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Research: Pig Manure Can Become Crude Oil
Yahoo ^ | 04/13/04 | JIM PAUL

Posted on 04/13/2004 10:24:01 AM PDT by m1-lightning

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To: m1-lightning
It's the first thing that came to mind when I read the headline. Course, the PETA crowd will have fits about it too. Nuttin like irritating the er, crap outta all of the right people.
51 posted on 04/13/2004 10:59:18 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Gulf War One
ROTFLOL
52 posted on 04/13/2004 10:59:46 AM PDT by Libertina
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To: ServesURight
Have you ever seen the big windmills that are about 60-80 meters in diameter? You seem to be behind the times a little.
53 posted on 04/13/2004 11:00:17 AM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: SierraWasp
Hey, don't you work for Enron?
54 posted on 04/13/2004 11:00:38 AM PDT by m1-lightning (God, Guns, and Country!)
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To: SoothingDave
You trying to slow the earth's rotation down? ;-)

They actually blamed windmills on a drought in India and got people thinking they were changing the weather.

55 posted on 04/13/2004 11:01:08 AM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: Dark Knight
Do you have a citation on the study or report that you refer to. From a cursory position this sounds too efficient unless I am missing something. It would seem to me that using the methane directly would be more efficient. How much additional organic material is converted to fuel after the process of methane production? Can methane production be enhanced? Interesting, nevertheless.
56 posted on 04/13/2004 11:04:54 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Ditto
Now this WILL strong-arm OPEC, especially if put into wide use. Monopolies and cartels despise nothing more than they abhor competition. So we should expedite this research--and open ANWR to oil drilling. Good news on the oil-drilling front also comes from Tennessee and Oklahoma.
57 posted on 04/13/2004 11:05:43 AM PDT by dufekin (Eliminate genocidal terrorist military dictator Kim Jong Il ASAP)
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To: Hodar
We can drive our gas guzzling cars, make our own crude at $10/barrel and tell the Arabs to eat sand. This will be the collapse of everything they have known. Bwwaaaa-haaaa-haaaaa

Agreed. Isn't the idea of telling the Arabs to stick their oil where the sun don't shine a delicious thought? Puts a smile right on my face every time I think about it....

LQ

58 posted on 04/13/2004 11:07:45 AM PDT by LizardQueen
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To: djf
Changing World Techologies had a really good article published in Discover magazine a while back. My previous posts linked to that article.

The process is also known as Thermal De-polymerization, which uses heat and pressure to do to organtics as mother nature does; but instead of taking millions of years, it takes a few hours.

You can get various weights of oil from just about anything. For example, burn PVC and you get some known cancerous agents. But use TDP, and you get light crude, hydrochloric acid (usefull industrial grade product) and some water. Tires will produce heavy crude. Just about anything living, creates hydrocarbons (plants or animals), which can be used as well as reclaiming some wastes.

Just from using this process to eliminate Beef, chicken, pork and lamb offal; we can replace over 80% of our foreign energy needs. Plus, the claim is that we can make this stuff at a cost of about $10-15/barrel; as opposed to buying it at $30. So, cheap gasoline may be on it's way back.
59 posted on 04/13/2004 11:07:59 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: 50sDad
The only limiting factors, are Greenpeace complaints that they shred birds, and the fact you can't build them within site of land owned by the Kennedys or other "Limousine Liberals".

Greenpeace is very pro windpower. Don't take that the wrong way though, windpower is still a good thing inspite of some of the people who like them. Kennedy makes me sick for a lot of reasons not the least of which is his hypocracy in renewable energy. The windmills they want to build would be miles away from his pretty little view and would produce a 1000 gwhr/yr of power. It would be the first step in offshore windpower in the USA and for GE's new windmill the 3.6 mw unit with 104 meter blades. Kennedy just sucks.

60 posted on 04/13/2004 11:08:48 AM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: m1-lightning
If they could perfect this, I'd be happier that a pig in...well, you know.
61 posted on 04/13/2004 11:10:05 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (Challenged.)
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To: Final Authority
Go to their website and see the data. Trust me, if they were not truly able to do this, they would not be running a plant right at this moment commercially.

This isn't 100% effecient or even 90%, but it's enough that this will be profitable one day and will solve a lot of storage and removal expense from these animal processing plants. People seem to get it in their heads that this is just about the energy the plants can produce. It's also about landfill issues, waste storage and transport issues, and quality of life issues for those with these animal processing plants in their communities.

Carthage, MO expects to have half of their city power generated from this plant within a few years, and the turkey plant will save a ton of money not having to store or ship the waste products.
62 posted on 04/13/2004 11:10:59 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: m1-lightning
Pig Manure? We have a mother load in DC!!
63 posted on 04/13/2004 11:19:42 AM PDT by caisson71
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To: LizardQueen
Reminds me of one of the Mad Max/Road Warrior movies where there was a scene of pig manure being stirred as the gas from it was used to heat the living quarters compound.

Mad Max beyond Thunderdome. A place caled "Bartertown" gets its engery from pig manure. The ongoing power struggle pits Aunty Entity (Tina Turner), who founded the town, and runs things above ground, against the "two headed entity" of "Master/Blaster", who provides the energy source from pig manure. I got a kick out of brains of Master/Blaster duo, a dwarf, when he calls for an embargo and cuts the power, and refers to himself as "Me big Arab". It's amazing how far being PC has come in the 19 years since that line was used. I doubt they could get by with it in today's world...

64 posted on 04/13/2004 11:22:00 AM PDT by LRS
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To: m1-lightning
Yes the Nantucket issue is very irritating for us windmillers. Those limousine liberals must be a whole different breed of human being. They have gone so far as to print false reports about the developer that said he is an underhanded businessman. They quotes some source which was later discovered to be a fabrication yet they can't find who invented the story. Meanwhile financers of the project pulled support and had to be reconvinced of the business case. Liberals will stoop to any level.
65 posted on 04/13/2004 11:22:16 AM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: m1-lightning
Hmmm, if this were true, the Clintons would be oil barons.
66 posted on 04/13/2004 11:22:45 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: LizardQueen
...Reminds me of one of the Mad Max/Road Warrior movies...

MasterBlaster run Bartertown!

67 posted on 04/13/2004 11:23:35 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: m1-lightning

GROUND ZERO FOR PIG MANURE!
Democrats finally contribute to the nation's energy needs.
68 posted on 04/13/2004 11:26:26 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
"This plant will make 10 tons of gas per day, which will go back into the system to make heat to power the system," he says. "It will make 21,000 gallons of water, which will be clean enough to discharge into a municipal sewage system. Pathological vectors will be completely gone. It will make 11 tons of minerals and 600 barrels of oil, high-quality stuff, the same specs as a number two heating oil." He shakes his head almost as if he can't believe it. "It's amazing. The Environmental Protection Agency doesn't even consider us waste handlers. We are actually manufacturers—that's what our permit says. This process changes the whole industrial equation. Waste goes from a cost to a profit."

From an article, "Anything Into Oil" about the process; thermal depolymerization process, or TDP. Looks like it may be more efficient than other energy producing industries.

69 posted on 04/13/2004 11:26:53 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Interesting. Oil made from pig manure....Could we use this to heat homes and fuel cars in the Middle Eastern countries?
70 posted on 04/13/2004 11:27:20 AM PDT by hresources
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To: m1-lightning
I like the part about the asphalt. It will keep Muslims off the roads.
71 posted on 04/13/2004 11:27:30 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: dufekin
Now this WILL strong-arm OPEC...

I don't know about that. I'm sure we have a lot of pig s*** in this country, but I doubt it is enough to put a dent in the amount of oil we import --- unless of course we can get drilling rights to Teddy Kennedy's septic system. ;~))

72 posted on 04/13/2004 11:28:47 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Warren
Many places. Your point?
73 posted on 04/13/2004 11:29:02 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Hodar
"Believe, or disbelieve .... "

You are obviously oblivious to the obvious in your "belief system!" It's one thing to join the scofflaw liberals, but it's quite another to jump to dreamy conclusions with the scofflaws of the laws of nature!!!

74 posted on 04/13/2004 11:32:04 AM PDT by SierraWasp (John Fallujah Kerry! Now we REALLY know what HE meant, by "Bring... It... On!!!" He sure DID!!!)
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To: m1-lightning
A University of Illinois research team is working on turning pig manure into a form of crude oil that could be refined to heat homes or generate electricity.

All well and good, but who's going to follow Michael Moore around all day with a bucket and a pooper-scooper? Hmmm?
75 posted on 04/13/2004 11:33:56 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (So you're a feminist - isn't that cute!)
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To: Hodar
Oops! Didn't see your link to the Discover Magazine article. Our #2 son brought it home from college last summer. What a fascinating concept! Looks like it can't lose, unless the environmentalists are allowed to muck it up! Don't see how they could, but they'll try mightily, I'm sure!
76 posted on 04/13/2004 11:34:23 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Ditto
Methane production from manure has been used for a very long time. A typical use is to heat dairy barns in winter. It's quite effective and uses very simple technology.

Larger-scale plants exist that operate on sewage, and are part of the sewage treatment facility.

While hog manure is probably not in large enough supply to generate a huge amount of gas and oil, consider human sewage...essentially the same thing. If every sewer plant in the country were generating usable methane for fuel and oil from our human sewage, we'd be talking about a large operation with large output.

This is not bogus technology, and it's not liberal technology. It's just technology.
77 posted on 04/13/2004 11:34:58 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: SierraWasp
It doesn't break the laws of nature, and I'm not sure why people keep claiming that it claims to break the laws of nature. It's not getting more energy than it takes in. But neither does refining raw crude pumped from the ground.

This isn't hippy-flower-powered-good-vibrations-energy-creation, this is a very inventive use of physics to reduce carbon based waste into usable fuel in a few hours rather than let nature do it over thousands and millions of years in a landfill.
78 posted on 04/13/2004 11:36:49 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
We consume about 1.3 million tons of oil per day in the USA. Although I think that conversion of waste is a good idea does anyone have any idea how much organic waste will have to be converted to establish a distributive market for the product of such waste?
79 posted on 04/13/2004 11:36:58 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: LizardQueen
"Reminds me of one of the Mad Max/Road Warrior movies where there was a scene of pig manure being stirred as the gas from it was used to heat the living quarters compound. "

Yeah. Didn't think of that till you mentioned it. It was Thunder Dome.
80 posted on 04/13/2004 11:37:38 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: m1-lightning
Old news.

Posted on FR in September of '03.

81 posted on 04/13/2004 11:40:06 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Rainbows are pretty. I don't know why I shoot at them.)
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To: Lee'sGhost
How about this technology.
Car that runs on cooking oil and soybeans

http://www.burkeoil.com/enviro.htm

Did you know that some of the diesel trucks, cars and buses driving around your town are running on alternate fuels instead of diesel fuel? It's cleaner, it's available today, and best of all – it's affordable.

While Detroit offers several variations of new Alternative Fuel Vehicles (AFV) that average over 50 miles to the gallon, independent fuel marketers are introducing “Biodiesel,” a healthier, renewable energy solution that seems to be meeting just about everyone’s approval.

Dennis K. Burke, Inc. is excited to announce that our Burke Gas Station on Beacham Street in Chelsea is the first station in the state of Massachusetts to offer biodiesel products – Biodiesel B20 at the pump and Biodiesel B100 in drums and pails.

Biodiesel is a clean, diesel fuel substitute made from soybeans, canola, and recycled cooking oil from restaurants. It can be burned safely in any standard, unmodified diesel engine, either in pure form (B100) or in a 20% blend (B20) with 80% petroleum diesel. Most truck manufacturers recommend using B20 in their engines.

Pure biodiesel is completely biodegradable, and poses minimal concerns to soil and water contamination. Biodiesel is also non-toxic to plants, animals and humans.

On the performance side, biodiesel’s higher cetane rating results in excellent engine performance and fuel economy. Biodiesel has outstanding lubricity characteristics. Blend ratios as low as 1% can provide up to 30% more lubricity over convent and best of all – it's affordable.

While Detroit offers several variations of new Alternative Fuel Vehicles (AFV) that average over 50 miles to the gallon, independent fuel marketers are introducing “Biodiesel,” a healthier, renewable energy solution that seems to be meeting just about everyone’s approval.

Dennis K. Burke, Inc. is excited to announce that our Burke Gas Station on Beacham Street in Chelsea is the first station in the state of Massachusetts to offer biodiesel products – Biodiesel B20 at the pump and Biodiesel B100 in drums and pails.

Biodiesel is a clean, diesel fuel substitute made from soybeans, canola, and recycled cooking oil from restaurants. It can be burned safely in any standard, unmodified diesel engine, either in pure form (B100) or in a 20% blend (B20) with 80% petroleum diesel. Most truck manufacturers recommend using B20 in their engines.

Pure biodiesel is completely biodegradable, and poses minimal concerns to soil and water contamination. Biodiesel is also non-toxic to plants, animals and humans.

On the performance side, biodiesel’s higher cetane rating results in excellent engine performance and fuel economy. Biodiesel has outstanding lubricity characteristics. Blend ratios as low as 1% can provide up to 30% more lubricity over conventional diesel fuel. And a higher flash point means it's safer to handle.

Now, before you say “Well it's about time,” the concept of using vegetable oil-based fuel dates back to 1895 when Dr. Rudolf Diesel developed the first compression-ignition engine specifically to run on vegetable oil.

Biodiesel is registered with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a fuel and fuel additive and meets clean diesel standards established by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). B100 is a recognized alternative fuel by the Department of Energy (DOE) and the United States Department of Transportation (USDOT).

The EPA is also allowing federally mandated fleets the option to operate an existing diesel vehicle on blends of biodiesel in lieu of purchasing a new alternate fuel vehicle.

Local communities share the health benefits too – particularly decreased smoke and pollutants from buses and town vehicles as more and more fleets switch to the alternative fuel. Biodiesel has been thoroughly tested in urban bus applications by the U.S. Department of Energy and the U.S. Department of Transportation. Biodiesel is the only alternative fuel that can be used in urban buses without incurring large capital expenditures.

As one of New England's largest suppliers of diesel fuel, gasoline and motor oil prodional diesel fuel. And a higher flash point means it's safer to handle.

Now, before you say “Well it's about time,” the concept of using vegetable oil-based fuel dates back to 1895 when Dr. Rudolf Diesel developed the first compression-ignition engine specifically to run on vegetable oil.

Biodiesel is registered with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a fuel and fuel additive and meets clean diesel standards established by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). B100 is a recognized alternative fuel by the Department of Energy (DOE) and the United States Department of Transportation (USDOT).

The EPA is also allowing federally mandated fleets the option to operate an existing diesel vehicle on blends of biodiesel in lieu of purchasing a new alternate fuel vehicle.

Local communities share the health benefits too – particularly decreased smoke and pollutants from buses and town vehicles as more and more fleets switch to the alternative fuel. Biodiesel has been thoroughly tested in urban bus applications by the U.S. Department of Energy and the U.S. Department of Transportation. Biodiesel is the only alternative fuel that can be used in urban buses without incurring large capital expenditures.

As one of New England's largest suppliers of diesel fuel, gasoline and motor oil products, Dennis K. Burke is proud to be first in bringing biodiesel to Massachusetts.

82 posted on 04/13/2004 11:41:46 AM PDT by Adam36
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To: m1-lightning
Since pig farming is politically incorrect, I'd say this has a chance of working.
83 posted on 04/13/2004 11:45:07 AM PDT by Rippin
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To: Final Authority
An operating plant based on the CWT-TP process has been constructed in Carthage, MO next to a turkey-processing slaughterhouse. The CWT-TP facility processes approximately 200 t/d of turkey offal and grease continuously, 7 days a week. Included in the feedstock are the offal, bones, heads, feet, blood and feathers from the turkeys. The plant produces about 500 bbl/d of API 40+ oil together with about 7 t/d of carbon, 8 t/d of mineral fertilizer, 12 t/d of a nitrogen-rich fertilizer, and a medium Btu gas that is used internally.

Looks like the plant in Carthage running at full capacity (200 tons a day of turkey waste products) can produce 500 barrels a day of light crude in addition to the solids and methane. Not an amazing amount, but imagine every poultry factory, slaughterhouse, and pig and dairy farm with a similar factory. All that waste being reduced dramatically and all the oil being produced consistantly. Will Saudi Arabia be broke in 5 years? No. But we may see a dramatic decline in imported oil with 10 years or so.

84 posted on 04/13/2004 11:49:05 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: m1-lightning; Grampa Dave; Dog Gone; Carry_Okie; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert357; BOBTHENAILER
"Hey, don't you work for Enron?"

No more than you work for "Mutha Earth News!"

What's with your quotin John "Fallujah" Kerry?

Did you watch "Water World" too many times?

I'm sorry, but all you alternative energy dreamers are gonna end up just as disappointed as the William Miller crowd that Christ didn't return on schedule in 1844!!!

85 posted on 04/13/2004 11:53:57 AM PDT by SierraWasp (John Fallujah Kerry! Now we REALLY know what HE meant, by "Bring... It... On!!!" He sure DID!!!)
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To: Hodar; Anitius Severinus Boethius
I went to the Board of Directors and I see that John Riordan is listed. From his Resume:

John F. Riordan is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Gas Technology Institute (GTI), which was created in April 2000 with the merger of Institute of Gas Technology (IGT) and Gas Research Institute (GRI). With more than 40 years of experience in the natural gas and chemicals industries, Mr. Riordan has served as President and CEO of MidCon Corp.; as Chairman of the Board, President and CEO of Natural Gas Pipeline Company of America: and as a member of the board of Occidental Petroleum Corporation....

I served in an advisory capacity to GRI/GTI from 1989 through 2001 and met many times with their researchers. I have great respect for that organization, and for John to lend his name and expertise to this emerging technology and this small company says volumes about what they are doing. We may indeed be on our way to marginalizing the Arabs, though not for 20 years or more.

86 posted on 04/13/2004 11:58:36 AM PDT by CedarDave (Democrat campaign strategy: Tell a lie often enough today and it becomes truth tomorrow.)
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To: m1-lightning
Research: Pig Manure Can Become Crude Oil

Islamic automakers throughout the world have declared a fatwa against this researcher. ALLAH AKBAR!

87 posted on 04/13/2004 12:00:58 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown (I miss ya harpseal))
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I was thinking of calling it mecca-oil.
88 posted on 04/13/2004 12:01:58 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: SuziQ
From an article, "Anything Into Oil" about the process; thermal depolymerization process, or TDP. Looks like it may be more efficient than other energy producing industries.


//////////////////

Unlike other solid-to-liquid-fuel processes such as cornstarch into ethanol, this one will accept almost any carbon-based feedstock. If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water. While no one plans to put people into a thermal depolymerization machine, an intimate human creation could become a prime feedstock. "There is no reason why we can't turn sewage, including human excrement, into a glorious oil," says engineer Terry Adams, a project consultant. So the city of Philadelphia is in discussion with Changing World Technologies to begin doing exactly that.
"The potential is unbelievable," says Michael Roberts, a senior chemical engineer for the Gas Technology Institute, an energy research group. "You're not only cleaning up waste; you're talking about distributed generation of oil all over the world."
/////////////////////

the second implication is just as awsome as the first one--because it will impact money flows and immigrant flows around the globe. How does that work. Concentrates wealth and in the hands of a few players and sucks money disproportionately out of poorer countries. Its a regressive tax. As a result oil decapitalizes countries that don't have oil and even with those countries who do have oil--the wealth tends to be concentrated in the hands of few. If oil creation can be decentralized as much as this technology promises then money/capital will tend to flow back to underfunded areas of the world. With more money comes more opportunities and there will be less demand to move from third world countries.
89 posted on 04/13/2004 12:03:52 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: SierraWasp
What's with your quotin John "Fallujah" Kerry?

NIMBY

Did you watch "Water World" too many times?

Water World sucked.

I'm sorry, but all you alternative energy dreamers are gonna end up just as disappointed as the William Miller crowd that Christ didn't return on schedule in 1844!!!

So you are a prophet?

Help me out here because you are making it difficult. I don't understand why you have such bitterness towards relieving our foreign dependence on oil.

Since you didn't work for Enron, do you work for any other energy companies?

Do you work for a waste management group?

Did you lose your life savings into stock of waste to energy plant?

Have you or are you currently living in Saudi Arabia? - Related to the prince?

Do you oppose drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico?

Don't want one of these plants in your backyard?

Was this originally your idea and someone stole it?

Homer Simpson told you so?

90 posted on 04/13/2004 12:06:06 PM PDT by m1-lightning (God, Guns, and Country!)
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To: 50sDad
It is already at 40 gw installed power and has maintained a 25 percent growth rate for about 10 years. That is doubling every 3 years.

The only limiting factors, are Greenpeace complaints that they shred birds, and the fact you can't build them within site of land owned by the Kennedys or other "Limousine Liberals".

Just think, if the windmills are strategically placed in the path of migratory birds, and a system is devised to capture and process the bird fragments, we could have a dual fuel plant.

Just a thought. ; )

91 posted on 04/13/2004 12:08:24 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: m1-lightning; farmfriend
PINGING Farmfriend. This thread is generating heat very nicely!!
92 posted on 04/13/2004 12:12:31 PM PDT by CedarDave (Democrat campaign strategy: Tell a lie often enough today and it becomes truth tomorrow.)
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To: ckilmer
If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water.
Not to be crude, but I can already see it coming.
"Well, Grandma DID want to be cremated, and we ARE low on gas... Anyone thirsty?"
93 posted on 04/13/2004 12:12:31 PM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: m1-lightning; Cannoneer No. 4
There is irony here...

My thoughts exactly.

Can't wait to tank up some. Then I'll go find a mosque and drive back and forth in front of it so they can get a whiff (being sure to adjust the carb to run real rich). Then I'll let them know they've been breathing pig-poop fumes (camera handy so I can memorialize the looks on their faces).

94 posted on 04/13/2004 12:15:23 PM PDT by PsyOp (War is merely the continuation of policy by other means. - Clauswitz, On War, 1832.)
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To: m1-lightning
Anyone want to alert environmentalist Kennedy to the possibilities? NC hog farmers would be hopeful of shutting Kennedy up with this news.

b. The evening was ended with a speech given by President of the WKA, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Kennedy said he considered the pork business a “truly evil, pirated industry that can only make money by breaking the law.” He told the crowd that North Carolina’s rivers were worse today than they ever have been and that people get brain damage by stepping into the Neuse River. In an interview with an Iowa TV station, Kennedy said, “"Let me tell you, the best thing would be if this industry did leave the country." In closing his speech, Kennedy said he was more fearful of the pork business than he was of Al Queada or foreign enemies.









95 posted on 04/13/2004 12:16:48 PM PDT by mingwah (where is Billy Dale???)
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To: D Rider
I hate windmills (except for small ones for individual farm/ranch generation). The hundreds that are typically put up on mountain tops are a blight on the horizon and do more than their share of bird killing. The eco-nazi's, in their hatred of fossil and nuclear fuels, are oblivious to the downside of this "green" technology.
96 posted on 04/13/2004 12:16:51 PM PDT by CedarDave (Democrat campaign strategy: Tell a lie often enough today and it becomes truth tomorrow.)
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To: MineralMan
If every sewer plant in the country were generating usable methane for fuel and oil from our human sewage, we'd be talking about a large operation with large output.

Actually, it has been used in the past, and quite frankly from an energy standpoint, it's not all that efficient -- at least the way it was done before this new TDP process. The prime example I'm aware of is the Hyperion Wastewater treatment plant in Los Angeles. It has large digesters where the sewage "stews" in bacteria and methane gas is drawn off. The methane is used to fire gas turbines that supply some of the electricity to run the facility. The turbines also exhaust heat which is used to super dry the compost (what's left at the bottom of all the settling ponds). The dried compost is burned in a fluidized bed boiler which is used to produce more electricity to run the plant.

The concept behind the plant, (which was funded by the EPA) was to have a zero discharge facility (no sludge to landfill) and to have it be energy self-sufficient. From what I understand, it never reached either of those goals. The biggest problem was the BTU content of the methane was not only very low, but also highly variable. To keep the gas turbine running at any kind of efficiency, they had to supplement the methane with with natural gas. The same was true with the dried compost --- the BTUs were all over the place.

But it does sound like this TDP process could be a good solution for municipal sewage. Instead of fighting the water, they use it as part of a molecular process as opposed to a physical process.

97 posted on 04/13/2004 12:17:06 PM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: CedarDave
Yours is as good a recommendation as any I could request. Still, I have a question:

Dr. Peter Joseph is one of the country's formost authorities on byproducts of combustion insofar as they affect human respiration. He has a hunch that these "biodiesel" compounds may produce methyl nitrate as a byproduct of combustion. Methyl nitrate is the culprit resulting from combusted MTBE, which abetted an increase in asthma rates of 85% in Philadelphia (much of which was due to bogus ADA claims). What do you know about the byproducts of combustion in the use of refined products from these biodiesel compounds?

98 posted on 04/13/2004 12:17:57 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by politics.)
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To: SierraWasp
but it's quite another to jump to dreamy conclusions with the scofflaws of the laws of nature!!!

What, pray tell, is a violation of the law of nature? In all sincerity, the process of Thermal De-Polymerization is nothing except an acceleration of what mother nature does all by her lonesome. Instead of taking tens of millions of years, we speed it up such that it takes all of a couple hours. There is no law of nature that is threatened, let alone broken.

It's all a matter of time + heat + pressure + components. That's what makes fossil fuels, that's what makes diamonds, and that's what makes a fine beer. We just added the pressure, heat and components and shortened the time. It's the same process.

99 posted on 04/13/2004 12:18:26 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: CedarDave; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
100 posted on 04/13/2004 12:19:12 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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