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Research: Pig Manure Can Become Crude Oil
Yahoo ^ | 04/13/04 | JIM PAUL

Posted on 04/13/2004 10:24:01 AM PDT by m1-lightning

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To: biblewonk
No, not at all. Neither is newgeezer.

C'mon. We're not the only windpower advocates on FR.







(Are we? ;O)

141 posted on 04/13/2004 1:30:50 PM PDT by newgeezer (...until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.)
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To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!!
142 posted on 04/13/2004 1:31:13 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: snopercod
Uh, that's peak gigawatts.

True

Most of the time, those contraptions just sit there.

False

(The ones that aren't broken, that is.)

Sometimes they need maintenance, just like every other power plant on the planet.

143 posted on 04/13/2004 1:37:45 PM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: newgeezer
LOL! I think there were 2 or 3 more out of 10,000 or so.
144 posted on 04/13/2004 1:39:12 PM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: Grampa Dave
Low flush toilets are a prime example of eco fairy tales that ended up to be real stinkers and messes.

Huh? Happens with your's, too?

145 posted on 04/13/2004 1:43:47 PM PDT by CedarDave (Democrat campaign strategy: Tell a lie often enough today and it becomes truth tomorrow.)
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To: Hodar; SierraWasp
Start by sealing the container, and heating it to ~400 F

Let's see, ignoring the cost of the heating equipment and the ASME pressure vessel, it would take roughly 106 BTUs of heat to heat up a ton of pig shit to 400F and an equal amount to heat up the pressure vessel. It would probably take another million or four to get it up to 600F and hold it there for long enough for the reaction to take place.

So just to heat up 2000# of the mess would cost from $50 to $125 in fuel costs alone. Fuel cost calculator

How much oil did you say a ton of pig shit would make?

(The above analysis ignores the labor costs of the thousands of pig shit shovelers.)

146 posted on 04/13/2004 1:44:47 PM PDT by snopercod (When the people are ready, a master will appear.)
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To: Grampa Dave
Instead of hearing about fairy tales, why don't you go to the website, read independent studies (like this one from U of I) and come see the actual plant currently running in Carthage.

Most of these scams go away because the science isn't there to back it up. But sadly, most of the doubters on this site don't care about "science" or "facts", they just can't imagine that this can be true. Probably the same treatment "electric lights" and "aeroplanes" got during their early days.
147 posted on 04/13/2004 1:45:02 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Techster
I understand this facility and the prototype on the east coast some place was to be about 85% efficient. That would mean 85% of what goes in comes out as a useful/sellable product.

From what I have read, the efficiency is a basis of how much power (fuel) is required to run the process versus how much power (fuel) is produced. Thus, for an 85% efficient plant, this means that 15% of the fuel produced needs to be used by the plant.

As for what percentage of the product is useful/sellable ... that would depend upon the input material. In the case of turkey offal, the waste products are water, fertilizer and various grades of oil.

148 posted on 04/13/2004 1:47:08 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Final Authority
Here's a quick rundown on the Thermal Depolymerzation done at the Turkey Guts into oil program.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/pdf/NaturalGasTechConf2_11_04.pdf

These guys have gone from a pilot plant to a production plant. I just have not seen it expressed enough in various literature to believe it totally yet. But the pig manure thing sounds like an extremely similar project.

The upshot of all of this is turn organic garbage into minerals, water and oil. Any organic garbage. Tires, landfills, paper, animals...anything. The only changes in the process is how long to do the different stages and of course the mix of the output of water, minerals and oil. They were even talking about using this process for circuit boards. Gee, just talking about is exciting. Can you imagine a change in our culture if landfills could efficiently be turned into oil producers? How about sewage treatment plants? Those mounds of millions of tires?

Heck, I'm sounding like a commercial.

By the way, the pilot plant was turning turkey guts into oil for about $15 dollars/barrel and they think that a real production facility could do it for $7, and this oil is blonde and sweet, not black and full of other stuff (but I think that just may be the turkey guts).

Better stop here.

DK
149 posted on 04/13/2004 1:49:41 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Carry_Okie
Are you saying that the class of chemicals produced by TDP are the same brew of paraffins as are found in crude oil?

According to the article published by Discover magazine, and supported by the experts in TDP ... yes; that is exactly what I'm stating.

The article may be found here.

150 posted on 04/13/2004 1:53:22 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: snopercod
How much oil did you say a ton of pig shit would make?

The turkey plant in Carthage produces 500 barrels a day from 200 tons of turkey waste. So that is 2 1/2 barrels per ton. The estimated cost is $15 a barrel, but that isn't the end all be all of the financial side. They also produce tons of high nitrate fertilizer, tons of methane (used by the plant for heating, so cost to purchase fuel for heating would be partially offset) and they reduce the landfill destined waste by a large percent (80% or more) saving transport and storage fees for the turkey plant.

151 posted on 04/13/2004 1:55:58 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: BOBTHENAILER; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; Hodar
If you do a little research on the board of Changing World Technologies, the people behind TDP, you see a cross section of the American power elite. An ex CIA director, some ex-State Department types, Merrill-Lynch directors, etc. These are most definitely not some kids in a garage.

Powerful, serious people with the clout to get in on the ground floor of a good thing and with the muscle to run interference. No, this isn't a scam.
152 posted on 04/13/2004 2:00:23 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Your b$ quota has just been filled for the day and probably the week.

When valid alternative energy sources are out there, we investors will beat a path to the doors. Hell, I might camp on the doors to buy some stock.

Snooper Cod has used the hard nosed engineer's audit of the Pig $hit Energy $ham:

"To: Hodar; SierraWasp

Start by sealing the container, and heating it to ~400 F

Let's see, ignoring the cost of the heating equipment and the ASME pressure vessel, it would take roughly 106 BTUs of heat to heat up a ton of pig shit to 400F and an equal amount to heat up the pressure vessel. It would probably take another million or four to get it up to 600F and hold it there for long enough for the reaction to take place.

So just to heat up 2000# of the mess would cost from $50 to $125 in fuel costs alone. Fuel cost calculator

How much oil did you say a ton of pig shit would make?

(The above analysis ignores the labor costs of the thousands of pig shit shovelers.)


146 posted on 04/13/2004 1:44:47 PM PDT by snopercod (When the people are ready, a master will appear.)
153 posted on 04/13/2004 2:00:24 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (America can't afford a 9/10 John F'onda al Querry after 9/11.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Just in case someone making this calculation doesn't know, an oil barrel is 42 gallons, not the 55 gallons typically thought of as being in an oil drum.
154 posted on 04/13/2004 2:01:31 PM PDT by CedarDave (Democrat campaign strategy: Tell a lie often enough today and it becomes truth tomorrow.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
most of the doubters on this site don't care about "science" or "facts"

I'm an engineer and former building contractor, and DO care about science and facts. What's more - unlike many of the alternative energy advocates here - I have actually tried some of these fairy-tale schemes back in my Mother Earth News days.

The fact is that most of them are uneconomical outside of any government-funded laboratory setting. When you start adding in equipment costs, property taxes, interest, permits, maintenance costs, repairs, etc... like those of us in the real world have to do, most of them just aren't worth it.

(I do advocate solar hot water if the climate is right, you have permanent solar access, and if you can build and maintain the system yourself.)

155 posted on 04/13/2004 2:01:38 PM PDT by snopercod (When the people are ready, a master will appear.)
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To: snopercod
OK, for the sake of argument, let's say your figures are accurate. The container loses 10 MBTU due to poor insulation, the 2000 lbs of pig waste requires 10 MegaBTU plus 4 MegBTU to hold the temp.

This is true for the FIRST batch. The second batch will require far less; for the super-heated water is used to pre-heat the next batch.

I cannot speak as to the efficiency of hog waste .... but quoting from the article on TDP it is 85% efficient for complex mixtures of turkey offal. That is to say, for 100 BTU of fuel produced, 15 BTU of energy is required to run the process. Link may be found here.

156 posted on 04/13/2004 2:04:21 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Grampa Dave
I think I responded to him. But as usual, you would rather go with what you "feel to be true" rather than read the material presented.

You say, I don't believe it!

I say, ok, please read the material.

You say, I don't believe it!

What else can I say. If you won't read the material, there is nothing I or anyone else can do to convince you. You won't read the studies, you won't listen to those trained in the field, you won't believe it simply because you won't believe it.

Have a great day! I'm sure you will, after all, I'm told ignorance is bliss.
157 posted on 04/13/2004 2:05:22 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: snopercod
The fact is that most of them are uneconomical outside of any government-funded laboratory setting.

Ummm, materials cost is zero. Thus, any costs incurred are due to equipment, manpower and process expenses. With a zero materials cost, the feasability becomes much greater. I would encourage you to take a look at the link I provided.

158 posted on 04/13/2004 2:06:32 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Sam the Sham; Liz; BOBTHENAILER; SierraWasp; CedarDave
Your posting name and this reply bring a real big smile to my face.

You noted: "the people behind TDP, you see a cross section of the American power elite. An ex CIA director, some ex-State Department types, Merrill-Lynch directors, etc. These are most definitely not some kids in a garage.

"Powerful, serious people with the clout to get in on the ground floor of a good thing and with the muscle to run interference. No, this isn't a scam."

As Liz knows, one of my requirements re investing in a company or mutual fund is to totally avoid left wing lunatic controlled companies. How many of these power people are card carrying rats, rat donors and rat voters? If GW is reelected their fairy tales/scams will not come true.

God forbid if Kerry gets elected, I may have to start investing in companies controlled by lunatic lefties. They love to get really creative with their books and their auditing companies. You have to buy quick and sell before the bubble of reality bursts with these companies.

159 posted on 04/13/2004 2:09:08 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (America can't afford a 9/10 John F'onda al Querry after 9/11.)
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To: Rebelbase
The irony of the possibility of destroying Islam's economy by using the feces of one of its most reviled animals is outstanding.

If this comes to pass, I shall bust a gut laughing! And send out many a taunting e-mail to the Saudi embassy!

160 posted on 04/13/2004 2:09:31 PM PDT by Mackey (I fervently hope that OPEC is going to the hogs :))
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