Lost Your Job Yet?

Computerworld ^ | April 12, 2004 | John Pardon

[sakic]

Doom and gloom talk. Most of my customers who I visit and sell to in the Midwest are increasing IT staff.

In NYC it's not just talk. Companies continue laying off IT people at an alarming rate and it's hard finding jobs. Very hard.

Olympus recently took 800 jobs from Long Island to the Lehigh Valley so that the President of the company could have a shorter drive to work.

[guitfiddlist]

But these things must be taken in context, if you get an attitude you put yourself on the road to defeatism. We are on the way up and those with a go get'em attitude will be there first and prosper the most.

I heartily agree with most of that. But my point is - the tidal wave is upon us. It will not be stopped. There is nothing the government is inclined to do to stop it, nor much it really CAN do. America will have to adjust to a radically reduced standard of living, as our wages equalize with the other very capable workers and industries around the world. I don't like it either.

I find it very instructive to note the various reactions of the passengers and crew of the Titanic after the iceberg collision. Some thought it could never sink, and ponced about accordingly. Some were busy yelling at the captain and the designer. Some holed up in their staterooms and waited for the end. And others were busy getting the lifeboats ready.

[1rudeboy]

It would have been easier to simply mis-spoke. I've done it in the past, with no penalty. But your evasions are child-like, to say the least.

[1rudeboy]

"to simply say you mis-spoke" sorry

[CasearianDaoist]

You cannot win an argument with rudeboy. He is all about ego, it is not even about a particular topic. Do yourself a favor an ignore him. He cannot rationally follow arguments.

[1rudeboy]

Hey. neutrino needs all the help he can get. Help, apparently, that even you with all your rhetorical skill cannot provide.

Asking someone to back-up an assertion that the U.S. primarily exports ag-products and natural resources is "all about ego?" That's like saying you, and your comment, are all about stupid.

[Logic n' Reason]

Well written; well researched.

That which will the Bush presidency to it's untimely demise (read: one term) is just this subject. These are not "mad, angry blue collar workers". These are well-educated, involved, socially responsible, self-sufficient folks capable of communicating their positions with facts and reason to others. They will ultimately cost Mr. Bush enough votes to loose the general election in November.

The question we'd better be asking is: what is Mr. Kerry's position on this? and 2: How does he intend to change it for the better? and 3: will he be able to do it with any more success than had Mr. Bush?

[FightThePower!]

I lost 2 jobs as an energy trader. I am still in the energy business although not as a trader. It has taken my almost a year and a half to get my income back to where it was...

[Dominic Harr]

That should kill any profits...

Hehehe.

The 'flavor of the month' here is now 'Six Sigma'. Yawn. It's the same ole same ole.

There is no 'magic bullet'. This stuff is complicated, and takes talent. Our biz is a talent biz, like the NFL. If I can produce 5 times what one of our Indian developers can at $30 an hour (and I can), am I worth $150 an hour?

[LearnsFromMistakes]

There are bad developers here, and there are bad developers off-shore. Same with analysts, system architects, managers, directors, etc. But for some reason, many of our bad developers ended up in the 'CMM' group. Since they can't design/code, I guess we let them drive our process. There is a process that will never succeed...

[Poohbah]

If I can produce 5 times what one of our Indian developers can at $30 an hour (and I can), am I worth $150 an hour?

I take it you're quoting the loaded rates.

[Dominic Harr]

Since they can't design/code, I guess we let them drive our process.

Personally, I think that those who can't design well and refuse to learn fall back on 'process' as the magic bullet to solve their problems. As if there were such a thing!

There are good developers over there. And bad developers over here. But even the best developer can't work as closely with the client, can't match the finished results to clients needs as well, from 1/2 way around the world. It's a matter of methods.

[ladyjane]

Olympus recently took 800 jobs from Long Island to the Lehigh Valley

Lucky Olympus employees. Lehigh Valley is so much prettier than Long Island. The cost of living it much much lower.

[Dominic Harr]

I take it you're quoting the loaded rates.

I'm quote the rates actually paid by my company's division last year, in fact.

There are 3 'levels' -- $30, $45 and $65 an hour.

For $30 an hour, we get fresh-out-of-college newbies who're more dangerous than they are useful. Then, when those newbies are trained, they up the price. $45 an hour got us people with maybe a year under their belt. We fired them before going the $65/hr route.

They're getting us to pay for training their people, then charging us more than local talent once they're trained. It's a good racket, many US consulting firms did the same thing, for a while there, during the boom. It's a nice scam, if you can find Dilbert PHB's to fall for it.

But it is *not* a good deal for the customer.

[sakic]

Lucky Olympus employees. Lehigh Valley is so much prettier than Long Island. The cost of living it much much lower.

Lucky? I guess you don't know what the word means.

Almost none are going because there was no relocation plan and they couldn't afford to give away their houses. But at least the boss has a short commute and no longer has to pay taxes. Too bad the employees weren't offered no taxes for 10 years also. The new employees won't receive the same salaries either.

Good luck to you. I mean that.

By the way, parts of Long Island are gorgeous but you probably don't know that. Don't bother visiting. We have no desire to see you.

Once again, I hope you get real lucky soon.

[ladyjane]

By the way, parts of Long Island are gorgeous but you probably don't know that. Don't bother visiting. We have no desire to see you.

I hope you get real lucky soon.

In fact I lived on Long Island for years. It was one of the most beautiful places I've ever lived. It's difficult to live there now because the cost of living is so high.(After I moved the taxes on my house went to over 50k a year! ) I don't know why you would say that the employees would have to "give their houses away" when the median price of houses is double that of the Lehigh Valley. If there was one negative about Long Island it was the angry attitude of some of the people who lived there. They were negative about everything. Even an opportunity to move to a beautiful new area with better quality of life and at half the cost of living would be viewed as a negative. Life is not about 'getting lucky' - it's about staying positive and recognizing opportunity when it presents itself.

[techwench]

Let corrupt CEO's prostates fall out

[Info Tech Guy]

The lobbying activities of pro-outsourcing corporations and trade groups is well documented as well as the money trail to politicians who have supported outsourcing and guest worker programs. You obviously failed to read any of the citations found in the original article. A visit to www.itpaa.org and www.outsourcecongress.org would be informative.

[Info Tech Guy]

An H-1b or L-1 visa IT guest worker can provide the same on-site service that an American IT worker can provide. TATA is bringing them in en masse.

[CyberCowboy777]

Same service?

Then we deserve to be outsourced.