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More copyright complaints
Free Republic | April 8, 2004 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/08/2004 9:19:34 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

As most of you are aware, we've recently received several copyright complaints. In the last few weeks, we've received complaints from the SJ Mercury News, Independent (UK), SF Chronicle and The Boston Globe. Just a couple days ago the Post-Gazette send a cease and desist notice and yesterday I heard from the Tribune-Review.

Tonight, I got a call from Amy and there were two more registered letters at our PO Box. The McClatchy News (Sacramento Bee) and USAToday are now added to the list of publications that have complained about copyright violations.

Well, folks, the handwriting is on the wall. The complaints are now coming in faster than I can respond to them. John is currently in the process of writing programs to search out and automatically excerpt all existing threads from these sources.

I think we're gonna have to go to excerpt and link for all news sources very soon unless we have written permission on file.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stammendment; 2004electionbias; adminlectureseries; bigmedia; bozos; ccrm; complaints; constitution; copyright; copyrightlaw; donotpostlist; excerpt; excerptingarticles; excerpts; fairuse; fr; freerepublic; freerepubliczotted; freespeech; frinthenews; lexicon; mediabias; silencingcritics; zot; zotfreerepublic
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To: Jim Robinson
I was thinking that the other night, after the Pittsburg-Gazette(?) cut off our posting privileges.

A quick rewrite of salient points contained in an article wouldn't be infringing on copyright laws. It would also keep the size of articles down to a bare minimum.

151 posted on 04/08/2004 10:28:02 PM PDT by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY !)
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To: Mo1
Hey, wasn't little tommy dasshole proposing a muffler for all who had those lexnex's?
152 posted on 04/08/2004 10:28:27 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I think club owners have to pay ASCAP and BMI, and beyond that, I never heard of anyone paying anything to anybody.
153 posted on 04/08/2004 10:28:31 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Lashing out" at Democrats since 1990.)
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To: jpsb
Makes sense.
154 posted on 04/08/2004 10:28:50 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: AM2000
Can't use frames. They complain that's a copyright violation. We can open the news source in a new window though.
155 posted on 04/08/2004 10:29:15 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Thank you all very much!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Where's the Western Legal FOundation when we need them most...or Larry Klayman or that group that Pat Robertson got going with a name that is a counterpart to ACLU (I think maybe the ACJL)?

156 posted on 04/08/2004 10:29:27 PM PDT by jnarcus
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To: Indy Pendance
LOL .. I believe you are correct
157 posted on 04/08/2004 10:29:34 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Yeah, they do usually. Most musicians I knew, and/or performed with, could never be organized enough to handle it all themselves ;0)
158 posted on 04/08/2004 10:29:56 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Mo1
Just buy more CDs............LOL.
159 posted on 04/08/2004 10:30:00 PM PDT by Howlin ("NO OVERRIDING EXTERNAL THREATS" -Bill Clinton, 12/2000)
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To: Indy Pendance
Thank you for the link. I'll have to check it out and see what I can find there. I wonder how come they can archive articles when we can't. If there's no good reason, then the papers haven't a leg to stand on demanding Jim not archive.
160 posted on 04/08/2004 10:30:12 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Torie; ambrose; Kuksool
@
161 posted on 04/08/2004 10:30:12 PM PDT by KQQL (@)
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Comment #162 Removed by Moderator

To: Jim Robinson
I would think that most self-respecting writers (whether they write for the NY Times or a weblog) would love to have their articles quoted in full on Free Republic. It probably is the publishers and business offices who are taking issue with the cutting and pasting.

I don't blame them. I used to be a newspaper addict until the Wall Street Journal pointed me to Free Republic after the Space Shuttle disaster. Since then I have let all (but one) of my newspaper subscriptions lapse and I am on Free Republic for hours each day. You are the best, and you are the future of news assimilation.
163 posted on 04/08/2004 10:30:49 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: Jim Robinson
But, they'll kill the links, if they don't want it to exist anymore on the net.

Censoring history.
164 posted on 04/08/2004 10:30:57 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Help bring the end to Freepathons. Donate monthly.)
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To: Reagan Man
And maybe, just maybe, we will then help spur more original content here at FR. That would be cool...
165 posted on 04/08/2004 10:31:08 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Nita Nupress; Jim Robinson
I'm sure someone could write a script that will take any article and translate it into Pig Latin. Then, Freepers can post the un-translated version in subsequent posts.

I can just see the headlines on the day after the November election . . .

Ushbay Niay Ay Andslidelay!!

166 posted on 04/08/2004 10:31:47 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (Alberta -- the TRUE north strong and free.)
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To: Mo1; Howlin
I really, really, really wish someone would pursue that idea. It would take some organization, but I think it could work.

Can you imagine the sleepless nights they would have? Just imagine a huge cadre of conservative sleuths out there tracking down every single "Dick Clarke-like" lie they tell and posting it for all the world to see! Surely there's enough Googler's here who could pay a few bucks a month for access to the most powerful search engine in the world, huh?

Gosh, just THINKING about how unsettled the DU'ers would be gives me goosebumps. LOL!
167 posted on 04/08/2004 10:32:02 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: starboardlist; DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Run the article through an ebonics translator, then post the new text.

Hey Daughter - what yo' ass think a dat?

168 posted on 04/08/2004 10:32:18 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: KQQL
The legal walls are closing in. Only a seasoned site could really survive it. The site had time, and used it effectively, such that even if most articles are truncated, it does not matter much.
169 posted on 04/08/2004 10:32:19 PM PDT by Torie
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To: supercat
What I don't understand is why does the bar have to pay? If anyone is in violation it is the band not the bar? Why don't the lawyers go after the band? Cause, the band dispears into the night but the bar can't so the blood suckers go after the bar even thou the bar didn't do a danm thing wrong.
170 posted on 04/08/2004 10:33:23 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Jim Robinson
I think that an automatic excerpt with a link to the paper would be a sensable way to go.

Then the buzzards will have to find something else to gripe about.

171 posted on 04/08/2004 10:33:44 PM PDT by passionfruit (passionate about my politics, and from the land of fruits and nuts)
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To: Piranha
I would be surprised if others are allowed to copy these articles.

That's what needs to be found out. If these news organizations are restricting everyone on the web, then you're right, it's a revenue matter to them and I can see their point.

On the other hand, if they're only coming after FR and other conservative sites, then it's a political attack.

172 posted on 04/08/2004 10:33:45 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Original content requires intelligent thinking.

Something FreeRepublic has an abundance of and worth the effort.

173 posted on 04/08/2004 10:34:38 PM PDT by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY !)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I is fixin' t' miss yo' ass when when you get banned for trying it. That's what I think. LOL
174 posted on 04/08/2004 10:34:39 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Lashing out" at Democrats since 1990.)
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To: Jim Robinson; JMack; AmericanInTokyo
"It can be done, assuming you have enough talented folks to pull it off. I think we do."

We have a ton of talented FReepers just itching to be part of a new and exciting branch of FR. This isn't the end, this is just the beginning. FR News service is right around the corner, with a staff of volunteer reporters. Heck, we have them now. The poster, AmericanInTokyo, is one that comes to mind. If we set up a special forum for 'frogs' (freeper blogs) and frarticles, this could be the start of something bigger and better for Free Republic! This is a definate win-lose. We win, liberals lose.

175 posted on 04/08/2004 10:35:06 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: FreedomCalls
It smells like an organized campaign.

Yep, I'll bet it is.

176 posted on 04/08/2004 10:35:48 PM PDT by nutmeg (Why vote for Bush? Imagine Commander in Chief John Fin al-Qerry)
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To: Jim Robinson
Jim If you need to raise more funds, I'm in. This sounds very planned and contrary to the fair use doctrine.

Pick a financially weak publication and release the lawyers to reaffirm the established legal principals.

I believe this has everything to do with campaign finance reform and the established media silencing all other voices. It stinks of conspiracy.
177 posted on 04/08/2004 10:35:58 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberalism is a Hate Crime)
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To: Jim Robinson
Save yourself the grief and just go to auto-excerpt.
178 posted on 04/08/2004 10:36:21 PM PDT by ambrose ("I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it" - John F. al-Query)
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To: Howlin
Just buy more CDs............LOL.

I'm gonna have to get more organized for CD's .. I'm just getting my HD organized

179 posted on 04/08/2004 10:36:46 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: Mo1
I'm on a roll! Twice today, TWICE TODAY, my kids told me I WAS RIGHT!!!!!
180 posted on 04/08/2004 10:37:43 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: Jim Robinson
Hmmm ... I wonder what would happen if a freeper who posts an excerpt plus a link to a full article were to ALSO grab a full copy of the article and place it on any web server they have access to (I believe that almost all of us who pay monthly fees to ISPs can upload some maximum number of megabytes to some private space reserved for us on our ISP's servers for purposes of creating our own "home page" or whatever else we want to do with it - right?).

And then along with the excerpt plus the pointer to the original article, we could also post on FR a link saying, "if the pointer to original article becomes obsolete then click here" and provide a link to our saved copy.

That way any readers can first attempt to follow the link to the original site, and only after failing would they go to someone's saved copy. If most of us did this, then you would think that the Media-Powers-That-Be would consider the 1000's of us small potatoes kind of people to be unworthy targets, as opposed to the temptation for them to harrass Big Potato targets like FR itself.

181 posted on 04/08/2004 10:38:18 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
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To: JMack
You mean it would look like this?

“It was time for a change, to bring a new perspective to the channel,” an NBC executive this week reportedly told the New York Times. This “new perspective” will be a new President and General Manager of MSNBC – Richard N. Kaplan.

182 posted on 04/08/2004 10:38:38 PM PDT by Howlin ("NO OVERRIDING EXTERNAL THREATS" -Bill Clinton, 12/2000)
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To: jpsb
What I don't understand is why does the bar have to pay? If anyone is in violation it is the band not the bar? Why don't the lawyers go after the band? Cause, the band dispears into the night but the bar can't so the blood suckers go after the bar even thou the bar didn't do a danm thing wrong.

Because that's the way ASCAP et al. bribed Congress to write the rules. They're not stupid. They understand that if they charged bands to cover other people's tunes, bands wouldn't be able to afford to do so and thus would either write their own music or go out of business. So they write laws to exempt the musicians from paying for music while making the venue owners (the deeper pockets) pay.

183 posted on 04/08/2004 10:38:46 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Jim Robinson
This sounds like a winnable court case but who's got the money to fight them ?
184 posted on 04/08/2004 10:39:08 PM PDT by John Lenin
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To: Jim Robinson
How about a smaller child window without any of the navigational toolbars? That wouldn't be so bad.
185 posted on 04/08/2004 10:39:11 PM PDT by AM2000
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To: Jim Robinson
It seems to me that there is an issue that might take precedence over copyright, namely historical preservation. It's like when you buy a building and then the historical preservation society decides that the building has some historical significance. So, even though you bought the house, and you have rights as a property owner, the historical society prevents you from tearing the building down or even making any changes they don't approve of.

This is analogous to what Free Republic is doing--preserving history. So, even though the publications and the authors of the articles have certain rights, those rights may be superceded by the value of the articles as historical documents.

What do you think?

186 posted on 04/08/2004 10:39:19 PM PDT by giotto
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To: Mo1
Ha! My bookmarks unfold into the next room!
187 posted on 04/08/2004 10:39:34 PM PDT by Howlin ("NO OVERRIDING EXTERNAL THREATS" -Bill Clinton, 12/2000)
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To: Jim Robinson
Sounds like the concerted work of David Boise.

Still, it would help to have a guide on how to write a synopsis of a news story.

Too often, the first paragraph or so is listed at the top of the page, when actually, it is permissible (not to mention a news standard) to glean the pickings from the whole story --- snippets from the breadth of paragraphs.

It would help if you had a guide explaining that with example and illustration.

188 posted on 04/08/2004 10:40:06 PM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Howlin
LOL!!!
189 posted on 04/08/2004 10:40:28 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: GeronL
It will be interesting to see if DU and other websites are allowed to post their articles.

The DU and most other news sites require excerpting of all material. The Liberty ComPost doesn't require excerpting, but I think all of two people in an Arkansas trailer park read that forum.

190 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:09 PM PDT by ambrose ("I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it" - John F. al-Query)
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To: jpsb
Why don't the lawyers go after the band?

I don't imagine you'll find a lot of lawyers interested in suing a Top 40 cover band. Not much money in it, I'm guessing. It's the club that has to pay the fees to BMI and ASCAP, and if I'm not mistaken, that probably covers their canned house music, too.

191 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:16 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Lashing out" at Democrats since 1990.)
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To: jpsb; supercat
Bars pay, and should pay, the annual license fees to ASCAP/BMI because for most bars that feature live entertainment, with cover charge, they more than make up the cost of the minimal license fees in profits from drinks and food sold to patrons who come to see the band.

Personally, it's my opinion that any bar that uses the license fees as an excuse to not host live music or karaoke, becuase they find the cost prohibitive are merely using it as a cop-out in light of more serious financial issues... but, that's just me. ;0)
192 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:16 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I havn't seen my therapist in 5 years. Neither has anyone else ;0))
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To: Howlin
OK then .. it's CD's

I'll have to order a case tomorrow :0)
193 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:39 PM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: Howlin
Gotta log in there.
194 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:47 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Help bring the end to Freepathons. Donate monthly.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Can't use frames. They complain that's a copyright violation.

Nonsense!
195 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:52 PM PDT by John Lenin
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To: Torie
Articles posted on FreeRepublic have always been a basic launching pad for discussion of the issues. If its done right, a quick article summation can contain all the high points, pertinent stats and relevent data necessary to fill any informational void left from limitations imposed by the copyright gestapo.
196 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:55 PM PDT by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY !)
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To: Jim Robinson
Many of us write well and there is a lack of paying work out there.

Perhaps your site could strike out on its own, become more primary-source oriented? "A Free Republic Exclusive!" could become more trustworthy than anything from the Drudge Report.

We have done extremely well at breaking news, and at finding, compiling and relating apparently disparate information together.

You have at your disposal hundreds of talented amateur journalists.


Direct us, oh Master....
197 posted on 04/08/2004 10:41:59 PM PDT by Triple Word Score (Meretriciousness Everywhere.)
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To: DoughtyOne
They might not be right, but FR doesn't have the big bucks to fight a battle to the US supreme court, battling libs along the way. Check that link out, I've found lots of stuff there when researching. It's kind of cumbersome, but, I've always eventually found what I was looking for.

Free Republic is breaking that media glass ceiling the liberals had maintained for decades. Now, they're running scared, and I have to believe this is an orchestrated effort to silence us. What's more scary is if the dems get control of the internet....
198 posted on 04/08/2004 10:42:03 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: supercat
And that tells you it is all about money and not about writing laws that are fair. And the entertainment industry wonders why they are becomming as hated as lawyers.
199 posted on 04/08/2004 10:42:39 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: jpsb
BTW, I wonder what would happen if a venue which didn't want to pay the ASCAP/BMI extortion fees were to hire bands but explicitly require in the bands' contract that the bands not perform any works copyrighted by ASCAP or BMI, with the exception of instrumental performances of the song "Good Morning to All" [a tune published prior to 1922 but which, aside from the conversion of some quarter notes to dotted-eight/sixteenths, is identical to the tune "Happy Birthday to You", to which ASCAP claims copyright].
200 posted on 04/08/2004 10:42:44 PM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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