Several killed in Iraq ambush

Al Jazeera | Friday 09 April 2004, 14:48 Makka Time, 11:48 GMT

[archy]

This is one thread in the fabric of a 1300 year old world war.

It's going to end in Mecca, but only after we lose cities.

It appears we may have already lost at least one.

Survey: 81% of Detroit Muslims want Sharia in Muslim Countries

Ihsan Bagby presents his findings

Here is a pdf of a survey entitled "The Detroit Mosque Study: Muslim Views on Policy and Religion," by Ihsan Bagby of the Institute for Social Policy Understanding, a Muslim group.

On page 37 of the report is this:

Mosque participants were asked, whether they agree or disagree with the statement, "Shari'ah should be the law of the land in Muslim countries?" Shari'ah refers to Islamic law.

Apply Islamic Law in Muslim Lands
Strongly Agree — 59%
Somewhat Agree — 22%
Somewhat Disagree — 8%
Strongly Disagree — 3%
Don't Know — 8%

If accurate, this is extremely disturbing. It means, in effect, that most survey participants oppose democracy in Iraq and elsewhere in the Islamic world, and want to see Sharia oppression of women and non-Muslim dhimmis instituted throughout Muslim lands.

It also raises questions, unanswered by the survey, about what kind of government these survey participants would like ultimately to see in the United States.

Daniel Pipes raises other serious questions about this survey here. Among many other problems, he points out that the survey results are being spun in a misleading way. At FrontPage are numerous links to the sources Pipes cites.

A Detroit-area Islamic organization, the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, released a survey of Detroit Muslims, A Portrait of Detroit Mosques: Muslim Views on Policy, Politics and Religion, on April 6, 2004. Written by Ihsan Bagby, associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky, and conducted in mid-2003, the survey’s key thesis, according to the sponsoring organization itself, is that “The vast majority of Muslim Americans hold ‘moderate’ views on issues of policy, politics and religion.” Bagby also emphasized this point in a newspaper interview: the results, he said, show that “the mosque community is not a place of radicalism.”

Bagby’s study received fair media coverage and some headlines dutifully reflected the official line:

• Detroit Free Press: “Muslims' goals: Be active, be moderate.”

• Detroit News: “Metro Muslims eschew radicalism: Study shows most hold moderate views, want to integrate.”

• Scripps Howard News Service: “Survey Finds Muslims are Moderates.”

In addition, before the study’s release, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the leading militant Islamic organization in the United States, trumpeted the results on its website; and its spokesman, Ibrahim Hooper, lost no time exploiting the alleged results of Bagby’s study. One article describes him pointing “to a new survey of the views of mosque leaders and congregants in Detroit … as an example of the fundamental moderation of U.S. Muslims.”

I don't see 81% supporting Sharia as moderate. Sharia law contains numerous provisions that deny tenets of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Conversion from Islam is punishable by death; non-Muslims are second-class citizens; a woman's testimony is not admissible in her own rape case, and on and on. I document these and more in Islam Unveiled and Onward Muslim Soldiers.

If these Detroit Muslims were truly moderate, they would renounce Sharia.

[MEG33]

I don't think the holiday period should be observed with thugs with grenade and mortar launchers in sight of our helos,tanks or convoys.!

[archy]

Whined the man who promotes genocide as an answer.

Please, no personal attacks. I do not wish to see the elimination of all Arabs, only the muslum cultists who demand the destruction of Christianity and Judaism, and the forced conversion of those in the territories under their control, and the deaths of those who will not so submit.

In the meantime, They've been busy, with your help.

Iraqi Insurgents Say Seize Six Foreigners

Reuters

Friday, April 9, 2004; 10:08 AM

ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi insurgents said they had seized four Italians and two Americans on the western outskirts of Baghdad on Friday.

A Reuters journalist saw two captive foreigners, said by the insurgents to be Italians, in a mosque in a village in the Abu Ghraib district. One was wounded in the shoulder. Both were weeping.

U.S. soldiers in a tank in the area near the village of al-Dhahab al-Abyad said they knew some Americans had been taken hostage, but had no details.

"That's why we are sealing off the road," said one soldier.

Insurgents told Reuters they had captured four Italians traveling in a four-wheel-drive vehicle with weapons in it. They said they had seized the Americans in a separate attack.

They took the journalist to a mosque, surrounded by about 40 fighters with rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles, where they said all the hostages had been taken.

The two foreigners could be seen from a distance, but the fighters did not allow them to be filmed.

[Travis McGee]

It's going to be interesting to see how Americans react to the Trojan Horse Muslims among them, after buses and trains start to explode, and the tracks lead to the mosque.

[MEG33]

Removing a post did not "help" the thugs,archy.Simmer down.We are all in this together.

[archy]

It's going to be interesting to see how Americans react to the Trojan Horse Muslims among them, after buses and trains start to explode, and the tracks lead to the mosque

But Travis, it's a religion of peace. At least, things should be peaceful from their point of view after they've killed all of those of us who actively oppose them.

Any bets that the majority of Californians surrender faster than the French? After all, they've already surrendered their American citizenship to remain in a de facto Mexican territory that's allied with the Jihadists.

[archy]

It's going to be interesting to see how Americans react to the Trojan Horse Muslims among them, after buses and trains start to explode, and the tracks lead to the mosque.

I'll be much happier when I'm at Khankala taking care of such problems personally. At least those who are fighting our murderous enemy there won't be so busy trying to appease them.

[Dog Anchor]

I like him in Crawford. It shows patience and calm. This thing is not out of control. The administration and the military know exactly what they are doing.

Patience is a virtue. It is the brillaint strategy of this administration, time and time again, to give out enough rope to hang themselves.

"A swines life is short and sorry,
pig today, pork tomorry."

[MEG33]

Where and when should we arrest all the muslims in America?

[Travis McGee]

Interesting times, living through macro-history. Not many generations get to experience this.

[MEG33]

I feel that way..but I think there are many who thought war and a occupation is bloodless.The cost is high and it seems many have forgotten. Perhaps they need hand holding.

[Travis McGee]

Play this global chess game ahead a few moves. Our enemy's tactic is to hide among the "moderate" muslim community, using their accepted status as cover and camouflage. Atta was a "moderate muslim" until 9-10-01.

If we start losing buses, trains and planes, and the tracks continue to lead directly through the "moderate muslim" community, then what happens next?

Do we continue to use a "law enforcement model" if the actual bombers blow themselves up, and are unavailable to detain? If we cannot in any way predict which of the "moderate" muslims will be the next to explode on a bus?

Just play the chess game ahead a few moves.

[tet68]

It's going to end in Mecca, but only after we lose cities.

We know this, but others are still 9-10.
And we know this too, even after we lose cities, there will be people who don't believe we should retaliate, that feel that genocide is not an answer.
The Islamist fanatics don't have that problem, genocide IS the answer to the problem of the infidel.

[Dog Anchor]

I have viewed the Iraq invasion all along as an extremely bold and brilliant geopolitical strategy. The risk involved is momentous. If we fail, it will be calmitous but if we succeed it will severely defang terrorism and change Mideast politics for years to come.

I respect this President for his daring and wish for the success of the United States and those nations brave enough to follow our lead.

[archy]

Probably at the point when they've proven more dangerous by murderous acts of terror or espionage against Americans beyond that committed by the Japanese-Americans during the early days of WWII. But I suspect that the government will take halfhearted or ineffectual steps against them, as they did after the first bombing of the World Trade Center, followed by the second attack on 09/11. After all, it might interfere with the business deals of those in the oil industry and their Arab and Mexican OPEC partners.

"A coalition partner must do more than just express sympathy, a coalition partner must perform," Bush said. "That means different things for different nations. Some nations don't want to contribute troops and we understand that. Other nations can contribute intelligence-sharing. ... But all nations, if they want to fight terror, must do something."

"Over time it's going to be important for nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity," he said. "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror."

--George Bush, November 6, 2001

[Travis McGee]

If 9-11 wasn't enough to wake up most of America, I shudder to think of what it will take.

[MEG33]

I've been around since WW2..when there was no neutral American press.I've lived through rationing of tires,gas,sugar,unavailability of beef,no Hershey bars(eyes of a child!)no new cars available,resoled shoes,Victory Bond rallies,neighbor boys all gone to war,working in our big Victory garden,shelling peas and canning to save food and allow our forces to be fed well.Blue stars and Gold stars in the window and as soon as we knew..a day at the church in prayer on DDay.

My husband was in the Navy at the end of Korea and the Vietnam War ended before my son was old enough to be drafted.

My children grew up with nuclear drills and the Cuban missile crises.I have faith that America will prevail.We are spoiled and the left wing propaganda is prevalent ,but there is no Walter Cronkite figure.

I pray we don't succumb to the Kerrytization of our country.

[Eagle Eye]

Interesting times indeed.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Anyone on the street seen with a weapon of any kind will be shot on sight..new orders.

Those orders have been in effect for a while. Our guys have been popping the ringleaders where they can ID them.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Travis McGee]

You and me both.