orchestrated. Somebody is pulling the media's strings or they've formed their own cobol. DNC, MoveOn.org, etc..... Probably not a whacko fringe group like DU, although I imagine they are very happy about this. Within days, I'd expect to see some stories in the major media about this. We will have to modify our postings, but most of us read just enough of an article to get its jist anyway. This is not a setback.

107 posted on 04/08/2004 10:13:08 PM PDT by umgud (speaking strictly as an infidel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
The jukebox is owned by a vendor that supplies stuff like that and it's license does not cover live music or karaoke.
108 posted on 04/08/2004 10:14:18 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: umgud
This is not a setback at all. As the old saying goes, "What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger."
109 posted on 04/08/2004 10:15:05 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Here is a good overview of copyright written in layman's language:

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/index.html

110 posted on 04/08/2004 10:15:29 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: umgud
Yup. Gotta watch out for that COBOL... been around forever... < shudder >
111 posted on 04/08/2004 10:15:46 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Jim Robinson
Or we could add some money to the quarterly budget and buy a LexisNexis account and then distribute the password to everyone who pays their dues. (or something similar). FReepers would be able to dig out articles that have been yanked and then post a paragraph or two when it's relevant.

This wouldn't solve the current problem, but it may help counteract this power play on their part.

Nothing would terrorize the Left more than hundreds or thousands of bored, inquisitive FReepers with nothing to do but LexNex. :-)
112 posted on 04/08/2004 10:16:16 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Chad Fairbanks
"Or, alternativly, as FReepers respond to the posted, excerpted article, they could "quote" the next paragraph in the article,...."

That was my thought also.

They can try to shut us down, but I am sure we can figure out ways to get around it.

113 posted on 04/08/2004 10:16:31 PM PDT by Spunky (This little tag just keeps following me where ever I go.)
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To: jpsb
What were the fees like for Live/Karaoke? (Like I said - it's been well over a decade since I've been involved in this kind of stuff)
114 posted on 04/08/2004 10:16:43 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: LasVegasMac
I rudely interrupted and asked, "So you think Bill Clinton getting blow jobs in the Oval Office was ok? You think that the sitting President lying to the public about that was ok??? My, my, you do have low standards, don't you! That's ok, we don't have very high expectations for Democrats, either." She doesn't talk sh*t anymore.

*L* .. I use to get the kind of stuff from my brother in law

One day he goes off on me about how Clinton has his full support no matter what

So I said .. Fine .. you want to fully support a man who has been accused of raping a women .. Go For It

The room went dead silent .. including my brother inlaw :0)

115 posted on 04/08/2004 10:16:47 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
We'll just have to paraphrase. Or how about using frames? For example, a frame in the middle with content directly from NYT, within a larger FR frame. It would take some recoding of the forum but I suspect it'd satisfy them and us.
116 posted on 04/08/2004 10:17:26 PM PDT by AM2000
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To: Jim Robinson
Was this from "USA Today" or was it from GANNETT? which is their parent company.

USA Today is owned by Gannett and is their main paper.

They also own all these here at this link

The Lansing State Journal and Detroit News are two of the most common sources posted here and both are Gannett papers.

The Detroit News has two website domains.
detroitnews.com
detnews.com

The Lansing State Journal has three.
lansingstatejournal.com
greenandwhite.com
lsj.com

A Battle Creek Enquirer(also Gannett) article in the Campaign News section was posted awhile back.
battlecreekenquirer.com

Outside of press releases, alerts, congressional record and other govt documents, and wire reports, I'm exerpting or summerizing everything from now on to save any future trouble, especially since I don't expect any help from SCOTUS.

117 posted on 04/08/2004 10:17:37 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("...and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take...OUR FREEDOM")
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To: Lester Moore
Thanks, if ww1 era songs come back in vogue I can start booking bands again.
118 posted on 04/08/2004 10:18:21 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Zeppo
That costs money.
119 posted on 04/08/2004 10:18:27 PM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: Mo1
When people at work would spout crap about Bush, Reagan, THe Republican Party, Conservatives etc... I would usually just say "Who are YOU to judge? Huh?"

I always liked it when they'd start sputtering...
120 posted on 04/08/2004 10:18:54 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Jim Robinson
This won't be too bad. Most articles are rehashes (is that a word?) of other articles. If we are digilent in our posting, we can post the new parts and link to other threads. Now, more than ever, it's critical everyone remembers to post the correct title. Is there a way John can add a 'link similar threads' function similar to a keyword function? It also might be prudent to enhance our search function by author, source or topic.
121 posted on 04/08/2004 10:19:03 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: GeronL
I would be surprised if others are allowed to copy these articles. Websites still measure click-throughs as a basis for selling advertising, and lots of news media that post current articles for free charge for archival access.

Free Republic posters who do not excerpt (and I rarely, if ever, have excerpted articles in the past) may be depriving these news media of potential revenue.

Of course, there is another side; I have found many news sources that I regularly visit because I saw their articles posted on FR.
122 posted on 04/08/2004 10:20:21 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: Jim Robinson
Just list the facts or points made by the article one by one and include a reference the source, title, author, date and include a link back to the source and they can't touch us.

And then threaten everyone with death if they click through the link to give them a 'hit.' :-)

123 posted on 04/08/2004 10:20:27 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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Comment #124 Removed by Moderator

To: Jim Robinson
This is the death knell of archived records that we all can access later on to make sure we have our facts straight. Only the media will control the news and the bits and pieces that they can trash us for, when we dispute them and get something a bit wrong.

The 'well informed' populace idea is fast becoming a thing of the past.
125 posted on 04/08/2004 10:20:42 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: JustAmy
LOL... I know Amy,, It was my droll (Not troll) sense of humor.. trying to make light of the loss of one of my main sites for news on the Manure Ponds of StinkyMento

There are still hundreds of sites to go to.. You may need a bigger PO box soon tho at this rate. ;-)
126 posted on 04/08/2004 10:20:49 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi Mac ... Become a FR Monthly Donor ... Kerry thread archive @ /~normsrevenge)
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To: Jim Robinson
Come what may, I'm just one of thousands of FReepers who will stand with you.

The Free Republic is much, much more important than most Americans will ever know, but many of us do indeed already know.

These are still just the early days, and beginnings are tender times.

Illegitimi non carborundum, dear friend.
127 posted on 04/08/2004 10:21:14 PM PDT by Imal (Become a Free Republic Monthly Donor! It's easy, painless and makes the world a better place.)
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To: Nita Nupress; Howlin
Nothing would terrorize the Left more than hundreds or thousands of bored, inquisitive FReepers with nothing to do but LexNex. :-)

Some of us were thinking about that Lexnex ..

128 posted on 04/08/2004 10:21:15 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: jpsb
Or, you could book bands that either:

A. Play originals, or...
B. Play originals, and they agree to pay any perormance fees if they cover tunes (and you have it in writing)
129 posted on 04/08/2004 10:21:38 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Dan from Michigan
I haven't seen the latest two letters yet. I'll get them from Amy tomorrow when she comes to town. She told me over the phone that they were McClatchy (regarding the Sac Bee), and the USA Today. But like the LAT/WP, those two will probably explode out to a couple dozen or more publications. The handwriting is on the wall.
130 posted on 04/08/2004 10:21:40 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: Nita Nupress
"Or we could add some money to the quarterly budget and buy a LexisNexis account and then distribute the password to everyone who pays their dues. (or something similar). FReepers would be able to dig out articles that have been yanked and then post a paragraph or two when it's relevant."

What an interesting idea! That needs to be explored more. Certainly there are many freepers that warrant this. For a fee, I'd be willing. Also, it might be time to start thinking about fees for some services, like freepmail....

131 posted on 04/08/2004 10:22:27 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: JMack
It can be done, assuming you have enough talented folks to pull it off. I think we do.
132 posted on 04/08/2004 10:22:58 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: henderson field
I don't know if their commie's. Most of them support freedom of speech. As long as its freedom of speech that advances and promotes their leftwing, liberal, socialist agenda.

And besides, FreeRepublic is a powerful force for conservatism on the internet. They can't allow FReepers to advance and promote freedom of speech that follows a conservative agenda.

133 posted on 04/08/2004 10:22:58 PM PDT by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY !)
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To: Jim Robinson
Well, they think they can shut us down that way, but they are wrong. And all this all of a sudden in a tough election year.

They can make us excerpt every article, or only post a link, but they can't keep us from discussing current events and posting our opinions.

They think that if we don't post the articles, people won't visit FR as much, but they are wrong about that too.

Life is tough, but we are tougher and we'll do everything we can, even double our efforts to get Bush reelected.

We'll dig up even more stuff about Kerry and Clinton and publicize Bush's successes.

That's what happens when you become successful. The reason they want to shut us down, is because FR is making a difference. You can really be proud of what you created, Jim.

134 posted on 04/08/2004 10:23:25 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Copyright Issues at FreeRepublic

have you seen this?

135 posted on 04/08/2004 10:23:42 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: Nita Nupress; Mo1
Well, I have a CD writer and a great email program. I intend to save ALL the articles AND threads I read that I think I may *need* in the until this election is over.
136 posted on 04/08/2004 10:23:51 PM PDT by Howlin ("NO OVERRIDING EXTERNAL THREATS" -Bill Clinton, 12/2000)
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To: richmwill
I think they are saying that linking is good, but cutting and pasting whole articles is bad. We can continue to link to anything we want to link to.
137 posted on 04/08/2004 10:23:54 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I always liked it when they'd start sputtering...

That's my favorite part too :0)

138 posted on 04/08/2004 10:24:19 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: icwhatudo
"Can an excerpt be something other than the first paragraph? "

I think you can excerpt any part of an article, but it has to be a small excerpt, I think posting half the article and calling it an excerpt would still get us into trouble.
139 posted on 04/08/2004 10:24:51 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: Mo1; Chad Fairbanks
To: Jim Robinson

Chad Fairbanks wrote:
Or, alternativly, as FReepers respond to the posted, excerpted article, they could "quote" the next paragraph in the article, and eventually the whole article is posted anyway, just in bits and pieces.

______________________________________

That's an interesting idea
101 -Mo1-


______________________________________


First proposed back in '98 when the WP/LA Times lawsuit first hit..

Naturally, -- as the owner, JR cannot even hint that we individuals can play this sort of game.

But if we all did it, would we all be banned? -- Or more to the point, could we all be sued?



140 posted on 04/08/2004 10:25:15 PM PDT by tpaine (In their arrogance, a few infinitely shrewd imbeciles attempt to lay down the law for all of us.el)
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To: Jim Robinson
The handwriting is on the wall.

Sorry. That was me. I was doing my Manson impression. Don't worry, though - pregnant actress blood comes out with a little bleach, and an enzyme cleaner...

141 posted on 04/08/2004 10:25:34 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: CyberAnt
Drudge never excerpts because he only links (except for his own articles). We also can continue to link. What we can't do is cut and paste whole articles.
142 posted on 04/08/2004 10:25:40 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: Howlin
Same here .. maybe I should get a bigger hard drive too?
143 posted on 04/08/2004 10:25:49 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: Piranha
Our system will handle it fine. There will always be some publications that don't mind our posting full text so we have to be able to accomodate both. In fact, we have some sites and authors that love to have their stuff posted to FR. We also have sites and authors that get pissed if we DON'T allow their stuff to get posted, LOL.
144 posted on 04/08/2004 10:26:07 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: Tree of Liberty; Chad Fairbanks; Mo1; OXENinFLA; cyborg; lainie
Never heard of it, but it sounds interesting. As does Chad Fairbanks' idea in Post#80, that has crossed my mind also.

Now I shutting down for the night(and this time I mean it ;-)

145 posted on 04/08/2004 10:26:11 PM PDT by StriperSniper (Ernest Strada Fanclub)
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To: DoughtyOne
Not necessarily. Bookmark this:

http://www.archive.org/

It's an internet archive site, and you can find tons of obsolete stuff here.

146 posted on 04/08/2004 10:26:18 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: jpsb
The jukebox is owned by a vendor that supplies stuff like that and it's license does not cover live music or karaoke.

I believe the venue which hosts the coin operated phonograph is required to pay royalties to ASCAP et al. if there are any ASCAP records contained therein and may get pressured by ASCAP to pony up the dough even if there are zero ASCAP records in it (I recall hearing of at least one place that had all non-ASCAP polka music in its juke box but had to go to court to prove it).

147 posted on 04/08/2004 10:27:01 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
There are two big copyright owners, each wanted about 500 bucks per year for 1 band a month and no karakoe (for a bar that had 60 seats or less). That works out to paying an extra 90 bucks per band. Now a little bar loses money on bands to start with so and extra 100 a month to a bunch of blood sucking lawyer is not something we are going to too. Screw it, the juke box makes money, bands don't. I was a easy decision.
148 posted on 04/08/2004 10:27:16 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Zeppo
Oh, it'll be coming out. Those who are doing it will probably be bragging about it. Probably already are.
149 posted on 04/08/2004 10:27:21 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
The "buggy whip factory" bosses are so short-sighted. They are just cutting their own throats, long term. This is the best thing that ever happened for top-flight bloggers, and will accelerate the trend from the dinosaur "legacy media" to the future of free information flow.

Of course in the meantime, it's kind of a pain in the a$$.

150 posted on 04/08/2004 10:27:53 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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